He didn't really ask that. He asked whether anything would ever be able to change my mind about voting leave. I said the answer is yes, I'd change my mind if Brexit turned out to be permanent disaster. I listed a number of factors that could make me change my mind. I answered his question. Done.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours of my life explaining to Gaf why I voted the way I did. I see you think that makes me a coward and I suspect the implication is that I must be some kind of closet racist. But honestly, the reason I won't do it is because it would be a waste of time. I'm not going to persuade you of anything, so why bother? Let me put it this way. Why should I write a long essay justifying why I voted the way I did? Why does my reasoning matter to you? Is anything I say ever going to change your mind? Are you genuinely curious to hear a point of view and to potentially change your own? In your heart of hearts, do you honestly believe you could ever be persuaded that Britain should leave the EU? Are you willing to concede that you were wrong? And is it possible that I, here and now, will be the person to persuade you of that?
I'm sorry to pre-judge you but I honestly don't think that I'm going to change your mind on this; I honestly don't think anything I ever say will make any meaningful difference to what anyone here thinks. Don't get me wrong - I don't anticipate that anyone here will change my mind either. We've all made up our minds now. But I don't see much value in spending my week off bogged down in an internet argument.
As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of discussion and debate is at least to help us understand the other side, and ideally to change to persuade them to think like us. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people talking to themselves when there just happen to be other people in the room.
This is an overwhelmingly pro-remain forum, and that means I'm heavily outnumbered in these discussions. It's really frustrating and exhausting to try and argue a complex case against a large forum full of people who have pre-determined that you're wrong, and many of whom believe that you're covering for some kind of racism. It's not fun to fight such a lop-sided battle, to get bogged down in misquotes and misinterpretations, and to be totally unable to make headway. It'll be even less fun when a drive-by shitposter inevitably comes along, deliberately misquotes the first line of my essay, and we all spend the next three pages discussing whether I'm a xenophobe or how I have no understanding of xyz or whatever.
I'm not going to stand up and explain why I voted the way I did because it would be a completely fruitless and exhausting uphill battle. Try jumping into an overwhelmingly pro-leave forum and arguing for remain. It's not fun or productive to be so heavily outnumbered. Nobody's going to be persuaded by my views on EMU or the European Neighbourhood Policy or the democratic deficit or whatever. So I'm going to leave it there and enjoy what little remains of my Monday night.
Predictions:
-The UK will never return to the EU. Even in 50 years, replacing the pound (as mandatory for all new members) with a currency union without a fiscal one? That's insanity, and the pound might well be stronger then. You should not have a proper currency union without a fiscal one, it's stupid. And if there were a fiscal union, the EU will be so centralised that its appeal also decreases
-After some initial difficulties, thinks will greatly improve during the 2020's economically.
-Migration levels will only decline somewhat
EU migration will decline but outside EU migration might rise. It's not like we have enough skill workforce to keep the services going.
2020 target doesn't sound realistic at all. That's barely after we would have left the EU, which is likely to be the worst period for us economically as we try to get back into a better shape. Try 2030, though that's just a number. The point is, if it does improve, it's going to take a much longer time than a year or a couple of years.
He didn't really ask that. He asked whether anything would ever be able to change my mind about voting leave. I said the answer is yes, I'd change my mind if Brexit turned out to be permanent disaster. I listed a number of factors that could make me change my mind. I answered his question. Done.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours of my life explaining to Gaf why I voted the way I did. I see you think that makes me a coward and I suspect the implication is that I must be some kind of closet racist. But honestly, the reason I won't do it is because it would be a waste of time. I'm not going to persuade you of anything, so why bother? Let me put it this way. Why should I write a long essay justifying why I voted the way I did? Why does my reasoning matter to you? Is anything I say ever going to change your mind? Are you genuinely curious to hear a point of view and to potentially change your own? In your heart of hearts, do you honestly believe you could ever be persuaded that Britain should leave the EU? Are you willing to concede that you were wrong? And is it possible that I, here and now, will be the person to persuade you of that?
I'm sorry to pre-judge you but I honestly don't think that I'm going to change your mind on this; I honestly don't think anything I ever say will make any meaningful difference to what anyone here thinks. Don't get me wrong - I don't anticipate that anyone here will change my mind either. We've all made up our minds now. But I don't see much value in spending my week off bogged down in an internet argument.
As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of discussion and debate is at least to help us understand the other side, and ideally to change to persuade them to think like us. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people talking to themselves when there just happen to be other people in the room.
This is an overwhelmingly pro-remain forum, and that means I'm heavily outnumbered in these discussions. It's really frustrating and exhausting to try and argue a complex case against a large forum full of people who have pre-determined that you're wrong, and many of whom believe that you're covering for some kind of racism. It's not fun to fight such a lop-sided battle, to get bogged down in misquotes and misinterpretations, and to be totally unable to make headway. It'll be even less fun when a drive-by shitposter inevitably comes along, deliberately misquotes the first line of my essay, and we all spend the next three pages discussing whether I'm a xenophobe or how I have no understanding of xyz or whatever.
I'm not going to stand up and explain why I voted the way I did because it would be a completely fruitless and exhausting uphill battle. Try jumping into an overwhelmingly pro-leave forum and arguing for remain. It's not fun or productive to be so heavily outnumbered. Nobody's going to be persuaded by my views on EMU or the European Neighbourhood Policy or the democratic deficit or whatever. So I'm going to leave it there and enjoy what little remains of my Monday night.
He didn't really ask that. He asked whether anything would ever be able to change my mind about voting leave. I said the answer is yes, I'd change my mind if Brexit turned out to be permanent disaster. I listed a number of factors that could make me change my mind. I answered his question. Done.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours of my life explaining to Gaf why I voted the way I did. I see you think that makes me a coward and I suspect the implication is that I must be some kind of closet racist. But honestly, the reason I won't do it is because it would be a waste of time. I'm not going to persuade you of anything, so why bother? Let me put it this way. Why should I write a long essay justifying why I voted the way I did? Why does my reasoning matter to you? Is anything I say ever going to change your mind? Are you genuinely curious to hear a point of view and to potentially change your own? In your heart of hearts, do you honestly believe you could ever be persuaded that Britain should leave the EU? Are you willing to concede that you were wrong? And is it possible that I, here and now, will be the person to persuade you of that?
I'm sorry to pre-judge you but I honestly don't think that I'm going to change your mind on this; I honestly don't think anything I ever say will make any meaningful difference to what anyone here thinks. Don't get me wrong - I don't anticipate that anyone here will change my mind either. We've all made up our minds now. But I don't see much value in spending my week off bogged down in an internet argument.
As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of discussion and debate is at least to help us understand the other side, and ideally to change to persuade them to think like us. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people talking to themselves when there just happen to be other people in the room.
This is an overwhelmingly pro-remain forum, and that means I'm heavily outnumbered in these discussions. It's really frustrating and exhausting to try and argue a complex case against a large forum full of people who have pre-determined that you're wrong, and many of whom believe that you're covering for some kind of racism. It's not fun to fight such a lop-sided battle, to get bogged down in misquotes and misinterpretations, and to be totally unable to make headway. It'll be even less fun when a drive-by shitposter inevitably comes along, deliberately misquotes the first line of my essay, and we all spend the next three pages discussing whether I'm a xenophobe or how I have no understanding of xyz or whatever.
I'm not going to stand up and explain why I voted the way I did because it would be a completely fruitless and exhausting uphill battle. Try jumping into an overwhelmingly pro-leave forum and arguing for remain. It's not fun or productive to be so heavily outnumbered. Nobody's going to be persuaded by my views on EMU or the European Neighbourhood Policy or the democratic deficit or whatever. So I'm going to leave it there and enjoy what little remains of my Monday night.
I've heard plenty of benefits thrown around, depending on your perspective: regaining of sovereignty, less immigration, disentanglement from an entangling alliance, etc.
Many people are wondering what possible benefit could exist from this situation and when asked not a single person will try and explain to them what they believe the benefit might be. The costs are staggering, looming and obvious but when it comes to the benefits voters saw in leaving no one seems willing to talk about it
What are the odds on who becomes a 3rd world shithole first between the U.K. And the US?
Someone must be taking money on this (real money, so not the pound or dollar for much longer).
What are the odds on who becomes a 3rd world shithole first between the U.K. And the US?
Someone must be taking money on this (real money, so not the pound or dollar for much longer).
I've heard plenty of benefits thrown around, depending on your perspective: regaining of sovereignty, less immigration, disentanglement from an entangling alliance, etc.
The issue I have, as a remain voter who isn't sold on any of those personally, is that the Brexit picture put forward by a lot of people I have chatted with is that somehow all/some of these issues will be 'fixed', and that any costs involved, any possible losses, will be worth it. Or that the economic system by which we live isn't going to change, we're simply putting ourselves in a very awkward position within it. Furthermore, the idea that any cost is fine as long as it's not a total catastrophe seems quite common, and is worrying. 'It's fine, they need us too!'. Of course they do. That doesn't mean it was sensible to do this. Why would it mean that?
There's just so much uncertainty and bullshit I don't see how anyone can be happy except on principle, and even they, when not founded on dubious essentialism et al, are shakey given the economic and diplomatic reality of dealing with self-interested nations and unions. Newsflash: we are never going to be as free or as powerful as you dream. Nor is your boss going to stop being a shit.
What are the odds on who becomes a 3rd world shithole first between the U.K. And the US?
Someone must be taking money on this (real money, so not the pound or dollar for much longer).
I've heard plenty of benefits thrown around, depending on your perspective: regaining of sovereignty, less immigration, disentanglement from an entangling alliance, etc.
I don't think England has thought about us too much, but the Northern Ireland situation is all sorts of fucky. Like Scotland we voted to remain, but we obviously have a very different political setup. DUP campaigned for Brexit, now pretending the country didn't vote to remain, Sinn Fein wanting special dispensation to leave us in the EU.Things are gonna get weird with the border, please don't get weird. I travel down to the Republic on a semi-regular basis, a hard border would be a step back in time.
Pretty interesting Brexit related writeup:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/20/brexit-press-dutch-elections-geert-wilders
Britain produces some of the finest journalism in the world, and reports in the Economist and the Financial Times by Dutch-speaking reporters have been throwing cold water on Nexit alarmism for months. But those publications are interested in the truth, whereas the billionaire-owned Brexit press merely seeks out facts that can be shoehorned into whatever narrative their owner has told them to spin.
Going to get my holiday currency this week as I expect the pound to tank some more when the UK pulls the trigger on the gun it jammed against it's own temple.
Trump is a disaster, but a disaster that will last for 4 or 8 years at most. Climate change aside, he can be recovered from relatively quickly, potentially.
Brexit will ruin things for millions of people for a generation at least.
As much as I want to watch the UK crash and burn this will inevitably lead to more poms immigrating to Australia and we have enough of those already. I can see it in my mind right now , pasty englishmen sipping tea from a thermos on a 35 C day, freaking everybody out.
You obviously have not heard of the supreme court. Both countries are fucked for generations to come.
Umm so yeah.
As much as I want to watch the UK crash and burn this will inevitably lead to more poms immigrating to Australia and we have enough of those already. I can see it in my mind right now , pasty englishmen sipping tea from a thermos on a 35 C day, freaking everybody out.
The irony.Awesome. Bye bye UK (hoping Scotland can get out of this though).
I'm just imaging the outrage if it was any nationality other than the English at the butt of this post.As much as I want to watch the UK crash and burn this will inevitably lead to more poms immigrating to Australia and we have enough of those already. I can see it in my mind right now , pasty englishmen sipping tea from a thermos on a 35 C day, freaking everybody out.
We're both tied for life mate. You have the weather and the beaches, we have an absence of things that can kill us, and proper weather for Christmas (at least in the North).
He didn't really ask that. He asked whether anything would ever be able to change my mind about voting leave. I said the answer is yes, I'd change my mind if Brexit turned out to be permanent disaster. I listed a number of factors that could make me change my mind. I answered his question. Done.
I'm sorry, but I'm not going to spend hours of my life explaining to Gaf why I voted the way I did. I see you think that makes me a coward and I suspect the implication is that I must be some kind of closet racist. But honestly, the reason I won't do it is because it would be a waste of time. I'm not going to persuade you of anything, so why bother? Let me put it this way. Why should I write a long essay justifying why I voted the way I did? Why does my reasoning matter to you? Is anything I say ever going to change your mind? Are you genuinely curious to hear a point of view and to potentially change your own? In your heart of hearts, do you honestly believe you could ever be persuaded that Britain should leave the EU? Are you willing to concede that you were wrong? And is it possible that I, here and now, will be the person to persuade you of that?
I'm sorry to pre-judge you but I honestly don't think that I'm going to change your mind on this; I honestly don't think anything I ever say will make any meaningful difference to what anyone here thinks. Don't get me wrong - I don't anticipate that anyone here will change my mind either. We've all made up our minds now. But I don't see much value in spending my week off bogged down in an internet argument.
As far as I'm concerned, the purpose of discussion and debate is at least to help us understand the other side, and ideally to change to persuade them to think like us. Otherwise it's just a bunch of people talking to themselves when there just happen to be other people in the room.
This is an overwhelmingly pro-remain forum, and that means I'm heavily outnumbered in these discussions. It's really frustrating and exhausting to try and argue a complex case against a large forum full of people who have pre-determined that you're wrong, and many of whom believe that you're covering for some kind of racism. It's not fun to fight such a lop-sided battle, to get bogged down in misquotes and misinterpretations, and to be totally unable to make headway. It'll be even less fun when a drive-by shitposter inevitably comes along, deliberately misquotes the first line of my essay, and we all spend the next three pages discussing whether I'm a xenophobe or how I have no understanding of xyz or whatever.
I'm not going to stand up and explain why I voted the way I did because it would be a completely fruitless and exhausting uphill battle. Try jumping into an overwhelmingly pro-leave forum and arguing for remain. It's not fun or productive to be so heavily outnumbered. Nobody's going to be persuaded by my views on EMU or the European Neighbourhood Policy or the democratic deficit or whatever. So I'm going to leave it there and enjoy what little remains of my Monday night.
The seconds IndyRef won't be until after Brexit, so at least two years away.When is Scotland joining the EU?
It sucks for all you British people, but atleast you don't have Donald Trump running your country.
http://www.politico.eu/article/uk-could-walk-away-without-paying-brexit-bill-ministers-believe/Theresa Mays government will go into Brexit negotiations believing the U.K. could legally walk away from the EU without paying a divorce bill, a Brexit minister signaled Monday.
David Jones, the number two in David Davis Department for Exiting the European Union, backed the findings of a recent report which claimed the U.K. would not be liable for any financial contributions if it left the EU without a deal, during evidence to a committee of MPs Monday.
Meanwhile, a senior Conservative MP risked souring relations with a key EU negotiating partner by urging the government to tactfully remind European officials that the U.K. helped Germany waive half of its war debt in the 1950s.
Bill Cash, chair of the European Scrutiny Committee, said it would be a useful point to make given Germanys extremely dominant role in the European Union and insisted that we really dont owe anything to the European Union.
Where's the kill me now option in the poll?
We were still Sovereign, way more so than most EU nations so nothing was gained. Besides, do you truly trust this government to have free reign? I can't even be bothered to waste my time on the immigration crap since it's just thinly veiled racism and we're breaking an alliance that provided us with huge financial support. Why's that a benefit?
What about your relationship? Will you go with her?Just watch the health services. So many doctors already know they can get better pay, conditions, quality of life, etc abroad, and a qualified British doctor can almost take their pick of other countries. We've got a government that's undermining and dismantling the NHS at every opportunity, and the NHS is going to lose the option of quickly and easily hiring doctors from within the EU.
My girlfriend's a doctor and has a ridiculous number of medical friends who've left for Australia in the last couple of years. Pretty sure she's had her head turned after going out there for a wedding last year.
Just watch the health services. So many doctors already know they can get better pay, conditions, quality of life, etc abroad, and a qualified British doctor can almost take their pick of other countries. We've got a government that's undermining and dismantling the NHS at every opportunity, and the NHS is going to lose the option of quickly and easily hiring doctors from within the EU.
My girlfriend's a doctor and has a ridiculous number of medical friends who've left for Australia in the last couple of years. Pretty sure she's had her head turned after going out there for a wedding last year.
Best of luck, UK. I knew you islanders were right kinky, but it's a bit much to do this BDSM stuff on a national level.
Pretty interesting Brexit related writeup:
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/mar/20/brexit-press-dutch-elections-geert-wilders
Bye Felicia.
I don't think England has thought about us too much, but the Northern Ireland situation is all sorts of fucky. Like Scotland we voted to remain, but we obviously have a very different political setup. DUP campaigned for Brexit, now pretending the country didn't vote to remain, Sinn Fein wanting special dispensation to leave us in the EU.Things are gonna get weird with the border, please don't get weird. I travel down to the Republic on a semi-regular basis, a hard border would be a step back in time.
What about your relationship? Will you go with her?
Better be quick about it. Seems Australia has already had their fill of our disgruntled doctors and are looking are revising the skills list for work visas.
http://www.itv.com/news/2016-11-02/british-doctors-face-australian-work-visa-restrictions/
The irony.
I'm just imaging the outrage if it was any nationality other than the English at the butt of this post.
I'd be willing to bear the stigma of a kink shamer if this would stop the upcoming public exhibition/humiliation play between UK and EU.No kink shaming!
Going to get my holiday currency this week as I expect the pound to tank some more when the UK pulls the trigger on the gun it jammed against it's own temple.
Trump is a disaster, but a disaster that will last for 4 or 8 years at most. Climate change aside, he can be recovered from relatively quickly, potentially.
Brexit will ruin things for millions of people for a generation at least.
Go away the 2nd week in April. Pretty much resigned to getting a bad rate on the Euro - is there a good time to exchange though? Before or after article 50?