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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo
- Thread starter Salvadora
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FTFY
I suppose they love democracy so much that they wanted to vote more than once
http://gawker.com/5864945/putin-clings-to-victory-as-russias-voter-turnout-exceeds-146
To be more precisely it was 146%.
P.S. It is Russian election not Crimea.
The idea behind the nuclear deterrent is to keep any war that breaks out conventional. Russia seems to be aiming for more than just Crimea. If they do indeed push farther I expect Ukraine and Russia to get into a war and then we will have to see.
If Ukraine starts the war, east-ukraine and the people there will support russia, the Pro-Russia protests in Kharkiv and Donetsk are just the beginning.
Maninthemirror
Banned
CNN: preliminary results show 95% of Crimea voters want to join Russia
It won't be that simple, there are a lot of people in the East who prefer trade with Russia, but they don't necessarily want to become a Russian province.
jakonovski
Member
I'm sure they can reach 105% for the glory of Putin!
Well, to be fair, it seems that there are plenty of people in Crimea who are in favor of this decision. Lots of them are attending celebratory events:
source, it's a photographer who works for Novaya Gazeta, the most (and probably only) anti-governmental Russian newspaper and who is generally pretty cool.
I'm sure the plebiscite was rigged in some way, but one wonders what would the results actually be like if it was done properly. The referendum is illegitimate no matter what, but it would be interesting to know what those people actually want and how the things would play out if this debacle with Russian didn't occur in the first place.
source, it's a photographer who works for Novaya Gazeta, the most (and probably only) anti-governmental Russian newspaper and who is generally pretty cool.
I'm sure the plebiscite was rigged in some way, but one wonders what would the results actually be like if it was done properly. The referendum is illegitimate no matter what, but it would be interesting to know what those people actually want and how the things would play out if this debacle with Russian didn't occur in the first place.
Midnight Phoenix
Member
http://fishki.net/1239675-zabroshennyj-jadernyj-bunker-sistemy-perimetr.html
Nuclear weapon you say? This is one of the main shaft of that "Dead hand", that Kiselev referring.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Probably would have been 60/40 or something like that.
I guess Putin doesn't take chances.
I guess Putin doesn't take chances.
See what? Ukraine doesn't have nukes and the west is not going to get involved. If you think Russia's reputation is bad now I can't imagine what it would look after they use nuclear weapons against a non-nuclear state.
Yep said to be a lot of kidnappings occurring. 3 Orthodox Priests who have been very vocal against Russia are missing as are several more journalists.
I mean see what happens. Ukraine has been moving its tanks and other armor to the Eastern Ukraine. If Russia decides to make a move they will come into direct contact with Military forces that have been ordered to fight.
If a fight breaks out I cant see the west staying as neutral
Tallshortman
Member
Well, to be fair, it seems that there are plenty of people in Crimea who are in favor of this decision. Lots of them are attending celebratory events:
source, it's a photographer who works for Novaya Gazeta, the most (and probably only) anti-governmental Russian newspaper and who is generally pretty cool.
I'm sure the plebiscite was rigged in some way, but one wonders what would the results actually be like if it was done properly. The referendum is illegitimate no matter what, but it would be interesting to know what those people actually want and how the things would play out if this debacle with Russian didn't occur in the first place.
There probably is a majority of people who would vote to join Russia but that's not really the point, the point is how this was conducted without the actual consent of the government of the country it's in and under military supervision and coercion. You think if a piece of Texas wanted to vote to join Mexico that everyone would be fine with that?
Treuhand. Look up how DDR was robbed. But now, stop the derails.
This is kinda ironic.
And what would the West do exactly?
Yes it's completely comparable to HIroshima because the generally agreed upon "rules" on the use of nukes already existed since many countries already possessed them. It's not like they were new or anything.
That is false. As recent as polling in 2012 70% of the Population described itself as Ukranian.
Now Russia has people whipped up in such a fury they cant even see straight. A known Neo Nazi comes in and declares himself Governor of Donetsk. He gets arrested and now they demand he be freed because he is their "governor" meanwhile they cry for help because supposedly speaking Russian is grounds for being shot on sight by Nazis.
Yet they actively embrace real Neo Nazis in propaganda induced fear
Mass-extinction of non-combatants was acceptable back in the day? Well that is why I probably wrote kinda ironic.
It's probably not such a huge majority even if there was nothing dodgy going on. A lot of people are apparently boycotting these "illegal" elections, it may not have been hassle free if you weren't pro Russia.
Well, that's not really possible currently. Unless you count the current illegitimate government as legitimate.
And didn't something like that happen in Kosovo as well?
http://gawker.com/5864945/putin-clings-to-victory-as-russias-voter-turnout-exceeds-146
To be more precisely it was 146%.
P.S. It is Russian election not Crimea.
I got something similar. And it's even from the official voting records:
http://online-dienste.bayreuth.de/w...?Gemeinde=4034721330000.html&Stimmbezirk=alle
Wahlbeteiligung = voter participation
Stimmberechtigte = eligible voters
Wähler = actual voters
In this case, I think there is some valid explanation although it looks fishy.
In your case it seems like a television network fuck up.
jakonovski
Member
Polls in the past had secessionists as a minority, probably because it's not guaranteed to make anything better. What's changed is this current atmosphere of manic russophilia and the veiled threat against those who would voice opinions to the contrary.
I'm not sure why you have to say this. I agree with you, I do not support this referendum in any way and I even stated so in my post.
Yes, the firebombings of Berlin, Dresden, Tokyo etc. Dresden alone resulted in the deaths 25-35 thousand in a single attack. A single attack on Tokyo killed at least 4 times that many. That's more than Hiroshima's initial death toll.
As one of the posters earlier pointed out a lot of older people are being promised bigger Russian pensions etc. Funny thing about that though is the Ukrainian "Dollar" is worth almost 5 times what the Russian Ruble is. So even if they suddenly get paid 300 ruble versus 150 Ukrainian "dollars" they will actually have far less buying power
I know. But I thought it is rather a case of USA will get away with everything, and not that it was okay to kill civilians.
But we are derailing^^
Tallshortman
Member
Sorry that was more a general statement after the first sentence. Not directed towards you specifically, more a general hypothetical question.
Resident_UA
Member
Don't believe everything you see...Well, to be fair, it seems that there are plenty of people in Crimea who are in favor of this decision. Lots of them are attending celebratory events:
source, it's a photographer who works for Novaya Gazeta, the most (and probably only) anti-governmental Russian newspaper and who is generally pretty cool.
I'm sure the plebiscite was rigged in some way, but one wonders what would the results actually be like if it was done properly. The referendum is illegitimate no matter what, but it would be interesting to know what those people actually want and how the things would play out if this debacle with Russian didn't occur in the first place.
Another view.
maniac-kun
Member
So the EU is not accepting the result of this vote. Well lets see what they plan to do now.
Sakura
Member
If there was a war over this wouldn't that cause Crimea to be even more against Ukraine? Likely a majority of the people there, because they were subject to propaganda or not, probably think they are participating in a peaceful democratic process to decide their future. If Ukraine tried to take military action because of the results, I think that would just solidify the "fascist" image or whatever they have of the current government there.
Wait for the invasion of Ukraine to be complete and continue "not recognizing" I assume.
Martin Schulz - President of the European Parliament in a live TV debate on austrian television channel: Crimea is a part of russia now - we can do nothing. Yatsenyuk must stop his aggressive rhetoric
This will happen.
Interesting how that keeps happening to you. Why do all these other posters insist on talking to you about all these things that have nothing to do with this thread, I wonder?
Midnight Phoenix
Member
Well, that's not really possible currently. Unless you count the current illegitimate government as legitimate.
And didn't something like that happen in Kosovo as well?
I got something similar. And it's even from the official voting records:
http://online-dienste.bayreuth.de/w...?Gemeinde=4034721330000.html&Stimmbezirk=alle
Wahlbeteiligung = voter participation
Stimmberechtigte = eligible voters
Wähler = actual voters
In this case, I think there is some valid explanation although it looks fishy.In your case it seems like a television network fuck up.
Actually they are, but now it is meme in runet and shows how Russian TV works.
The Crimea is now a part of Russia and we can do nothing? I think it's a fact.
Edit: He is against economic sanctions because it would damage our economy. The sanctions against oligarchs will not work because their money is long gone.
it is not the same as Kuwait and not the same as Kosovo either.
Jack diddly squat
Why? He is right.
What else is the European Union supposed to do? Run and Gun? As soon as the Crimean Parliament is ceasing its work, Crimea will be part of Russia.
Edit: Russia will not falter because of some ineffective sanctions.
BigWeather
Member
That's why they must not be ineffective. Give them some teeth and Russia will falter.
DynamoJack
Banned
Kucinich, who served eight terms in the United States House of Representatives and ran for president as a Democrat and was also against the Afghanistan and Iraq war had this to say about Ukraine:
more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaR1_an9CnQ
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/07/us-foreign-aid-ukraine_n_4914682.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
more
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaR1_an9CnQ
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/07/us-foreign-aid-ukraine_n_4914682.html
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2004/nov/26/ukraine.usa
Soyongdori
Member
Putin strengthened Russia's economy during his previous presidency and made Russia's economy immune to USA's sanctions. They still get deals from China, Korea, and Japan even if EU and USA put sanctions on Russia.
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