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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo

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elite09 said:
Even so, the Russian would not have much trouble in reaching Paris within a matter of weeks. However this is when the russian start to have the same problems that both Hitler and Napoleon had, supply lines. Given NATO air superiority they would become a major weakness and eventually Russian advance would stop and then they just would not be able to mantain the military effort over a long period of time.
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Russia wouldn't get through Poland let alone make it all the way to Paris.
 
Liha said:
Oh boy you know nothing about Hitler.
There was a second election in November where the NSDAP lost 4,2% (from 37,3 in March to 33,1 in November)

For your education, read topics about 4 January 1933.
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Well yeah, but once you have the power it's easy to keep it. Are you that naive? Who's president in Russia now?!
(Very ignorant of you..)
 
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Ukraine._Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

Sister Projects.sister projects: Wikipedia article, data item.
Budapest, 5 December 1994
The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland,
Welcoming the accession of Ukraine to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons as a non-nuclear-weapon State,
Taking into account the commitment of Ukraine to eliminate all nuclear weapons from its territory within a specified period of time,
Noting the changes in the world-wide security situation, including the end of the Cold War, which have brought about conditions for deep reductions in nuclear forces.
Confirm the following:

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the CSCE Final Act, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm, in the case of the Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclear-weapon State Party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a state in association or alliance with a nuclear weapon state.

The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland will consult in the event a situation arises which raises a question concerning these commitments.

This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.
Signed in four copies having equal validity in the English, Russian and Ukrainian languages.
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Basically if they do nothing, then Ukraine will redevelop its nuclear weapons.

However If I was Ukraine, I would never destroy all my nuclear arsenal. I would keep a few stashed away, hidden. I wouldn't count on outside help but I would be glad to have the possibility of it in the future. So my logical move would be to move a few in a secret facility just in case all things turn to shit and destroy the rest.

Does Putin realise that this is a risk?
 
Why is that in every thread about Russia doing something fucked up (I also saw this in the thread about their treatment of LGBT people), we get someone going "how dare you criticize Russia, just look at what the U.S. has done!", as if any imperfections or messed up things on America's part somehow invalidates the wrongdoings of Russia?
 
Twiforce said:
Why is that in every thread about Russia doing something fucked up (I also saw this in the thread about their treatment of LGBT people), we get someone going "how dare you criticize Russia, just look at what the U.S. has done!", as if any imperfections or messed up things on America's part somehow invalidates the wrongdoings of Russia?
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I've seen this same sentiment happen in chinese threads too.
 
I think if it was an ammo dump under attack, it would be quite obvious:

gn1aS07.jpg
 
Protome said:
Hitler was never democratically elected. His party was actually losing votes when he took power.
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I think the key point though is that he was legally appointed as the Chancellor by the elected President, but simply stayed and expanded his power through legal and illegal means, especially after Hindenburg died

So yea, democratically elected is wrong, but democratically appointed is right.
 
So yeah, about that "protecting the freedom of those in Crimea" thing..., not so much:

Masked Gunmen Seize Crimean Investigative Journalism Center

As Russian troops streamed into Crimea, Ukraine, yesterday, masked gunmen broke into and seized the office of the Crimean Center for Investigative Journalism in the region’s capital, Simferopol. The group of about 30 men, dressed in military fatigues, targeted offices housing the Information Press Center, a hub for independent media in the region, and the Crimean investigative center.

After breaking a window and forcing their way through the front door, militia leader Konstantin Knyrik announced that the offices would now house representatives of "The Crimean Front,” because from “this building does not come true information."

"We do not need to escalate this," Knyrik told the journalists, according to the Crimean investigative center’s website. "All employees can come to work. We promise them, if their sponsors refuse to pay the salary, we will find them entrepreneurs. We will try to agree on the correct truthful coverage of events.”
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Uh huh, of course you will.
 
Liha said:
Around 80- 90% in eastern Ukraine have voted for Yanukovych and russia is an important partner and friend. There is also a historical aspect (Kievan Rus).
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I'd just like to point out that the Yanukovich they voted for is the one who negotiated the EU association agreement in the first place, and who had every intention of signing it until Russia started blocking Ukrainian imports essentially telling him to back off "or else." The fact that eastern Ukraine largely voted for Yanukovich doesn't mean that Ukraine shouldn't be allowed to forge closer ties with the EU since Yanukovich very much wanted to do so.
 
I have nothing but respect for the restraint of the Ukraine soldiers. One guy playing rambo (or just being nervous) could give Putin an excuse to invade the whole country
 
Fantastapotamus said:
I have nothing but respect for the restraint of the Ukraine soldiers. One guy playing rambo (or just being nervous) could give Putin an excuse to invade the whole country
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Restraint? Maybe. but pretty sure Ukrainian soldiers are scared shitless and knows if they do anything stupid, the surrounding Russian soldiers will make a target practice out of them. They don't want to be next Georgia, they know this for sure.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
I have nothing but respect for the restraint of the Ukraine soldiers. One guy playing rambo (or just being nervous) could give Putin an excuse to invade the whole country
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It's crazy how Ukraine soldiers can't shoot invading troops in their own country or risk even worst repercussions.
 
Fantastapotamus said:
I have nothing but respect for the restraint of the Ukraine soldiers. One guy playing rambo (or just being nervous) could give Putin an excuse to invade the whole country
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Well its not like they don't know what would happen. I mean we all predicted the same stuff in this thread, the other thread. Most Ukrainians knew that if they chose the EU, Russia would get involved. It's why right after Yanukovych fled, you had the EU and US start talking about respecting territorial integrity and sovereignty. And after Georgia, they probably know that any force would be met with greater force by Russia and justify their "invasion".
 
Casimir said:
Do you even know the relationship between guns and ammunition? Or do you actually think just physically having a gun is all you need to fight a group of well supplied soldiers?
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That post summed up my thoughts in my sleep deprived state much better, thank you.

Still, it was a nice driveby post, haha.
 
The Guardian’s Shaun Walker has been given exclusive access to the inside of a Ukrainian marine base in Feodosia, Crimea, which has been surrounded by Russian troops.

Shaun describes how confusion has descended at times:

Inside the base at Feodosia, word came that the order had come from Kiev that all marines should give up their weapons voluntarily to the Russians.

One of the marines then read on Facebook that the news was apparently fake, and rushed off to inform his superiors who were in negotiations with Russians.

Many of the marines were on the phone to friends at other bases, asking whether they had been forced to give up their weapons.
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.
 
Soyongdori said:
No that's just market overreacting as usual.
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Naaah, I disagree. For example, the ruble is valued less partly because of the perceived increase in risk of holding it.
It's as easy at looking at the situtation a week ago and today, even a small increase in the probability of economic sanctions against Russia should be factored into the price, as anything else should.
 
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