• Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!

Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo

Status
Not open for further replies.
Jexhius said:
What if he just sits there. We gonna force his troops back? I don't think so.

Putin, rightly or wrongly, feels threatened by the advance of pro-Western/EU sentiment right up to his front door.

As for 'acting medieval' it's not really like Russian is alone in pursuing aggressive foreign policy. Although to move into a position that leaves you completely politically isolated is where he differs from, say, America. As a Nuclear superpower he clearly feels like we wont go to war with him over Ukraine.
Click to expand...

I doubt we'd go to war even if he wasn't a nuclear power.

Country is far FAR too large and coming off the Afghan/Iraq wars? Nah, brah. Shit ain't happening
 
Sviatoslav said:
I've just been digging around on the Rada website and can at least confirm that these haven't been made up at least.

The Nazi propaganda one for instance:
http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=49832

You can just search by bill number for the rest.

Edit: shocking that the western media hasn't been reporting this. Conveniently so.
Click to expand...

Yeah, "shocking" indeed. The west has no reason to do anything but coddle the new government since it helps promote an anti-Russian line (NOTE: I am not a fan of Putin in the least. I just also don't want fascists getting any influence over anything, ever.)

Also found this article translated from the Community Party of Ukraine's site. I guess it needs to be taken with salt since it doesn't link to the particular Wikileaks dumps (and the Wikileaks info references old demands by the IMF, not current ones, but none of them seem out of line with what the IMF would want with the new Ukrainian government.)

Cabinet agreed to all the conditions of the IMF

From Communist Party of Ukraine, March 3, 2014:

The newly installed Cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine is ready for implementation of all items in the mandatory program of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to secure a loan. This was announced during a meeting with the European Business Association, said Prime Minister Yatsenyuk, RBC-Ukraine.

"This government will fulfill all the conditions of the International Monetary Fund for the simple reason that we have no other choice," - said Yatsenyuk.

Today it is difficult to find materials that shed light on the basic provisions of the IMF program for Ukraine.

We have to refer to the data released by Wikileaks. According to the correspondence of American diplomats, which was announced on the website WikiLeaks, the decision to grant Ukraine a loan from the International Monetary Fund for a total of $16 billion is dependent on a list of reforms that were originally approved by the U.S., and subsequently submitted to the IMF. Among them in the first place - pension reform.

As the WikiLeaks documents reveal, even under the old regime, a Ukrainian interlocutor for U.S. Ambassador John Tefft had prepared a program of development of Ukrainian reforms and gave it to the United States. Those, in turn, approved and passed the program of the IMF, who insisted on them as a condition for Ukraine receiving the loan.

According to WikiLeaks, this list of reforms demanded of Ukraine includes:

1. Raise the retirement age - two years for men, three for women. Eliminate the right to early retirement including for hazardous enterprises.

2. Eliminate the institution of special retirement benefits, which are allocated to scientists, government officials, managers of state enterprises. Restrict working pensioners. Set retirement age for army officers at 60 years.

3. Raise the price of gas for municipal enterprises by 50%, twice for private consumers. Increase the cost of electricity by 40%. Increase the excise on petrol by 60 euros.

4. Cancel benefits and raise taxes on transportation by 50%. Not to raise the living wage (cost of living), balancing the social situation from this point with subsidies.

5. Privatize all mines and abolish all subsidies. Repeal benefits for municipal utilities, transportation and other things. Cancellation of state support of free meals and textbooks.

6. Limit the practice of simplified taxation. Abolish VAT exemptions in the countryside. Oblige pharmacies and pharmacists to pay VAT.

7. Lift the moratorium on sale of agricultural land. Cancel subsidies to producers of pork and chicken.

8. Reduce the size of ministries to 14. Leave only one vice-premier. Cancel the post of Minister of the Cabinet. Subdue all public authorities ministries. Tax Administration of Customs, the State Property Fund should enter the ministry of finance.

9. Limit excessive salaries of public officials.

10. Unemployment benefits should be assessed only after a minimum period of six months of work. Sick pay at 70% of salary, but not below the subsistence level. Sick pay starting from the third day of illness.

Yatsenyuk stressed that the authorities initiate unpopular decisions that are transforming the social sphere. In addition, the public should prepare for tax hikes.

The IMF mission will arrive in Kiev next week.

Almost every item on the program tightens the noose around the neck of ordinary people.
Click to expand...

Found on tumblr, seems to be translated from here http://www.kpu.ua/nastuplenie-na-so...et-ministrov-soglasilsya-na-vse-usloviya-mvf/

Also the quote about agreeing to IMF demands is definitely true. http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/bu...-to-arrive-in-ukraine-on-tuesday-to-talk-aid/
 
Sviatoslav said:
I've just been digging around on the Rada website and can at least confirm that these haven't been made up at least.

The Nazi propaganda one for instance:
http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=49832

You can just search by bill number for the rest.

Edit: shocking that the western media hasn't been reporting this. Conveniently so.
Click to expand...

Thank you so much for the digging, do you care to do some more? ;) I dont understand shit. Is it an official Ukrainian government site?

Do the banning of the communist party seem to be a real law?

If so my view has changed completely. West has supported the creation of a horrible goverment and Crimeas regional government has all their rights to break free, hopefully all minority heavy regions will follow.
 
fanboi said:
Meanwhile in my Europa Universalis IV game:

D0677E01A293B98609F441F66980D0A439DCEACA


... Crimea taking over the world?!

Who am I kidding, they can't catch a break in games either.
Click to expand...

LOL, I'm actually watching an EU IV LP right now and Crimea has spread from the peninsula all the way to the Pacific.

3jIg3Bh.png
 
Meadows said:
China's UN rep:

- We condem violent acts in Ukraine
- Internal problems must be dealt with
- Protect rights of all people in Ukraine
- Actors must respect Ukraine's territorial integrity
- Political dialogue must be prioritised
- International laws must be adhered to
Click to expand...

really? not backing up Russia? what's going on?
 
Heh, diplomacy is fun. His opening statement is "Ukraine really wants to now what the Russian troops are doing in Crimea". In normalspeak it sounds like Ukraine actually doesn't care that they are there, they just feel it's really impolite that they aren't telling Ukraine what they are doing.

In diplospeak it's GET THE FUCK OFF OUR LAND YOU $!%"(=&!# OR ELSE!!!
 
TacticalFox88 said:
I doubt we'd go to war even if he wasn't a nuclear power.

Country is far FAR too large and coming off the Afghan/Iraq wars? Nah, brah. Shit ain't happening
Click to expand...

So what you're saying is that the US would not intervene if Russia was trying to take over the entire country of Ukraine? I think so, brah.
 
rokkerkory said:
really? not backing up Russia? what's going on?
Click to expand...

China don't normally back Russia either, they don't exactly have amazing relations. The normal Chinese response is to do nothing and say very little; which is why their strong words are relatively surprising.
 
APKmetsfan said:
Model UN > Real UN
Click to expand...

Ha, don't you know it! I got to be North Korea in high school. It was awesome. All I had to do was to beg the other delegates for food, deny I was hungry, occasionally threaten to attack South Korea and deny any accusations of human rights abuses categorically.
 
They should have had Ricki Lake as host... then someone would have just walked in with a parentaltest and said to RU "YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER"
 
Why doesn't the Ukraine government announce the cancellation of the Russian base's contract/presence/whatever? Tell the date is 2017 again.
 
China and Russia have had border disputes for decades, why are people thinking the Chinese would take a pro-Russia stance in this?
 
Crab said:
... Those were big words from China. They're taking an uncharacteristically pro-West line on this.
Click to expand...

China has been pro-west whenever it benefits them the most. I find it laughable how anyone would suggest China would ever be our enemy, they'll always be an ally to us because theres no benefit to being our enemy.
 
fanboi said:
They should have had Ricki Lake as host... then someone would have just walked in with a parentaltest and said to RU "YOU ARE NOT THE FATHER"
Click to expand...

I vote we replace Ban Ki-Moon with Jeremy Kyle.
 
Nivash said:
Ha, don't you know it! I got to be North Korea in high school. It was awesome. All I had to do was to beg the other delegates for food, deny I was hungry, occasionally threaten to attack South Korea and deny any accusations of human rights abuses categorically.
Click to expand...

I got venezeula once. Everything the US proposed was Imperialism
 
Tugatrix said:
they never really get along, they have border disputes since the 60's
Click to expand...
And China recently busted Russia's party in the Central Asian republics by signing treaties regarding the construction of oil and gas pipelines (fully funded by the Chinese), which would supply the two poorer states (Tadjikistan and Kyrgyzstan) with cheap Turkmen oil and gas. Along with the whole "border brides" issue, the steady encroachment of Chinese businesses on Vladivostok's outskirts etc. They're nowhere near friendly and things will get worse in the future.
 
What are they talking about? Are they trying to solve centuries old religious schisms?
Crab said:
Alternatively, neo-colonialism.
Click to expand...

I often just counterproposed striping the US from leading it and made it Non-Aligned lead. Because they'd always pay lip service to the same values
 
Kiraly said:
China and Russia have had border disputes for decades, why are people thinking the Chinese would take a pro-Russia stance in this?
Click to expand...

Well, that depends. Their relationship currently is based on the idea of "We don't like each other, but in certain areas, we're better off standing together, rather than apart." Their military exercises are one area where they have relatively little issues (at least compared to others).

On the issue of Ukraine, this wasn't one where they saw eye-to-eye.
 
alexthekid said:
Thank you so much for the digging, do you care to do some more? ;) I dont understand shit. Is it an official Ukrainian government site?

Do the banning of the communist party seem to be a real law?

If so my view has changed completely. West has supported the creation of a horrible goverment and Crimeas regional government has all their rights to break free, hopefully all minority heavy regions will follow.
Click to expand...
Yeah it's the website of the Ukraine parliament.
I am a Russian speaker so I only understand some of this but google translate also does a decent job. Maybe Resident_UA can help us out?

Here's the banning of the communist party bit( google translated)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=uk&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.c1.rada.gov.ua%2Fpls%2Fzweb2%2Fwebproc4_1%3Fpf3511%3D49863
 
Samantha Powers at UNSC:

Listening to the representative of Russia, one might think that Moscow had just become the rapid response arm of the Office of the High Commissioner for Human Rights. So many of the assertions made this afternoon by the Russian Federation are without basis in reality.
Click to expand...

Russian statement incoming.
 
AlimNassor said:
China has been pro-west whenever it benefits them the most. I find it laughable how anyone would suggest China would ever be our enemy, they'll always be an ally to us because theres no benefit to being our enemy.
Click to expand...

So, what you're saying is that US leadership is incompetent and that Pacific Pivot is a waste of time and resources?

Sviatoslav said:
Yeah it's the website of the Ukraine parliament.
I am a Russian speaker so I only understand some of this but google translate also does a decent job. Maybe Resident_UA can help us out?

Here's the banning of the communist party bit( google translated)

http://translate.google.ca/translate?hl=en&sl=uk&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fw1.c1.rada.gov.ua%2Fpls%2Fzweb2%2Fwebproc4_1%3Fpf3511%3D49863
Click to expand...

Absolutely disgraceful, although considering what the temporary government did to get elected, this doesn't surprise at all.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

How did you get better at handling conflict?
2
60
2K
kpopSuperstar replied
Rogue Squadron Delayed Due to 'Scheduling Conflicts'
45
2K
ManaByte replied
NYT: 1st Amendment No Longer Bipartisan, Now Weaponized for Civil Conflict
36
3K
iconmaster replied
LTTP: The Dress of Conflicting Colors
8
1K
Gavin Stevens replied
NYT: NK Missile Success Is Linked to Ukrainian Plant
2
56
11K
Dingens replied
Top Bottom