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[CitizenVectron]

I'm not seeing any issues with what Russia has done. Having been to the Ukraine...they definitely need to make up their mind with regards to their aspirations...

Plus there are bigger issues in this world than Russia taking advantage of a weak Ukraine.

Few glaring problems with your post:

1) One country invaded another with no provocation. That's wrong. If Russian truly only cared about the people of Crimea, they would have supported a call for an independence referendum. This isn't about Crimea, it's about Russian showing it's power and asserting it's influence over its neighbours so that it can think it is back in the glory days of the Russian Empire or USSR. It wants its buffer states back.

2) This is akin to saying that if you get cancer, you should stop worrying about eating or drinking since you have bigger problems. Of course there are bigger problems in the world than this. But that doesn't meant the world should only address one thing at a time. That's foolish.

3) The fact that you refer to Ukraine as "the Ukraine" shows you lack meaningful insight or knowledge on foreign issues.

 

[jerry1594]

I'm not seeing any issues with what Russia has done. Having been to the Ukraine...they definitely need to make up their mind with regards to their aspirations...

Plus there are bigger issues in this world than Russia taking advantage of a weak Ukraine.

Why,
what,
and what

 

[thefit]

So it looks as though Putin has ordered Russian troops to cease their exercises and return to base!

Those are the official Russian troops running exercises in Russia the forces deployed in Crimea they wont even acknowledge they are theirs by having them remove any sign of who they are.

 

[CadetMahoney]

No country in the world should ever count on Western Europe to do anything to rescue them when shit hits the fan. It will never happen. It's always talk talk talk and oh yeah sanctions then more talks, by the time things have settled many people have died. Then there's more talk about how they should have done more, then a group is set up to investigates the events that lead to the killing and displacement of people. Europe? haha don't ever count on them.

 

[gribbles]

I'm not seeing any issues with what Russia has done. Having been to the Ukraine...they definitely need to make up their mind with regards to their aspirations...

Plus there are bigger issues in this world than Russia taking advantage of a weak Ukraine.

 

[Madness]

Those are the official Russian troops running exercises in Russia the forces deployed in Crimea they wont even acknowledge they are theirs by having them remove any sign of who they are.

Nah, they've now said they have 16,000 troops in Crimea and acknowledge it's under the 25,000 Ukraine agreed to in the base agreement. Though I'm not sure they ever agreed to have them blockade bases and patrol streets. Plus, they've stopped wearing balaclavas and you can see Russian insignia on the APC's.

 

[leroidys]

I'm not seeing any issues with what Russia has done. Having been to the Ukraine...they definitely need to make up their mind with regards to their aspirations...

Plus there are bigger issues in this world than Russia taking advantage of a weak Ukraine.

What does this even mean? Territorial integrity is only for rich countries?

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

What does this even mean? Territorial integrity is only for rich countries?

He's been to "the Ukraine", dude. He knows what's up.

 

[F#A#Oo]

Few glaring problems with your post:

1) One country invaded another with no provocation. That's wrong. If Russian truly only cared about the people of Crimea, they would have supported a call for an independence referendum. This isn't about Crimea, it's about Russian showing it's power and asserting it's influence over its neighbours so that it can think it is back in the glory days of the Russian Empire or USSR. It wants its buffer states back.

2) This is akin to saying that if you get cancer, you should stop worrying about eating or drinking since you have bigger problems. Of course there are bigger problems in the world than this. But that doesn't meant the world should only address one thing at a time. That's foolish.

3) The fact that you refer to Ukraine as "the Ukraine" shows you lack meaningful insight or knowledge on foreign issues.

1) Big deal...Israel? Afghanistan?North West Pakistan? People and nations picking what invasion to give a shit about. I laugh at America talking about invasions when they use drones and support Israel.

2) Indeed but people should not look away then if the above mentioned wars (still in-going) btw are invasions thenselves. Oh wait it involves brown people I forgot...

3) ??? No idea what you mean.

 

[Tesseract]

it's like that black dude in predator in here. i see it over in them trees.

*dry shaves head*

 

[jerry1594]

Oh brother

 

[evil solrac v3.0]

Sphere of influence is an abstract concept, it doesn't factor into Russia having any sort of right regarding Ukraine.

The only reason Russia can even move troops in Ukraine is because of their base in Crimea, period.

The situation is as if the US invaded Okinawa after a government decided to have the base close in a few years. Oh and claiming it's there to protect... English speakers.

Your justifications for Russia protecting "ethnic Russians" is no different than the Nazis used to annex Austria.

that's an awful anology. we have no history with Okinawa and we don't have ethnic Americans living there. have you ever stopped to think that this isn't just Russia but the ethnic/Pro-Russia people of the region and that ending this conflict isn't going to be as simple as telling Russia to go home?

and it's not my justifications. it's how the Russian government is thinking right now.why do you always come off like such a prick in these threads? comparisons to Nazis? your immaturity shows.

 

[ZZMitch]

1) Big deal...Israel? Afghanistan?North West Pakistan? People and nations picking what invasion to give a shit about. I laugh at America talking about invasions when they use drones and support Israel.

2) Indeed but people should not look away then if the above mentioned wars (still in-going) btw are invasions thenselves. Oh wait it involves brown people I forgot...

3) ??? No idea what you mean.

Hooray another America hates brown people post! There are probably a bunch of other threads you can talk about those political issues, which have absolutely nothing to due with this topic.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer

Watch this feed. Stand off at an Air Force base.

 

[TheJLC]

1) Big deal...Israel? Afghanistan?North West Pakistan? People and nations picking what invasion to give a shit about. I laugh at America talking about invasions when they use drones and support Israel.

Oh wait it involves brown people I forgot...

You forget that the US has the support of Israel and allies. The US also had permission for Afghanistan from the UN, and still has permission from the Pakistani Government for the drone strikes that happen in Pakistan. They cannot be compared.

And your belief that the US hates brown people is ignorant.

 

[demolitio]

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer

Watch this feed. Stand off at an Air Force base.

I'm assuming this is another account of the Ukrainian soldiers that are marching unarmed into Russian-controlled territory and trying to take it back? Extremely ballsy move and I commend those guys for their bravery. Not to mention, they're smart by going in unarmed and documenting it all.

Edit: Oh sorry, we're actually talking about Ukraine in a thread dedicated to U.S. injustice...Wait a second, nope. This is indeed the thread about Ukraine! Weird...

We shouldn't care about this because other countries have done bad shit too? Is this the OT version of "Sony too!"?

 

[NYCmetsfan]

I'm assuming this is another account of the Ukrainian soldiers that are marching unarmed into Russian-controlled territory and trying to take it back? Extremely ballsy move and I commend those guys for their bravery. Not to mention, they're smart by going in unarmed and documenting it all.

Yeah. The Russians fired warning shots.

Edit:

@shustry
Russians back down, allow 10 Ukraine soldiers to take up positions at occupied base, but still awaiting orders from Moscow

 

[antonz]

A lot of respect for those guys. Balls of Steel and all that.

 

[demolitio]

Yeah. The Russians fired warning shots.

Edit:

Wow. Thanks for the heads-up as I'll follow that account now too. It seems to be more current anyway.

Once again, I can't commend those guys enough for their bravery AND intelligence. Brilliant move that took balls of steel since they don't know the outcome. True patriots for their country.

 

[TheJLC]

Those soldier are really brave to go up to the Russians unarmed like that.

 

[Nikodemos]

This all feels all feels like an elaborate game of go/weiqi with people as 'stones'.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Its also incredibly smart. If the Russians are claiming their invasion was to protect people, allowing their army to man their bases without any evidence (or even a claim) they were going to hurt people should be a no-brainer.

If they shoot them, it kinda shows what its all about. Half of invading a place especially with a small force (the Russians only have around 1000 troops last I heard) is the fear the populous and military has not actual numbers or actions, its about what-ifs. Once you start to demolish that fear of what-ifs its hard for the invading force to maintain their position unless they decide to really act and commit to killing.

 

[Jotaka]

Brave... kinda... but very smart because they know the russians won't shot them because they are unarmed... at worst case they would be go a jail.

 

[TCRS]

https://twitter.com/AnshelPfeffer

Watch this feed. Stand off at an Air Force base.

damn. very brave of them.

 

[Dice//]

What does this even mean? Territorial integrity is only for rich countries?

Preach it.

 

[antonz]

@AnshelPfeffer · 3m
Standoff not over yet @ #Belbek #Russia & #Ukraine facing each other, not moving Dozens of guns trained on Ukrainians pic.twitter.com/7fqJ01mwOs

Hopefully this doesn't escalate because its small events like this that can blow powder kegs

 

[Doczu]

i'm sorry but you sound like an ignorant yank lumping Europe together into one thing. You do know it's more than one country right. lol

But he's right. In case of emergency, everyone for himself, or everyone for the big guys. That happened a lot in the past.

 

[NYCmetsfan]

Hopefully this doesn't escalate because its small events like this that can blow powder kegs

My biggest fear in all this has always been either false flags on the part of Russia. Or attacks on Russian troops by local resistance which is used as a justification for escalation.

 

[baekshi]

there's a live video feed here but not english
http://www.atr.ua/pages/live.aspx

 

[Madness]

My biggest fear in all this has always been either false flags on the part of Russia. Or attacks on Russian troops by local resistance which is used as a justification for escalation.

There really won't be an escalation I think. Putin has his fun, had his war games, has completely taken over the Crimea. Now, once he has all the pawns in place, he'll broker some deal like he did with Georgia. Forever relinquish all claims to Crimea (will either be autonomous and independent and overseen by Russia with the base in Sevastopol there for perpetuity, or reunite with Russia). Because West Ukraine needs the East, some peace treaty will be signed respecting the Russian nature of East Ukraine, and some backdoor guarantees will be that while Ukraine can join the EU or get close if they want, NATO membership won't be tolerated etc. In the end, it's a game between Russia, the US/EU and Ukraine is just an outlier.

 

[TCRS]

Simon Shuster ‏@shustry 51s
Officer who shot in air as Ukraine column marched up to him said he was on the Maidan fighting 'fascists' with a stick. Presumably Berkut

Berkut scum

edit:

Simon Shuster ‏@shustry 30s
The red flag the Ukrainians marched with is the banner of the fighter pilots who fought Nazis in 1941 and guarded the Yalta Conference

 

[Gormless Noodle]

But he's right. In case of emergency, everyone for himself, or everyone for the big guys. That happened a lot in the past.

Things have changed, although I've yet to see them being put to the test I think there's more unity there than there ever was in the past. I mean, we get it forced down our throats even if we say no in a referendum, so they better at the very least get this sort of shit right.

 

[demolitio]

My biggest fear in all this has always been either false flags on the part of Russia. Or attacks on Russian troops by local resistance which is used as a justification for escalation.

Yup, and the longer this goes on, the more desperate I see Putin getting. Ukraine didn't get suckered into a war with Russia playing the peacekeeping card like Georgia did, but that doesn't mean Russia won't try and make it seem that way even if no one believes them obviously.

Hell, that was my fear with the reports of Yanukovych being dead. Russia could have said it was poison by the new Ukrainian government and used that as an excuse.

Like you said, even local resistance could spark it as I imagine some of the more hardcore people there are getting tired of this or once again, Putin could say they kicked it off.

This is why a strong showing from other nations is important. No one wants a major war, not even Putin so showing you're willing to fight means something or at the very least, that his economy will suffer directly due to his actions although that's a tough one for many European nations. I really think Putin has had his fun though because no one in the entire world wants this escalate except for maybe North Korea...lol

 

[Doczu]

Things have changed, although I've yet to see them being put to the test I think there's more unity there than there ever was in the past. I mean, we get it forced down our throats even if we say no in a referendum, so they better at the very least get this sort of shit right.

I'd like to stand up, clap slowly with teras in my eyes and say i believe you, but just as you said: the only thing they do is force-fuck us with "unity" and "being european".

 

[ISOM]

Hopefully this doesn't escalate because its small events like this that can blow powder kegs

It's funny you say this when you sounded like before you wanted americans to rush in and do I don't know what.

 

[antonz]

It's funny you say this when you sounded like before you wanted americans to rush in and do I don't know what.

I still say Western Powers need to take serious action that penalizes Russia in ways that are more then 2 weeks later ok everything is normal again.

That does not mean I want hundreds of unarmed people to get gunned down. You can take action and not have anyone die

 

[spekkeh]

Well it's probably for the better. I mean in the past there was quite some fighting spirit in many European countries, but in every case the one country that can make a difference; the one European country that is richer than Russia, is Germany. And Germany is a gigantic pussy in the military world stage.

But if Germany weren't pussy, it's achtung pantzer and before you know it the rest of us would be rehearsing our Deutschland ueber alles again, so there's that. Better to be a bunch of squibbling pussies.

 

[TCRS]

two conflicting reports:

Anshel Pfeffer ‏@AnshelPfeffer 3m
Talks with Russians failed. Ukrainian soldiers at Belbek prepare to march to their aircraft under threat of gunfire pic.twitter.com/KVpiGWAPB3

Simon Shuster ‏@shustry 1m
Ukraine Colonel still negotiating, Russian snipers & RPGs still aiming at column of soldiers. But deescalation is clear, at least in Belbek

 

[antonz]

two conflicting reports:

Looks like escalating with an APC unloading even more Russians. Live feed at the site of all of this ended as well

@shustry · 41s
Personnel carrier just arrived, disgorging armed Russian troops at checkpoint. Ukraine commander just finished negotiating.

 

[bananas]

Anshel Pfeffer ‏@AnshelPfeffer 2m
Wives of Ukrainian officers prepare to join the men marching on Belbek airbase pic.twitter.com/Z7J0FLELer

Well, they're not going to shoot at them now.

I mean, the fucking shit storm that would ensue if they did...

 

[gribbles]

Well, they're not going to shoot at them now.

I mean, the fucking shit storm that would ensue if they did...

If recent events have proven anything, it's that we shouldn't rule anything out.

It's the fucking Russians we're talking about here.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

You know guys like McCain have some damn nerve. They go out and rule military force out the window then blame Obama for being weak or whatever.

Nothing McCain has said he would do differently Obama would be against. It's the same sanctions and whatever.

 

[thepotatoman]

I think everyone really underestimates the impact of sanctions. Everyone acts like sanctions don't do anything, but they could have huge impacts on a country's economy, and they really are a damn good deterrent.

If the EU and US both placed sanctions on Russia, Russia would lose about 45% of their exports going by OEC figures practically overnight. That's not something to gawk at, and would be a huge blow to Russia.

I also don't think Russia thought sanctions would be a forgone conclusion, because Russia isn't exactly a tiny country like Cuba or Iran where they don't really have a ton to offer relative to the rest of the world. The EU especially would suffer from a rising price of oil now that they can't get it cheaply from Russia anymore. Sanctions would be a very brave and strong step against Russia.

 

[g23]

I heard Putin's about to be on air in half an hour

 

[Reneledarker]

I think everyone really underestimates the impact of sanctions. Everyone acts like sanctions don't do anything, but they could have huge impacts on a country's economy, and they really are a damn good deterrent.

If the EU and US both placed sanctions on Russia, Russia would lose about 45% of their exports going by OEC figures practically overnight. That's not something to gawk at, and would be a huge blow to Russia.

I also don't think Russia thought sanctions would be a forgone conclusion, because Russia isn't exactly a tiny country like Cuba or Iran where they don't really have a ton to offer relative to the rest of the world. The EU especially would suffer from a rising price of oil now that they can't get it cheaply from Russia anymore. Sanctions would be a very brave and strong step against Russia.

The big problem with sanctions is that they usually only have a big impact on the population. And that helps the ruling government to use it to hold its power by blaming the UN/USA/EU for their situation. See Iraq case, how it helped Saddam after the Gulf War.

A smarter way would be to go for the money of the oligarchs, but I doubt they have the balls to do that.

 

[ЯAW]

I think everyone really underestimates the impact of sanctions. Everyone acts like sanctions don't do anything, but they could have huge impacts on a country's economy, and they really are a damn good deterrent.

If the EU and US both placed sanctions on Russia, Russia would lose about 45% of their exports going by OEC figures practically overnight. That's not something to gawk at, and would be a huge blow to Russia.

I also don't think Russia thought sanctions would be a forgone conclusion, because Russia isn't exactly a tiny country like Cuba or Iran where they don't really have a ton to offer relative to the rest of the world. The EU especially would suffer from a rising price of oil now that they can't get it cheaply from Russia anymore. Sanctions would be a very brave and strong step against Russia.

True. On the other hand it would hurt many EU countries as well. Russia is big trading partner with various EU countries. For example German has €27 billion export industry with Russia and it has been growing year by year, I doubt German nor any other country is willing to sacrifice their own economy for sake of Ukrain.

 

[And_Gignac]

Europe won't join the sanctions. The US, like never before since probably the end of WW2, is alone on this.

http://politi.co/1eNCcIq

 

[markot]

Europe won't join the sanctions. The US, like never before since probably the end of WW2, is alone on this.

http://politi.co/1eNCcIq

Europe lives next to Russia, and will do so forever, they can't just leap to sanctions and hostility.

Its more complex, and no , the US isn't alone, its not even a big player here. Its about the EU and Russia and Ukraine.

 

[Kabouter]

Europe lives next to Russia, and will do so forever, they can't just leap to sanctions and hostility.

Its more complex, and no , the US isn't alone, its not even a big player here. Its about the EU and Russia and Ukraine.

Yeah, you wouldn't want the EU to leap to hostility.

 

[Succinct Verbosity]

Europe won't join the sanctions. The US, like never before since probably the end of WW2, is alone on this.

http://politi.co/1eNCcIq

There are many, many reasons why the Us aren't alone. For one, most major European nations and america are part of NATO. The other reason, as pointed out, is the geographical volatility of Russian troops playing the invader so close to the EU. Sure, a lot of Europe is dependent on Russian oil, but the likes of Germany, France and the UK aren't going to let Russia push continually westwards. Ukraine is an entirely different situation to, say, Poland because it has EU membership - there is no way, for example, that the EU would allow Russia to touch an EU country.