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Ukrainian Conflict - Donetsk Boogaloo

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Russian news, god damn it. Remember that video from today above brave Ukrainian guys going to their occupied base unarmed with a flags only while being greeted with warning shots from russian speznaz? Guess how Vesti named this event today?

"Ukrainian soldiers and Crimeans traded shots"

My mind would be blown if it wasnt blown by constant russian lies long before. Last ORT news reel is really a masterpiece of propaganda and manage to use only 1 real fact in 10 minutes.

I hope at least some of the russian journalists feel shame when preparing such "news". I really do.

It's not really surprising though, I mean we've seen pre-Yanukovich downfall maidan protest footage aired as post-downfall "violence against pro-russian citizens" and old stock footage of a busy Poland/Ukraine border aired as "refugees fleeing to Russia from Ukraine".

It's laughable, but I guess effective when used on the dim-witted.

I show my age and reluctance to change habits when I still find it almost almost impossible to stop posting "The" Ukraine, sorry! :P
 
Russian news, god damn it. Remember that video from today above brave Ukrainian guys going to their occupied base unarmed with a flags only while being greeted with warning shots from russian speznaz? Guess how Vesti named this event today?

"Ukrainian soldiers and Crimeans traded shots"

My mind would be blown if it wasnt blown by constant russian lies long before. Last ORT news reel is really a masterpiece of propaganda and manage to use only 1 real fact in 10 minutes.

I hope at least some of the russian journalists feel shame when preparing such "news". I really do.

How effective is blatantly false reporting/propaganda these days now that most people have access to neutral reporting such as the AP or Reuters on the internet? How much of the outside press is Russia suppressing inside their country?
 
It's not really surprising though, I mean we've seen pre-Yanukovich downfall maidan protest footage aired as post-downfall "violence against pro-russian citizens" and old stock footage of a busy Poland/Ukraine border aired as "refugees fleeing Ukraine".

It's laughable, but I guess effective when used on the dim-witted.

I would also laugh if this shit would not affect russian-speaking Ukrainians in the east and south. If it would be used in Russia only I would just put it in one row with those hilarious North Korea videos about life in the USA.
But it used to create and amplify chaos in my country, so I cant laugh. This shit gotta stop.
 
Russian news, god damn it. Remember that video from today above brave Ukrainian guys going to their occupied base unarmed with a flags only while being greeted with warning shots from russian speznaz? Guess how Vesti named this event today?

"Ukrainian soldiers and Crimeans traded shots"

My mind would be blown if it wasnt blown by constant russian lies long before. Last ORT news reel is really a masterpiece of propaganda and manage to use only 1 real fact in 10 minutes.

I hope at least some of the russian journalists feel shame when preparing such "news". I really do.

Glad to see you're okay dude. At least that propaganda is terrifying and obvious; ours is empowering and insidious--I suspect that a lot of yours is too. It's like a game of chess but with betting to those who live in those spheres. Our's seem to laugh quite a lot. PMQs innit, lunchtime at Eton Boys.
 
How effective is blatantly false reporting/propaganda these days now that most people have access to neutral reporting such as the AP or Reuters on the internet? How much of the outside press is Russia suppressing inside their country?

The borders in people's minds, once established, are really hard to penetrate. Even those that take time to check something in the internet are sure that its just west propaganda and false reporting, since it doesn't fit the picture of the world in their heads. No one want to believe that their domestic media can lie so blatantly, they expect some bias, but straight up lie? No way every newspaper can be wrong, right?

Scary stuff really.
 
The borders in people's minds, once established, are really hard to penetrate. Even those that take time to check something in the internet are sure that its just west propaganda and false reporting, since it doesn't fit the picture of the world in their heads. No one want to believe that their domestic media can lie so blatantly, they expect some bias, but straight up lie? No way every newspaper can be wrong, right?

Scary stuff really.

and then some.
 
CHEEZMO™;103173452 said:

So.. are the "Cossacks" the tea partiers ? I can see this turning very badly for the Ukrainians inside of the base -- and if they defend themselves, Russian troops will have to defend the cossacks, correct?

who trumped up the story about the unarmed Ukrainian soldiers being shot at by the Russians inside the base?

Mobs are terrifying.
 
Friend in the Peace Corps for Ukraine was booted out of the country last week and is on what is basically a vacation while this all gets sorted out.

Apparently it was very hush hush, too.
 
So.. are the "Cossacks" the tea partiers ? I can see this turning very badly for the Ukrainians inside of the base -- and if they defend themselves, Russian troops will have to defend the cossacks, correct?

who trumped up the story about the unarmed Ukrainian soldiers being shot at by the Russians inside the base?

Mobs are terrifying.

The Modern Cossacks are a joke. They stand for everything the real Cossacks opposed. But yeah the whole idea behind having the "civilian" force present is if they can get that to escalate it fit the narrative.

Russia is constantly claiming there are attacks in Crimea. Heck Putin described it last night made it sound like a warzone with police afraid to leave their houses etc
 
Holy shit. That was pretty damn surreal. Vice is probably one of the most legit news organizations around right now, they put out some good shit.

Edit: its kind of funny that the civilians around were more hostile to them than the military. Well not funny but crazy I guess.
Yeah, the civil looking ones are probably a lot more dangerous. When some soldiers do something bad than it falls right back to their respective country, but some civilian mob can do pretty much whatever they want without facing consequences, especially since there's no more police around.
 
Well for whoever makes money out of this: don't kill me :p and you're a prick :) In memory.

Dulce et Decorum Est
BY WILFRED OWEN



Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound’ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.


NOTES: Latin phrase is from the Roman poet Horace: “It is sweet and fitting to die for one’s country.”
 
Russian soldiers probably got really strict orders in order to antagonize the Ukrainian army only as much as Putin deems necessary in order to avoid uncontrolled escalation. This is a political crisis as much as a military one after all. Civilians, though... civilians are not bound by the same rules. Don't be surprised if one of those people does something really stupid.
 
Yea, the real danger short time comes from "cossacks" and local activists. All dirty work will be done by their hands.
 
Putin doesn't take crap from billionaires, he certainly doesn't take crap from some threats from Obama and other western leaders.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjrlTMvirVo

Obama would never do this. God damn, i was afraid for everyone in the room. Including whomever he whispered about at the end. Im sure they are dead now. Surely, this was partly a show. But even as a show. Pretty telling. I doubt Obama could even get republican billionaires to listen to him for show.
 
As mad as he is, you have to begrudgingly respect that shit. Had the fucker cowering.

Well he is suited to the job. I concluded long ago that we are gangsters. Smart, brave, inspiring, earnest aint got shit on have gun will travel. No man is an island. You cannot protect yourself. Sadly gangs have such shitty initiations and hierarchies but at least you get eyes all round, as long as you behave--shame it isn't profitable to extend that thinking.
>_>

<_<

^_^

-;'-.,
 
LOL

Bh60zR6CAAA3EuX.jpg


Bh61Re-CQAAKsZv.jpg
 
We need dictatorial bullies? Why are people praising that? That's how you want your country and economy to be run? Based on fear and threatening expropriation?

You didn't like when W was in power and the Republicans had both congress and the Senate and they rubber stamped everything Bush and the neocons wanted and we had a conservative utopia? Don't you miss the days of "we will smoke them out"....in a completely unrelated country, don't you miss the good days when everyone could afford a house and your one bedroom bungalow was worth 1 million dollars? We need our own Putin now!
 
LOL

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh60zR6CAAA3EuX.jpg[img]

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh61Re-CQAAKsZv.jpg[img][/QUOTE]

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbIXGlt3jFM"]and here I thought the Academy Award for journalism was already awarded...[/URL]

Must have been a mistake... 8D
 
We need dictatorial bullies? Why are people praising that? That's how you want your country and economy to be run? Based on fear and threatening expropriation?

No APK.

Putin is the leader, and he is acting like it. The situation about how shitty it is for the government to come in, for the leader to talk about a single factory getting made, is another problem. People aren't commenting on Putin's entire history as a human being, by seeing him put business men into their place, and giving an ultimatum. The details of the video could be anything. I said sure, it could even be staged, but Obama couldn't even do that.

There is a lot going on in the USA, a lot of political games are played, and a lot of bullshit goes around, and isn't addressed by the president, or the media at large. Putin is in charge, and its very clear from this sample transaction. The only thing admirable about this, is the fact that Putin is acting however someone in his position should, when it comes to inept businessmen. Obama could have treated the Bankers like this, that ruined the worlds economy, he didn't. Or the GOP when they shut down the country.

Please, at least ask for people to go into detail about what they are saying. Rather than assuming its praising a dictators rule. In the context of the video, its not apparent he is dictating to a room of innocent starving children. These are allegedly people who have wasted money, time, and effort. This could be coming from a general to his troops, a manager to his employees, any source. It just happens to be putin, and for me, its rare to see a president actually act with any temerity, when it comes to businessmen.

Moderation is the key to any sort of success in life. So yea, it would be very shocking to see a US/any politician act this way. As theres so much bullshit with our process. I think that is allowed to be noted, isn't it?
 
Ukrainians troops started kicking around a ragged yellow ball on a nearby patch of grass as Russian soldiers watched.
According to the LA Times, one Ukrainian soldiers shouted "Let's play with the Russians." That caused others to cheer. A young soldier approached an armed guard and shouted, "Let's play a soccer game - Ukraine versus Russia."
Bh4TdHZIQAA-szS.jpg:large

source
US plays Ukraine in friendly tomorrow in Cyprus, under the slogan "peace for Ukraine."

[...]
We have already found out the British government is not considering any military options or trade sanctions after a cunning cameramen picked up an official carrying a policy document near 10 Downing Street, zooming in on the relevant paragraph.
[...]
Although, as a former Kremlin adviser, I can tell you that such things don't happen by accident and usually have all to do with sending out a signal to those who are watching carefully.
[...]
The thing about the crisis in Ukraine is that the West has greatly misjudged the way Russia would respond to the possibility of its neighbor sliding into chaos and anarchy, with the so-called interim unity government in Kiev failing to establish its authority in the east and south of the country. Not to mention that the children of the Orange revolution of 2004, which, by the way, eventually ended in tears for most of them, have swallowed more than they can chew when they toppled President Viktor Yanukovich, and then made a crucial mistake of making all the wrong noises from day one, demonstrating open hostility to Russia and to the ethnic Russians living in Ukraine.

And when the dust began to settle in Kiev and news emerged that out of the 98 people who died, at least 16 were police officers, the image of a glorious people's revolution somehow lost its initial appeal.

And with the failed attempts by some extremists to spread the influence of the interim government to the east and south, using intimidation and violence, it became clear that a prospect of a civil war looked very real indeed.

So here's the deal then: as Ukraine was slipping into anarchy and chaos, with all sorts of radicals causing mayhem, President Putin's endgame became obvious. He needed to do anything in his power to prevent Ukraine from becoming another Iraq, with a possibility of a civil war breaking out and violence spreading to Russia at some point.

We should learn the lessons of Iraq where the delicate balance, which had existed there before the U.S.-led invasion of 2003, was undermined and no one now knows how to resolve it. The same outcome happened as a result of the so-called revolution in Kiev that has now opened up old wounds and awoken historical animosities that had been kept in check.

So Putin has chosen to use the 25,000 Russian troops based at Sevastopol, reinforcing them with another 16,000 soldiers, to prevent clashes between radicals on all sides erupting and provide stability in Crimea where about 60% of the population are ethnic Russians. Without a shot being fired, so unlike the rest of the country, law and order have been established. All the Ukrainian military installations in Crimes were surrounded by Russian troops with one purpose: to prevent undesirables arming themselves, like it happened in Lviv and some other cities, with disastrous circumstances. Up to now the plan has worked.

But any suggestions that the Kremlin is actually ready to start a full-blown invasion of Ukraine are way, way off the mark. This would be very dangerous for Russia itself, considering it close links with Ukraine on all levels.
[...]
source

I saw that the current International Space Staion crew has three Russians, one was born in Crimea when Ukraine was an SSR. I wonder what they chat about while they float above the World.
 
We need dictatorial bullies? Why are people praising that? That's how you want your country and economy to be run? Based on fear and threatening expropriation?

For large companies are workers just a figure or a part of a business calculation. They lay off hundreds of people here to open a factory in china or anywhere else or when the shareholders want more profit. This is an economy based on fear and greed.
 
http://wciom.ru/index.php?id=459&uid=114720
http://world.time.com/2014/03/03/putin-ukraine-crimea-russia/?iid=gs-main-lead

At home, this intervention looks to be one of the most unpopular decisions Putin has ever made. The Kremlin’s own pollster released a survey on Monday that showed 73% of Russians reject it. In phrasing its question posed in early February to 1,600 respondents across the country, the state-funded sociologists at WCIOM were clearly trying to get as much support for the intervention as possible: “Should Russia react to the overthrow of the legally elected authorities in Ukraine?” they asked. Only 15% said yes — hardly a national consensus.

That seems astounding in light of all the brainwashing Russians have faced on the issue of Ukraine. For weeks, the Kremlin’s effective monopoly on television news has been sounding the alarm over Ukraine. Its revolution, they claimed, is the result of an American alliance with Nazis intended to weaken Russia. And still, nearly three-quarters of the population oppose a Russian “reaction” of any kind, let alone a Russian military occupation like they are now watching unfold in Crimea. The 2008 invasion of Georgia had much broader support, because Georgia is not Ukraine. Ukraine is a nation of Slavs with deep cultural and historical ties to Russia. Most Russians have at least some family or friends living in Ukraine, and the idea of a fratricidal war between the two largest Slavic nations in the world evokes a kind of horror that no Kremlin whitewash can calm.

Indeed, Monday’s survey suggests that the influence of Putin’s television channels is breaking down. The blatant misinformation and demagoguery on Russian television coverage of Ukraine seems to have pushed Russians to go online for their information. And as for those who still have no Internet connection, they could simply have picked up the phone and called their panicked friends and relatives in Ukraine.

So what about Russia’s nationalists? The war-drum-thumping Liberal Democratic Party, a right-wing puppet of the Kremlin, has been screaming for Russia to send in the tanks. On Feb. 28, as troops began appearing on the streets of Crimea, the leader of that party, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, was on the scene handing out wads of cash to a cheering crowd of locals in the city of Sevastopol, home of Russia’s Black Sea fleet. “Give it to the women, the old maids, the pregnant, the lonely, the divorced,” he told the crowd from atop a chair. “Russia is rich. We’ll give everybody everything.” But in Monday’s survey, 82% of his party’s loyalists rejected any such generosity. Even the adherents of the Communist Party, who tend to feel entitled to all of Russia’s former Soviet domains, said with a broad majority — 62% — that Russia should not jump into Ukraine’s internal crisis.

That does not necessarily mean Putin will face an uprising at home. So far, the antiwar protests in Moscow have looked almost pathetically temperate. But sociologists have been saying for years that Putin’s core electorate is dwindling. What underpins his popularity — roughly 60% approved of his rule before this crisis started — is a total lack of viable alternatives to Putin’s rule. But this decision is sure to eat away at the passive mass of his supporters, especially in Russia’s biggest cities.

In Monday’s survey, 30% of respondents from Moscow and St. Petersburg said Russia could see massive political protests of the kind that overthrew the Ukrainian government last month. Putin’s only means of forestalling that kind of unrest is to crack down hard and early. So on Feb. 28, Russia’s most prominent opposition activist Alexei Navalny was put under house arrest less than six months after he won 30% of the vote in the Moscow mayoral race. Expect more of the same if the opposition to Putin’s intervention starts to find its voice.
 
I do not quite understand why NATO's eastward expansion is supposed to be such a terrible thing that it would warrant Russia invading another country. I mean, I understand why Russia might not like it but it shouldn't in any way excuse their behavior. It's not like it actually changed that much compared to the Cold War either. NATO members such as West Germany were bordering the Iron Curtain, so the eastward expansion if anything is only preserving the old status quo. Whatever you might think of the Soviet Union, it is clear that many of the countries that gained independence after its fall wanted little to do with Russia and were eager to join organizations like NATO to ensure they were protected.

Instead of making comparisons to Canada and Mexico, it would probably be more accurate to compare the situation to a hypothetical independent west-coast. Imagine if the US imploded and states like California gained independence and were very much eager to keep it that way. I could personally not fault them for joining up with some Chinese or Russian military alliance to ensure they were protected from being forcefully reincorporated into the US.

Something about a deal in the 90's where Russian was promised an eastward expansion of NATO wouldn't happen. Putin is an egomaniacal Asshole, but he nor China, nor the United States would ever allow such excursions into what they believe is their sphere of influence. Even in your example, the US would do everything they can to prevent those States from making those alliances.

My person opinion is to hell with Putin and let's get as many as these eastern European countries to go pro West as possible. But to not expect Russia to react the way they have is foolish.
 
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