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[[Nintex]]

When I bought a 360 I expected to download alot XBLA titles, in the end the service just sucks, I don't want to update my 16-bit remake of Sonic. The D-Pad is terrible for 2D games as well. This is just the nail in the coffin for the XBLA service, they have the inferior version of almost every game(Track & Field comes to mind) and the fanbase ignores it because it's just a list of a bunch of old games mixed with some new ones.

Instead of removing content they should put up more content, hosting these titles doesn't cost shit, so removing them would mean a bigger loss. Not to mention it's a slap in the face of developers. It seems that no-one is able to do things right this gen, Sony has no pointscards for sale so you need a credit card which 90% of Europe doesn't have. Nintendo thinks that we'll last a generation with 512mb for DLC, WiiWare, VC and savegames. And now we have Microsoft removing games from their service. I wonder what's next.

 

[kaching]

EDIT: Putting them in a virtual bargain bin though is an idea I can agree with. But if they're devaluing the service, then they need to be removed from XBLA. That doesn't mean they can't put them somewhere else on XBL though.

The only thing that devalues the service, I think, is not being able to find something you're looking for or would be interested in. In that regard, it really has nothing to do with metacritic score or demo-to-purchase conversion rate. It has everything to do with how well the store interface deals with volume. If they delist a bunch of games, they'll just be replaced in a matter of months and if nothing changes about the store interface, you've still got the same issue that it's difficult to find what you're looking for.

I mean, they can't even be bothered to implement the most basic of online storefront tools, a search bar, circa the dawn of online shopping more than a decade ago.

 

[Luckyman]

This quality over quantity and bigger games talk, new 1st party studio doing DD is intresting..

Almost straight from Sonys mouth.

 

[pswii60]

Yeah because new people arent buying 360's right now.

It'll give them an incentive to hurry up and buy one in the three month notice period if they really want to get a hold of Asteroids Deluxe.

 

[Maztorre]

I'm sure glad the fates of small/indie developers are now in the hands of the illiterate interns who review downloadable titles on metacritic's arbitrary list of "trustworthy" review sources

Way to miss the point of digital distribution, MS

 

[Alphahawk]

So let me get this straight? Microsoft finally fixes the one thing XBLA users have been complaining about (DRM) but replace it with the even dumber news of taking down older arcade titles?

Sure there are people that will say "what's the big deal a shit game is a shit game" but this is about monetary value here, if I pay $10 for an XBLA game it's understood that I have a license to that game for life, meaning if I have to delete it to make room for something else I can redownload it free of charge. I don't care if MS is giving me 3 months notice before they delete a game from the service, I don't want to be debating wheter or not to delete Rocky and Bullwinkle on the offchance that I want to play it again...

 

[sneaky77]

I'm sure glad the fates of small/indie developers are now in the hands of the illiterate interns who review downloadable titles on metacritic's arbitrary list of "trustworthy" review sources

Way to miss the point of digital distribution, MS

seriously... if a game hasnt sold a 6% conversion rate in over a year... do you really think is going to suddenly sell a lot after 14 months?

 

[harSon]

I agree. The problem is that it's not the publishers who pay them, it's the customers. They're siding with publisher/dev desires over customer desires, which is why customers are pissed off.

Frankly, I'm all for rounding up a list of publishers and devs who made the request and holding them responsible for this tremendously bad decision as well.

I'm lighting my pitchfork!

How are they fucking over the customer? How many people will the taking down of poorly reviewed, horrible selling, 6-Month old games effect? Pleasing the Publishers/Developers will benefit the customer in the long run.

 

[MMaRsu]

Digg this people!!!

http://digg.com/xbox/Underperforming_XBLA_titles_to_be_removed_from_service

( not doing this to promote my own digg or whatever, I just registered there to post this, because this shit is unacceptable! )

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Just going through this thread because I'm bored, but I'm sure people will be able to re-download there purchased content after its removed.

As it has been said over and over by a few people now.

All current content that has been removed have all disappeared from "Download List". What makes you think this will change unless they say it will.

 

[pswii60]

I mean, they can't even be bothered to implement the most basic of online storefront tools, a search bar, circa the dawn of online shopping more than a decade ago.

They give you a search bar, and then you don't have to walk past the chocolate bars to get to the checkout.

As it has been said over and over by a few people now.

All current content that has been removed have all disappeared from "Download List". What makes you think this will change unless they say it will.

Does this include 'bought' stuff though or only free stuff. Surely MS have a legal responsibility to keep bought stuff available to redownload for a specific amount of time? Having said that, iTunes don't, so who knows.

 

[MotorbreathX]

Nobody's pissed about no Spring update?

 

[Timan]

Am I the only one who doesn't buy alot of arcade titles hoping that one day they'll drop in price?

I'm not a fan of paying 10$ for classic titles I'll play once or twice, but I do wanna purchase a few of em. Call me cheap, but it seems they never lower the price on DLC

 

[Diablohead]

This game removal thing puts me off buying games too, in fright that I may never play it again if my 360 snuffs it, and it's a launch day console.

maybe it's not worth it but to see the games at 1/4 price instead would be a ton better.

 

[sneaky77]

Nobody's pissed about no Spring update?

It doesn't actually say there won't be one.

And also.. they are fixing the DRM which is better than an update that may or may not add things

 

[harSon]

As it has been said over and over by a few people now.

All current content that has been removed have all disappeared from "Download List". What makes you think this will change unless they say it will.

Well, they seem to be fixing the DRM issue.

 

[pswii60]

Nobody's pissed about no Spring update?

Yeah, it'd be nice to see some new stuff on there, but hopefully it means something bigger will be happening later in the year.

 

[FrankT]

Am I the only one who doesn't buy alot of arcade titles hoping that one day they'll drop in price?

I'm not a fan of paying 10$ for classic titles I'll play once or twice, but I do wanna purchase a few of em. Call me cheap, but it seems they never lower the price on DLC

Which is one reason I rarely buy anything off Live anymore. I should buy the map pack for COD4, but I just refuse to at this point in time. At one time I would buy some DLC or XBLA titles, but as of late I've been pretty indifferent about it.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

They give you a search bar, and then you don't have to walk past the chocolate bars to get to the checkout.

My personal example is invalid, as I got the two Lumines track when they were free. However, it was at one point a purchasable item.

The other examples were Themes and Wallpapers and Gamerpics, all of which were paid content.

 

[disappeared]

It's all about choice*.


* "Choice" is copyright 2008 Microsoft Corporation and is subject to change depending on what we think is best.

 

[pswii60]

It's all about choice*.


* "Choice" is copyright 2008 Microsoft Corporation and is subject to change depending on what we think is best.

:lol True.

 

[Dr_Cogent]

Nobody's pissed about no Spring update?

Software/Firmware isn't something you can rush. Perhaps they simply don't have the time to have a major update this spring. It's not really that big of a deal.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

Well, they seem to be fixing the DRM issue.

I read DRM issue as invalid license that is being reissued. This is different from the thing being gone.

I had to call MS up for my DRM fix two months ago. Once they fixed it, I still have to manually download from my Downloaded History list.

The problem that exist here, is that XBLA games that gets purged, will not appear on the Downloaded History list, which means DRM fix or no, it's gone.

 

[DarkestFiber]

It's all about choice*.


* "Choice" is copyright 2008 Microsoft Corporation and is subject to change depending on what we think is best.

:lol Seriously.

 

[besada]

How are they fucking over the customer? How many people will the taking down of poorly reviewed, horrible selling, 6-Month old games effect? Pleasing the Publishers/Developers will benefit the customer in the long run.

Some people like games that other people don't like. The entire point of digital distribution is unlimited shelf space. The cost of keeping these games online is negligible, and some customers will be effected. As has been pointed out, content removed from XBLA doesn't appear on your download history, and is therefore undownloadable.

This puts a segment of customers in the position of being a single hard drive crash away from no longer being able to play games they paid for. The deal on purchase was that these games would be available for redownload if there was a media problem, and they are literally changing the deal in mid stream.

Hell, if they want to grandfather in existing content and apply the rule to new content only, it's still stupid but at least it isn't unethical.

 

[Firewire]

As it has been said over and over by a few people now.

All current content that has been removed have all disappeared from "Download List". What makes you think this will change unless they say it will.

So stuff has been removed from XBLA before, and its missing from peoples download history if they previously purchased it?

If so, I'd contact MS about that right away!

 

[dskillzhtown]

seriously... if a game hasnt sold a 6% conversion rate in over a year... do you really think is going to suddenly sell a lot after 14 months?

That is where I am at on the issue. I don't see the uproar about games that an overwhleming majority of gamers didn't buy or like in the first place. It just seems weird to me that people are getting pissed about this. Not that I buy alot of XBLA titles anyway. I think I may have bought 3 in total.

 

[itsgreen]

Software/Firmware isn't something you can rush. Perhaps they simply don't have the time to have a major update this spring. It's not really that big of a deal.

I care about the firmware, I don't care about XBLA downsizing, can't really see why it helps though, without a new interface for XBLA...

Instead of 160 there will be 120 titles to browse through in a not ideal interface.

It doesn't matter...

 

[bishoptl]

Delisting the older titles is a horrible decision.

 

[Absinthe (Permed)]

How stupid. :lol

 

[Maztorre]

seriously... if a game hasn't sold a 6% conversion rate in over a year... do you really think is going to suddenly sell a lot after 14 months?

If it sells AT ALL after 14 months it's still doing better than not selling anything at all ever again. Basically, if your title is cut, it may as well have never existed.

There is no justification for this, especially given that Microsoft have already made bandwidth charges utterly negligible with their ridiculous (and increasingly arbitrary) size limits. It's another case of everyone involved being fucked over, and the XBLA division having absolutely no idea of what constitutes an "active" service (seriously, cutting titles from the service when they can barely keep a decent stream of content week on week) or how to handle a digital distribution service in a competent manner.

Feel free to lube up and bend over once again, though.

 

[Meier]

They're underperforming because they're too expensive. Make them cheaper.

Of course, that might disuade someone from buying a 'better', more expensive title.

 

[Joates]

If this is true... IF... who the fuck do Microsoft think they are? That's none of their god-damn concern. If a song has only sold like five copies on the iTunes Store, is Apple going to threaten to pull it? Hell no. IT'S A DIGITAL STORE YOU STUPID MORONS! The entire point of a digital store is that (a) it costs less to bring a product to market, and (b) you have endless room for products past, present, and future.

Microsoft (and you other console companies out there), get it through your skull... you know jack shit when it comes to what games I want, and I don't give a shit what games you think I want. If a company wants to sell me a game, let them sell it to me, and get out of the freakin' way. Your job is to create a console, the service to sell games, and then shut the fuck up. If you're going to make the argument that quality games aren't selling because there are too many lesser-quality games on your service, then your service sucks ass and it's all your fault, not the games.

I swear, I just want one console manufacturer who doesn't act like a god-damn moron all of the time.

Looking at besiktas1's list, I own five games that would be considered "underperforming."

Really?? Its MS's fault that developers put out a shitty game that no one is buying (But you MIGHT buy in the future) and costing them money to keep on their servers.

Get this through your head, MS is a fucking business looking to make money, not lose money on some random obscure XBLA title that gets no sales.

And guess what, the games have to meet all the criteria to even be considered for delisting... whatever the hell that even means.

 

[kaching]

They give you a search bar, and then you don't have to walk past the chocolate bars to get to the checkout.

Which, again, is antiquated thinking that every other successful online marketplace (outside the consoles) has dealt with. Amazon, iTunes, etc. Hint: a search bar doesn't take up the whole screen.

 

[harSon]

What do you guys want Microsoft to do? Publishers and Developers have been complaining about A) The wait to get their games approved and on to XBLA B) The fact that an abundance of XBLA (That are often shitty and never sell) games takes away their games face time/advertisement C) Quality of the games approved

Please inform me of a better solution then Quality Control.

 

[AlphaTwo00]

I don't see the uproar about games that an overwhleming majority of gamers didn't buy or like in the first place.

Let's apply this same logic to retail games.

Games like God Hand, or Earth Defense Force has just been told they don't deserve to exist.

 

[Firewire]

Delisting the older titles is a horrible decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0WvmfKoCqw

Where do you find this stuff?

You're tag video's are just awesome! :lol

 

[Maztorre]

They give you a search bar, and then you don't have to walk past the chocolate bars to get to the checkout.

Then they start removing the chocolate bars because they aren't up to standard, right?

 

[Joates]

Let's apply this same logic to retail games.

Games like God Hand, or Earth Defense Force has just been told they don't deserve to exist.

What the fuck are you people talking about?!?!

The games had a chance and FUCKING FAILED!

 

[harSon]

Let's apply this same logic to retail games.

Games like God Hand, or Earth Defense Force has just been told they don't deserve to exist.

Ok, let's apply this to retail.

A game is horribly reviewed and sells like absolute shit. What does retail do? They sure as hell don't keep the game on the shelf :lol

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

I agree that the delisting is not the optimal decision that most hard-core gamers would want, but I really feel like we've got a chicken little "sky is falling" situation going on here where people are grousing like the world is coming to an end.

Will people be able to download games they've paid for again? WE DON'T KNOW. One would think that there would be too much legal risk in not allowing them to, so I'd wager they will. Some folks have brought up that freebies have disappeared from the service. That's true, but no end user paid for them and therefore is not ENTITLED to them always being there. It's really apples/oranges.

This is one of those things that the NeoGAF/HardCore crowd gets all up in arms about and the other 90% of the customer base could care less.

Is there not going to be a dashboard update in the next couple months? WE DON'T KNOW. Obviously, there is not going to be a spring update. Could there be a summer one? We don't know. Does 90% of the customer base care? No.

Don't get me wrong. I don't like the delisting idea, and I'd love a dashboard update, but acting like these two decisions will run the brand/service in the ground is utterly stupid.

 

[pswii60]

Then they start removing the chocolate bars because they aren't up to standard, right?

That's what most retailers would do, yes.

 

[GDJustin]

So much for the long tail....

 

[DancingJesus]

If Microsoft wants to "help" the buyer out so much by removing poor titles why don't they give the customer the choice by posting the metacritic review score next to the title and then let them decide. Steam already does this, problem solved.

 

[kaching]

The entire point of digital distribution is unlimited shelf space.

Not to mention, given Microsoft's stance on keeping XBLA filesize really tiny, they can't exactly claim that storage space is prohibitively expensive.

 

[Maztorre]

That's what most retailers would do, yes.

Because retailers have concerns like shelf-space, which do not exist when your service is selling non-physical goods.

But hey, lets pass this off as a good idea for Microsoft whenever every successful digital service does the exact opposite.

 

[pswii60]

So much for the long tail....

I think the point is, the games they may consider removing don't have a tail. Don't forget MS gets 50% of the dosh on each of these games now, so they aren't going to remove anything economically viable.

Because retailers have concerns like shelf-space, which do not exist when your service is selling non-physical goods.

But hey, lets pass this off as a good idea for Microsoft whenever every successful digital service does the exact opposite.

Also, because retailers don't want their customers complaining that they sold them sub-par quality products.

I mean there are some games on XBLA (eg ALL Stainless Games' games) that if it was the first XBLA game you ever tried, you'd never touch the service again.

As for PSN, whats been removed? I don't keep track of all the stuff, but the only thing I can think of that was removed where movie trailers.

Some demos have been removed too, mainly for PSN games. But they're still in my download history despite not showing on the service.

 

[pj]

Not to mention, given Microsoft's stance on keeping XBLA filesize really tiny, they can't exactly claim that storage space is prohibitively expensive.

It is if they're using 360 memory cards to store them..

 

[kaching]

Ok, let's apply this to retail.

If you want to keep applying this "to retail", then you're going to quickly reach a point when you're forced to realize most of even the best rated games on XBLA wouldn't have made it to retail.

 

[twinturbo2]

At least they're fixing the DRM issue, so I can save up for an Elite with no worries.