Pathfinder
Member
To use it.
Kind of a weird question. The buyer will be able to use the app on their PC.
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Universal Apps including Rise of the Tomb Raider have limitations on Windows Store
- Thread starter SerTapTap
- Start date
To use it.
Kind of a weird question. The buyer will be able to use the app on their PC.
I can't be the only buyer of the game.
Again GFWL. Again sales of THIS game. Again, you are failing to see the bigger picture.
They are willing to leave MalDo's $126 on the table, because they increase the earning potential of the Win10 store, buy having content that draws in additional traffic, which draws in developers, which draws in more services and apps, which draws in more traffic.
The $126 from him is but a drop in the bucket. There are other users who will buy this game, and then go on to buy other games and apps from the store. Those customers are simply more valueable to MS than Maldo. Maldo wasn't going to buy an MS game before this announcement, and he isn't buying one after...
Your insistence in looking at this purely through the lense of a gamer, ever focused on games sales, is preventing your from understanding the situation as a whole.
If the total sales of THIS game was what they were worried about, the game would be on steam.
Auto-Reply
Member
I believe the games are calculated casualties if the store doesn't lift off, as are the people looking for these games.
If Microsoft only wants to get the games out to as many people as possible and sell digital goods to customers they could have done this all along, but they never did. There is always a hook with what they are doing, always.
They don't want to compete with other stores, Steam is pocketchange business to them. It's about personal ambition more than revenue, they are already filthy rich, nothing to gain from a store like that.
Either they tranform the market into what they want or they will tear it down and try anew sometime later.
If Microsoft only wants to get the games out to as many people as possible and sell digital goods to customers they could have done this all along, but they never did. There is always a hook with what they are doing, always.
They don't want to compete with other stores, Steam is pocketchange business to them. It's about personal ambition more than revenue, they are already filthy rich, nothing to gain from a store like that.
Either they tranform the market into what they want or they will tear it down and try anew sometime later.
MS ecosystem = One Store, One Dev platform, One OS, Many devices that use those "one things"
Group 1: Well for us, we want you to forget all of that and do what we are used to.
Group 2: That wouldn't make sense as it's not apart of their whole initiative throughout the whole company.
Group 1: We don't care, you fucked us over once, you'll do it again.
Group 2: New initiative, new leadership, new team working on said initiative.
Group 1: Don't care, it won't be successful and I refuse to buy into it, it will fail like GFWL
Group 2: It's not GFWL because it's not only games
Group 1: The first game that came out on the new stuff sucks and it has issues in which we won't deal with and won't buy from the store. Release it on what we like. Fuck their initiative.
Group 2: We agree that they have kinks to fix, they said that they are aware, it's something new and your group is a minority group so they probably went for a broad set of features to get the best bang for buck and then continue to improve from there.
Group 1: They should have had it working out the gate. Fuck them, they are doing the same bullshit as before.
Group 2: It's not the same, etc...
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This is what this thread has turned into.
I find it funny that people think that if QB is not successful that it will somehow release on Steam. If the Windows Store fails...you can best believe that MS will focus way more on Xbox One and just leave those games right where they are. I wouldn't bet on QB failing and it going to Steam at all. So it seems to me that you'll either get the game on the Windows Store or you don't get the game. If you're fine with that, so be it, but I wouldn't bet majority of users are in that same position. I think there's a number of users are going to be happy that they'll have to not even need an Xbox One and can just play those games that they bought the console for and get it through the Store while MS improves the service. It's not going to happen overnight. Either way, interesting time ahead. GDC, //BUILD/, and E3 will be entertaining this year.
Group 1: Well for us, we want you to forget all of that and do what we are used to.
Group 2: That wouldn't make sense as it's not apart of their whole initiative throughout the whole company.
Group 1: We don't care, you fucked us over once, you'll do it again.
Group 2: New initiative, new leadership, new team working on said initiative.
Group 1: Don't care, it won't be successful and I refuse to buy into it, it will fail like GFWL
Group 2: It's not GFWL because it's not only games
Group 1: The first game that came out on the new stuff sucks and it has issues in which we won't deal with and won't buy from the store. Release it on what we like. Fuck their initiative.
Group 2: We agree that they have kinks to fix, they said that they are aware, it's something new and your group is a minority group so they probably went for a broad set of features to get the best bang for buck and then continue to improve from there.
Group 1: They should have had it working out the gate. Fuck them, they are doing the same bullshit as before.
Group 2: It's not the same, etc...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is what this thread has turned into.
I find it funny that people think that if QB is not successful that it will somehow release on Steam. If the Windows Store fails...you can best believe that MS will focus way more on Xbox One and just leave those games right where they are. I wouldn't bet on QB failing and it going to Steam at all. So it seems to me that you'll either get the game on the Windows Store or you don't get the game. If you're fine with that, so be it, but I wouldn't bet majority of users are in that same position. I think there's a number of users are going to be happy that they'll have to not even need an Xbox One and can just play those games that they bought the console for and get it through the Store while MS improves the service. It's not going to happen overnight. Either way, interesting time ahead. GDC, //BUILD/, and E3 will be entertaining this year.
Having all the softwares in one place from where you can easily download them instead of having to search for them in a web browser, find the right site where to download the exe etc...and Windows 10 is not only on desktop PC, it's a universal OS which also runs on Surface and other Surface clones which are coming out in force lately, from Windows 10 Store you can download apps which are also made for the touch screen, which are essential for a tablet, i have a Surface Pro 4 so i know that.
That said it's not like they're forcing you to use the Windows 10 Store, it is there and you can use it for what you think is worth it(like the "tablet" apps on Surface), if you don't want to use it then just go the old way downloading from the web browser. If you want to play Quantum Break on PC, a game made by Microsoft on which they invested plenty of money and time then buy it from their store, if not don't play it...nobody is forcing nobody to do something so i don't get why that store should just not exist for the world's sake
GhostTrick
Banned
You are painting a one-sided picture which is frankly insulting and extremly degrading, you said we're here to discuss (at least the people on your "side" said) and here you're trying to play off all of our complaints as non-issues that all will be fixed and if they won't it's part of their philosophy and we should deal with it.
These kinds of replies doesn't foster good discussion at all and I deeply dislike the attitude that it brings with it.
GhostTrick
Banned
Sure did work on Windows 8.1. No in fact it didnt. People dont want a smartphone experience on a PC. Why do you think Microsoft brought the start button back ?
LordRaptor
Member
I don't believe anyone has said that.
Not releasing it as a standard Windows executable and allowing any vendor other than MS to provide it absolutely ensures it fails though.
If you go to Amazon, or Greenman Gaming, or Origin, or GOG, or Steam, you'll never see a Coming Soon page, or a Preorder Now page, or any acknowledgement that it even exists as anything other than an Xbox One exclusive.
Pathfinder
Member
Windows 8.1 didn't have the initiative or the ecosystem push that Windows 10 does.
Windows 8.1 was definitely a "Look, we have a storefront too now!" kind of thing. But Windows 10 and the new Windows Store extends far past standard PC's.
GhostTrick
Banned
Yes. To smartphone. That's not really relevant to PC users to be honest. The reality is really few people care about their store.
Pathfinder
Member
To smartphones, to Surface, to Xbox, etc... anything that runs Windows 10 will be able to take advantage of the store and its offerings.
Few people care about their store now, but let's see what happens when they start flooding it with AAA games.
Only if by fail you mean sell fewer copies than it would if it were available for sale through all channels.
Unforetunely for your argument, that's not how MS will be guaging the success of this initiative.
Instead they will be monitoring traffic of their store. If traffic picks up considerably, then they will view it as a success... If people who buy QB then go on to buy other things from the store, then it will have been an even bigger success.
They don't need the volume YOU expect in order to get what they want out of this venture.
I don't expect that to happen aside from Microsoft's exclusives, which is a handful of titles. It's not like Quantum Break on PC will run on the Surface Pro just because it's on the Windows Store.
LordRaptor
Member
Perhaps.
I for one don't particularly want to see headlines about mass layoffs at Remedy 2 months after release.
The point being. If you had no intentions of buyin QB or Forza on Xbox, then you simply weren't going to buy the game.
Now that they are releasing it on the Win10 store, you still aren't going to buy the game.
So wirh the news that they offering this game exclusively on Win10, they haven't lost you as a potential buyer... because you weren't going to buy the game anyway.
Pathfinder
Member
And you think this will suddenly happen because Microsoft is choosing to offer Quantum Break in the Windows Store?
Okay...
tiredheadcrab
Member
I have a headache from reading this thread. Yikes.
I like the idea of the Windows store. But they need to pick up their offerings. QB here I come.
I like the idea of the Windows store. But they need to pick up their offerings. QB here I come.
GhostTrick
Banned
That's wrong. What's even the point of releasing it on the Win10 store then according to you ? If people had no intention on buying it on Xbox, why would they buy it on Win10 store after all ?
If QB was released on Steam or any other service, I would buy it on day one. If QB was free on Windows Store, I wouldn't bother. Why ? Because I vote with my wallet. Of course they lost him and many people as potential buyers. Because people remember GFWL, which was less than 2 years ago.
What if QB was sold exclusively at Gamestop, and that you decided to never buy from Gamestop ever, because of their policy or because of a previous bad experience. Does it mean you never had attention to buy QB ?
There's plenty of great games, and the choice is vast. It's up to publishers to get consumers attention.
what does not releasing on Steam have to do with Remedy layoffs?
If the game is good, and people want to play it, people will buy it, wherever it is. The folks who draw the line in the sand at the available storefronts are a minority.
If the Win10 version of Tomb Raider didn't suck ass, people will have bought it there too... Hopefully, MS can improve on the performance and get rid of some of these restrictions.
Ok. You don't have to like what I see as how the discussion is going. That's fair. But you realize that people have repeated the PC complaints (SLI/Crossfire, Vsync, etc...) and that the people in the same group as "i'm in" said that those are valid complaints, no one has disagreed that they aren't issues. I still see modding a big issue and wonder how that's going to be handled. But see, there are a number of people who have these complaints but also look at GFWL (or not like executables of old) and say they want it to "fail" and that this is no different or even worse, etc...Then the group that I'm in is saying that it's not the same, and this initiative is more than just games, yes, it has issues but there's a bigger precedent that this won't go the same way as how much this means to Microsoft as a whole. There's a bunch that don't see the bigger picture and that's where the differeniation comes into when we have these discussions.
I will have to say that Trup1aya has repeated himself so many times, I have repeated myself so many times (even outside of this thread) that it gets tiring.
I'll give you an example of not understanding:
LordRaptor said:
Look at that sentence. Not releasing as a standard Windows executable and allowing other vendors to provide it is going to guarantee failure. So basically because it's not doing shit from 20 years ago, it ensures failure because that's how technology evolves? Microsoft is trying something new but he ensures that because it's not something of old it won't see success. How can one have a discussion about understanding when the basis of MS doing something new (and still supporting the old stuff) when it's shut down at the very essense of what it is? They are trying something new and putting the whole company behind it and it will fail because it's not doing the same shit from forever ago? I have said a wait a see approach is much better than flat out saying something is not going to work. I see what MS is doing and I hope it does work but it can entirely fail but to say that it's going to because of legacy stuff is asinine. That's why the circle of the discussion (that people come in and say as they just lurk and notice the circle of the disussion) keeps happening. I'm not saying every discussion is that but it "basically" is.
------------------------------------------
Basically all in all, I hope for the best and cautious about the worst.
Someday, everything will work out. Steam started shitty too, but I don't remember it being this bad.
I feel sorry for the people who like to mod or inject.
I myself only care about Gsync working and having achievements since I prefer those over trophies. I honestly would buy everything on Windows 10 store over steam if all the big third party AAA games came to it, not just microsofts. But that's just me.
Being in the Xbox ecosystem is my preference.
I feel sorry for the people who like to mod or inject.
I myself only care about Gsync working and having achievements since I prefer those over trophies. I honestly would buy everything on Windows 10 store over steam if all the big third party AAA games came to it, not just microsofts. But that's just me.
Being in the Xbox ecosystem is my preference.
Pathfinder
Member
Yup. A loud minority, but a minority all the same.
"Group 2" actually consists of about four condescending, sarcastic, Windows 10 Store defenders. You're depicting them as a calm voice of reason, but that depiction doesn't match up at all with the actual content of this thread.
And I still can't believe there even is a Windows 10 Store defense force, but wow, it's a thing.
LordRaptor
Member
Stores pushing products they want to sell is nothing to do with technology, and is substantially older than 20 years.
Nobody is promoting the PC SKU of Quantum Break.
The Windows 10 Store isn't even doing so.
The game is out in less than 6 weeks.
e: It's being sent to die. For bullshit internal MS political reasons. Shits depressing.
How is this even a question? he represents one type of gamer. They type who has no interest in buying an Xbox version or a UWA version. These folks were not in the ecosystem prior to MS announcing their entry into PC publishing. And they still aren't in the ecosystem afterwards. There's no net change.
There are other gamers, who prior to the announcement would have bought the Xbox version. And will still buy the Xbox version. There's no net change.
There are other gamers who, prior to the announcement would not have bought the Xbox version. Who will now buy the PC version. There's a net gain.
No doubt, there are a lot people who would but the game if from another store front. But MS would rather court customers who will improve the business prospects of their store, which is where their future prospects lie. I'm not sure why you can't seem to understand that total unit sales isn't the priority here.
Seriously, how many PC gaming enthusiasts, with rigs capable of running QB would be sifting through the Win10 store for news on upcoming releases? I mean what are you even saying here?
GhostTrick
Banned
There's something funny about it. It's the fact that you consider the ecosystem being Xbox or UWA... when we're talking about Windows. Microsoft's best interest is that people STAY on Windows and keep using Windows. Their future prospects lie into keeping people on Windows, not trying to shoehorn a store into it.
Total unit sales isn't the priority here, the thing is, because the game will bomb there, it won't even change a thing for Microsoft for their store. It won't bring traffic, it won't generate hype or revenue or even interest.
Pathfinder
Member
Sort of like how people said ROTR on Xbox One was being sent to die, yet ended up selling over a million copies over the holidays anyway?
Yes, we've heard that before...
Oh boy.
I am a Remedy fan.
I bought Max Payne two times on PC.
I bought Max Payne 2 two times on PC.
I bought Alan Wake on PC.
I bought American Nightmare on PC.
I will not buy Quantum Break in Windows Store but I surely would buy the game in a different store.
How in the world I'm not a Quantum Break potential customer?
justsomeguy
Member
I really wish people would move away from the phrase "defence force". It's a reductionist attempt to stifle conversation and invalidate the views of people who disagree with whoever's using the phrase. If your counter-argument doesn't stand up on its own, change your view or change how you're expressing it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Pathfinder
Member
You're a potential customer sure, but you fall into the minority group that won't purchase a game because you don't care for the storefront. Nothing they say or do will convince you, so they lose your sale.
Wtf are you talking about bruh? MalDo made a comment that suggested MS should be sweating the $126 they are 'losing' by his refusal to buy from the win 10. I countered that they are less interested in inflating their unit sales totals, and are more interested in increasing traffic in their own storefront.
I also noted that since he isn't currently buying MS gaming products, (which are either Xbox games, or UWA from the win store) they aren't Losing anything by him sitting out on QB. That's not up for debate.
It's also worth noting that Microsoft is actively merging the Xbox ecosystem and the rest of the Windows ecosystem, with UWA being the backbone.
I literally have no clue what your comment has to do with anything.
justsomeguy
Member
Because you, a consumer, and your right, refuse to conform.
tbf to Maldo you are arguing semantics there. He/she's a potential customer for QB.
But then I just don't understand the attitude Maldo and others are showing by boycotting the store, I just see it as cutting off nose to spite face. (of course I've read the arguments. I just don't agree with the "never buying from the store" conclusion reached as a result of those arguments)
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
While I agree with this statement, we have no data to support this bolded statement as a fact.
And I am willing to bet it is not as small as you think it is in the PC gaming front.
I was in agreement with him/her. It was sarcasm. Hence why I said he/she had a right to, where he/she felt like they were being labeled as not a 'potential consumer' as the new argument from those defending the store, lol.
Sure, You are a potential customer. But Microsoft isn't losing anything by not meeting you on steam or GoG or whatever else.
Prior to the announcement you weren't buying QB. After the announcement you still aren't buying QB.
Your status hasn't changed. As it relates to QB, They were never counting on your money, so how can they have lost it?
Sure they are limiting their total unit sales potential for QB. But they are more interested in getting potential repeat customers into their store, which to them is more valuable than your single purchase of their game.
justsomeguy
Member
oops, my bad.
GhostTrick
Banned
If people aren't willing to spend money there, it's because they don't want to get there. Not buying MS gaming products ? Maybe he's using a 360 or Xbox one controller, on a Windows operating system. Maybe he bought Ori and the Blind Forest.
My comment is that for you, Microsoft ecosystem is all about UWA and Xbox. It's not. It's wider than that. Steam is a part of that wider ecosystem, so are other 3rd party programs and storefronts. Sure, they don't get a cent on these, but these are the appealing argument to augment traffic/userbase on THEIR windows OS.
Complete mischaracterization of my argument. I never said that he wasn't a potential customer.
Merely stating the fact that they didn't lose a customer by announcing QB as a win10 exclusive... Maldo wasn't a customer before or after the announcement.
Ol No Bones
Banned
Mike Ybarra might be the right guy. @XboxQwik
Pathfinder
Member
Perhaps. I wonder if some sales statistics will leak at some point.
Thank you for your friendly advice.
I'll continue to use the term "defense force" to describe a group of people who are enthusiastically defending an unpopular idea.
And yes, I'm surprised that there is a Windows 10 store defense force.
.
But QB and Forza 6 aren't available on 360. Which are the games he specifically mentions skipping out on. Wtf are you going on about here?
So unless he was going to buy them on xb1, and decided not to because he's pissed about the win10 release, it's safe to say that this announcement of QB exclusivity did not evoke a change in his intent to own MS products.
Well for me I won't buy the game if fiddling with the files isn't allowed, just how it is. When it becomes a legacy app I want to be able to fix it myself if Microsoft decides it's not worth it.
and I don't understand how it's defendable to not give access to the files, it's such a basic trait of having an open system which microsoft so much wants it not to be.
I do not like their philosophy and therefore I will not buy from them for a couple of reasons which as it looks now won't be easily changed.
It doesn't help that games bought legally on GFWL isn't avaiable to download at the moment which doesn't really inspire me to "give MS a chance" after their earlier failures when they had an albeit differwnt focus they could easily decide to change their current focus within 5-10 years also.
and I don't understand how it's defendable to not give access to the files, it's such a basic trait of having an open system which microsoft so much wants it not to be.
I do not like their philosophy and therefore I will not buy from them for a couple of reasons which as it looks now won't be easily changed.
It doesn't help that games bought legally on GFWL isn't avaiable to download at the moment which doesn't really inspire me to "give MS a chance" after their earlier failures when they had an albeit differwnt focus they could easily decide to change their current focus within 5-10 years also.
GhostTrick
Banned
But they are available on WINDOWS. You know, this operating system by Microsoft. The problem isn't Windows 10. It's Windows 10 store. You see, if these games were on other storefronts but exclusive to the W10 OS, I would've upgraded asap.
I just want MS to fix the vsync stuff, and maybe overlay stuff or I guess enable developers to give benchmarking tools (I guess that's what Gears:UE is doing) and somehow make mods possible (I see this as being a developer thing too unfortunately) as that's my biggest gripe (I understand why they have ish closed down but somehow make it better for the community to do stuff). Everything else to me (buying from the store, and having them UWA) is small to me. That's my personal opinion though.
Totally valid (and we agree on one point) response and action taken and I understand it.
Spirited said:
Totally valid (and we agree on one point) response and action taken and I understand it.
I don't think anyone here defends that
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
That is such a loose argument. That can be said about ANY product ever made. And lets not pretend a company, especially MSFT, does not want as much customers, and lasting customers as they can get.
"They did not lose one", but do not pretend they don't want to gain as many as they can. And they most certainly need to do better in the PC front with that. In it's current state, most power users will just shy away and remain bitter.
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