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*UNMARKED SPOILERS ALL BOOKS* Game of Thrones |OT| - Season 4 - Sundays on HBO

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S

Steelyuhas

Member
cpmpndl.png


Content Roundup: Breaker of Chains

Reviews and Recaps:
AV Club (experts)
AV Club (newbies)
Alan Sepinwall (Hitfix) Review
Andy Greenwald (Grantland) Recap
Rolling Stone Recap
IGN Review
Memles (Cultural Learnings) Recap
TIME Recap
The Guardian Recap
James Hibberd (EW) Recap
Alyssa Rosenberg (Washington Post) Recap
WiC.net Recap (Book Readers)
WiC.net Recap (Unsullied)

HBO Content:
HBO Viewers guide of the episode
Inside the Episode
"The Walls of Meereen" GRRM talks talks history of the richest slave city
"No Need for a Horse" Dany's gamble pays off
Scene: Dany's Speech
"Oathkeeper" Preview

Interviews:
Aidan Gillen talks return of Littlefinger
Nikolaj Coster-Waldau talks Jaime's "act of powerlessness"
Director Alex Graves on the controversial scene
Alex Graves goes a little more in depth about the controversial scene

Ratings: Viewers rise to match premiere, 6.6 million

This post will be linked in the OP.
 
Z

Zabka

Member
bishopcruz said:
So to add to the murkiness of the rape/she was totally into it (sigh) issue:


Another quote from Alex Graves explaining that it was supposed to be consensual.

He goes into detail as to why:



Yeah, nope. Graves screwed up BIGTIME. It comes off as rape, D&D even talk about it as such. At least they got the disturbing part of it right, I guess? Good lord, what was he thinking?
Click to expand...
He seems like such a smart guy in his interviews about last week's episode. What a dumbass.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
I think Graves has been terrific on the show and I can't wait for his next two episodes later in the season, but the the scene that aired in last night's episode clearly did not come across as he claims is the intention.
 
P

PhoenixDark

Banned
I wonder if Graves is a victim of bad editing here...but then again, he has to have seen the episode, and therefore knew what the final result of the scene was.
 
I

Iksenpets

Banned
I wonder, is there no point in the process where someone who wasn't involved in the filming of the scene would watch it before it gets released? Graves sees all these little things because he was directing them in the scene, but all it would've taken was one or two other people watching it to tell him that none of that is coming across on screen and Cersei needs to actually vocalize consent for this to work on film. Especially for a scene this important and this nuanced, seems like an important precaution.
 
T

thefro

Member
Dysun said:
GRRM basically says it was an unnecessary change without throwing them under the bus, and not how it was originally supposed to play off as.
No surprise, this is probably the first time I've ever had my faith in D&D shaken severely. I could put up with Stannis being Melisandre's simp because he had grand plans to come but kneecapping Jaime's redemption is incoherent with his storyline.
Click to expand...

Yep... that's completely out of character as to how he was portrayed in the books.

Surprised no one caught it... I hope they edit it for the Blu-Rays.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Again, you guys are imagining these redemptive scenes for Jaime that aren't there. He did one nice thing in three seasons.

It's the same reason I don't necessarily like Theon even as Reek despite the fact that he arrowed that wildling for Bran. He beheaded Ser Rodrick, helped to kill farm boys, and others I'm sure. I don't want him tortured but I sure want him dead.

People like show Jaime Lannister for one reason. One. The portrayal of the actors who play Brienne and Jaime.

Hell, I might as well say Tywin is redeemed. He seemed rather agreeable this episode, dispensing great advice and even getting along with the good guys.
 
Y

Yaboosh

Super Sleuth
Speevy said:
Again, you guys are imagining these redemptive scenes for Jaime that aren't there. He did one nice thing in three seasons.

It's the same reason I don't necessarily like Theon even as Reek despite the fact that he arrowed that wildling for Bran. He beheaded Ser Rodrick, helped to kill farm boys, and others I'm sure. I don't want him tortured but I sure want him dead.

People like show Jaime Lannister for one reason. One. The portrayal of the actors who play Brienne and Jaime.

Hell, I might as well say Tywin is redeemed. He seemed rather agreeable this episode, dispensing great advice and even getting along with the good guys.
Click to expand...


I like book Jaime a lot. He is a likable character. Tywin too.
 
D

dubq

Member
Speevy said:
Again, you guys are imagining these redemptive scenes for Jaime that aren't there. He did one nice thing in three seasons.

It's the same reason I don't necessarily like Theon even as Reek despite the fact that he arrowed that wildling for Bran. He beheaded Ser Rodrick, helped to kill farm boys, and others I'm sure. I don't want him tortured but I sure want him dead.

People like show Jaime Lannister for one reason. One. The portrayal of the actors who play Brienne and Jaime.

Hell, I might as well say Tywin is redeemed. He seemed rather agreeable this episode, dispensing great advice and even getting along with the good guys.
Click to expand...

Marry me, Speevy.
 
U

User 100115

Banned
I'm glad I'm not the only one angry, and I'm sure it's been said before, but seriously, wtf show.

First Dany/Drago, now this...the fuck.

I've actually been pretty okay with a lot of the book changes; it's a very well done adaptation, but this bullshit of turning consensual sex into rape to manufacture drama or for shock value is seriously pissing me off.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Can we talk about one REALLY well done scene?

Maybe it was just me, but the Sansa/Dontos/Tywin sequence from the first moments of the episode was thrilling. I was like "holy shit here we go"

For a show that so rarely gets your heart racing right off the bat, I enjoy things like that.
 
D

DrForester

Kills Photobucket
Fiction said:
I'm glad I'm not the only one angry, and I'm sure it's been said before, but seriously, wtf show.

First Dany/Drago, now this...the fuck.

I've actually been pretty okay with a lot of the book changes; it's a very well done adaptation, but this bullshit of turning consensual sex into rape to manufacture drama or for shock value is seriously pissing me off.
Click to expand...

I have to believe it's just for shock value. Same reason they toss in a brothel scene every chance they get.
 
J

Jigorath

Banned
Do D&D dislike Jaime or something? What is with these weird character changes? First they have him murder his cousin in season 2, and now he's a rapist. It's completely opposite of how they've treated Dany by making her some perfect heroine who can do no wrong. And I still haven't forgiven them for making Stannis beg for sex, Stannis never begs for anything.
 
R

Ratrat

Member
Well now we know there will be no ramification because it was just a badly edited scene. Pretty unjustifiable that they did this.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Ratrat said:
Well now we know there will be no ramification because it was just a badly edited scene. Pretty unjustifiable that they did this.
Click to expand...

First scene next week:

Jaime: Sorry about raping you last week. I was having a bad day.
Cersei: Kill Sansa for me and all is forgiven.
 
L

LordCanti

Member
Speevy said:
First scene next week:

Jaime: Sorry about raping you last week. I was having a bad day.
Cersei: Kill Sansa for me and all is forgiven.
Click to expand...

Jaime: "You wanted me to bone you right?"
Cersei: "Of course I did...baka."

The mouths won't match at all and the dialogue will have been recorded via Skype.
 
P

PFD

Member
Based on the preview looks like we'll be seeing the following next week:

Dany conquers Mereen by sending her unsullied through the sewers
More training with Bronn
Brienne leaves King's Landing looking for Sansa
Night's watch go back to craster's keep
Bran and company meet coldhands
Tommen sees a ghost (lol)

Speevy said:
Hell, I might as well say Tywin is redeemed. He seemed rather agreeable this episode, dispensing great advice and even getting along with the good guys.
Click to expand...

He was great in the scene below, but I kept thinking how sad it will be to lose these two great actors by the end of this season

jbePQH0RW9xEoy.png
 
D

dubq

Member
Pray For Death said:
Based on the preview looks like we'll be seeing the following next week:

Dany conquers Mereen by sending her unsullied through the sewers
More training with Bronn
Brienne leaves King's Landing looking for Sansa
Night's watch go back to craster's keep
Bran and company meet coldhands
Tommen sees a ghost (lol)
Click to expand...

I don't think
that is Coldhands. It looks like a standard White Walker.
Also, that scene
with the Night's Watch isn't at Craster's. It's Jon and Grenn training at Castle Black..
 
P

PFD

Member
dubq said:
I don't think
that is Coldhands. It looks like a standard White Walker.
Also, that scene
with the Night's Watch isn't at Craster's. It's Jon and Grenn training at Castle Black..
Click to expand...

There is a shot at craster's showing the guy who stabbed mormont
 
B

bishopcruz

Member
And once again, for those who missed it:

The Jamie/Cersei scene was supposed to come off as eventually consensual.

Not that they succeeded at it. They clearly did not. But that WAS the intent, and on a rewatch, it really is the last few seconds of the scene that are the worst offenders. About halfway through there are signs that it's pretty close to the book with Cersei getting into it, then they hit the floor and NOPE it feels like rape again.

For once, a scene on the show was TOO subtle in what it was trying to convey. That, and when the show has spent so much time not having Cersei use sex as a weapon, or knowing how she has used it on Jamie in the past, the scene just comes off as pissed off Jamie claiming what is his and not the weird-ass sexual relationship the twins actually have. The books take time to explain that Cersei held all the power in the relationship, and that she made Jamie be the aggressor in their sexual encounters, with none of that shown or even really hinted at, there is no way most people will not see the scene as rape, no matter the intentions of the director.
 
T

Trasher

Member
Intent or not, that scene was butchered. It's really too bad. I feel bad for the show watchers who have to live with that version of Jaime now.
 
U

User 100115

Banned
bishopcruz said:
And once again, for those who missed it:

The Jamie/Cersei scene was supposed to come off as eventually consensual.

Not that they succeeded at it. They clearly did not. But that WAS the intent, and on a rewatch, it really is the last few seconds of the scene that are the worst offenders. About halfway through there are signs that it's pretty close to the book with Cersei getting into it, then they hit the floor and NOPE it feels like rape again.

For once, a scene on the show was TOO subtle in what it was trying to convey. That, and when the show has spent so much time not having Cersei use sex as a weapon, or knowing how she has used it on Jamie in the past, the scene just comes off as pissed off Jamie claiming what is his and not the weird-ass sexual relationship the twins actually have. The books take time to explain that Cersei held all the power in the relationship, and that she made Jamie be the aggressor in their sexual encounters, with none of that shown or even really hinted at, there is no way most people will not see the scene as rape, no matter the intentions of the director.
Click to expand...

Sorta creeps me out that the directors of the scene thought that would be seen as consensual by anyone, much less their entire audience :/
 
B

bishopcruz

Member
Trasher said:
Intent or not, that scene was butchered. It's really too bad. I feel bad for the show watchers who have to live with that version of Jaime now.
Click to expand...

Oh I agree, which is odd because Graves keeps talking about how much work went into it, how he wanted the blocking, planning for it days in advance and the like. I honestly think he just didn't SEE how bad it was coming off because he already knew what he wanted to come across in the scene. Knowing what the directorial intent was, I see what he was going for, it was supposed to be a violent, nasty power game between two fucked up individuals. But the way it's shot and shown places Cersei in the victim role.
 
K

KingK

Member
It doesn't help that Cersei's actress has consistently been like the worst.

edit: though to be clear, I definitely thought that scene was a rape and that's on the director.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Fiction said:
Sorta creeps me out that the directors of the scene thought that would be seen as consensual by anyone, much less their entire audience :/
Click to expand...
You know, he mentioned in interviews he wasn't going to be back in S5 due to scheduling conflicts.

I wonder if that was just a polite euphemism.
 
S

Speevy

Banned
Well, the first thing that happens in the scene is that Cersei kisses Jaime. She first intends to go farther, but then stops. Then the confusing parts ensue.
 
P

Paganmoon

Member
XAL said:
It is defnitely rape on the tv show, but it was definitely not rape in the books.

GRRM just issued a statement saying that the show's depiction of that scene is divergent from the
Click to expand...

Source on the statement?


On the daario scene, I kept picturing old-daario in my head, scene got even better then.
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
BOOK SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD! BOOK SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD! BOOK SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD! BOOK SPOILERS IN THIS THREAD!

Can't they use CGI to put Old Daario's head on the the new Daario?

At the very least I'd like to see some fans try that with gifs.
 
G

-griffy-

Banned
bishopcruz said:
Oh I agree, which is odd because Graves keeps talking about how much work went into it, how he wanted the blocking, planning for it days in advance and the like. I honestly think he just didn't SEE how bad it was coming off because he already knew what he wanted to come across in the scene. Knowing what the directorial intent was, I see what he was going for, it was supposed to be a violent, nasty power game between two fucked up individuals. But the way it's shot and shown places Cersei in the victim role.
Click to expand...
To be fair, when he talks about the scene, he isn't just talking about the sex part but the entire thing from when Tywin is talking to Tommen through to Jaime arriving and then the sex. It's all one long, uninterrupted scene that they would have blocked all out as one. It's only a new scene when location changes or time jumps ahead, so that is all one scene. So it's actually quite a complicated scene in that regard as the dynamics of it radically shift as different characters exit and enter.

Let's also not pretend like this is some shoddy director who is just bad at his job. The rest of the episode was great, he directed last week's to great success which was a major one (and again had an even more exceedingly difficult scene in the wedding reception, which was essentially a single 30 minute scene featuring every character in King's Landing), and has directed several other episodes. He's an in demand TV director who is frequently called in to direct pilots for new shows because he is good at his job. He directed over 30 episodes of the West Wing.

So he misjudged a single scene in this episode. He certainly isn't the first director to do something like that.
 
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