It kind of is, actually. That's kind of what the 'personal' adjective accomplishes. Objective canon just means I can't presume that other people hold to my Canon, not that I'm obligated to hold to another. The show isn't a story I'm (and most casual star wars) going to see, so for us, mauls story ends there. Besides, it doesn't dismiss his point that maul was misused in the films. Even if he was used better later, that doesn't change.
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Unpopular Star Wars Opinions
- Thread starter jeremy1456
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Midichlorians bothered me simply because it kind of shattered my belief that anybody could possibly become a Jedi with the right amount of training, at least with how the OT kind of handles it.
The prequels instead kind of turned it into "nope, you can't be a Jedi because you don't have enough religion molecules in you"
The prequels instead kind of turned it into "nope, you can't be a Jedi because you don't have enough religion molecules in you"
That's not how the OT handles it at all though. It's never implied anywhere that anyone can use the Force. The only "new" people we get to see using it are Luke and possibly Leia in ESB when she hears Luke calling out for her, and they're both descendants of someone who already can use the Force ("The Force is strong in my family..."); if they wanted to show that anyone could do it with enough training I'm sure Han would've done something in RotJ.
Lucas changed his mind on the subject over time because he did once state back in the day that anybody could use it with enough training, but the movies and the subsequent EU never supported that.
I am not and never have been bothered by the Ewoks.
Zahn's books are overrated and the Ysalmari are up there with Midichlorians as one of the stupidest plot devices in star wars history.
But doesn't that then subvert the fact that the Force is supposed to bind and surround "ALL living things?"
Zahn's books are overrated and the Ysalmari are up there with Midichlorians as one of the stupidest plot devices in star wars history.
But doesn't that then subvert the fact that the Force is supposed to bind and surround "ALL living things?"
KidGalactus
Member
Prequels are awful. Original trilogy is not much better, just feels more earnest.
cyberheater
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Jar Jar was the least of that films problems.
If you go based off of how A New Hope handles it, it kind of implies that anybody could become a Jedi simply because Luke goes from a random farm boy to Jedi in training who destroys the Death Star. That and Obi-Wan straight up says The Force is something that flows through all living things. That's always how I've interpreted it. I know that gets muddied a bit by the sequels but that's a biproduct of Lucas making up shit as he went along.
I never got that presumption. Luke was obviously better with the force than anyone else. "The Force is strong with you." implies it's weak with others. And Luke wasn't trained much, if at all. And if anyone could be strong in the force just by doing what Luke does, Han would get on that shit the moment he saw it works. Everyone would. What kind of maniac would see they could develop telepathy with an afternoons practice and not do it. The only explanation even offered was when Vader revealed who Lukes daddy was.
Lastly, it's not like the midiclorians eliminate that explanation. Everyone could have them and just need to train them. Anakin could just have had a shit load compared to others, but that doesn't mean others have none.
I don't think any film before or since has introduced a better world than Star Wars did. As a movie, sure, other films are better (you'll never find any Star Wars movie listed in the best 50 movies of all time). But what Lucas created transcends all the pacing issues, the boring sections, the bad acting at parts, etc.
Favorite is Return of the Jedi.
Best is A New Hope.
Empire Strikes Back is WAY WAY WAY OVERRATED.
1 - ANH
2 - RotJ
3 - TPM
4 - ESB
5 - RotS
6 - AotC
Force Awakens will suck because JJ Abrams does not understand what makes Star Wars good, he only understands what looks cool and is apart of "cool kids group" that think ESB is the only good Star Wars.
I am happy that George Lucas is not 100% out of the picture. There would be NO Star Wars without him.
Millenium Falcon =/= Star Wars. It was a big part of the original trilogy but not the main part of Star Wars.
Yep, Hayden can't act but it kind of accurate portrays Anakin as kid who grew up with so much power and little control...trying to be cool and calm but failing hard at it.
Man...feels good to vent without people jumping down my throat saying I am trying to troll cause I have opinions.
Best is A New Hope.
Empire Strikes Back is WAY WAY WAY OVERRATED.
1 - ANH
2 - RotJ
3 - TPM
4 - ESB
5 - RotS
6 - AotC
Force Awakens will suck because JJ Abrams does not understand what makes Star Wars good, he only understands what looks cool and is apart of "cool kids group" that think ESB is the only good Star Wars.
I am happy that George Lucas is not 100% out of the picture. There would be NO Star Wars without him.
Millenium Falcon =/= Star Wars. It was a big part of the original trilogy but not the main part of Star Wars.
Yep, Hayden can't act but it kind of accurate portrays Anakin as kid who grew up with so much power and little control...trying to be cool and calm but failing hard at it.
Man...feels good to vent without people jumping down my throat saying I am trying to troll cause I have opinions.
If it's a problem, it's a problem stemming from the original trilogy and EU, not the prequels. Midichlorians just give a reason for why some people are Force sensitive and some aren't, whereas it used to just be "well....that's just the way it is!"
I find it hard to believe that Han, who thinks the Force is nothing but a "hokey religion" in ANH, would not have started using the Force in the EU considering his wife and brother-in-law* and kids were Jedi if the idea was that anybody could use it.
*edited because I originally said "best friend" but clearly Chewie is his best friend
BattleMonkey
Member
Midichlorians and TPM were not that bad. TPM feels disconnected from the saga and more like a stand alone film, but outside of some problems with stuff like Jar Jar and bad kid acting, the film was a fun adventure film. Far better than the crap fests of ep2 and 3
They don't even do that iirc. All they say is that Anakins midiclorian count is high, correct? And that means he's strong in the force?
Okay, so let's assume midiclorians don't cause force, but instead ate just attracted to force sensitive people. If that's the case, all midiclorians are is a sciency way of saying is someone is strong with the force vs just sensing it.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
I look at the prequels as a deconstruction of the Jedi concept. A big part of it was them revealing that there was a scientific reason behind the force and the Jedi were full of shit. The original Star Wars movies were mostly based around faith and the prequels shatter that notion (along with a whole lot of other things about the Jedi).
Spiritreaver
Member
Glad to see ROTJ getting more love. Just wish more people loved Battle of Endor (space) as much as I did. The music is amazing, and seeing the Rebels go from being gravely outnumbered and decimated to taking down a Super Star Destroyer is great.
Even if you hated the ground battle and the Ewoks, it was pretty well blended in with the duel and the space battle, so the action was always there and things were always tense. It's such a great movie.
Even if you hated the ground battle and the Ewoks, it was pretty well blended in with the duel and the space battle, so the action was always there and things were always tense. It's such a great movie.
ersocaster
Member
Machete Order is the worst thing to ever happen to Star Wars next to redlettermedia.
The exclusion of the one or two plotholes related to EP. 1 are offset by the hordes of them introduced in dismissing the episode.
When Yoda informs Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon has learned to speak from the dead, how are we supposed to know who he is?
When Dooku mentions his affiliation with Qui-Gon, why does that suddenly make Obi-Wan upset if we do not know their history?
When Anakin goes to save his mother, why should we care at all? We know nothing about his mother, or why she could have been in trouble in the first place.
What's the point of the Clone Army? Who are these "Separatists" everyone hates, and where did they come from?
Episode 1 sets up every major event in Star Wars. If anything, plot-wise, it is one of the most important chapters in the saga. Machete order is an attempt to watch the movies for shock value only, irregardless of its impact on the story and the relationships of the characters. Why should you care about any of the characters if you are not properly introduced to them? How is Anakin's fall from the Jedi of any significance if you do not understand the emotional turmoil he went through as a kid? His relationship to Padme is synonymous with his relationship with his mother. He failed his mother, he failed to save her after abandoning her on Tatooine, and that makes his desire to save Padme exponentially greater, which fuels his fall from the Jedi.
Union Carbine
Member
Right or wrong, I always go back to the films as opposed to any extended canon.
TPM feeling disconnected is more a failing of ep 2 though.
We go from Anakin being kind, caring, and optimistic to nearly a decade later when he's a full jackass, skipping over every event that could have made him that way. Instead of getting to see any relevant character development, we see every single personality trait or talent (except piloting) get discarded before the film begins.
shinobi602
Member
I liked the prequels.
I like that Machete order but I always toyed with this order...
IV - Talk about Clone Wars and ends w/victory
I - II - Oh look, it is the Clone Wars!
V - Luke continues training like Dad did and at crossroads
III - His father turning bad and what could happen to his loved ones if he did.
IV - Him actually turning good and its "redeeming power"
Haven't watched it like this so I don't have it fleshed out like the other guy.
IV - Talk about Clone Wars and ends w/victory
I - II - Oh look, it is the Clone Wars!
V - Luke continues training like Dad did and at crossroads
III - His father turning bad and what could happen to his loved ones if he did.
IV - Him actually turning good and its "redeeming power"
Haven't watched it like this so I don't have it fleshed out like the other guy.
The line in TPM itself isn't that clear:
QUI-GON : Life forms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist, and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to you, telling you the will of the Force.
I think Lucas sort of left it not completely answered on purpose. This is a pretty interesting article though because it details a lot of Lucas's thoughts on midichlorians and the Force and shows that early on he did want it to be structured so that anyone could use the Force, but that at the same time some people/beings were better with it than others. http://www.starwars.com/news/so-what-the-heck-are-midi-chlorians
UtterlyPerplexed
Member
The Anakin and Obi-Wan fight at the end of Revenge of the Sith is dumb.
I don't understand the Boba Fett love.
I don't understand the Boba Fett love.
Lucas was involved with TCW, even prior to the Disney acquisition and their declaration of what is and isn't new canon it was already considered to be on level with the movies.
ersocaster
Member
I always assumed midichlorians were added to help support Anakin's origin story.
Quotation from Qui-Gon talking to Mace Windu and Yoda:
"A boy. His cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have seen in a life-form. It was possible he was concieved by the midi-chlorians."
Quotation from Qui-Gon talking to Mace Windu and Yoda:
"A boy. His cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have seen in a life-form. It was possible he was concieved by the midi-chlorians."
He has a jetpack and a badass helmet.
So the midiclorians are the middle men to the force.
The bigger question, if they are their own species, why do they care or bother with communication on behalf of others at all. Lucas says it's a symbiotic relationship but how? (I didn't read the whole article, I'm on my phone, so maybe it was answered).
Badass silent dude with a cool looking helmet. And Darth Vader has to warn Boba Fett specifically about "NO DISINTEGRATIONS", which implies that Vader has both relied on Fett before and that Fett will absolutely super-murder you if necessary.
So if Joe Smith who happens to be a psychopath orders the same gear Boba got, he's just as cool?
This is so very, very wrong my friend.
No.
Trek/Wars comparisons always felt very apples and oranges to me. They're really different franchises that simply happen to have "Star" in the titles
Nah, he is very very very right.
spookyfish
Gold Member
I agree, but I think is what was intended, under the surface. It showed the Jedi in their "prime," where they had become complacent and "explained away" the Force. The council didn't even want to entertain the notion of a prophecy; they had grown beyond that. They didn't NEED the mystical side of it; it had been conveniently explained away.
All this is to say, I'm not sure Lucas presented the idea of midichlorians as a GOOD thing. He was showing an organization that had grown beyond the need of believing. They had everything explained.
"I do not believe the Sith could have returned without us knowing." But they did.
"I think it's time to reveal that our ability to use the Force has diminished." Why is that?
Because Lord knows Vader never made a bad decision in his life. And that is not what you said literally the last post. But fine, Vader vouched so he must be very vicious and all...
Hey, I forgot, how was it that he died in the movies?
Glass Shark
Banned
The original Star Wars is better than The Empire Strikes Back. It is a nearly flawless film in every imaginable way.
Professor Beef
Banned
It doesn't matter in the least who shot first between Greedo or Han.
Because Lord knows Vader never made a bad decision in his life. And that is not what you said literally the last post. But fine, Vader vouched so he must be very vicious and all...
Hey, I forgot, how was it that he died in the movies?
Vader gave Fett the rub while Vader was in the prime of his badassery in the middle of ESB when he was choking out admirals and captains who failed to mix his coffee and sugar the right why. Someone in their prime viciousness telling someone else to hold up on being so vicious = that second dude must be pretty vicious.
This is so wrong.
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Episode II was pretty enjoyable in what we got, but the biggest problem with it is that it's the greatest example of the whole story outline >>>>>>> story representation problem that both trilogies have. Biggest problem being Dooku and his story relevance being under-explained. Did you know he was Qui-gonn's master? Did you catch that his Sith title was Darth Tyranus, which they refuse to refer to him as outside of one or two lines for some reason? Did you know he was a prominent and well respected member of the Jedi Order?
Episode II and The Clone Wars series should have switched places, IMO. Clone Wars feels more relevant, while Episode II feels like a side story by comparison.
I don't know. I guess I just don't see viciousness as really that badass. Skill is badass, just the tendency to hurt people is not. You can be badass if you are very skillful at hurting people but Fett didn't really demonstrate that. You want viciousness, go to Somalia and offer a guy $50 if he stabs some random kid. It's not that impressive.
Besides, Vader told his minions to bring people alive literally in his first scene. He does it whenever he needs them alive. It's hardly unprecedented. Are all those stormtroopers such badasses too, or do they need to order the armor for that? And Boba Fett is a mercenary. I was already assuming that he was killing his way through life. I mean, why wouldn't he? That's what mercenaries do. I'd be more surprised if mercenaries in Star Wars don't kill routinely.
Union Carbine
Member
It's irrelevant to me. I just look at what's in the films.
PdotMichael
Banned
EU sucks and the canon circlejerking is annoying.
The only thing that bothers me about Midichlorians is that it is very obviously based on our mitochondrial DNA. The name is even similar! Not very creative...
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