It's probably more fair to say that Nintendo has tried on several occasions to market Metroid in a big way (Super, Prime 1 and Other M being the more obvious examples), and it hasn't gotten them much in the way of a bigger following. It has the critical clout, but it's never moved the needle much past B-tier sales.
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Unseen 64: Metroid Series Development Insights (Prime Hunters, Metroid Dread)
- Thread starter Glowsquid
- Start date
It's probably more fair to say that Nintendo has tried on several occasions to market Metroid in a big way (Super, Prime 1 and Other M being the more obvious examples), and it hasn't gotten them much in the way of a bigger following. It has the critical clout, but it's never moved the needle much past B-tier sales.
They have the money to do whatever they want. That doesn't mean they're just going to throw it out the window.
if nx comes next year and we don't see a new metroid from retro for the 30th anniversary of the series, then i think the bitching about federation force will be justified.
right now, it's a game that resembles what triforce heroes is - something to fill in a slot for a release date until the next really big thing hits.
The thing is that Metroid Prime is the top selling game of the franchise, hunters and Other M are at the bottom, not to mention the critical reception, it's not rocket science what they should do with the franchise.
Well the guy in charge of Metroid actively wants to ignore Prime and refuses to take any decent ideas from it. So what do you think's gonna happen?
When Sakamoto takes one idea from any of the Prime games and puts it into his own without completely misunderstanding and demeaning it. So far, he hasn't done that. And looking at Other M, he had ample opportunity to do so but chose to ignore it for the sake of "change" for his "Ultimate" Metroid game. He is not the creator of Metroid or Samus Aran but he sees himself as both.
In honesty? Sakamoto probably doesn't want to be on the franchise anymore and Nintendo would probably not allow it to begin with, but there is really no one to fill the void he is leaving, my bet is in a long hiatus with a few spin offs here and there like Federation Force to test the waters.
In the same articles he says that he is not the one who came up with the metroid concept.
He doesn't consider himself the creator of Metroid. Just another guy in the development team who directed the game.
Green Mamba
Member
The Seeker Missiles are in Other M and they originated in Prime 2. Other M also uses the Prime's series' Super Missile mechanics. The visuals of the first person view in Other M are plainly inspired from Metroid Prime, and it even uses the same exact sound effect for Beam Charging as Prime does. The visuals of the 3D Morph Ball with the hollow line through the center where light emerges from when moving are taken from Prime.
Zero Mission also uses Prime's Chozo theme as its own Chozo theme, and the new "Chozo Ruins" area from Zero Mission is pretty plainly inspired from Prime. Samus's fully powered Varia Suit is a combination of Super's and Metroid Prime's.
The stories might be ignored, but there's definitely some aspects of Prime in Zero Mission and Other M.
What? Are we just making up numbers to feel better suddenly?
It was less than 2.5 years between the NES and the first Zelda
Exactly a year between the SNES and LttP
Slightly more than 2 years for Ocarina of Time
Just over a year for Wind Waker from the GC launch.
Day and Date for Twilight Princess on the Wii
Baron von Loathsome
Member
I think he means five years of development time.
Mass Effect
Member
I think he meant it takes 5 years between each console Zelda?
Metroid Prime 1 was a creative outlet for Miyamoto who originally thought about having Zelda64/Ocarina of Time in the first person view because of hardware limitations but Koizumi wanted players to see Link's model. Miyamoto has been heavily involved in 3D games since Star Fox on the SNES and Nintendo 64, so the 2D NSMB series fills Miyamoto's 2D needs, while the Prime games have an interesting perspective in 3D that other games he's worked on don't have.
If Metroid: Other M had sold really well, it might have pushed Nintendo to produce a followup, but at the time of Other M's release Sakamoto didn't have plans for another Metroid game.
Video Games take at least 1 year to make, and often take 2-3 years to develop, and that's a long time to spend on one project. Sakamoto was invested in Other M on Wii and hadn't had the chance to even look into 3DS hardware at the time. Development has a lot to do with the creative people behind a series being available to make it. Nintendo doesn't just employ a thousand people to annualize a game, or completely outsource it without creative control. Often like Super Metroid, Other M, and Ocarina of Time, directors and producers like Sakamoto and Miyamoto put there all into a game during those years, and don't keep working on the same kind of thing year after year and move on to something else until the next time comes. Retro Studios was focused on Metroid Prime along with Kensuke Tanabe, and Metroid Prime 2 and 3 made a lot of sense to follow up the first game with its sales and the work the put in that they could reiterate on, making an unplanned trilogy before moving on.
Super Mario Bros. and The Legend of Zelda were in development at the same time by the same team, and ideas for either game was developed while working on the other. Super Mario Bros. came out first as the last great Famicom game in 1985 as development was suppose to move the Disk System, while Zelda came out as a launch title for the Famicom Disk System in 1986. Miyamoto wanted to make sequels right away so the SMB/Zelda team worked on either The Lost Levels, Doki Doki Panic/SMB2, or SMB3, while another team under Miyamoto's direction and design concepts made Zelda II: The Adventure of Link that released in 1987 for the FDS. Zelda III was in development as early as 1989 with the original intention of returning to the first game's style and released for the Super Famicom in 1991 in Japan, and 1992 in NA as "Zelda: A Link to the Past". Link's Awakening (1993) was Takashi Tezuka's project with about half the staff from ALttP, while 1998's Ocarina of Time was the real sequel to ALttP.
The original 3 Metroid games weren't made one after the other. Metroid came out in 1986 in Japan for the Famicom Disk System, then in 1987 for the NES in NA, then Metroid II: Return of Samus on Game Boy came out in 1991 in NA, and 1992 in Japan. Super Metroid was made because Makoto Kanoh told Yoshio Sakamoto that he should make a Metroid for the SNES hardware because Metroid was popular in North America. http://www.nowgamer.com/the-making-of-super-metroid/
Metroid skipped the Nintendo 64 era because:
- Sakamoto had made Super Metroid to end the story.
- Sakamoto and R&D1 were involved on Game Boy Color and a Metroid game would look poor compared to the SNES version.
- Sakamoto and R&D1 were focused on portables for GBC and didn't have experience with 3D on Nintendo 64.
- Nintendo approached a developer to make a Metroid 64 but were turned down because the developer didn't think they could make a game that lived up to the quality of Super Metroid.
The producer of the Metroid Prime series, Kensuke Tanabe, is busy with Metroid Prime: Federation Force and said it would take 2-3 years to develop a Metroid Prime for HD consoles and by then it'd be for NX. Retro Studios was busy with Donkey Kong Country games with Kensuke Tanabe. (Kensuke Tanabe was also involved in Paper Mario: Sticker Star that Miyamoto gets all the blame for) Tanabe also commented that Sakamoto is in charge of 2D Metroid and doesn't know when he'll have an announcement.
Sales data like these are liable to be misunderstood. Take for instance the sales of each entry of Metroid Prime series.
The first one was the best selling one not because it was the return of legendary galactic bounty hunter Samus Aran, but because at first glance it looked like impressive space shooter like HALO and the like. The sales that matter are those of Prime 2 and 3, which are similar to other Metroid games and show that the beginners who didn't like the first game dropped the series after noticing the first game was about exploring and shooting doors open.
A new Prime will only grab the waning audience of 30 year-olds Metroid fans. The series has to undergo a new shift in order to catch new fans and justify the development. Other M tried to do this but its appeal didn't get across to new audiences, and the old fans didn't like the shift in tone and gameplay - so nobody liked it at the end. The series needs a reboot and a redesign fit for this day and age. Kids and teenagers have to get crazy about Metroid and for that it needs a fresh start; it cannot be something only for the 30 year olds that have played all the previous games.
The two GameCube Pikmin games have less combined sales than the two GameCube Prime games, with Pikmin 2 selling a about as many copies as Prime 2.
Yet we have a HD Pikmin 3. Clearly it's not money that's the issue. The real reason why nobody's making a new Metroid (bar a spinoff) is that, as mentioned before, there really isn't a team at Nintendo to make one. Pikmin 3 was an EAD passion project; if they weren't willing to do it, nobody would have.
Nintendo seems plenty content to toss money out the window.
Yet we have a HD Pikmin 3. Clearly it's not money that's the issue. The real reason why nobody's making a new Metroid (bar a spinoff) is that, as mentioned before, there really isn't a team at Nintendo to make one. Pikmin 3 was an EAD passion project; if they weren't willing to do it, nobody would have.
How did Bayonetta 2, Wonderful 101, and Devil's Third get funded then?
Nintendo seems plenty content to toss money out the window.
That's why there were tons of negative reviews for Prime from those disgruntled FPS fans.
Wait, no there weren't. You're bullshitting.
The actual reasons Prime sold better than Prime 2? Way better marketing, easier gameplay for newcomers, and being a GameCube bundle. Also, it didn't have the misfortune of releasing the same week as Halo 2 and Half-Life 2.
Prime 2 was also a weaker game with tacked-on local only multiplayer, and came out during a dead period in the GameCube's lifespan. It would have been more polished without the multiplayer, but I dunno if that would've resulted in better sales.
I'm not sure what you're arguing with Bayo 2 and Wonderful 101 comparisons. If anything the sales of those games are arguments against Nintendo investing in hardcore niche franchises.
Because Nintendo still funded them even though everyone and their mother predicted the Platinum games would bomb and Devil's Third will bomb.
So how on Earth does the argument that "Nintendo isn't making a traditional Metroid because the series doesn't sell" applicable? Even a Metroid game with disappointing sales (Prime 2) still makes far more money than those. A 2D handheld Metroid would cost far less than a HD Platinum game or Pikmin, yet apparently Nintendo's worried with wasting money on that?
Sure, you could argue "Nintendo shouldn't make hardcore niche games that aren't guaranteed to sell well," but Nintendo clearly isn't listening to that. And I guarantee when they reveal the NX, we'll see more of those hardcore niche games that probably won't sell well.
I honestly wouldn't pin sales on quality; Prime 2 still got great reviews. The main quality complaint I could see is that the game is much less friendly to new players than Prime, with harder bosses, harder to navigate levels, lots of backtracking, etc.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
This is certainly the weirdest way to ask for a new game.
You don't need to write negative reviews. It was 2002 and the gaming community was not as developed as today. Also, the best review is the silent one: not buying a game. There are more players that those on gaming forums. The actual reasons... lol you serious? Do you even know how this industry works?
It's obvious why Nintendo doesn't want to make more Metroids. They obviously make more Pikmin games and merchandise because they get make enough money to justify the development costs. It's a company, not a charity. If something makes them earn more money, they won't stop doing it.
Look at what happened with Fire Emblem from New Mystery of the Emblem to Fire Emblem Fates. It's all about the money.
I'm counting on you to deliver what Nintendo can't. The entire state of Metroid is just sad.
Yeah, both had a lot of references to prime. I don't think he has any animosity towards prime, he just wants to do his own thing as well.
Also, where's the narrative that Prime 1 had more/better marketing than Prime 2? I remember seeing a ton of commercials for it during the World Series that year. All the news sites were buzzing about it because the first one was so critically acclaimed. When your console's userbase isn't growing, a sequel isn't necessarily going to drive more sales. That's less an indication of the game's success/quality and more an indication of the Gamecube's gradual decline into irrelevance.
Yeah, I worded it poorly. I meant it takes 5 years to get a mainline console zelda game.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
I honestly think Pikmin 3 is a Miyamoto whim project. Iwata and Miyamoto probably decided to devote major EAD resources to one "niche" franchise, and Miyamoto picked Pikmin 3. I would have rather had F-Zero or a real Pilotwings.
Not always. It's a mysterious thing of how and when Nintendo decides to fund one of these portfolio projects. A game that they feel might change the perception of the system, or "attempts" to pander to an outside demographic.
And as soon as they announce what you want you'll come running back, very fickle. How about people try not throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I don't think Nintendo's putting a lot of money into Devil's Third. Platinum games were about bringing a more dedicated audience to the Wii U at a time when it wasn't clear just how bad the Wii U was going to do. Now that we do know how bad the Wii U is doing, throwing a Metroid game on Wii U means it'll be more expensive than Prime 2 and could easily sell far less.
Undoubtedly. That's why a game like Pikmin 3 can be made: Because it's a passion product.
Hilariously, that might be the reason Federation Forces is the only Metroid game we'll be seeing any time soon; it's Tanabe's passion project.
You are seriously suggesting the sequel to one of the most acclaimed games of all time had lower sales not because it had much less advertising, not because it released at the same time as two of the most popular science fiction shooters ever, not because it wasn't bundled with the system, not because it was much less easy to get into than the first game, but because more than half the people who bought Metroid Prime secretly didn't like it.
Do you understand why that sounds ridiculous?
Pikmin is not a money-making franchise. The first two games had decent sales for Gamecube games (Again, Pikmin 2 sold about as much as Prime 2), and there's barely any merchandise.
The reason Pikmin 3 was made was because it was something Miyamoto and EAD wanted to make. There is nobody in Nintendo who wants to make a traditional or Prime-styled Metroid right now.
Oh definitely there's no point to putting a HD Metroid on the Wii U. If fucking Donkey Kong couldn't make it after amazing Wii sales, no way Metroid would.
I just think it's ridiculous to say the reason they didn't make a HD Metroid for the Wii U (Or a handheld Metroid) is because Nintendo thought it wouldn't make money, because clearly they were willing to throw away money a few years ago. And they will probably throw a bunch of money on hardcore niche games again with the NX.
Yeah, the lack of Metroid is definitely more of a "who will make it" then a "it won't sell enough" problem. It's one of the more prestigious Nintendo series (critically), and I doubt they want to outsource it to some small developer, the internal teams are too busy, and large external developers generally have better things to do. Except for Next Level apparently, but they're been looking at a Metroid project for awhile. Things like Bayonetta and Devil's Third aren't really comparable because while they do take money, they don't take up much manpower from Nintendo.
Oh sure, when the NX comes out they're going to be trying to get as many people on board with hardcore and casual games alike, rather than trying to squeeze as much as they can from Wii U and 3DS right now with as little cost. I don't think sales are the sole reason, and I even expect we'll see a traditional Metroid game again. I just think it makes Nintendo a little more hesitant to greenlight than they might with other series.
I don't think Nintendo is capable of delivering a good Metroid game anymore. I think they're done.
I guess we'll just see. No pressure.
If they put out a good Metroid game I'd buy it. I just don't think they ever, ever will. If Sakamoto is involved it'll be shitty, and he cares too much to not be involved. A good Metroid game will require people in charge who understand Metroid and why fans loved it -- with no influence from Sakamoto. I don't see that ever happening.
That's probably why they've outsourced every chance they get. They either have no interest or are simply incapable of making one given the company's current structure, leadership and goals.
Hell, I don't think Retro Studios will be allowed to make anything close to resembling Metroid Prime, regardless of what franchise they take on. Iwata's Nintendo simply doesn't want to make games that look like they could be cool or could be misconstrued as non-kid friendly. Prime 3 really felt like the last in a legacy line.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
direct_quote
Member
So have a lot of us. That wait was pretty terrible and why should we have to go through it again?
I'm sorry, but I missed the part where Nintendo made Bayonetta 2.
I'm entitled to my feelings.
Shikamaru Ninja
任天å ã® å¿è
Iwata is the one most concerned with the geriatric and older casual audience. Brain-Age, English Training, and several off the software targeting older non-gamers were his ideas. Iwata certainly isn't obsessed over "kids".
Didn't that game fail to meet expectation in Japan? Quite frankly, I've been told that Japanese reception on the game isn't as well loved as it is in the west. I don't know that's true or not (the reception, not the sales) but it would explain why it never got localized.
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
Neff
Member
This is heartbreaking to hear it spelled out like this but obvious in retrospect. The solo mode is really fucking awful.
They published it. Bayonetta 2 is a Nintendo game.
Neff
Member
Guacamelee is the only one that's remotely close to Metroid/Igavania quality imo. The rest are pretty awful.
Those games are still friendly, though. Nintendo simply isn't concerned with a large demographic of the gaming populace, the type of audience that would buy a Metroid game if the game was good enough and they marketed it well enough. The problem is that they don't see much value in it because it doesn't line up with their core vision as a company. Until that vision changes, until those core values shift, Metroid is going to wither and die.
Not a fan of La Mulana?
That one's probably my favorite Metroid-style game after Super Metroid just because of how well it emphasizes the discovery aspect of the genre.