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Unseen 64: Metroid Series Development Insights (Prime Hunters, Metroid Dread)

Iwata's Nintendo simply doesn't want to make games that look like they could be cool or could be misconstrued as non-kid friendly.

You know what, people rightfully pointed at Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third and Fatal Frame and you said Nintendo didn't make them despite obviously endorsing them as they funded and published those games.

But there are some that go through your goalpost.

Those are from the last Fire Emblem lol:
acb.gif

#TeamNoire
Left out the best bits >.>

f7a.gif

And obviously the #FE trailer (expected to be rated M also)

I know that this may feed your underlying narrative that Nintendo as of lately sucks and continues to humiliate and ridicule their once respectable franchises, but that stuff doesn't seem "kid-friendly" to me at all.

And this is Fire Emblem, "internally" made in the first case too.
 

Brickhunt

Member
The fact that nobody's talking about the Hunters part of the video shows how little people care about Hunters. Even the people who don't like it more just don't care for what it is.

With the multiplayer dead, the game might as well not exist.
Yeah. Prime Hunters was pretty much my introduction to the Metroid franchise and turned me into a Metroid fanboy (Too bad it seems I very disconnected from the fanbase). It may had not been a good Metroid game, but it had a stellar multiplayer mode (Seriously, it was essentially Unreal tournament in the DS, a genre that is essentially dead nowadays) and it's campaign was good enough to convince me to buy a Game Cube to try the Prime games. It's the weakest campaign in the Metroid series, but it wasn't a mediocre game. The engine was spectacular for the DS hardware, I can think of very few games that match Hunters.

I love Metroid single player, save for Other M, but I hope that someday Hunter's multiplayer is revisited and expanded. From the first day I saw the Wiimote I was fantasizing about playing a Hunters match in the console with IR aiming. Considering the state of the Fanbase, I guess there is no chance in hell for multiplayer mode in in a eventual MP4.
 

Toxi

Banned
Yeah. Prime Hunters was pretty much my introduction to the Metroid franchise and turned me into a Metroid fanboy (Too bad it seems I very disconnected from the fanbase). It may had not been a good Metroid game, but it had a stellar multiplayer mode (Seriously, it was essentially Unreal tournament in the DS, a genre that is essentially dead nowadays) and it's campaign was good enough to convince me to buy a Game Cube to try the Prime games. It's the weakest campaign in the Metroid series, but it wasn't a mediocre game. The engine was spectacular for the DS hardware, I can think of very few games that match Hunters.

I love Metroid single player, save for Other M, but I hope that someday Hunter's multiplayer is revisited and expanded. From the first day I saw the Wiimote I was fantasizing about playing a Hunters match in the console with IR aiming. Considering the state of the Fanbase, I guess there is no chance in hell for multiplayer mode in in a eventual MP4.
Hunters multiplayer definitely has some great potential; the problem is that nobody at Nintendo would touch a sequel outside of Next Level Games, and they're making Federation Force. NST is gutted, Retro is done with Metroid, and the Japanese studios certainly aren't interested in making a first-person shooter with deathmatch multiplayer.

Plus, Federation Force shows we really are not interested in a spinoff right now, we want a proper Metroid.
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
And at one point, Nick cage was considered worthy of an award for best actor, for a romantic drama no less. Peoples talents and skillsets change with time.
Did you know sakomoto still makes really good games? Do tyou guys think before you comment?
Sakamoto readily admitted that he wasn't any good at 3D games. He gets lost too easily and can't ever navigate the space well. Kind of a funny thing for someone known as the head of a series based on exploration.

He's a 2D game designer. His staff didn't do Metroid on a home console after Super because they had no 3D experience- they stuck with 2D long after everyone else moved to polygons. That's why Retro took over on console while Sakamoto's staff stuck to the handhelds, where 2D was still considered appropriate (things are obviously different now with 2D games enjoying a huge resurgence).

That's also why they partnered with Team Ninja, to help them build a game in 3D and hit the ground running instead of wasting months figuring out the basics.

So yes, Other M was a bit of an anomaly in the sense that it was Sakamoto leaving his comfort zone and attempting to overcome his big weakness with polygonal game design. There's no reason to think a 2D Metroid made by his staff at this point would be anything less than a first rate game, as that's what Sakamoto is natural with. I personally would be more skeptical of a 2D Metroid if Sakamoto weren't involved.

He also did Fusion and Zero Mission which both got critical acclaim and he also worked on other franchises such as Tomodatchi Life, Rhythm Heaven, and WarioWare. The idea that he's some sort of hack that stumbled his way into success doesn't make any sense. It's likely he's a very talented game designer in the business for thirty years who made a bad game. It happens.

Its why I look down on some of the metroid "fans" for basically insulting the guy who possibly made a game in another series that they love. Guy's been at it 30 years and all of a sudden your calling him a hack?
 

mStudios

Member
I mean, Super Metroid is the perfect game in the design aspect. If you don't trust Sakamoto, I don't know what to tell you.
 

Toxi

Banned
I mean, Super Metroid is the perfect game. If you don't trust Sakamoto, I don't know what to tell you.
Sakamoto made Super Metroid over 20 years ago. He also was part of a very different team than the one at SPD today.

I don't trust Sakamoto to work on Metroid right now because the one Metroid game he made in the last decade was a disaster, and many of its flaws were due to his involvement. Maybe if the franchise was healthy I'd be fine with a Sakamoto-led Metroid game, but that's obviously not the case right now.

People seem to take this the wrong way. I'm fine with Sakamoto making games. I love the work he did on Metroid before Other M. I think he's a very skilled developer. And I don't want him anywhere near a new mainline Metroid in the foreseeable future, because holy fuck did I not like the direction I saw in Other M.
 

mStudios

Member
Sakamoto made Super Metroid over 20 years ago. He also was part of a very different team than the one at SPD today.

I don't trust Sakamoto to work on Metroid right now because the one Metroid game he made in the last decade was a disaster. Maybe if the franchise was healthy, but that's obviously not the case right now.

People seem to take this the wrong way. I'm fine with Sakamoto making games. I love the work he did on Metroid before Other M. I think he's a very skilled developer. And I don't want him anywhere near a new mainline Metroid in the foreseeable future.

I do understand your feelings towards Sakamoto, However...
He has made Metroid, Super Metroid, Fusion, Zero Mission and Other M.
1 of 5 game was considered bad. (Other M is not a bad game, just not a good metroid).
If he goes back and see what he did wrong, I guarantee you he can do another master piece.
He making bad game is not the rule, is the exception.

If you take a look at his all his game, only a few can be considered bad games. 3 or less games.

What I often see is that people don't like the way Samus story was told.
If he never told Samus story like that before, is because he never could.
 

mantidor

Member
Sales data like these are liable to be misunderstood. Take for instance the sales of each entry of Metroid Prime series.

The first one was the best selling one not because it was the return of legendary galactic bounty hunter Samus Aran, but because at first glance it looked like impressive space shooter like HALO and the like. The sales that matter are those of Prime 2 and 3, which are similar to other Metroid games and show that the beginners who didn't like the first game dropped the series after noticing the first game was about exploring and shooting doors open.

A new Prime will only grab the waning audience of 30 year-olds Metroid fans. The series has to undergo a new shift in order to catch new fans and justify the development. Other M tried to do this but its appeal didn't get across to new audiences, and the old fans didn't like the shift in tone and gameplay - so nobody liked it at the end. The series needs a reboot and a redesign fit for this day and age. Kids and teenagers have to get crazy about Metroid and for that it needs a fresh start; it cannot be something only for the 30 year olds that have played all the previous games.

I'm not really talking about making another Prime game, I actually would prefer they do not, but exploration and backtracking are the foundation of the whole series, no Metroid game that tries to put that aside is going to be successful.

I also would love a fresh start but that is certainly not what they are doing with Federation Force.
 

Nerrel

Member
False. Sakamoto wanted the game to be 2D movement in a 3D world in the vein of Pandemonium!/Klonoa. It was Team Ninja that insisted the game be fully in 3D.

That doesn't change the fact that they were inexperienced with 3D game design and wanted Team Ninja to help with it specifically, as Sakamoto was a big fan of how Ninja Gaiden played.

Sakamoto

When I was first thinking of the plans for this Metroid game, there were things that I found difficult to get people within Nintendo to understand ....Things like wanting to create a steady 3D space, despite the player scrolling horizontally to progress through it, or wanting to have super-long cinematics, but having them seamlessly integrated with the plot so that the player follows the story while playing. I did think it was hard for people to understand such things when I mentioned them.
...
That's why there was a period when I backed away from that approach myself. During that time, as I wondered 'How am I going to hammer this into shape?', I thought I'd try having a meeting with Team NINJA, since I'd been playing Ninja Gaiden, and it had really changed my impression of 3D games.

Iwata

In what way did your impression of 3D games change?

Sakamoto

Even though the game was very much focused on motion, the controls were simple, and it was actually really comfortable to play. I therefore thought that a team who could create such a game could also make the game I was thinking of a reality.

From the way he talks about it in this and other interviews, everything about 3D game design was foreign to him. Not just the layouts of the world itself, but the character movement and mobility in a 3D space. He chose Team Ninja so they could implement these things in place of of his own staff, who he didn't feel were capable of it.

And the story?

Is it really that much different than Fusion? If this weren't a big-production console release with full voice acting and were instead a 2D game with text bubbles, wouldn't the content feel vaguely the same?


I personally like the storyline involving the disaster on the bottle ship and the military's coverup. It has some errors, but it feels like an appropriate story for the Metroid universe and often hearkens back to the Alien films in a way the Prime series never did.

It's Samus' awkward monologues and sappy droning that really brought everything down. Sometimes the acting was painfully, laughably bad. Some of these monologues may have played out much differently as text windows, where the player can interpret the delivery and inflection themselves.

I'm not saying the story wasn't a disaster overall, just that a 2D title wouldn't approach story the same way. Even another 3D console game probably wouldn't, since the entire premise of this game was that it was a big push to establish Samus' character and backstory.
 

The Giant

Banned
The fact that people think Sakamoto is a hack, because he made a game you didn't like. Just makes most of you Sakamoto haters just a bunch of idots.

I quite enjoyed Other M, had no problems with the story.
 

Jigorath

Banned
It's probably more fair to say that Nintendo has tried on several occasions to market Metroid in a big way (Super, Prime 1 and Other M being the more obvious examples), and it hasn't gotten them much in the way of a bigger following. It has the critical clout, but it's never moved the needle much past B-tier sales.

Didn't Prime 1 sell very well? I know Other M flopped but that game was atrocious so it doesn't surprise me. Super Metroid's failure was a shame but it came out at the tail end of SNES lifecycle, this franchise just can't catch a break.
 

The Giant

Banned
Didn't Prime 1 sell very well? I know Other M flopped but that game was atrocious so it doesn't surprise me. Super Metroid's failure was a shame but it came out at the tail end of SNES lifecycle, this franchise just can't catch a break.


I wouldn't call Other M a flop, when it sold over 1 million worldwide. Sure it took 18 months to reach it. But not a flop.
 

KingBroly

Banned
People give Miyamato shit for supposedly ruining Paper Mario so I'm willing to cut Sakamato some slack, especially considering past pedigree.

Was Miyamoto the one who said 'let's have a battle system in a game where there's almost no point in battling?'

EDIT: And don't source CHARTZ if you're going to talk about sales, seriously. It's not reliable.

EDIT 2: Okay, there we go.
 

Jezan

Member
And Metroid fans especially.
Not only Metroid fans, they actually hate everyone, except the fans of: Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon.
Didn't that game fail to meet expectation in Japan? Quite frankly, I've been told that Japanese reception on the game isn't as well loved as it is in the west. I don't know that's true or not (the reception, not the sales) but it would explain why it never got localized.
One of Nintendo's problems is that they judge the western market by what the japanese market buys (and then NoA fucks it up). Nintendo tried to make Japan love Metroid and they didn't like it. Nintendo stop trying to make Metroid for Japan, they don't like it, the Metroid money is on the west, you idiots.

It was already discussed so many times why fans don't want Sakamoto near Metroid. In summary
He was hand-held for Super Metroid, Fusion was a glimpse of the direction the series was taking, Other M was his fantasy and his ideas were holding Team Ninja back.
 

Nessus

Member
The single biggest problem with Other M was the doors that artificially locked off huge portions of the map. The linearity somehow managed to be even worse than Fusion.

If I could change one thing about the game it'd be to leave all those doors unlocked and make the hint system completely optional. Let me wander, let me figure out where to go by myself. And for people who don't like getting lost, include the locked doors and hints as a difficulty option.

The story problems I think arose almost entirely due to fans in the west and the creators in Japan having very different conceptions of the character.

In the west Samus is fairly explicitly a feminist icon, and I get the strong impression that she isn't viewed that way in Japan, at least not to the same extent. The original choice to make the character a woman in the NES game was more of a "Wouldn't it be funny if we did that?" kind of thing.

Nintendo-produced Metroid games have been far more willing to sexualize her, particularly Zero Mission. And then compare that to how she's depicted in Metroid Prime.

I feel like the plot could have been vastly improved by a slightly tweaked localization. If, for example, her decision to not use her more powerful weapons stemmed from Adam's fear that they might damage the integrity of the space station and endanger the lives of everyone on board.

The idea of exploring themes of motherhood and her projecting that onto the hatchling isn't itself terrible, and that plot thread was well-established in Metroid II and Super Metroid. The execution was just completely awful. Some of the worst localization I've seen from a Nintendo game.

Really it suffered from a lot of the same problems as a lot of generic anime.

That said, I enjoyed the actual gameplay quite a bit. Especially once I figured out the dodge mechanics and I started to feel powerful and agile when facing off against some of the tougher Space Pirate variants.

And in the end I had more fun with Other M than I did with NES Metroid (I say that as someone who owns every game in the series except for Prime Pinball and double dipped when Super Metroid was released on Virtual Console).

I'm interested to see what info Unseen64 alludes to regarding the future of the series.
 

Oddish1

Member
He was hand-held for Super Metroid, Fusion was a glimpse of the direction the series was taking, Other M was his fantasy and his ideas were holding Team Ninja back.

Where are you getting the "he was hand-held for Super Metroid" from? What about Zero Mission? That came out between Fusion and Other M and people don't really seem to have a problem with it.
 
Where are you getting the "he was hand-held for Super Metroid" from? What about Zero Mission?

I'm guessing he means Yokoi (who was very hands-off with Super Metroid from what I've read). Some people still think he was the creative lead behind the series because of that ancient Nintendo Power article, probably a misunderstanding because people didn't really understand the role a producer plays in the creation of a game.

The producer's above the director so he must be the main guy right?

Some of the most rabid fans really hated Other M. For some of them 'criticising' Sakamoto for that game isn't enough. They want to discredit his work in the entire series.
 

mStudios

Member
I'm guessing he means Yokoi (who was very hands-off with Super Metroid from what I've read). Some people still think he was the creative lead behind the series because of that ancient Nintendo Power article, probably a misunderstanding because people didn't really understand the role a producer plays in the creation of a game.

The producer's above the director so he must be the main guy right?

Some of the most rabid fans really hated Other M. For some of them 'criticising' Sakamoto for that game isn't enough. They want to discredit his work in the entire series.

Super Metroid (1994) — Director, Scenario Writer

The director is the one who gets the credit if the game is bad/good. He is the one who takes the final decision.
Just like he gets blame for Metroid Other M being a shitty game, he's the one who gets credit for credit such master piece called Super Metroid 3.
 

xaszatm

Banned
Not only Metroid fans, they actually hate everyone, except the fans of: Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon.

One of Nintendo's problems is that they judge the western market by what the japanese market buys (and then NoA fucks it up). Nintendo tried to make Japan love Metroid and they didn't like it. Nintendo stop trying to make Metroid for Japan, they don't like it, the Metroid money is on the west, you idiots.

It was already discussed so many times why fans don't want Sakamoto near Metroid. In summary
He was hand-held for Super Metroid, Fusion was a glimpse of the direction the series was taking, Other M was his fantasy and his ideas were holding Team Ninja back.

This may be true...well, the first part anyway but I was responding about a person complaining about a lack of Mother 3 localization. Honestly I am of the opinion that Sakamoto can make a Metroid game that everyone who wants a 2D Metroid game wants (for all its faults, Metroid Fusion has some of the best tension in the series and is my personal favorite game of the series) but fans are rather overzealous and extremely unforgiving to even give him a chance.
 
Super Metroid (1994) — Director, Scenario Writer

The director is the one who gets the credit if the game is bad/good. He is the one who takes the final decision.
Just like he gets blame for Metroid Other M being a shitty game, he's the one who gets credit for credit such master piece called Super Metroid 3.

I was paraphrasing the people who still think Yokoi was the creative lead behind the series.
 

GenG3000

Member
You are seriously suggesting the sequel to one of the most acclaimed games of all time had lower sales not because it had much less advertising, not because it released at the same time as two of the most popular science fiction shooters ever, not because it wasn't bundled with the system, not because it was much less easy to get into than the first game, but because more than half the people who bought Metroid Prime secretly didn't like it.

Do you understand why that sounds ridiculous?

You are not looking at the sales and the evolution of the Metroid series from Prime onwards.

You point loses all its strength when you also take a look at Prime 3's sales, which was released years later in a console with a much stronger user base, simpler map design, easier navigation and with heavy emphasis on shooting mechanics, and still fell into the 1 million trend for the series. Again, that means that the 1 million sales are for the 1 million fans that buy each Metroid religiously, with few extra tens of thousands which account for the newcomers for each entry.

Metroid Prime sales were an anomaly because it looked appealing to people beyond the Metroid fanbase and, as you just said, it was bundled, but if the game really was that appealing, this should have had an effect on the sales of upcoming games. It was the first game that lots of people got for the console and despite being that good, it didn't grab that new audience for the sequels. Prime 2 and 3 sales are in the expected figures for the series, and the evolution of Metroid from 2004 to 2010 can be related to the efforts of making the series relevant again. I guess you are familiar with the sales figures of the franchise, so there's little point in pointing out how consistent are the sales of the series and how they have decreasing as the existing fans grow older and does nothing to cater to new audiences.

Nintendo probably was amazed at Prime's sales and they went on to make a new one... only to see it didn't sell as good. They asked themselves, "why did the sales fell into the 1 million and something trend again?" and arrived to the conclusion that, apart from the usual fans, Prime sold among a new audience that got lost from Prime to Prime 2. Prime 3 incorporating more shooting sections and simpler maps is intentional because they wanted to appeal to the shooting audience that got interested in the original Prime in the first place. Then they released Hunters and now Federation Force. The message they got from Prime 2 and 3's decline in sales was clear.

If Nintendo went from releasing 5 main Metroids and two spin offs during 2002-2007, to nothing, it is because it isn't worth the effort anymore. If they really wanted to make Metroid they would have done it by now. They are currently testing waters with Federation Force and trying to open the market up a bit to the 3DS generation and seeing how it goes from there.


Pikmin is not a money-making franchise. The first two games had decent sales for Gamecube games (Again, Pikmin 2 sold about as much as Prime 2), and there's barely any merchandise.

The reason Pikmin 3 was made was because it was something Miyamoto and EAD wanted to make. There is nobody in Nintendo who wants to make a traditional or Prime-styled Metroid right now.

You don't have to print money to make profit from it. Pikmin won't sell millions, but they surely make profit taking into account how much resources they need. They are B-tier games in terms of resources and they are profitable and with reassuring consistent sales (Pikmin 3 with its niche status managed to broke the million goalpost in a 3-million user base console, so that's a feat). And yes, there is merchandise: plushies, CDs, and even short films.

Console Metroid titles have always been triple A games in terms of budget. They expect it to sell accordingly. Remember Reggie talking about how they wanted to make Metroid as popular as Mario and Zelda? The series needed that in order to survive and they couldn't achieve that with neither with Prime 3 or Other M, which were completely different titles in terms of design and experience.

Also, if Miyamoto wants to do it, why wouldn't Iwata let him? They guy has an eye for successful games and his games sell because he is the big name behind it. He is the most famous developer after all. Even his less acclaimed sales have been profitable.

I'm not really talking about making another Prime game, I actually would prefer they do not, but exploration and backtracking are the foundation of the whole series, no Metroid game that tries to put that aside is going to be successful.

I also would love a fresh start but that is certainly not what they are doing with Federation Force.

Well, it can be successful if they market it correctly. Other M could have been successful but the game was made for the wrong audience. It should have been a full reboot of shorts instead of a sequel to Super Metroid, but now the series has lost that train.

Yeah, Federation Force is not a fresh start, it's more of an appetizer.
 
Was Miyamoto the one who said 'let's have a battle system in a game where there's almost no point in battling?'

he was also the one that said "we don't need storytelling in an RPG" and that shitted on the early version of the game for being like TTYD (i.e. a great game) forcing the team to gut the game into the mess that was since release.

While I will never get over that game, Miyamoto subsequently managed to make a masterpiece in Pikmin 3, and his track record is still there, before and after that game or Wii Music.
 

Neff

Member
Its why I look down on some of the metroid "fans" for basically insulting the guy who possibly made a game in another series that they love. Guy's been at it 30 years and all of a sudden your calling him a hack?

Agreed. It's self-defeating and childish behaviour. To many, it's their way or the highway, complete with long-standing temper tantrums years after the fact.
 
Did you know sakomoto still makes really good games? Do tyou guys think before you comment?

He makes good games. he doesn't make good Metroid games. Nicholas cage still makes entertaining movies, but that doesn't mean he now would be a good star for a romantic movie now despite winning many awards for it 20 years ago.

Same thing goes for sakakmoto. Sure, rhythm heaven and tomodachi life are still good, but they're so many orders of magnitude removed from what is needed for a good Metroid which he quite clearly doesn't either have the talent, or the ideas for any more.
 
That doesn't change the fact that they were inexperienced with 3D game design and wanted Team Ninja to help with it specifically, as Sakamoto was a big fan of how Ninja Gaiden played.



From the way he talks about it in this and other interviews, everything about 3D game design was foreign to him. Not just the layouts of the world itself, but the character movement and mobility in a 3D space. He chose Team Ninja so they could implement these things in place of of his own staff, who he didn't feel were capable of it.

Well of course. I would assume that that's why they didn't want to make a 3D game to begin with. But that was the one thing that Team Ninja wouldn't budge on. So you had Sakamoto not budging on the single wiimote control scheme and you had Team Ninja not budging on it being a fully 3D game. Someone should have stepped in at that point and said that isn't going to turn out well.

For me, the game design was far more disappointing than anything they did with the story and with Samus. Sakamoto's biggest mistake, in my opinion, was thinking Team Ninja would be able to make a good Metroid game.

He makes good games. he doesn't make good Metroid games. Nicholas cage still makes entertaining movies, but that doesn't mean he now would be a good star for a romantic movie now despite winning many awards for it 20 years ago.

Same thing goes for sakakmoto. Sure, rhythm heaven and tomodachi life are still good, but they're so many orders of magnitude removed from what is needed for a good Metroid which he quite clearly doesn't either have the talent, or the ideas for any more.

Except that besides Other M, every Metroid game he made previously ranged from really good to absolutely outstanding.
 
Except that besides Other M, every Metroid game he made previously ranged from really good to absolutely outstanding.

And were all over a decade ago. His recent work shows he can't o it anymore. What someone was capable of in the past has little bearing on what they can do 1 or 2 decades later. As sakamoto has made clear.

It's better for everyone if he works on the games he's actually still capable of making good instead of furthering weakening the metroid franchise.
 

Xemnas89

Member
And were all over a decade ago. His recent work shows he can't o it anymore. What someone was capable of in the past has little bearing on what they can do 1 or 2 decades later. As sakamoto has made clear.

It's better for everyone if he works on the games he's actually still capable of making good instead of furthering weakening the metroid franchise.

So because he messed up one game in the series that means he just automatically isn't capable of making a good Metroid anymore? That makes no sense to me. If he were to mess up again I could see your point but as it stands right now we have no idea if he could make another great Metroid game or not.
 
So because he messed up one game in the series that means he just automatically isn't capable of making a good Metroid anymore? That makes no sense to me. If he were to mess up again I could see your point but as it stands right now we have no idea if he could make another great Metroid game or not.

No, you don't get second chances when you single handedly put a series in a deep dark hole for 5 years. Not when up to then, it had been a yearly or biyearly franchise for nearly a decade.

You fuck up, someone else gets a chance and you do something else. Especially when he clearly still has talent for other genres.
It's better for everyone that he works on the next tomodachi life or whatever rather than metroid. That way, that series gets another good entry, and metroid doesn't end up with another abomination ~(... at least, not from him).
Otherwise, tell me please, what is the magic number of bad games he has to release to be thrown off a franchise?
 

KingBroly

Banned
So because he messed up one game in the series that means he just automatically isn't capable of making a good Metroid anymore? That makes no sense to me. If he were to mess up again I could see your point but as it stands right now we have no idea if he could make another great Metroid game or not.

It was a BIG game, though. A lot was at stake with, and he screwed up in the most royal of fashions. I know people bring up it was only one game, but the size of the mistake is very important. It's not something he'll backtrack on, either.
 

Wanderer5

Member
-Metroid Prime Hunters was supposed to have a fully-featured singe player campaign, but time and budget constraints forced them to scrap their original vision and focus on multiplayer.
-The final game's SP campaign was based on the multiplayer design and according to one source, "made at the last minute".

Freaking hell, thanks MP (well guess time and budget too, sigh). What a shame cause a fully featured SP on the go would have been really cool.
 

Xemnas89

Member
No, you don't get second chances when you single handedly put a series in a deep dark hole for 5 years. Not when up to then, it had been a yearly or biyearly franchise for nearly a decade.

You fuck up, someone else gets a chance and you do something else. Especially when he clearly still has talent for other genres.
It's better for everyone that he works on the next tomodachi life or whatever rather than metroid. That way, that series gets another good entry, and metroid doesn't end up with another abomination ~(... at least, not from him).
Otherwise, tell me please, what is the magic number of bad games he has to release to be thrown off a franchise?

Who's to say he didn't learn from the mistakes of Other M? He's made great Metroid games in the past so I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt. By your logic however there's no such thing a second chances. If you mess up with one game you're out.
 
Was Miyamoto the one who said 'let's have a battle system in a game where there's almost no point in battling?'

EDIT: And don't source CHARTZ if you're going to talk about sales, seriously. It's not reliable.

EDIT 2: Okay, there we go.

No, that was all IS. They are not some infallible martyr-figure subjugated by tyrant-king Miyamoto.
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
No, you don't get second chances when you single handedly put a series in a deep dark hole for 5 years. Not when up to then, it had been a yearly or biyearly franchise for nearly a decade.

You fuck up, someone else gets a chance and you do something else. Especially when he clearly still has talent for other genres.
It's better for everyone that he works on the next tomodachi life or whatever rather than metroid. That way, that series gets another good entry, and metroid doesn't end up with another abomination ~(... at least, not from him).
Otherwise, tell me please, what is the magic number of bad games he has to release to be thrown off a franchise?
Oh please
 
No, you don't get second chances when you single handedly put a series in a deep dark hole for 5 years. Not when up to then, it had been a yearly or biyearly franchise for nearly a decade.

You fuck up, someone else gets a chance and you do something else. Especially when he clearly still has talent for other genres.
It's better for everyone that he works on the next tomodachi life or whatever rather than metroid. That way, that series gets another good entry, and metroid doesn't end up with another abomination ~(... at least, not from him).
Otherwise, tell me please, what is the magic number of bad games he has to release to be thrown off a franchise?

Sakamoto must've fucked up even harder with super metroid then, putting the franchise in a deep dark hole for 8 years.
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
Not only Metroid fans, they actually hate everyone, except the fans of: Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon.

One of Nintendo's problems is that they judge the western market by what the japanese market buys (and then NoA fucks it up). Nintendo tried to make Japan love Metroid and they didn't like it. Nintendo stop trying to make Metroid for Japan, they don't like it, the Metroid money is on the west, you idiots.

It was already discussed so many times why fans don't want Sakamoto near Metroid. In summary
He was hand-held for Super Metroid, Fusion was a glimpse of the direction the series was taking, Other M was his fantasy and his ideas were holding Team Ninja back.

I was just reading back on this comment and that is false, it was stated that that gunpei yokoi took a hands off approach to super metroid, he basically let them do whatever the fuck they wanted.
 
Who's to say he didn't learn from the mistakes of Other M? He's made great Metroid games in the past so I think he's earned the benefit of the doubt. By your logic however there's no such thing a second chances. If you mess up with one game you're out.

Why would you keep letting the same person who had a failure repeatedly try again?
How much damage could fresh blood do to the a mainline entry to the series that Other M didn't.Shit, last time we had proper fresh blood on a full on new entry, we got Metroid prime.

There shouldn't be second chances when you have such a catastrophic failure, at least not immediately. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying.

However, I didn't say anything about "out". I absolutely love some of Sakamotos other work. Rhythm Heaven is a brilliant franchise and my younger siblings can't get enough of Tomodachi life.
Tomodachi in particular massively destroys metroid in sales. I'm (and logically from the sales, more people) much happier with him working on one of those series.

We get a great game from Sakamoto , someone else gets a crack at metroid. Everybody wins. (Except for the PR disaster that Federation force is turning out to be, but that's another story).
 

Cheerilee

Member
Sakamoto must've fucked up even harder with super metroid then, putting the franchise in a deep dark hole for 8 years.

Gunpei Yokoi produced Super Metroid in 1994. In 1995 he created the Virtual Boy. General consensus seems to be that he fucked up pretty hard with the Virtual Boy.

Also
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2011/08/feature_what_happened_to_metroid_64
Sakamoto said:
I was actually thinking about the possibility of making a Metroid game for N64 but I felt that I shouldn’t be the one making the game. When I held the N64 controller in my hands I just couldn’t imagine how it could be used to move Samus around. So for me it was just too early to personally make a 3D Metroid at that time. Also, I know this is isn’t a direct answer to your question but Nintendo at that time approached another company and asked them if they would make an N64 version of Metroid and their response was that no, they could not. They turned it down, saying that unfortunately they didn’t have the confidence to create an N64 Metroid game that could compare favourably with Super Metroid. That’s something I take as a compliment to what we achieved with Super Metroid.
 

digdug2k

Member
It's less them cancelling one project for another and more me being confused about what possibly made them think federation force without a mainline game (2d or 3d) alongside it was a good idea.
This doesn't seem like rocket science to me. Federation Force is some game ideas they had in development that they decided to throw the Metroid name on because they thought it would help with sales. From the looks of the E3 demo, they did that weeks, if not days, before E3. Because, as you know, we live in an industry where people commonly ignore amazing games if they don't have a known franchise title on the box. They likely aren't going to develop an entirely separate 2D Metroid just to justfy it (and if they did, it would probably suck because it would be the rushed tie in).
 

Instro

Member
Not only Metroid fans, they actually hate everyone, except the fans of: Mario, Zelda, Kirby and Pokemon.

One of Nintendo's problems is that they judge the western market by what the japanese market buys (and then NoA fucks it up). Nintendo tried to make Japan love Metroid and they didn't like it. Nintendo stop trying to make Metroid for Japan, they don't like it, the Metroid money is on the west, you idiots.

It was already discussed so many times why fans don't want Sakamoto near Metroid. In summary
He was hand-held for Super Metroid, Fusion was a glimpse of the direction the series was taking, Other M was his fantasy and his ideas were holding Team Ninja back.

Not sure what's worse, you thinking that Sakamoto had a minimal role in Super Metroid, or you thinking that Team Ninja post Itagaki is anything less than trash. The game sucked because both sides of the collaboration shitted it up.
 

Nerrel

Member
Some of the most rabid fans really hated Other M. For some of them 'criticising' Sakamoto for that game isn't enough. They want to discredit his work in the entire series.

It's pretty sad considering that Sakamoto really stuck his neck out to make Super Metroid happen. He began development with some members of R&D1 when he hadn't gotten greenlit to make the game.

He was also solely responsible for the beloved SA-X in Fusion:
This time around, the biggest thing was I created an enemy that mimics Samus, called the SA-X.
http://www.metroid-database.com/features/nomsakamoto.php

He added a lot to these games and did a great job of seeing them through to the classics they were. People can hate Other M as much as they want, but I don't understand the fascination with trying to retroactively erase his role in past games.
 
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