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[Rich!]

I have this Sony 21" RGB CRT lying around in my garage right now. I picked it up for £5 from a pretty damn hot european lady in town and I was planning on using it at some point. It's pretty good for 240p content with RGB scart input (as standard here in the UK) but the geometry is fucking wack, goddamn sony CRTs of the 2000 era are shit imo. Anyhow, photos:

should I keep it?

 

[dubc35]

Haha, yeah broken ones. 14"+ in working condition seem to start around $300. It's depends on location too. That's why I'm getting a $5 plebeian CRT.

 

[Rich!]

Haha, yeah broken ones. 14"+ in working condition seem to start around $300. It's depends on location too. That's why I'm getting a $5 plebeian CRT.

woah

my 17" JVC pvm was £60! And that looks like this:

 

[Mega]

Who's buying broken PVMs for $100? There's no one around to fix them!

PVM prices have gotten pretty high, $200-300, but you can find them for under $100 if you look around. Right now on eBay.

Edit: Rich, if you're looking for an improvement there's no point in you buying that PVM (unless it's an HD variant) considering the monitor you already have. The PVM's PQ will be identical and probably worse factoring in age, wear and lower specs.

 

[Vespa]

First post on GAF :3... Hi all...

That Hitachi with it's woodgrain looks so cool. Both are in decent condition, post some pics when you get it running!

 

[NormalFish]

Blizzz has his own OSSC write up out now. Probably my favourite of the bunch, honestly.

https://blz.la/rgb/ossc.html

He also has this diagram showing the number of colors he can distinquish between using the 240p test suite on the Mini vs the OSSC

Thought I'd add these for the lazy:
Resolution switching (Refer to article for detail): https://blz.la/rgb/video/OSSC_Res_Switch.mp4
480i w/ bob deinterlace: https://blz.la/rgb/video/OSSC_480i.mp4

 

[Timu]

Blizzz has his own OSSC write up out now. Probably my favourite of the bunch, honestly.

https://blz.la/rgb/ossc.html

He also has this diagram showing the number of colors he can distinquish between using the 240p test suite on the Mini vs the OSSC

Thought I'd add these for the lazy:
Resolution switching (Refer to article for detail): https://blz.la/rgb/video/OSSC_Res_Switch.mp4
480i w/ bob deinterlace: https://blz.la/rgb/video/OSSC_480i.mp4

In that 1st mp4 I wonder what capture card is being used as mine has the exact same no signal logo when that happens.

I really like the deinterlacing in the 2nd mp4. Bob deinterlacing is one of the best as well.

 

[televator]

Blizzz has his own OSSC write up out now. Probably my favourite of the bunch, honestly.

https://blz.la/rgb/ossc.html

He also has this diagram showing the number of colors he can distinquish between using the 240p test suite on the Mini vs the OSSC

Thought I'd add these for the lazy:
Resolution switching (Refer to article for detail): https://blz.la/rgb/video/OSSC_Res_Switch.mp4
480i w/ bob deinterlace: https://blz.la/rgb/video/OSSC_480i.mp4

Thanks for sharing! I'm gonna be in my room... for a while... reading and looking at graphs.

Edit: hey fish, where did you pull that chart from? I don't see it in the review you linked. I'd like to know the testing background of those results.

 

[NormalFish]

Thanks for sharing! I'm gonna be in my room... for a while... reading and looking at graphs.

Edit: hey fish, where did you pull that chart from? I don't see it in the review you linked. I'd like to know the testing background of those results.

Ah, should've been more clear. That graph is seperate from the article.

I agree that I may be too harsh on the Framemeister in that regard, but it has been such a big issue for me up until the latest firmware update. I will update the text so that it doesn't sound like a bigger difference than it actually is.

Image

That is a graph of the colors I get from the RGB color bar screen of the 240p Test Suite with both the Framemeister and OSSC using my 1CHIP SNES. The OSSC is almost perfect, with only the blue channel being a tiny bit lower than the rest. That's within the natural spread of the video encoder, so it might just be my SNES. The Framemeister (with YCbCr output) on the other hand has quite a bit of difference between the channels. When I set the Framemeister to RGB output it gets even worse, with the green channel being way too high and red and blue a bit too low (Red: 207, Green: 254, Blue: 219). This is with the same console and cables. My settings for the Framemeister are: Brightness = 25, Gamma = 19, Black = 2, A/D Level = 130. That's brighter than the settings FBX recommends.

I just think that the OSSC does a really great job with the colors.

For the 1080p vs 720p comparison I can give you the screenshots I took. (480p and 720p screenshots taken with the SC-500N1 in 4:2:2; 1080p taken with the Elgato HD in lossy 4:2:0)
OSSC: 480p, 720p
Framemeister: 480p, 720p, 1080p

 

[televator]

You're a champ, fish. Thanks!

 

[speedlolita]

I have this Sony 21" RGB CRT lying around in my garage right now. I picked it up for £5 from a pretty damn hot european lady in town and I was planning on using it at some point. It's pretty good for 240p content with RGB scart input (as standard here in the UK) but the geometry is fucking wack, goddamn sony CRTs of the 2000 era are shit imo. Anyhow, photos:

should I keep it?

Get in the service menu and give it a tweak. Those are popular sets among retro gamers. May not compare to a PVM but a perfectly serviceable RGB image either way.

 

[Spiral Insanity]

Are there a model of Sony PVM's that I could connect to a Mac/PC, via VGA/DVI etc?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Are there a model of Sony PVM's that I could connect to a Mac/PC, via VGA/DVI etc?

VGA to RGBHV cable and the proper driver to output 15khz with an AMD video chip.

While certain high end PVM monitors can take 480p 31khz with that same cable, cheap PC VGA monitors can take and display the same signal.

 

[Mega]

Disclaimer: this is not CRT vs HDTV Wars. This is me trying to figure out why my plasma TV and all configurations with it make 480p Wii games look like crap next to my HD-capable CRT.

In regards to Wii games on a 1080p display, I think I tried every combination with the hardware I own and it all falls short of just playing on a 480p capable CRT. The reason I'm bothered by all the HDTV results are that they look not like normal aliasing/jaggies, but like slurry. Every edge and UI element has an uneven, wavy, squiggly, lumpy inconsistency. But why does it look like an uneven mess? Widescreen Wii games are 854 x 480. Perfect for the tablet. But why not a 1920 x 1080p display? It's a 2.25x scale on both width and height.

Anyway, I tried the following:

Wii U set to 1080p so that it handles upscaling
http://i.imgur.com/W4RTlax.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/llNWwqG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nfez7dg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QRgKstd.jpg

Wii U set to 480p 16:9, Panasonic plasma TV handles upscaling
http://i.imgur.com/XVuQeSw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EYQl1U5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6HDpTtS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UMQ2FPm.jpg

Variations of the above through both my receiver with/without passthrough, directly to my TV with Wii U at 480p/1080p. I won't post them all since it basically looks like the same crap as before.
http://i.imgur.com/XVuQeSw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yc2Zv5t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/D0gvNwl.jpg

Wii U set to 480p 4:3, plasma set to 4:3 to fix aspect ratio
I think this may be the best. Setting the console to 4:3 causes a stretched image, but changing the TV setting to 4:3 corrects the aspect ratio. The game is no longer running in widescreen but I did detect possibly cleaner, sharper edges here.
4:3 (slightly better?) vs 16:9

I thought maybe I saw small differences in the various tests but really most were identical as far as my eye and zoomed in pics could see. In motion it's hardly possible to see any difference. I've determined that the Wii U's scaler, my TV's scaler and possibly my receiver's scaler (if it has one and it's doing anything different), are not great at maintaining the integrity of the original picture.

Native 480p on a HD CRT
Pictures don't do it justice, it's not even close which sucks. I want this level of fidelity on my plasma.
http://i.imgur.com/sW9CO9O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pBK9N3g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xfAFZ2V.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B8LvvPK.jpg

This one sums it up. Zoom up on Klonoa's face and see how gross it looks on the plasma in comparison to the organic contours of the CRT.
Klonoa: CRT vs Plasma
Balue: CRT vs Plasma
Opening scene: CRT vs Plasma

 

[NormalFish]

that always looks like filtering to me. I've noticed similar 'smoothness' on certain set ups, though I couldn't tell you what causes it.

Might be a product of scalers in TVs being designed to hide pixelation rather than actually scale perfectly? Just spitballing.

 

[Mega]

that always looks like filtering to me. I've noticed similar 'smoothness' on certain set ups, though I couldn't tell you what causes it.

Might be a product of scalers in TVs being designed to hide pixelation rather than actually scale perfectly? Just spitballing.

The way edges look weirdly angled and blended into each other, instead of neat staircased aliasing, that's what I think as well. It's hideous. The Ultra HDMI N64, which is sitting by my plasma, looks very sharp as far as N64 goes, and pixel perfec...so not a deficiency in the plasma panel itself.

Should also add: between taking all the pictures, I changed from my custom TV settings to Game mode to see if some hidden setting causing the ugliness would be disabled. No improvement.

 

[jerry1594]

I'm looking to get a couple CRT's since the one I have is super bad and not fully functional. I do have a Trinitron but I don't know if it's a decent model and it's not 4:3 and weighs like 100lbs. Mainly I want them to play some boards. I'm in America so SCART is pretty much put of the question. Anyone got any recommends for quality brands and models to keep an eye out for,

 

[Khaz]

More than brands, you should focus on features. Find an SD CRT (not ED/480p) with Component, 4:3, and you should be good. Trinitrons look decidedly different than your typical slot mask TV, so be aware of that too. Pretty much all the modern brands were still around then, if you want a name. There were thousands of different models however, it would be silly to focus on just a few.

 

[Vespa]

Disclaimer: this is not CRT vs HDTV Wars. This is me trying to figure out why my plasma TV and all configurations with it make 480p Wii games look like crap next to my HD-capable CRT.

I found the same thing with all the configs in my house, I hated the IQ I got from my TV, PC flat screen monitors and projector, they just couldn't make 480p looked good. Wii on my PC CRT is amazing and I went from not wanting to play any of the games and hating the console to becoming rather fond of it.

I am curious to see in person how 480p looks on a decent upscaler but haven't had the chance yet.

 

[ResidentDante]

Almost impossible to get PVM's here in Norway. Got an offer for a Sony 9inch one, too tiny or should I bite?

 

[Beer Monkey]

Almost impossible to get PVM's here in Norway. Got an offer for a Sony 9inch one, too tiny or should I bite?

Gameboy games look nice on them.

 

[Mega]

Almost impossible to get PVM's here in Norway. Got an offer for a Sony 9inch one, too tiny or should I bite?

Way too small for practical gaming. Shop around for another brand of RGB CRT.

I found the same thing with all the configs in my house, I hated the IQ I got from my TV, PC flat screen monitors and projector, they just couldn't make 480p looked good. Wii on my PC CRT is amazing and I went from not wanting to play any of the games and hating the console to becoming rather fond of it.

I am curious to see in person how 480p looks on a decent upscaler but haven't had the chance yet.

I'd like to see this too but dunno if I wanna pursue this route for one system, especially considering I have a Wii hooked up to a CRT already. Hmm...

 

[socksfelloff]

I'm looking to get a couple CRT's since the one I have is super bad and not fully functional. I do have a Trinitron but I don't know if it's a decent model and it's not 4:3 and weighs like 100lbs. Mainly I want them to play some boards. I'm in America so SCART is pretty much put of the question. Anyone got any recommends for quality brands and models to keep an eye out for,

We are all running scart in NA. Grab a scart-component converter.

For TV's you should grab a sony Trinitron with component input. If you want something better get a sony pvm/bvm

 

[JLynn]

I'm looking to get a couple CRT's since the one I have is super bad and not fully functional. I do have a Trinitron but I don't know if it's a decent model and it's not 4:3 and weighs like 100lbs. Mainly I want them to play some boards. I'm in America so SCART is pretty much put of the question. Anyone got any recommends for quality brands and models to keep an eye out for,

Sony, Toshiba, and Panasonic are the best. JVC and Mitsubishi aren't too shabby. Stay away from APEX, Sylvania, and the no-name Chinese brands.

 

[Balb]

Almost impossible to get PVM's here in Norway. Got an offer for a Sony 9inch one, too tiny or should I bite?

If the price is really good, I'd consider it for 8-bit games.

 

[Mega]

If anyone is looking for a 13-14" PVM at a pretty good price, quote my post. Seller ships outside the US, which can double the price but it still comes out lower than a lot of the other options out there.

 

[dubc35]

That's a pretty good deal! Most of them I have seen on ebay have $100+ for shipping alone.

It looks like I'm finally getting my $5 CRT tomorrow, lol. At least I have some time tomorrow to test it out. It's been so long since I have played on a CRT I am wondering what my reaction will be.

 

[Item_Screen]

I hope this is the right place to post this. You guys probably have the most technical knowledge on GAF when it comes to this stuff, so this shouldn't be too difficult.

Anyways, I have a snes hooked up to a plasma tv via s-video and I noticed these diagonal lines showing up(no I do not have the yellow cable plugged in). I've done some research and the only answer I can find is that my cable is shit/wired wrong. Is this correct? Is there an easy way to fix the cable or should I just buy a better one? No framemeister or anything, can't afford one yet, so please don't tell me to buy one as a solution.

I found this image that illustrates my problem pretty well. You can see the lines most clearly in the green part of the image. It's driving me CRAZY! So thanks for any help with this.

 

[Timu]

I hope this is the right place to post this. You guys probably have the most technical knowledge on GAF when it comes to this stuff, so this shouldn't be too difficult.

Anyways, I have a snes hooked up to a plasma tv via s-video and I noticed these diagonal lines showing up(no I do not have the yellow cable plugged in). I've done some research and the only answer I can find is that my cable is shit/wired wrong. Is this correct? Is there an easy way to fix the cable or should I just buy a better one? No framemeister or anything, can't afford one yet, so please don't tell me to buy one as a solution.

I found this image that illustrates my problem pretty well. You can see the lines most clearly in the green part of the image. It's driving me CRAZY! So thanks for any help with this.

Oh god, this is one of the reasons I mainly stick with svideo cables that don't have composite on them.

 

[Peltz]

I hope this is the right place to post this. You guys probably have the most technical knowledge on GAF when it comes to this stuff, so this shouldn't be too difficult.

Anyways, I have a snes hooked up to a plasma tv via s-video and I noticed these diagonal lines showing up(no I do not have the yellow cable plugged in). I've done some research and the only answer I can find is that my cable is shit/wired wrong. Is this correct? Is there an easy way to fix the cable or should I just buy a better one? No framemeister or anything, can't afford one yet, so please don't tell me to buy one as a solution.

I found this image that illustrates my problem pretty well. You can see the lines most clearly in the green part of the image. It's driving me CRAZY! So thanks for any help with this.

I feel like this could be due to like... Anything.

Have you tried another S-Video cable? Afaik, they're pretty cheap. I'd start the troubleshooting process there.

See also whether composite does the same thing. It could be due to a shitty upscaler inside of the TV which is why none of the regular posters here connect 240p consoles directly to fixed pixel displays in the first place.

Even a lossless RGB>Component>HDTV connection could look that shitty due to the way most modern sets interpret 240p.

 

[PumpkinSpice]

That's definitely due to the composite connection on the same cable. I have a set of cables like that and they suck. OEM nintendo ones don't have this problem.

 

[geniusbits]

Any thoughts on the 42 inch Mitsubishi AM-4201R?

Bumping myself I know, but to add this is a huge (2nd largest CRT of all time I believe) multisync monitor. Supposedly it scans all the way from 15 to 60 some khz (1024 I believe) and weighs something like 400 lbs. It's probably not worth having but...I might get one that popped up on CL. If I can get it super cheap I'll check it out just for the insane novelty, this is to my mind to the NEC XM what the NEC XM is to Sony PVMs/BVMs.

 

[Item_Screen]

Composite does not have the same effect. I only have the one svideo cable, so I guess I'll buy another one, without composite this time. Thanks.

 

[jerry1594]

Thanks guys. Another question. Reading about monitors I get the idea that EU versions are better than NA and Japan. Why is that?

 

[Madao]

Disclaimer: this is not CRT vs HDTV Wars. This is me trying to figure out why my plasma TV and all configurations with it make 480p Wii games look like crap next to my HD-capable CRT.

In regards to Wii games on a 1080p display, I think I tried every combination with the hardware I own and it all falls short of just playing on a 480p capable CRT. The reason I'm bothered by all the HDTV results are that they look not like normal aliasing/jaggies, but like slurry. Every edge and UI element has an uneven, wavy, squiggly, lumpy inconsistency. But why does it look like an uneven mess? Widescreen Wii games are 854 x 480. Perfect for the tablet. But why not a 1920 x 1080p display? It's a 2.25x scale on both width and height.

Anyway, I tried the following:

Wii U set to 1080p so that it handles upscaling
http://i.imgur.com/W4RTlax.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/llNWwqG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nfez7dg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QRgKstd.jpg

Wii U set to 480p 16:9, Panasonic plasma TV handles upscaling
http://i.imgur.com/XVuQeSw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EYQl1U5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6HDpTtS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UMQ2FPm.jpg

Variations of the above through both my receiver with/without passthrough, directly to my TV with Wii U at 480p/1080p. I won't post them all since it basically looks like the same crap as before.
http://i.imgur.com/XVuQeSw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yc2Zv5t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/D0gvNwl.jpg

Wii U set to 480p 4:3, plasma set to 4:3 to fix aspect ratio
I think this may be the best. Setting the console to 4:3 causes a stretched image, but changing the TV setting to 4:3 corrects the aspect ratio. The game is no longer running in widescreen but I did detect possibly cleaner, sharper edges here.
4:3 (slightly better?) vs 16:9

I thought maybe I saw small differences in the various tests but really most were identical as far as my eye and zoomed in pics could see. In motion it's hardly possible to see any difference. I've determined that the Wii U's scaler, my TV's scaler and possibly my receiver's scaler (if it has one and it's doing anything different), are not great at maintaining the integrity of the original picture.

Native 480p on a HD CRT
Pictures don't do it justice, it's not even close which sucks. I want this level of fidelity on my plasma.
http://i.imgur.com/sW9CO9O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pBK9N3g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xfAFZ2V.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B8LvvPK.jpg

This one sums it up. Zoom up on Klonoa's face and see how gross it looks on the plasma in comparison to the organic contours of the CRT.
Klonoa: CRT vs Plasma
Balue: CRT vs Plasma
Opening scene: CRT vs Plasma

i wanted to point out that Wii games are always 720x480 regardless of screen settings. the image gets squished so that the TV stretches it to the correct ration in 16:9 and does the opposite when played in 4:3 formats. some games add black bars because the image itself isn't adjusted and you get the same picture frame for 4:3 and 16:9 (Skyward Sword and NSMBWii are examples of this).
what this means is that several games actually lose IQ with 16:9 display settings and are better off with 4:3 and black bars.

if i had to guess, my guess is that Nintendo, like usual, screwed up something with Wii scaling in Wii mode. i noticed when i played my regular Wii on my TV and then switched to the Wii U's Wii mode. there was something that looked off.

 

[Timu]

i wanted to point out that Wii games are always 720x480 regardless of screen settings.

This is true, and this comes from someone who captures games on a near daily basis.

 

[Khaz]

Almost impossible to get PVM's here in Norway. Got an offer for a Sony 9inch one, too tiny or should I bite?

9 inches is surprisingly small

Spoiler

that's what she said

Back in 1997 I had a 14" computer monitor, and even then I felt it was too small. I was envious of my friend's 17".

You should consider getting a CRT TV. Big screen for super cheap, with Scart RGB for excellent picture quality. If a Professional monitor is 10/10, a Consumer TV is probably a 9/10. You may not have super-thin scan lines, but the quality is still super impressive in RGB.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I don't have a dedicated upscaler to compare, but my Wii games really do look better on Wii + 480p CRT than Wii U + 1080p Panasonic plasma. It's a pretty big difference where the former looks clean and sharp, basically as perfect as can be outside of emulation.

Using a checkerboard pattern in the 240p test suite on a softmodded vWii (virtual Wii on the Wii U) makes it quite apparent that the Wii U is always scaling/smoothing the image for Wii mode, with resultant artifacts. I tried every resolution AND every overscan setting.

Because of this I no longer use my Wii U to play Wii or Gamecube games. Exception: Bomberman '94 five-player multi on the big screen when friends are over.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

I have a 20 and personally think for old school stuff a 14/15 is the real sweet spot.

I totally get why GB stuff would look sweet on a 9 inch one and personally I do kind of want a 9 inch one as well just to see how tighter pixels/scanlines would look like in action on old games.

 

[Khaz]

Thanks guys. Another question. Reading about monitors I get the idea that EU versions are better than NA and Japan. Why is that?

Monitor? Do you mean computer, professional, or TV? European TVs are better because RGB Scart, and also they can all take both 50 and 60Hz, whereas NTSC TVs can have problems with 50Hz: some are cool with it, other don't display it, and on some other you need to manually adjust Vhold (older models I believe).

Also, many can use an NTSC encoded signal via Composite / S-Video, though not all, and I have heard quite a few tales of black and white pictures with modded consoles and import games. Even though the TV may take NTSC via Composite, it's very unlikely that it can take it via RF. I'm assuming the difference being that while you can bring a camcorder back from your travels abroad, you wouldn't cross the Atlantic with your massive tube. I have a very late CRT that can take NTSC RF but it's quite an oddity, and my normal, 90s CRT can't even take UK RF. Super old hardware like American Atari VCS or Japanese SEGA SG-1000 can be a bitch to make work in PAL-land.

Computer monitors are pretty much all the same, and Professional monitors should be cool with 50/60Hz, maybe the encoded stuff too.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I totally get why GB stuff would look sweet on a 9 inch one and personally I do kind of want a 9 inch one as well just to see how tighter pixels/scanlines would look like in action on old games.

I have a 9", it's a useful portable piece of test equipment. I was being somewhat snarky in my reply, but GBA games in particular do look very nice on it via Gameboy Interface on a Gamecube.

Beyond Gameboy, it's not that well suited for gaming.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

I have a 9", it's a useful portable piece of test equipment. I was being somewhat snarky in my reply, but GBA games in particular do look very nice on it via Gameboy Interface on a Gamecube.

Beyond Gameboy, it's not that well suited for gaming.

I'll take your word on that. For me, it's more just curiosity in seeing something I haven't seen yet. I want to see how old games looks like on 14"/15" PVMs despite owning a 20". Finding the best sweetspot for all my games is the main reason. It's the reason most of us are on this thread haha.

Spoiler

....and now my search for a gameboyplayer and 9 inch PVM begins

 

[Morfeo]

Almost impossible to get PVM's here in Norway. Got an offer for a Sony 9inch one, too tiny or should I bite?

Yeah I know, I gave up on that a long time ago and went with the Framemeister instead.

 

[Beer Monkey]

I took this a while back, it's the Wario Ware level selection screen, though any real GBA fan would know that. 8" Sony PVM. This is a REAL close Macro, so you might want to step back a bit to get the idea.

 

[speedlolita]

Thanks guys. Another question. Reading about monitors I get the idea that EU versions are better than NA and Japan. Why is that?

I'm assuming you just mean regular CRT?

That'd be because of the RGB SCART socket. A socket for instant RGB. No mess, no issues. It just works.

 

[Mega]

Using a checkerboard pattern in the 240p test suite on a softmodded vWii (virtual Wii on the Wii U) makes it quite apparent that the Wii U is always scaling/smoothing the image for Wii mode, with resultant artifacts. I tried every resolution AND every overscan setting.Because of this I no longer use my Wii U to play Wii or Gamecube games. Exception: Bomberman '94 five-player multi on the big screen when friends are over.

If I didn't have a cabled-tied mess in my old consoles setup, I'd bring the Wii over to the living room to get that improved image quality over vWii. But good to know I wasn't the only one who noticed.

i wanted to point out that Wii games are always 720x480 regardless of screen settings....
if i had to guess, my guess is that Nintendo, like usual, screwed up something with Wii scaling in Wii mode. i noticed when i played my regular Wii on my TV and then switched to the Wii U's Wii mode. there was something that looked off.

Thanks for the insight and also confirming vWii doesn't look entirely right.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
-Wii outputs 720 x 480 for most widescreen games
-Wii U stretches the picture to anamorphic 16:9 widescreen res of 854 x 480, then scales it to 1920 x 1080...?

Anyway all I wanted was a nice, clean upscale like so:

 

[Beer Monkey]

If I didn't have a cabled-tied mess in my old consoles setup, I'd bring the Wii over to the living room to get that improved image quality over vWii. But good to know I wasn't the only one who noticed.

Well on top of it all there's a frame of lag or so added.

So wait, you think, I'll buy Mario 64 on the Wii U Virtual Console!

It lags even more.

GBA and DS are fine though.

 

[Mega]

Wii U VC is an abomination. It's very dark, grayish (with exceptions like GBA). And last I checked basic on-screen elements like lives remaining counter in Mario 64 didn't look right on Wii U.

 

[Timu]

If I didn't have a cabled-tied mess in my old consoles setup, I'd bring the Wii over to the living room to get that improved image quality over vWii. But good to know I wasn't the only one who noticed.



Thanks for the insight and also confirming vWii doesn't look entirely right.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
-Wii outputs 720 x 480 for most widescreen games
-Wii U stretches the picture to anamorphic 16:9 widescreen res of 854 x 480, then scales it to 1920 x 1080...?

Anyway all I wanted was a nice, clean upscale like so:

Eh, I still do 720x480 for me due to the 480p res, regardless if it's Wii, Wii U or whatever. I never heard of widescreen actually increasing the res.

 

[televator]

Disclaimer: this is not CRT vs HDTV Wars. This is me trying to figure out why my plasma TV and all configurations with it make 480p Wii games look like crap next to my HD-capable CRT.

In regards to Wii games on a 1080p display, I think I tried every combination with the hardware I own and it all falls short of just playing on a 480p capable CRT. The reason I'm bothered by all the HDTV results are that they look not like normal aliasing/jaggies, but like slurry. Every edge and UI element has an uneven, wavy, squiggly, lumpy inconsistency. But why does it look like an uneven mess? Widescreen Wii games are 854 x 480. Perfect for the tablet. But why not a 1920 x 1080p display? It's a 2.25x scale on both width and height.

Anyway, I tried the following:

Wii U set to 1080p so that it handles upscaling
http://i.imgur.com/W4RTlax.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/llNWwqG.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/nfez7dg.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/QRgKstd.jpg

Wii U set to 480p 16:9, Panasonic plasma TV handles upscaling
http://i.imgur.com/XVuQeSw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EYQl1U5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6HDpTtS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UMQ2FPm.jpg

Variations of the above through both my receiver with/without passthrough, directly to my TV with Wii U at 480p/1080p. I won't post them all since it basically looks like the same crap as before.
http://i.imgur.com/XVuQeSw.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yc2Zv5t.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/D0gvNwl.jpg

Wii U set to 480p 4:3, plasma set to 4:3 to fix aspect ratio
I think this may be the best. Setting the console to 4:3 causes a stretched image, but changing the TV setting to 4:3 corrects the aspect ratio. The game is no longer running in widescreen but I did detect possibly cleaner, sharper edges here.
4:3 (slightly better?) vs 16:9

I thought maybe I saw small differences in the various tests but really most were identical as far as my eye and zoomed in pics could see. In motion it's hardly possible to see any difference. I've determined that the Wii U's scaler, my TV's scaler and possibly my receiver's scaler (if it has one and it's doing anything different), are not great at maintaining the integrity of the original picture.

Native 480p on a HD CRT
Pictures don't do it justice, it's not even close which sucks. I want this level of fidelity on my plasma.
http://i.imgur.com/sW9CO9O.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pBK9N3g.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xfAFZ2V.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/B8LvvPK.jpg

This one sums it up. Zoom up on Klonoa's face and see how gross it looks on the plasma in comparison to the organic contours of the CRT.
Klonoa: CRT vs Plasma
Balue: CRT vs Plasma
Opening scene: CRT vs Plasma

Your results are consistent with my experience of WiiU handling the upscaling. Unfortunately your HDTV doesn't do a better job of it. That's pretty nuts that there is such a huge disparity between your Plasma and mine.