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[Blue Submarine No. 6]

We just need another out-cry on the Internet and the Harper gov't will walk in and "do" something (which will probably amount to little more than saying the status quo stays for now, what with an election potentially in the air)....

 

[Zombie James]

We just need another out-cry on the Internet and the Harper gov't will walk in and "do" something (which will probably amount to little more than saying the status quo stays for now, what with an election potentially in the air)....

All parties are against UBB, the CRTC knows this. I don't know why the CRTC is continuing the same bullshit "light users shouldn't subsidize heavy users" arguments when everyone knows it's shit and it'll never fly.

 

[erpg]

At least Clement is still vocally against it. I hope he informs people before the hearing.

 

[Zombie James]

This is kind of weird:

The CRTC said its review of "wholesale residential high-speed Internet access services" in response to the controversy over usage-based billing and bandwidth limits will include a public hearing on July 11 in Gatineau, Que.

Why are they having a public hearing on July 11th when their decision has to go down no later than May 1st?

 

[Cheerilee]

Why are they having a public hearing on July 11th when their decision has to go down no later than May 1st?

Isn't that par for the course? Their decision is already made for them before they begin, and then they pretend to listen to people who don't matter.

 

[enzo_gt]

Yeah, those 60 days are fast coming up. I wonder if people will still care when UBB actually happens.

Isn't the Govt's statement that they will reject it if it returns with the same conditions still valid?

It's a bit confusing when the Gov't says it will stop UBB from coming into effect, but allows the CRTC to go back and "reevaluate" but they can still come back with the same bill.

 

[Firestorm]

Isn't the Govt's statement that they will reject it if it returns with the same conditions still valid?

It's a bit confusing when the Gov't says it will stop UBB from coming into effect, but allows the CRTC to go back and "reevaluate" but they can still come back with the same bill.

The government doesn't have the power to reject it really...

 

[EvilMario]

We be screwed, basically. Speak with your vote in the election, people.

 

[soultron]

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShp_Bell_Internet-usage_based_billing_UBB.page

Hit "rate this page" at the very bottom and give Bell a piece of your mind.

Done and done.

 

[enzo_gt]

The government doesn't have the power to reject it really...

Then what was all the talk with the gov't rep saying they'd shut it down if the CRTC doesn't? Was that just fear mongering that worked?

Quite confused, and it's been a while since we've had significant updates on this and I think I've forgotten the rationales.

 

[firehawk12]

No, they can overrule the CRTC ruling if they want. Which is why Andrew Coyne was whining about how they are ruining the parliamentary process and whanot.

The question is, will people care enough after the deadline passes for them to even bother bringing it back up again. Certainly they don't want to piss off their friends at Bell if they can avoid it.

 

[StevieP]

I don't care who's in power, something needs to be done for us consumers for once. I don't mean to sound like the NDP but this whole situation is bullshit, and it's always the little guys that lose.

 

[Oppo]

It does give me hope that the knee-jerk reaction DID exist in regard to UBB, though. Even thugh many people don't understand it properly, there is a fundamental, pervasive attitude that both Bell and Rogers (at the least) are greedy fuckers and that the CRTC has broken it's mandate.

It hasn't amounted to a whole lot so far but I don't think the main concern is actually about whether or not the public cares, but rather how much attention can be made of the issue when the very same companies who want to bill us unfairly own the majority of mainstream media in Canada. Something will give at some point. Conrad et. al are directly limiting the online shopping cart size of Canadians and I have to think that external forces like Microsoft, Sony, Apple etc would have a pretty big problem with these developments, and they collectively have some of the scariest lobbyists/lawyers on earth.

 

[krae_man]

All parties are against UBB, the CRTC knows this. I don't know why the CRTC is continuing the same bullshit "light users shouldn't subsidize heavy users" arguments when everyone knows it's shit and it'll never fly.

They're going to keep repeating that bullshit untill it is drilled into the heads of all Canadians. It'll work too because the Anti UBB people are terrible public speakers.

 

[StevieP]

In the end, we're still going to be screwed. Nothing Apple/MS/Netflix/etc etc will be able to do in the face of 3 corporations that pretty much own everything.

I think I saw a graphic on TV the other night that showed that Bell/Rogers/Telus own 96% of telecommunications infrastructure in Canada. Which is nuts.

 

[isny]

I got a pop up in Firefox the other day warning me I was close to my usage limit for the month.

I assume this is due to the changes? As I've never seen this before in years past =/

 

[krae_man]

I got a pop up in Firefox the other day warning me I was close to my usage limit for the month.

I assume this is due to the changes? As I've never seen this before in years past =/

I've got that message a few times. My billing months are 21st-20 for some reason and every time I've got the message it's been the 15th or later so I still have more then enough bandwidth to last the remaining 4-5 days.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

The government doesn't have the power to reject it really...

Pretty sure they do.

 

[Zombie James]

Pretty sure they do.

And with all three parties against it, that's why i'm confident wholesale UBB will go away. As for UBB in general, only the Liberals and NDP want that addressed.

 

[Cheerilee]

Pretty sure they do.

The government has a self-imposed limit saying that they can only suggest, and then the CRTC interprets their suggestion.

The most recent official suggestion was made by the Conservatives, and the Liberals are taking the lead on trying to score political points by saying that the Conservative suggestion was bad, but while that may be true, the suggestion didn't invariably lead to this end, this was entirely the creation of the CRTC (and their puppetmaster, Bell).

And the Conservatives more recent unofficial suggestion, "Change your mind or I'll change it for you," seems to have been met with a "Fuck you, I don't take requests, UBB is here to stay" from the CRTC.

We're either going to need an absolutely worded official suggestion, which will be weaseled out of by the CRTC if it has room for weaseling, or rejected as an improper suggestion if it doesn't. Conservatives obviously taking the lead on this, and under fire from the Liberals whatever the result.

Or we're going to need to break the "suggestion only" policy. Conservatives taking the lead, Liberals taking shots.

Or we're going to need to clean house on the CRTC. Von Finkie gets the boot, and whoever takes his place is even worse, unless we fire anyone and everyone who has ever worked for Bell/Telus/Rogers/Shaw. Liberals take a few shots at the Conservatives for resorting to such extreme measures.


If this takes long enough, the Liberals and Conservatives might swap positions and carry on in the same manner as above. Universal unpopularity means that UBB and the CRTC will likely fail no matter what, so long as politics keeps far enough away. Although I personally think the Liberals might be a bit less effective in the lead. My ideal scenario is the Conservatives dealing with the problem, and taking a few lumps for it. The NDP is again the only party I think I like on this issue.

 

[StevieP]

I wouldn't give the conservatives any credit at all until this is gone.
NDP is the only party that really is always vocal on this issue.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

The government has a self-imposed limit saying that they can only suggest, and then the CRTC interprets their suggestion.

The most recent official suggestion was made by the Conservatives, and the Liberals are taking the lead on trying to score political points by saying that the Conservative suggestion was bad, but while that may be true, the suggestion didn't invariably lead to this end, this was entirely the creation of the CRTC (and their puppetmaster, Bell).

And the Conservatives more recent unofficial suggestion, "Change your mind or I'll change it for you," seems to have been met with a "Fuck you, I don't take requests, UBB is here to stay" from the CRTC.

We're either going to need an absolutely worded official suggestion, which will be weaseled out of by the CRTC if it has room for weaseling, or rejected as an improper suggestion if it doesn't. Conservatives obviously taking the lead on this, and under fire from the Liberals whatever the result.

Or we're going to need to break the "suggestion only" policy. Conservatives taking the lead, Liberals taking shots.

Or we're going to need to clean house on the CRTC. Von Finkie gets the boot, and whoever takes his place is even worse, unless we fire anyone and everyone who has ever worked for Bell/Telus/Rogers/Shaw. Liberals take a few shots at the Conservatives for resorting to such extreme measures.


If this takes long enough, the Liberals and Conservatives might swap positions and carry on in the same manner as above. Universal unpopularity means that UBB and the CRTC will likely fail no matter what, so long as politics keeps far enough away. Although I personally think the Liberals might be a bit less effective in the lead. My ideal scenario is the Conservatives dealing with the problem, and taking a few lumps for it. The NDP is again the only party I think I like on this issue.

No one is going to judge the conservatives for breaking the 'suggestion only' policy in this circumstance. On the contrary, they're going to score points. They're merely acting on behalf of the public which has made it clearly known that UBB is unwanted.

There's a lot to be said for 'suggestions' in politics, really. You don't just say 'FU' to a suggestion.

 

[Firestorm]

No one is going to judge the conservatives for breaking the 'suggestion only' policy in this circumstance. On the contrary, they're going to score points. They're merely acting on behalf of the public which has made it clearly known that UBB is unwanted.

There's a lot to be said for 'suggestions' in politics, really. You don't just say 'FU' to a suggestion.

Yeah, but we don't want them to be able to say get around the "suggestion only" policy to throw SunTV onto every television set either.

 

[Zzoram]

If there really was to be usage based billing, it should be priced properly. None of this $2/GB bullshit. That's almost as offensive as the $0.20 they charge per SMS without a plan, the equivalent of $6Million per GB.

 

[StevieP]

Internet should be unlimited. Like it used to be.

 

[EvilMario]

If there really was to be usage based billing, it should be priced properly. None of this $2/GB bullshit. That's almost as offensive as the $0.20 they charge per SMS without a plan, the equivalent of $6Million per GB.

Yes. No one, except for politicians who don't know better, is arguing against UBB itself. Even if they wanted to charge $0.20 per gb (a huge markup), most people could live with it. But the problem is, most subscribers to Bell/Rogers use a tiny bit per month. Around 15gb, if you believe their numbers.

Now I don't think Bell would want to be making $3.00 per month from 90% of their internet subscribers, do you?

Yeah, but we don't want them to be able to say get around the "suggestion only" policy to throw SunTV onto every television set either.

It's a great bargaining chip for the Tories. I might prefer not to be ass raped by the Telcoms if nutballs want their idiotic custom tailored 'news' station as collateral for standing up and doing something.

 

[krae_man]

Yes. No one, except for politicians who don't know better, is arguing against UBB itself. Even if they wanted to charge $0.20 per gb (a huge markup), most people could live with it. But the problem is, most subscribers to Bell/Rogers use a tiny bit per month. Around 15gb, if you believe their numbers.

Now I don't think Bell would want to be making $3.00 per month from 90% of their internet subscribers, do you?




It's a great bargaining chip for the Tories. I might prefer not to be ass raped by the Telcoms if nutballs want their idiotic custom tailored 'news' station as collateral for standing up and doing something.

Nah, they'd make about $10 per customer after the modem rental and system access fee.

 

[mentalfloss]

Here's a good vid explaining the deception to stupid idiots (like me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6peRQV5hFEQ&feature=player_embedded

 

[TAS]

Canadians are getting bent over and fucked in the ass and only a handful of people even care. It's pathetic, and makes me ashamed of this country and it's lazy, spineless citizens.

Amen brother!

 

[EvilMario]

Nah, they'd make about $10 per customer after the modem rental and system access fee.

Poor people that do this.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Yeah, but we don't want them to be able to say get around the "suggestion only" policy to throw SunTV onto every television set either.

No, but you shouldn't be worried about a precident. The only precident being set here is that the government is allowed to step in to act on behalf of the public.

 

[jaundicejuice]

Here's a good vid explaining the deception to stupid idiots (like me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6peRQV5hFEQ&feature=player_embedded

And reposted on facebook.

 

[les papillons sexuels]

The government has a self-imposed limit saying that they can only suggest, and then the CRTC interprets their suggestion.

The most recent official suggestion was made by the Conservatives, and the Liberals are taking the lead on trying to score political points by saying that the Conservative suggestion was bad, but while that may be true, the suggestion didn't invariably lead to this end, this was entirely the creation of the CRTC (and their puppetmaster, Bell).

And the Conservatives more recent unofficial suggestion, "Change your mind or I'll change it for you," seems to have been met with a "Fuck you, I don't take requests, UBB is here to stay" from the CRTC.

We're either going to need an absolutely worded official suggestion, which will be weaseled out of by the CRTC if it has room for weaseling, or rejected as an improper suggestion if it doesn't. Conservatives obviously taking the lead on this, and under fire from the Liberals whatever the result.

Or we're going to need to break the "suggestion only" policy. Conservatives taking the lead, Liberals taking shots.

Or we're going to need to clean house on the CRTC. Von Finkie gets the boot, and whoever takes his place is even worse, unless we fire anyone and everyone who has ever worked for Bell/Telus/Rogers/Shaw. Liberals take a few shots at the Conservatives for resorting to such extreme measures.


If this takes long enough, the Liberals and Conservatives might swap positions and carry on in the same manner as above. Universal unpopularity means that UBB and the CRTC will likely fail no matter what, so long as politics keeps far enough away. Although I personally think the Liberals might be a bit less effective in the lead. My ideal scenario is the Conservatives dealing with the problem, and taking a few lumps for it. The NDP is again the only party I think I like on this issue.

I'm completely up for this, I would consider it a conflict of interest to have anyone who's directly connected to any service provider to hold a position of power in which they speak for the interests of the public relating to the field.

 

[StevieP]

Here's a good vid explaining the deception to stupid idiots (like me):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6peRQV5hFEQ&feature=player_embedded

Great video. Fuck this country's telecoms make me so mad.

 

[Shambles]

Great video. Sums it up more succinctly than I would be able to. I'll probably email this around to my non-tech family members to open their eyes to what's going on and what still hasn't been dealt with yet.

 

[bishoptl]

That video is great - succinct and entertaining. Tweeted.

 

[mentalfloss]

Great video. Sums it up more succinctly than I would be able to. I'll probably email this around to my non-tech family members to open their eyes to what's going on and what still hasn't been dealt with yet.

I did the same thing. I think it's the first time I've ever e-mailed something 'political' to my family.

 

[EvilMario]

That video is great - succinct and entertaining. Tweeted.

Tweeted at Clement and other MPs, plus posted on Facebook. It's a great summary.

 

[Threi]

Poor people that do this.

Bell: "Want to use your own (cheap and widely available to purchase) modem? Go ahead, but you are still paying us for the rental fee."

"Oh, you want to send our modem back to us? That's cool too, but you are still paying us the rental fee."

 

[charsace]

They are really trying to go in on netflix aren't they? And people don't seem to care in canada.

 

[Zombie James]

Looks like the CRTC's final decision won't be made overturned by the government until November. Enjoy the next eight months.

 

[StevieP]

Sooo... election in November? lol

 

[EvilMario]

Canadians for the most part have moved on from this story. Newspapers are hardly touching it now. ;_;

 

[firehawk12]

Kind of expected after the anti-climatic ending. Although with the election maybe happening in a couple of months, pushing it to November might be a good thing in terms of having enough distance from the original story.

 

[Fuzzy]

Canadians for the most part have moved on from this story. Newspapers are hardly touching it now. ;_;

The newspapers owned by the big telcos aren't covering this anymore? I find that hard to believe.

 

[X26]

So things are staying as-is for the time being, right?

 

[EvilMario]

The newspapers owned by the big telcos aren't covering this anymore? I find that hard to believe.

Not even the television media is covering it.. hey.. wait a minute!

Spoiler

Telcoms own every major media format. We are so screwed. G&M even ran an article a month ago defending by we need to go down this road.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

Looks like the CRTC's final decision won't be made overturned by the government until November. Enjoy the next eight months.

In other words, "lets hum and haw over this for 8 months, keeping consumers, ISPs and businesses in limbo, hoping that the public and politicians will forget about this issue when the time comes.

 

[Zombie James]

http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5697/125/

Why is Bell doing this? Apparently it isn't about fairness, congestion or heavy users. In response to a question on the issue, Cope states:

as we see a growth in video usage on the internet, making sure we’re monetizing that for our shareholders through the bandwidth usage charges

 

[firehawk12]

Of course. If they can't get you to subscribe to ExpressVu, they'll get you on the internet.