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[Zombie James]

http://www.thewirereport.ca/reports...nsider_minimum_limits_for_bit_caps_crtc_chair

“Bell has a cap of 60 [GB] in Quebec, but 20 [GB] in Ontario. What's the logic of that? I don't understand it. As part of this hearing, I hope that we will look at it, we will have a whole education of how it works and the carriers will also try to rethink their offerings,” von Finckenstein said, speaking at the conference.

If he doesn't understand it, why did he approve it?

Von Finckenstein said usage-based billing has been misunderstood by the public, adding that the commission supports in principle a regime where heavy users pay more than light users.

“I think it's only fair that if you're a heavy user you have to pay more,” he said.

But von Finckenstein added that there may be room to revise the policy.

“Is there a better way of doing it? ... Maybe there are better ways, and we've opened it up,” he said.

“It's clear that you have to differentiate between heavy users and regular users. How you do it, that's going to be the issue.”

But von Finckenstein told The Wire Report that the commission will not get involved in the price that Internet service providers (ISPs) charge for overage data.

“We never get into that. We don’t regulate unless there’s a market failure, and I don’t think anybody can say there is market failure here,” he said.

I'd say charging a 20,000%+ markup on anything is a market failure.

 

[Threi]

why not instead of saying "the heavy user should pay more" they should say "the light user should pay less"?

 

[Takao]

why not instead of saying "the heavy user should pay more" they should say "the light user should pay less"?

Because that wouldn't be true.

 

[Presco]

In response to all this UBB nonsense I cancelled my Bell Fibe TV and internet packages and made the switch to TekSavvy. Had it installed this morning and I'm currently getting faster than Bell Fibe 25 speeds. Very happy!

 

[firehawk12]

In response to all this UBB nonsense I cancelled my Bell Fibe TV and internet packages and made the switch to TekSavvy. Had it installed this morning and I'm currently getting faster than Bell Fibe 25 speeds. Very happy!

How do you get "Fibe" service from TekSavvy? Or is that Cable?

 

[Presco]

How do you get "Fibe" service from TekSavvy? Or is that Cable?

It's just the extreme cable service from TekSavvy. I was noting that it's faster than my Fibe 25 service from Bell, despite being advertised as 15 Mbps down. Currently downloading from Steam at 3.8 MB/s

 

[ukresistance]

In response to all this UBB nonsense I cancelled my Bell Fibe TV and internet packages and made the switch to TekSavvy. Had it installed this morning and I'm currently getting faster than Bell Fibe 25 speeds. Very happy!

Though from the UK I have been following this story with interest. As O2 here, have been doing shady Bullshit capping and other stuff, i've been worried more around the world will follow Bell/Rodgers in screwing us over.

Currently on Virgin. No download limits.

 

[Presco]

Though from the UK I have been following this story with interest. As O2 here, have been doing shady Bullshit capping and other stuff, i've been worried more around the world will follow Bell/Rodgers in screwing us over.

Currently on Virgin. No download limits.

No download limit is nice! I think my new service should be ok...I have 300 GB per month on it and I can't really see myself going over. My old plan with Bell just dropped the cap to 50 GB per month and costs substantially more than I will pay now.

 

[ukresistance]

No download limit is nice! I think my new service should be ok...I have 300 GB per month on it and I can't really see myself going over. My old plan with Bell just dropped the cap to 50 GB per month and costs substantially more than I will pay now.

It's good that you have a better deal.

I think 300G is reasonable. Anything less is not.

There is just so much content online these days, Demos, Games on Demand, Trailers, Movies and Music it would not be that hard to exceed 50GB in 2-3 days with connection speeds similar to ours. That only includes stuff we can easily quantify and would not cover Youtube, Sky player, Netflix or BBC iplayer. I mean how much bandwidth did we all use watching Von Finckenstein get grilled the other week?

Here, Virgin have changed some of the prices but not the service. Thankfully our package remains unaffected.

 

[Mr_Moogle]

Being an Australian, its nice to know were not the only country being screwed over by a gigantic, monopolistic telco.

I feel for Canada-GAF. Theres nothing fair about this. It seems like a huge step back.

 

[TouchMyBox]

It's just the extreme cable service from TekSavvy. I was noting that it's faster than my Fibe 25 service from Bell, despite being advertised as 15 Mbps down. Currently downloading from Steam at 3.8 MB/s

But that 3.8 MB/s should only last 10 or so seconds. Long enough for a speedtest. Then you're down to 1.8 MB/s

How do you get "Fibe" service from TekSavvy? Or is that Cable?

One could use a teksavvy login with a Bell Fibe connection. Then you'd have to pay for both services. This is incredibly frowned upon though as TSI's Bell links are accounting for their users having 5 Mb/s profiles.

 

[J Tourettes]

Though from the UK I have been following this story with interest. As O2 here, have been doing shady Bullshit capping and other stuff, i've been worried more around the world will follow Bell/Rodgers in screwing us over.

Currently on Virgin. No download limits.

Virgin traffic shape though, unfortunately.

 

[RevoDS]

Being an Australian, its nice to know were not the only country being screwed over by a gigantic, monopolistic telco.

I feel for Canada-GAF. Theres nothing fair about this. It seems like a huge step back.

Aren't you Aussies building a massive public FTTH network though? If you're being screwed over, it shouldn't be for long at least...

 

[TouchMyBox]

Aren't you Aussies building a massive public FTTH network though? If you're being screwed over, it shouldn't be for long at least...

NBN is supposed to still have caps, though they're almost in the realm of being reasonable. One question I have for our friends down under though, is how much are the overages on NBN? Do they vary by wholesaler?

 

[Zombie James]

nm

 

[Threi]

got an email yesterday from openmedia that they were lookin for $15k in support within 48 hours (so that Teksavvy and Acanac would keep their word in providing matching funds) and it turns out they reached that goal in half the time.

...damn this thing is really starting to pick up steam, I like

 

[EvilMario]

I'm glad people are not forgetting about the fight now. This was surely the hope of the CRTC and Bell, with their 60 day delay.

 

[added_time]

Even though I have unlimited internet from Bell (had this plan for ages so I don't know if I'm safe or not), I have still been fighting this like crazy.
I just hate the way the big companies get government help to keep their monopolies strong while screwing Canadians with high prices.
So I'm all over this writing letters, emails and doing petitions even though it doesn't affect me directly (...yet)

 

[Firestorm]

I signed up to be a person for local media to contact for the Day of Action this Saturday. Anyone else attending the events?

 

[Lostconfused]

I signed up to be a person for local media to contact for the Day of Action this Saturday. Anyone else attending the events?

What evens now? Haven't being paying attention to this mess since I switched to teksavvy cable.

 

[dragonfart28]

I'm still extremely confuzed about this whole issue. I'm actually not really that against usage based billing, as long as it's cheap.

I understand there is the 20 or 25GB cap in Ontario, and yes, that's way too little. But will it really affect us that much, financially??

Right now I pay about $60/mo. for 90 GB, but I rarely go over 50 GB. How much will the difference really be on cost??

 

[Zombie James]

I'm still extremely confuzed about this whole issue. I'm actually not really that against usage based billing, as long as it's cheap.

I understand there is the 20 or 25GB cap in Ontario, and yes, that's way too little. But will it really affect us that much, financially??

Yes. I've used just over 20GB in the past 5 days.

 

[dragonfart28]

Yes. I've used just over 20GB in the past 5 days.

Let's assume the average person watches 1 streaming HD movie/day. Over the course of a month, that's what - 40 GB? What would that cost?

 

[Shambles]

Teksavvy's name is thrown around a lot but as someone who lives out west I am not in range of their cable services. What other independent ISPS are out there that are also a decent choice, especially one with 15/1 type packages?

 

[Zzoram]

Let's assume the average person watches 1 streaming HD movie/day. Over the course of a month, that's what - 40 GB? What would that cost?

1HD move per day would be a lot more than 40GB per month.

HD movie streams are anywhere from 2GB-4GB each depending on quality and length.

 

[Littleberu]

Let's assume the average person watches 1 streaming HD movie/day. Over the course of a month, that's what - 40 GB? What would that cost?

Let's say 720p streaming is standard for now, but that it's 1080p that becomes the standard in 3 years. Do you think the CRTC will have changed the cap? No.

It's bullshit and shallow to think people will only use 25gb of bandwidth in the years to come.

As to how much it would cost? It depends on your provider, but it's somewhere around 1 to 2$ per GB after the 25GB cap.

 

[Takao]

Let's assume the average person watches 1 streaming HD movie/day. Over the course of a month, that's what - 40 GB? What would that cost?

A lot more than it actually costs to provide that content.

You're also thinking just from a single person situation. I live with my family at home, where the internet is shared by 3 people. We'd likely be over $100 a month with the proposed caps, and fees.

 

[dragonfart28]

A lot more than it actually costs to provide that content.

You're also thinking just from a single person situation. I live with my family at home, where the internet is shared by 3 people. We'd likely be over $100 a month with the proposed caps, and fees.

Ah.. I see.

It's hard putting this into perspective. I still think UBB is not a bad idea in principle, but they really have to lower the rates to accommodate for the average situation.

 

[added_time]

It's hard putting this into perspective. I still think UBB is not a bad idea in principle, but they really have to lower the rates to accommodate for the average situation.

Maybe UBB would make more sense if the people that used a lot less, paid a lot less. It isn't like that though. They want the people that use very little to pay a lot and the people that use more to pay even more.
There is no benefit to the consumer since there is no reward for using only a little bit. There is only a punishment for using more.

 

[Blackface]

Maybe UBB would make more sense if the people that used a lot less, paid a lot less. It isn't like that though. They want the people that use very little to pay a lot and the people that use more to pay even more.
There is no benefit to the consumer since there is no reward for using only a little bit. There is only a punishment for using more.

The ubb would never make sense. The cost to transfer a gigabyte of data is between 1 and 3 cents. It's actually much less, but it's what ISP's ttoss around for arguments sake.

The average heavy user in this country pays $59 for 10mb down, 1mb up Internet with an 80-85 GB cap.

The ISP's like Rogers and Bell like to compare the Internet to utilities. Although thats completely retarded, lets look it from that point of view.

Utility companies are heavily regulated, and many some of them are non-profit. The markup they are allowed to issue consumers is heavily regulated. In many cases between 10 and 12 percent. What Rogers and Bell want is Usage baseds billing like utility companies, but with no regulation at all.

If we took the three cents it costs them (arguments sake, it's actually less then a penny) to transfer one gigabyte of data to your home, and gave them a 10 percent markup for profit, things would be much different.

The current 80gb cap, should only cost users $3 a month. Infact, $3 a month with a 10 percent markup per gigabyte for profit, entitles you to about 90 gig's of bandwidth a month.

$60 a month, even with a 10 percent markup for profit, should net the average user close to 1.8 terabytes of bandwidth a month. This is looking at the HIGH end of the scale for complete arguments sake. In reality, it less then a penny, and $60 covers over 15 terabytes of bandwidth a month with a profit markup.

So $60 covers almost 1.8 terabytes, but under current standards, grants you only 80 gigs. 1.8 Terabytes would cost you, under the current system $3600 a month.

Canadians are getting bent over and fucked in the ass and only a handful of people even care. It's pathetic, and makes me ashamed of this country and it's lazy, spineless citizens.

 

[added_time]

The ubb would never make sense.

I know it doesn't. I was trying to show that guy that there is no benefit to it for the consumer.

 

[MoFuzz]

Canadians are getting bent over and fucked in the ass and only a handful of people even care. It's pathetic, and makes me ashamed of this country and it's lazy, spineless citizens.

You make some great points, and I agree with you on many of them, but I just wanted to touch on this last part.

The same telecoms that are looking to charge more for internet also own the majority of the major Canadian television networks & news outlets, so it's no surprise that it hasn't garnered much media attention. It was only after the government got involved that made the issue a little more well known, but the fight definitely isn't over. They will all try to downplay this as much as possible and just as people start to forget about it, try to pull another fast one on us.

It's up to those of us who are informed to spread the word around and be active. I don't want to have to look back at this time in 20 years and remember it as being "The golden age of internet" before the dark times.

 

[Entropia]

I'm still extremely confuzed about this whole issue. I'm actually not really that against usage based billing, as long as it's cheap.

I understand there is the 20 or 25GB cap in Ontario, and yes, that's way too little. But will it really affect us that much, financially??

I bought a new Hard drive yesterday, I had to re-download numerous programs and the like. WoW alone is over 9GB. My cap is currently at 65 with Bell, that's a huge chunk of our alloted bandwidth.

 

[Blackface]

You make some great points, and I agree with you on many of them, but I just wanted to touch on this last part.

The same telecoms that are looking to charge more for internet also own the majority of the major Canadian television networks & news outlets, so it's no surprise that it hasn't garnered much media attention. It was only after the government got involved that made the issue a little more well known, but the fight definitely isn't over. They will all try to downplay this as much as possible and just as people start to forget about it, try to pull another fast one on us.

It's up to those of us who are informed to spread the word around and be active. I don't want to have to look back at this time in 20 years and remember it as being "The golden age of internet" before the dark times.

Right, but most Canadians don't care. I find it funny that the CRTC just shot down a ruling that would allow the news to lie. Yet thats all thats happening in the media concerning he UBB as it is. Mccleans just did an article about the UBB being a good thing, and lied numerous times in the article. They are owned by Rogers.

That being said, the UBB will be passed eventually. Nothing will change until the Canadian telecom market is completely open to foreign companies. Something that will never happen because our government likes to protect terrible Canadian business that would be slaughter anywhere else in the world. So we get the advantage of them being "Canadian" and the disadvantage of getting fucked without lube.

 

[Bear]

Wow, this is insane. I live with a roommate and we exceeded our 60 gig Rogers monthly cap. I just bought HL2 Episode 2 on Steam for $2, but to download it I'd have to pay another $10 in overage charges. Something really needs to be done about these absurdly inflated rates here. It's unbelievable that the CTRC could support Bell's UBB considering the current state of the industry.

 

[Firestorm]

What evens now? Haven't being paying attention to this mess since I switched to teksavvy cable.

http://openmedia.ca/local

Most major Canadian cities have something going on that day. If you switched to Teksavvy, this is all about you. Bell and Rogers want to impose the exact same caps and charges on your service. Your 300GB cap could become 80GB with whatever ridiculous per GB rate on top.

 

[Cynar]

I donated to openmedia last night and I'm glad to see they reached their goal. If you haven't donated yet, do it! :O Any little bit helps them I'm sure.

I really wish teksavvy had cable in my area.

 

[Firestorm]

Teksavvy's name is thrown around a lot but as someone who lives out west I am not in range of their cable services. What other independent ISPS are out there that are also a decent choice, especially one with 15/1 type packages?

Telus. Unlimited bandwidth with great entrance promo: $55 a month with 1 year contract gets you 1 year of 15mbit internet, basic IPTV, and home phone. And ADSL is quite a bit more consistent than cable.

http://forums.redflagdeals.com/telus-15-15-15-promo-925005/10/#post12445587

If you're okay with slower internet but $45 a month instead of $55 a month (no box rental): http://forums.redflagdeals.com/shaw-15-15-15-promo-full-year-1007690/

 

[EGM92]

I had a chat with a friend who I just found out who works for Teksavvy, anyone in Brampton looking for cable should keep checking in march, they got their POI's and are just waiting for things to be turned over. I switched over my phone late last week, I am now saving 190$ a year with the same service as I had with Bell. Internet will save me 260$ anually.

I donated to Openmedia last night as well and was surprised when I got the email this morning saying they've reached their goal.

Now what exactly is going to be done with those $45k+ ?

 

[TheRagnCajun]

I had a chat with a friend who I just found out who works for Teksavvy, anyone in Brampton looking for cable should keep checking in march, they got their POI's and are just waiting for things to be turned over. I switched over my phone late last week, I am now saving 190$ a year with the same service as I had with Bell. Internet will save me 260$ anually.

I donated to Openmedia last night as well and was surprised when I got the email this morning saying they've reached their goal.

Now what exactly is going to be done with those $45k+ ?

Does your freind know what regions they're expanding to?

 

[Zombie James]

http://petition.liberal.ca/crtc-ubb/

Really great submission to the CRTC.

 

[entremet]

Hopefully, this thing is squashed. Talk about anti innovation.

 

[TheRagnCajun]

http://petition.liberal.ca/crtc-ubb/

Really great submission to the CRTC.

Looks like Liberal propaganda to me.

 

[Zombie James]

Looks like Liberal propaganda to me.

I'm just happy every major party is against it.

 

[Firestorm]

Only Michael Ignatieff and the Liberal Party have shown leadership by taking strong positions on net neutrality, open government, broadband access, fair copyright, digital democracy and now usage-based billing. We must win this fight once and for all so that we can begin building Canada’s digital future today.

Fuck off, Ignatieff. The NDP has been the only party to consistently and vocally support net neutrality and fair copyright.

 

[Zombie James]

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShp_Bell_Internet-usage_based_billing_UBB.page

Hit "rate this page" at the very bottom and give Bell a piece of your mind.

 

[Cheerilee]

http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShp_Bell_Internet-usage_based_billing_UBB.page

Hit "rate this page" at the very bottom and give Bell a piece of your mind.

Gleefully done.

Note: Try to refrain from profanities, because submissions with swear words in them will most likely be ignored and thrown away without a second thought, assuming a filter doesn't do it for them.

 

[Zombie James]

http://www.thewirereport.ca/reports...crtcs_ubb_review_limited_to_billing_practices

“In reviewing the billing practices for mandated wholesale residential high-speed access services in this proceeding, the Commission is inviting comments on proposals for billing practices that implement these two principles, and is not limited to examining only usage-based billing,” the CRTC said in a letter to parties participating in the proceeding.

The two guiding principles for the review, the CRTC said, are that “ordinary consumers served by small Internet service providers (Small ISPs) should not have to fund the bandwidth used by the heaviest retail Internet service consumers”; and that “it is in the best interest of consumers that Small ISPs, which offer competitive alternatives to the incumbent carriers, should continue to do so.”

Several small ISPs and public interest groups had called for an expanded proceeding that included a comprehensive review of the regulatory framework governing the incumbents’ sale of wholesale Internet services to small competitors.

“The CRTC will not be expanding the scope, as requested by several parties, to include the billing practices for retail Internet services. There is no evidence that market forces are not working properly in this unregulated market,” the commission added in a release Friday.

In other words, the CRTC is going to come back with the exact same shit and it's not going to do anything to help retail customers.

 

[StevieP]

FML

 

[firehawk12]

Yeah, those 60 days are fast coming up. I wonder if people will still care when UBB actually happens.