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USGamer: Gaming's Never-Ending Adolescence (about Omega Labyrinth and sex)
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Piston Hyundai
Member
the text isn't in japanese, so this is falling on deaf ears
He's not just talking about Japanese devs.
SerTapTap
Member
UUGGGGHHHH from the title I thought this would be something interesting like gaming's mainstream acceptance or marketing targets.
Instead it's this ludicrous "one game with TIDDIES ruins the entire medium blah blah" how dare you set me up for this disappointment. This point is so laughable it's barely worth discussing. This is a fringe game and if you're so incompetent as to judge a medium by what is allowed at it's edges your opinion is entirely unworthy of respect.
The only almost relevant point here is that censorship certainly does hold many games back. Though I'm sure the author would find plenty to complain about in a fully explicit Omega Labyrinth/whatever.
Instead it's this ludicrous "one game with TIDDIES ruins the entire medium blah blah" how dare you set me up for this disappointment. This point is so laughable it's barely worth discussing. This is a fringe game and if you're so incompetent as to judge a medium by what is allowed at it's edges your opinion is entirely unworthy of respect.
The only almost relevant point here is that censorship certainly does hold many games back. Though I'm sure the author would find plenty to complain about in a fully explicit Omega Labyrinth/whatever.
Riposte
Member
Time will tell that they exist beyond any sort of "adolescence".
Can't say I disagree with the article. Consumers and developers alike tend not to distinguish between "contains explicit content" and "actually has something to say" when they talk about games being "mature."
Maybe? It can definitely be an opportunity to deliver certain experiences in a much more immersive and intimate way if used correctly, but there's nothing about it that's inherently focused on making video games less juvenile.
Maybe? It can definitely be an opportunity to deliver certain experiences in a much more immersive and intimate way if used correctly, but there's nothing about it that's inherently focused on making video games less juvenile.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
Omega Laberynth embraces so honestly it's adolescent premise that I cannot get Angry with it.
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
i cant disagree, but its what sells
BoxManLocke
Member
I can't think of a game that would have been better if the developers had chose/been able to include nudity.
90% of video games stories are utter shit. Full frontal nudity ain't gonna change anything about that, or make games more "mature".
Work on the stories quality, then we'll be able to focus on nudity.
90% of video games stories are utter shit. Full frontal nudity ain't gonna change anything about that, or make games more "mature".
Work on the stories quality, then we'll be able to focus on nudity.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
I mean
a.)what even is a mainstream Japanese game focused at Japanese audiences today? (that isn't pachinko)
and b.) as he points out, its a general problem with lots of Western games as well, just not quite to the same candy colored degree
If we restrict ourselves from discussing "fringe games" when discussing games as a medium we limit ourselves to basically talking about...Destiny, Mario Kart, and and Dota and League. If we draw a chart of sales figures and use that as our "fringe" determination basically everything outside of a handful of titles is fringe
Piston Hyundai
Member
I get that, but I think the Japanese developers would be the focus here, considering they make most of the borderline-pornographic "fanservice" shit. They're the ones that would probably need to read this the most, and I doubt they'd listen (regardless of the language it's in), since the backlash is coming from what is a secondary market to them.
Dragonslayer_023
Banned
Muh Western sensibilities.
Took long enough for the first article whining about Omega Labyrinth to come out. About 10 hours.
Maybe gaming journalists trying to impose their standards on the whole industry so that every single developer out there appeases exactly the same demographics (tthem), and does exactly the same thing, should do the growing up instead.
We already get DOAX 3 not coming to the west or coming maimed. All we need is more fearmongering.
Maybe gaming journalists trying to impose their standards on the whole industry so that every single developer out there appeases exactly the same demographics (tthem), and does exactly the same thing, should do the growing up instead.
We already get DOAX 3 not coming to the west or coming maimed. All we need is more fearmongering.
The premise of the article is still valid, however. The fact that games try so, so very hard to skirt around that AO rating reeks of children giggling over--as the article says--a Victoria' Secret magazine.
There's a lot to be said with actual sex scenes being infinitely more awkward in videogames compared to other media due to the uncanny valley and the fact that models smooshing up against each other is inherently a little ridiculous, but games like The Witcher benefit in their world-building by having characters be nude without the game calling immediate attention to it.
It feels campy and gross when you can tell that a creator wanted to make something "sexy" or sexual but had to stop just short of it, thus turning more mundane situations into something sexually charged and awkward.
Youkai Watch, Monster Hunter, etc. Most of the big-selling games in Japan are family-friendly. Niche otaku games like the article complains about don't actually sell very well at all; they just have small, dedicated audiences.
Piston Hyundai
Member
that...sounds awesome ?
why don't you just watch some fucking porn
like, cut out the fucking middleman instead of playing every other vita game with one hand
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Monster Hunter is probably the best answer yeaah
SolidSnakex
Member
Since you agree can you explain what his point is? Because I read it and I still don't understand what he's overall point is with this article.
I remember someone, somewhere saying the end of the romance thing in the first Mass Effect was (at the time) the greatest thing in gaming ever. It's really that kind of stuff gaming needs to get away from, in terms of promoting and catering towards. It's cringe-worthy and is not geographically independent in one region or another. It's everywhere, just in different forms.
Denton
Member
You have a good point there, I do enjoy some good porn without feeling ashamed about it, and will probably never play Omega Labyrinth since I don't care for roguelikes (and don't have vita)
the idea is still awesome, so japanese
SliceSabre
Banned
I never quite get articles like this.
They say games like Senran Kagura existing is okay, but then they say they aren't okay with it existing.
They say games like Senran Kagura existing is okay, but then they say they aren't okay with it existing.
Demoskinos
Member
This whole notion of the medium "growing up" always has made me laugh. The medium is big enough for everything to exist. Journey and Gone Home can exist alongside Senran Kagura and Dead or Alive just fine. Thats the cool thing about video games you can CHOOSE what you want to play.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
The point is that games so badly want to, well, indulge in sexual content, but don't want to be seen as "pornographic" with the ratings and perception that entails, so you get these ridiculous half-way attempts that aren't "really porn" because there's not enough skin showing. And I do think you can leverage the exact same criticism at how Mass Effect handles things, its just not as baked into the moment to moment experience as much as some of these.
WhateverItTakes
Banned
What are we expecting here? Games to suddenly 'grow up' and these tactless design choices to go away?
Take music videos. They probably 'grew up' when they started telling stories to go along with the music. Doesn't stop a lot of them using sex sex sex to sell sell sell.
We have mature, thoughtful games now, for example, that thread on that Lisa RPG made it look like an absolutely beautiful hell to play through. We should probably have more of them. Hell, even in Witcher 3, a thoughtful game by most accounts, there should probably be more options for Geralt's potential partners than slim girls with a perfect set of breasts. (NOTE: I am halfway through the game please call me out if I'm wrong on this.)
I don't want gaming to grow up. That'd render a lotta Platinum's output much less charming. I just want people to think beyond teenage fantasies, or at least do it with a non-perverted wink.
Take music videos. They probably 'grew up' when they started telling stories to go along with the music. Doesn't stop a lot of them using sex sex sex to sell sell sell.
We have mature, thoughtful games now, for example, that thread on that Lisa RPG made it look like an absolutely beautiful hell to play through. We should probably have more of them. Hell, even in Witcher 3, a thoughtful game by most accounts, there should probably be more options for Geralt's potential partners than slim girls with a perfect set of breasts. (NOTE: I am halfway through the game please call me out if I'm wrong on this.)
I don't want gaming to grow up. That'd render a lotta Platinum's output much less charming. I just want people to think beyond teenage fantasies, or at least do it with a non-perverted wink.
Well, one of his points is if you want to do sexuality in a video game:
1. Don't do it in half-measures.
2. Approach it more maturely.
You've exactly described what movies have been doing for years. There's parts of the country ( in the U.S. at least ) that won't show a rated 'R' movie. So the producers try to get as close as possible without going over. It's all documented in This Film In Not Yet Rated.. I think the medium is maturing ( falling in line with films ). It's just not maturing the way he wants.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
You couldn't make this shit up if you tried.
I agree with this, more witcher and less anime schoolgirl and to an increasingly lesser extent bioware would lead to better less awkward romance scenes in games.
SolidSnakex
Member
But that's assuming that these games want to do that. He brings up Onechanbara as an example, but I don't think the developers of that game want to show actual nudity. It's over the top and cheesy in the same way Baywatch was over the top and cheesy. Just look at the ridiculous banana costume in Z2. It really wouldn't be the same if they were just running around completely naked.
I think that's a part that he's missing in this article. Many of these Japanese games aren't trying to be serious. They're outright cheesy and completely embrace that factor. Something like Mass Effect on the other hand is trying it's best to be as serious as possible.
Piston Hyundai
Member
I doubt a whole lot of people want to jack off to nuance
The problem is, people outside of gaming (the mainstream, the press) get so freaked out with sex in video games, if devs were to drop all pretense and just DO IT, I don't even want to imagine the reaction from those people.
That and laws about selling M rated games would have to get way more strict.
That and laws about selling M rated games would have to get way more strict.
T.Slothrop
Member
Gaming has a never ending adolescence because the biggest chunk of fans are adolescents or people who like adolescent entertainment. Which is a claim that could be leveled at our pop culture generally as of late.
Of course, Japanese pop culture is ten times worse.
Just embrace the adolescence, personal growth is overrated anyway.
Of course, Japanese pop culture is ten times worse.
Just embrace the adolescence, personal growth is overrated anyway.
Why play FIFA when you can just watch soccer on TV, or better yet just actually play it in real life?
mikespit1200
Member
I kinda just rolled my eyes at this article. I love Retronauts, but I really feel like Parish just doesn't know what he wants from games anymore.
TheBaronOfNA
Banned
How the heck we are expecting to create better ratings and a marked that sustain them if there is decrying when skin is showed ?(regardless if is done with taste or not)
Parish say that stuff like Onega Laberinth is "not honest" but sure as hell that logo and premise screams "I don't give a fuck".
ZeroGravity
Member
Porn exists. Clearly the film medium needs to grow up.
A) Lots of creators and consumers want products that skirt the line or push the envelope without going over the actual cliff. There is value in "the tease"
B) Until gaming becomes as accepted as literature, film or comics/manga I don't think the author will ever really get what they want. If you start actually making pornographic games, even if you avoid the creep zone and make sure all characters involved are, look and act well above the AoC, there will be huge pushback from inside and outside the gaming industry. Take any negative reaction to any random Vita game and blow it up 5345132513252 times. Good luck actually selling your product anywhere too. Hell that's an issue that the more accepted forms of media have to deal with too if they cross that line.
B) Until gaming becomes as accepted as literature, film or comics/manga I don't think the author will ever really get what they want. If you start actually making pornographic games, even if you avoid the creep zone and make sure all characters involved are, look and act well above the AoC, there will be huge pushback from inside and outside the gaming industry. Take any negative reaction to any random Vita game and blow it up 5345132513252 times. Good luck actually selling your product anywhere too. Hell that's an issue that the more accepted forms of media have to deal with too if they cross that line.
Interesting read. I agree with the overall point that sexuality in games can be handled better, however I do disagree on what this "better" is. Onechanbara was done right to me just because of how unashamed it was of what it is, all the more reinforced by the banana splitz costume mentioned in the article. Tamsoft's goal was to put out something gratuitous, and rather than try to dress it up as something it's not they just embraced the rather low-brow style of the game. Now, as for DT2 and Omega Labyrinth, those types of appraoches usually just makes me shake my head. The fanservice typically comes off as a lazy and bolted on to the main product. It does more of a disservice to the actual game (and yes, I'm aware OL isn't out yet and I'm only basing this on screenshots).
I think many devs need to reapproach how they handle sexuality and relationships. It's not that games like DT2 and Omega Labyrinth shouldn't exist, but that I'd rather have developers aim for more believable and intelligent uses of the two. Mass Effect was a good example of a Western series that's guilty of this, where the furthest relationships got with depth seemed to be that if you were nice to someone they'd be down to fuck by the end of the game. Perhaps the author is right, and we need to remove the restrictions on sexuality before games can actually tackle them in a more adult manner.
I think many devs need to reapproach how they handle sexuality and relationships. It's not that games like DT2 and Omega Labyrinth shouldn't exist, but that I'd rather have developers aim for more believable and intelligent uses of the two. Mass Effect was a good example of a Western series that's guilty of this, where the furthest relationships got with depth seemed to be that if you were nice to someone they'd be down to fuck by the end of the game. Perhaps the author is right, and we need to remove the restrictions on sexuality before games can actually tackle them in a more adult manner.
JordanN
Banned
Games are more mature now than ever. Look at the current games made by Naughty Dog and tell me if they're the same as Vita?
The complaint is so strange to me. I feel like if you asked the AAA Publishers of today which game they would rather fund, they're not going to give big budgets to the immature games.
The complaint is so strange to me. I feel like if you asked the AAA Publishers of today which game they would rather fund, they're not going to give big budgets to the immature games.
Wolfgunblood Garopa
Member
This got stupid a long time ago. There are tons of books, comics, movies, etc with this kind of content. I'm not sure why every game nowadays has to be the subject of some cultural crisis. There are more alternatives to this kind of stuff in games today than ever before.
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
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