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[inner-G]

Porno exists, therefore cinema will never grow up as a medium.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Porno exists, therefore cinema will never grow up as a medium.

It's been downhill for Cinema since Deepthroat.

Seriously though, there is room for both childish games like this and serious games like Gone Home and what not.

 

[Hipster Cthulhu]

Some games don't meet my arbitrary standards of maturity so the whole industry needs to grow up.

 

[$h@d0w]

Everything should be made, stop armchair policing devs

I'm sure the same exists for other mediums.

 

[Muffin Awesome]

the text isn't in japanese, so this is falling on deaf ears

this just slayed me, I know this may not be in context to the article, but here is some truth in this response, in regards to Vita at least.

 

[BY2K]

There's a very clear lack of taste when it comes to sexuality in games, in general, when compared to TV, movies and books.

Heeeee, the others can do some dumb stuff too.

Look at Fifty Shades of Grey, or Piranha 3DD.

 

[Phu]

Wow, this guy says out loud the argument that I always wondered if people were actually making internally when they criticised these games.

"Porn is fine, but almost porn? That's fucking terrible!!"

I see this opinion a lot, usually reading between the lines, and I can't for the life of me understand it.

This is the funniest and best thing I've read in a while.

 

[MrDoctor]

what even is a mainstream Japanese game focused at Japanese audiences today? (that isn't pachinko)

For big "AAA" stuff, there's Dragon Quest XI and Metal Gear Solid V.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Not to say i care anything about pandering stuff such as this game, it obviously has an extremely small niche that it sells to.

My actual issue is with the article's point itself. I'm so tired of people trying to make the insinuation that games have to conform to a particular standard across literally all categories to fulfill some sort of specified litmus test for non gamers to 'take our hobby seriously like art.'

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Heeeee, the others can do some dumb stuff too.

Look at Fifty Shades of Grey, or Piranha 3DD.

Yeah, but video games are kind of like if almost every movie and TV show that had sexuality in it was Fifty Shades Of Grey or Piranha 3D.

 

[petghost]

I dno Japan and other non western cultures cannot be held to the same standard as the west on these morality issues... Cultures differ and if there are no human right violations taking place I don't see how that is a problem. I get the feeling that if people like whoever wrote this story took over they would like to whitewash the world with their western progressive standards.

 

[Drac84]

Omega Labyrinth isn't any more indicative of the state of gaming than 50 Shades of Grey is of literature.

Not every single game, book, movie, TV show, play, song or comic has to appeal to everyone. They don't all have to take their respective medium forward, or take themselves seriously and contain subtlety and nuance.

If you don't like goofy Japanese fan service shit, don't play it. But it's not enough to simply not play something. He finds it embarrassing and immature so he wishes they'd change their game to suit him? GAGF.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

For big "AAA" stuff, there's Dragon Quest XI and Metal Gear Solid V.

Not even MGSV. MGS has always been more popular in the West, I believe.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Any time I see somebody call for gaming to to grow up kind of makes me think they are stuck in a bubble where they think the industry is ready to grow up.

Until some practices are quashed until there is more variety in developers and the market is mature, I can't sit here and say "I wish this industry would grow up." Humanity still has not grown up, what makes you think games would do any better when it's made by humans?

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Any time I see somebody call for gaming to to grow up kind of makes me think they are stuck in a bubble where they think the industry is ready to grow up.

Until some practices are quashed until there is more variety in developers and the market is mature, I can't sit here and say "I wish this industry would grow up." Humanity still has not grown up, what makes you think games would do any better when it's made by humans?

Because plenty of other entertainment mediums are already far more grown up, and there is no reason that video games shouldn't be held to the standard of other entertainment mediums.

 

[RM8]

I agree that those games are awful, but I think it's only an issue when existing series get infected by this stuff (like Fire Emblem :[).

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

When a new market kind of appears out of nowhere like videogames did, and get to grow and blossom almost in a vacuum, it seems completely understandable that the tapping into the kinds of emotions teenagers would be having, and then targeting it when possible in games they were selling, is going to make these companies some money.

So while I'm out of ideas as to how we could steer that ship off course, I don't really blame the industry for handling things the way they did. It's a shame though they didn't figure out the young female audience soon enough, as it could have struck a balance.

 

[Game Guru]

Porn in general is pretty much limited to their own sections no matter the medium because no normal retailer will sell it. This extends to Nintendo, Microsoft, Sony, and Valve not even letting those sorts of games be on their platforms, but it also means that people have to go to stores that cater to that stuff to find porno movies since Walmart's certainly not going to sell porno movies either. Thus for both games and film, they skirt the line as close as they can without crossing that line.

 

[viveks86]

Omega Labyrinth isn't any more indicative of the state of gaming than 50 Shades of Grey is of literature.

Not every single game, book, movie, TV show, play, song or comic has to appeal to everyone. They don't all have to take their respective medium forward, or take themselves seriously and contain subtlety and nuance.

He played a game that triggered a thought process. He makes a lot of valid points about how immature most games are when it comes to treating subjects like sex and nudity. That is a real issue worthy of debate. Where did he say that Omega Labyrinth is representative of the entire medium? Seems like a strawman argument to me.

Man, some people just have so much time to waste and content gaps to fill.

Is this a self referential post?

 

[Surface of Me]

Yeah, but video games are kind of like if almost every movie and TV show that had sexuality in it was Fifty Shades Of Grey or Piranha 3D.

Really now? Almost every videogame? That is straight up disengenuous and you know it. These games get more attention than those movies because no one is asking movies to "grow up". They see it as a stupid, silly movie.

 

[GamerJM]

I totally agree with the article, but I have no idea how games that are clearly designed with vivid images of sex in mind would ever be able to be sold at retailers. Like, I can't see a near future where AO games can be sold at retailers and can be viable sales hits. And that to me seems the only way to really fix the problem, or else there are going to be tons of immature games that basically porn-but-not-really so that teenagers can legally purchase them.

 

[Giever]

Yeah, I was expecting something more like this: http://tevisthompson.com/the-existential-art/

Wow, thanks for that link, was a great read.

 

[Foggy]

Why on earth would/should this embarrass someone who doesn't even play these games? Why would this even be misconstrued as representative of your interests? This reads as the more of the same naval-gazing that game journalists love to do.

 

[Ryuukan]

FYI he made a blog post about the Twitter hate he got already from this article

http://2-dimensions.com/2015/08/20/words-breast-left-unspoken/

Naturally, I was immediately hit by tweets and comments damning me for being so closed-minded about games where you rub phallic objects between the breasts of teenage girls with the ultimate aim of making those breasts grow to enormous sizes. I would have thought the current news climate would give most people pause about advocating games involving child molestation, but clearly I was mistaken.

 

[elhav]

For most markets you just move on, but the modern otaku market pretty much laid waste to a very hefty section of the niche Japanese landscape over the past so-many-years. It's worth lamenting for some (like me!). It has absolutely changed a lot of what I play and my buying habits. I've pretty much retreated from quite a bit of Japanese games due to it although I don't think that it is purely it's own problem, the Japanese market would still be hurting regardless.

Man though... that game sounds, uh... I mean a lifetime of Japanese entertainment and I'm still puzzled to the existence of this market. I understood when fanservice was a bit part, a random character or some shitty spin-off with no real mechanics. Despite some peoples need to lash out I *really* doubt it's a values thing for anyone it's just kinda weird how nowadays not only does it fairly consistently consume an entire otherwise completely legitimate product, but it's opened up it's own entire little lifestyle.

Tossing any snark aside It just seems like it would get so tiring, like... pancakes for every meal only the pancake took a little bit of your soul with it as they dumped on more and more sugar to appeal to the increasingly numb consumer!

I can't speak for others but that's how it sometimes comes off as awkward or gross, at least to me.

I like this post.

I don't really think this little niche game, or most japanese games in general, represent the entirety of the medium. However, this trend of over-sexualization in so many Japanese games makes me a little bummed.

I find far less interesting Japanese games these days because of it, and it's quite a shame. Not that there aren't some great games still coming out of Japan, obviously, but you get the point.

Luckily western games have much more variety and unique stuff to show nowadays than ever before, so at least there's that.

 

[Deleted member 126221]

To all those of you who insist the games mentioned are an exception, that it's like that in every medium, that there's a wide variety of games, etc., can you point out to me games that present sexuality in a non-juvenile way? I honestly can't think of any.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Really now? Almost every videogame? That is straight up disengenuous and you know it. These games get more attention than those movies because no one is asking movies to "grow up". They see it as a stupid, silly movie.

I didn't say every video game. Just every video game that tries to deal with sexuality. Most video games don't even broach the subject in the first place, but almost all of the ones that do don't do it from a very mature angle. It's almost always the type of sexuality that's there to appeal to teenagers. Which is fine to have, but shouldn't be the vast majority.

I can't think of many video games that deal with sexuality maturely, and there have been plenty of movies/books/TV shows that can deal with the subject.

 

[SolidSnakex]

To all those of you who insist the games mentioned are an exception, that it's like that in every medium, that there's a wide variety of games, etc., can you point out to me games that present sexuality in a non-juvenile way? I honestly can't think of any.

Silent Hill 2.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Because plenty of other entertainment mediums are already far more grown up, and there is no reason that video games shouldn't be held to the standard of other entertainment mediums.

Can one really regard the movie,music or literature mediums as grown up? Currently too much music and movies are too set up in the mindset of little boys and girls, literature is the only one I can say is sufficently grown up because it's goddamn ancient but it is still driven by the society it is drawn up from and that society likes to think it's grown up but I see far too much stupid shit to ever call it that.

Games also are different medium so not every rule it's set on can follow other things. It's not a century old and yet people are counting the eggs before they hatch.

This just comes off to me as whoever in the media is giving the medium and all in it too much credit.

 

[KnightHart]

I read that just after playing the Gal Gun 2 demo on my PS4

I'll play all the shitty smutty games I want thank you very much. You can't tell me how to enjoy my bad video games.

Also:

Muh Western sensibilities.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Can one really regard the movie,music or literature mediums as grown up? Currently too much music and movies are too set up in the mindset of little boys and girls, literature is the only one I can say is sufficently grown up because it's goddamn ancient but it is still driven by the society it is drawn up from and that society likes to think it's grown up but I see far too much stupid shit to ever call it that.

Games also are different medium so not every rule it's set on can follow other things. It's not a century old and yet people are counting the eggs before they hatch.

This just comes off to me as whoever in the media is giving the medium and all in it too much credit.

Maybe if all you watch is Hollywood blockbusters, but there are still plenty of movies that are there to make people think and aren't there to appeal to both adults and children.

Now, this isn't to say that these mediums don't have even more room to grow and mature, but if you're comparing them to video games, it's not even a contest of which medium has more varied options on how to deal with sexuality and other adult subjects.

And it's good that people are giving the medium too much credit, it means the standards for it are getting higher and that means that the medium is expected to mature and evolve. Expecting more of video games isn't a bad thing.

 

[IdreamofHIME]

Industry should totally grow up, just like the movie industry.
Look at the mature movie Fast 7 that just made a billion+ at the box office. The part in the movie where the action stopped and we had a scene with bikini babes at a race track, close ups of their asses, them fondling each other in slow motion and bikini boobs jiggling slowly was most necessary for the progression of the complicated multi teared narrative.

Come on games industry, grow the fuck up!

 

[MrDoctor]

Not even MGSV. MGS has always been more popular in the West, I believe.

It's still a major franchise over there with lots of attention given to the domestic market. Remember that the LE PS4 was initially announced only for Japan.

 

[Surface of Me]

Maybe if all you watch is Hollywood blockbusters, but there are still plenty of movies that are there to make people think and aren't there to appeal to both adults and children.

Now, this isn't to say that these mediums don't have even more room to grow and mature, but if you're comparing them to video games, it's not even a contest of which medium has more varied options on how to deal with sexuality and other adult subjects.

And it's good that people are giving the medium too much credit, it means the standards for it are getting higher and that means that the medium is expected to mature and evolve. Expecting more of video games isn't a bad thing.

It's also not even a contest comparing to video games which is the youngest medium.

 

[Zen_Arcade]

It's also not even a contest comparing to video games which is the youngest medium.

It being the youngest medium also means it has the most to draw off of as far as learning from other mediums. It's not like most of the video games narratives are vastly different from how movies have their stories laid out, especially these days, and it's not like they were working from scratch. The issue is a lack of talent in the industry as far as writing goes.

 

[Steel]

If his main point was about how a very very niche game is embarassing, then this article would be a waste of time. However, he makes a good point that it would probably be better if these games dropped the pretense and went the full porno-game route instead of skirting around it.

Porno exists, therefore cinema will never grow up as a medium.

The author's point was that this particular game would be better off going full porno instead of sleezing it up as much as possible without crossing arbitrary lines.

 

[chiimisu]

Omg it'so PROBLEMATIC

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The author's point was that this particular game would be better off going full porno instead of sleezing it up as much as possible without crossing arbitrary lines.

But it wouldn't be better off? If to make games is to make money, than having a game be restricted from being sold in the west and by major platform holders it would be the opposite of better of by being full porno.

 

[Steel]

But it wouldn't be better off? If to make games is to make money, than having a game be restricted from being sold in the west and by major platform holders it would be the opposite of better of by being full porno.

His point was that it would be better if platform holders didn't have those restrictions.

 

[ShinMaruku]

Maybe if all you watch is Hollywood blockbusters, but there are still plenty of movies that are there to make people think and aren't there to appeal to both adults and children.

Now, this isn't to say that these mediums don't have even more room to grow and mature, but if you're comparing them to video games, it's not even a contest of which medium has more varied options on how to deal with sexuality and other adult subjects.

And it's good that people are giving the medium too much credit, it means the standards for it are getting higher and that means that the medium is expected to mature and evolve. Expecting more of video games isn't a bad thing.

Expecting more of video games is calling for dissapointment.

 

[KuroPyonyo]

I don't want games to "grow up". The only reason I enjoy this medium is for stupid ridiculous fun.
I have no interesst in your artsy or mature stuff. Thats just a complete waste of time for me and you will never have me as a customer.

For all I care every single game can be improved by replacing the protagonist with a half naked school girl. At least I don't have to look at the ugly ass of snake or geralt then, bah.

 

[Yasumi]

FYI he made a blog post about the Twitter hate he got already from this article

http://2-dimensions.com/2015/08/20/words-breast-left-unspoken/

Implying that people who play these games are pedophiles? That's a new one.

 

[MHWilliams]

For all I care every single game can be improved by replacing the protagonist with a half naked school girl. At least I don't have to look at the ugly ass of snake or geralt then, bah.

See, I enjoy the blessed honesty of this poster.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

His point was that it would be better if platform holders didn't have those restrictions.

Even then there would still be a stigma attached to it. You don't see porn being sold at Wal-Mart, and you wouldn't see porn being sold on the Wii U or PS4.

 

[h#shdem0n]

nvm

 

[Zen_Arcade]

Expecting more of video games is calling for dissapointment.

Not expecting more from video games is just accepting that disappointment forever. Literally every artistic medium has evolved, there is no reason to not expect video games to evolve as well. Hell, they've already evolved, I don't know why you don't expect them to continue.

 

[RM8]

I don't understand why gaming being younger has any relevance. Games are played by people living in 2015 - we don't go back to the 70s when we play games.

 

[Cipherr]

Omega Labyrinth features a team of female warriors who go venturing into random dungeons in search of treasure, and as they grow in skill and power, their breasts increase in size, eventually straining against and even tearing through their costumes

Yeah, shit like this is just bizarre. I know the west has its own issues with violence and shooting and whatnot, but it doesn't stop me from pointing and laughing at other ridiculous shit elsewhere too.

 

[Steel]

Even then there would still be a stigma attached to it. You don't see porn being sold at Wal-Mart, and you wouldn't see porn being sold on the Wii U or PS4.

I know that, and I'm not so sure these types of games are well stocked in stores anyway so there's no real difference. His point was that the reason that these games treat women like objects is in lieu of being able to simply depict sex, but they're not allowed to and the author points that out as a problem.

 

[Robert at Zeboyd Games]

I'm annoyed that one of my favorite genres, first person dungeon crawlers, seem like magnets to this stuff. The games don't benefit from it at all and it makes me not want to buy them.

Not just dungeon crawlers but low budget JRPGs in general are crawling with this stuff these days. It's very annoying.