30yearsofhurt
Member
So OP watched a spoiler video and is now bleating that something got spoiled?
FMD
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VaatiVidya and the Souls Community
- Thread starter B-Genius
- Start date
To me the OP sounds like he got spoiled from the videos and now holds a grudge for Vaati even though he said at the start of the videos if you don't want to get spoiled close the videos and don't watch them. You even knew the 3rd video was going to contain huge spoilers yet you watched them anyway how is it his fault?
TeddyShardik
Banned
Didn't watch his videos for a long time. I never really liked his style of "telling me a story". Much of what he said in the videos I watched on DS 1 was just not very grounded in what you get through the game.
Always prefered ENB's approach of "here is this thing from the game and this is what I think it means".
Edit: That is not to say I think hos content is bad. Quite the opposite actually. His presentation is great.
About this case though, I don't think anyone should conplain about spoilers when they watch a playthrough of a game they're hyped about. I've read in another thread that his video titles were very spoilery and people subscribed to him woukd obviously see these though. That's not cool.
Always prefered ENB's approach of "here is this thing from the game and this is what I think it means".
Edit: That is not to say I think hos content is bad. Quite the opposite actually. His presentation is great.
About this case though, I don't think anyone should conplain about spoilers when they watch a playthrough of a game they're hyped about. I've read in another thread that his video titles were very spoilery and people subscribed to him woukd obviously see these though. That's not cool.
TatteredHat
Member
I know who the guy is and I've seen some of his videos and I'm not a big fan, but I always go on a complete content blackout for Souls games so it doesn't affect me at all.
He knows exactly the kind of content he wants to produce. His Walkthrough of DS1 years after it came out was great.
I don't see the problem, in a playthrough video i'm expecting spoilers of course, and if i want to avoid them i just don't watch those videos until i have played the game and come up with my own theories.
It's not like you're forced to watch every video he makes as soon as it comes online.
It's not like you're forced to watch every video he makes as soon as it comes online.
If one wants to discover the secrets of Souls on their own, they shouldn't watch a video that delves into said secrets.
Vaati doesn't seem like a member of the press. He seems like a fan who is obsessed with Souls and trying to glean everything he can from it, and then share it with the rest of the Souls community. No one fan will figure out everything, so at the end of the day he's just another voice in the discussion, and that's fine.
As for his style, it doesn't seem condescending or pretentious. I think he just has a deep reverence for the material and he tries to strike a tone that matches it. More importantly, it's unique and makes him stand out from the crowd. Personally, I think it's unintentionally funny, but then again, so is a lot of Souls dialogue!
He makes quality work. I just hope he properly sources his stuff so we know when something is his own observation vs. someone else's. He owes his fellow fans that much.
Vaati doesn't seem like a member of the press. He seems like a fan who is obsessed with Souls and trying to glean everything he can from it, and then share it with the rest of the Souls community. No one fan will figure out everything, so at the end of the day he's just another voice in the discussion, and that's fine.
As for his style, it doesn't seem condescending or pretentious. I think he just has a deep reverence for the material and he tries to strike a tone that matches it. More importantly, it's unique and makes him stand out from the crowd. Personally, I think it's unintentionally funny, but then again, so is a lot of Souls dialogue!
He makes quality work. I just hope he properly sources his stuff so we know when something is his own observation vs. someone else's. He owes his fellow fans that much.
Believe it or not there is a section of the fanbase that hates him because he helped with a guide. They started calling him epic shill bro lmao.
Zank Frappa
Banned
If you want to drown out the voices and posts that agree with OP for the sake of making a "general consensus" argument, then sure, go ahead.
Yes, you're right. FROM should had to have some kind of NDA about big spoilers.
This is probably more about Vaati, as a Souls fan, should spill the beans or hold it atleast until the game is released, even with no NDA.
OP has proved to know his shit about FROM games so It's not about that. As I said he probably knows more than Vaati.
I think it's wonderful that strat guide publishers hire fans, especially in a franchise where individual interpretation is so valuable.
Razorback
Member
To me he's part of the Souls experience. I love the games, but I don't love love them. I don't have the time or inclination to piece the enigmatic story together. So when I play a souls game, I take in all the atmosphere but otherwise I have zero clue what is going on. Once I finish it, I go watch his videos. His tone and prose fit the FROM aesthetic pretty nicely too.
I've never bothered to watch a souls lore video myself, but I can understand where a lot of people run into issues.
Some people get into a habit of following their favourite youtubers/streamers and become engrossed in the culture and community surrounding the channel, then the broadcaster does something out of their usual style or crosses some unwritten individual line and we end up with posts like the OP and the youtube comment string above. People become alienated suddenly from the content and community they have become a part of because they both want to experience it unspoiled but also want to remain part of the community which sometimes makes these games a bigger thing than they are, through overwhelming positivity and excitement.
In my personal experience, if a streamer I like is playing a game I want to play and experience without any previous knowledge, I just tune out and maybe watch a VOD when I'm done with it if I really want to see their impressions, experience and how the community surrounding them reacted to it, though I can see why it would be hard for some people.
Some people get into a habit of following their favourite youtubers/streamers and become engrossed in the culture and community surrounding the channel, then the broadcaster does something out of their usual style or crosses some unwritten individual line and we end up with posts like the OP and the youtube comment string above. People become alienated suddenly from the content and community they have become a part of because they both want to experience it unspoiled but also want to remain part of the community which sometimes makes these games a bigger thing than they are, through overwhelming positivity and excitement.
In my personal experience, if a streamer I like is playing a game I want to play and experience without any previous knowledge, I just tune out and maybe watch a VOD when I'm done with it if I really want to see their impressions, experience and how the community surrounding them reacted to it, though I can see why it would be hard for some people.
Jormunaattori
Member
Boss names in the video titles was uncool move. Minor but still.
Star Falcon
Member
He talks like he is narrating a story for children, I don't really like it. His niche obviously has its audience given his number of viewers, but I prefer to play Souls quite isolated from communities as that's part of the atmosphere for me.
Lanrutcon
Member
Define "big spoiler" in a way that can be identified and measured.
What's nothing to me is a huge spoiler to the guy next to me, is what I'm saying.
Dragon Puncher
Member
This. And let's be honest here, there will probably be tons of other stuff to discover in DSIII.
Zank Frappa
Banned
It does because he embellishes his voice and tone to fit the narrative.
The market wills it.
So OP has played DS3 then as Vaati did? I doubt in regards to DS3 he knows more from him.
The Xtortionist
Member
Vaati could disappear tomorrow and I guarantee everything in his third video would be all over the internet pre-release thanks to early copies. And that's not even including the Japanese launch.
As far as his decisive tone...it's really up to the community to counter with their own opinions. If Vaati offers some insight, and the community takes it as being definitive...that's kind of on them - regardless of Vaati's tone. Just imo.
As far as his decisive tone...it's really up to the community to counter with their own opinions. If Vaati offers some insight, and the community takes it as being definitive...that's kind of on them - regardless of Vaati's tone. Just imo.
I didn't watch the video but I saw some big names dropped in the DS3 thread.
I shouldn't be the one talking about OP like this, but he always had a lot of insider info about FROM games, including DS3.
Jugendstil
Member
There are plenty valid reasons to dislike Vaati, but holding him accountable for spoilers in his videos is a reach. His content is specifically lore-focused, it's what he's known for and how he makes his living. Even if a lot of people on NeoGAF dislike him and his approach, he has a huge following that look to him for that kind of content. Obviously he's going to focus on uncovering as much as he can in his preview videos. It's basically his job. I don't like most of his videos, but can begrudgingly admit his DS3 preview videos got me more hyped than any of the others I've seen come out of the preview events.
The Xtortionist
Member
That third vid got me like
I'm glad I watched it, but I'm done with DS3 media now. Game's gonna be fucking bonkers.
HappyBivouac
Member
So the publisher holds an event specifically designed for video creators like Vaati to record and commentate on their findings in the game. OP criticizes a popular YouTube personality for... doing exactly that.
When you remove that nonsense, you pretty much get "I don't like his tone."
I'm on blackout at this point so I'll hopefully be avoiding all spoilers. It's not like he's some kid spamming twitch chat with his spoilers. You know what you're getting into when you watch the video.
When you remove that nonsense, you pretty much get "I don't like his tone."
I'm on blackout at this point so I'll hopefully be avoiding all spoilers. It's not like he's some kid spamming twitch chat with his spoilers. You know what you're getting into when you watch the video.
All I needed to see was (weird new boss spoiler)That third vid got me like
I'm glad I watched it, but I'm done with DS3 media now. Game's gonna be fucking bonkers.
the Cursed Greatwood
Basically, I have my Gaping Dragon equivalent (that looks nothing like Gaping Dragon), and I'm hype now!
clay_ghost
Member
I just don't like his voice, too fake. No one is forcing anyone to watch the video though.
I think its unfair to say he's not part of the souls community. I think he is but there's no doubt tension about his presence within the community because of the way he has conducted himself.
Personally I think his videos are well produced and of high quality but it hard to trust a guy who admitted to plagiarizing. I have a problem with that and with the way he's handled his patreon which is equally as damning and because of those two things I don't rush to watch his videos.
Personally I think his videos are well produced and of high quality but it hard to trust a guy who admitted to plagiarizing. I have a problem with that and with the way he's handled his patreon which is equally as damning and because of those two things I don't rush to watch his videos.
it's not his voice, it's his "voice" and the way he talks.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
He just comes across as exceptionally fake. It was his EITR video recently that tipped the balance and I can't listen to anything he does anymore. He does this low tone, early morning car salesman shtick and its insufferable. Dunno if that video was a bought up promotion but it actually did the opposite as all the "this is just like Souls and thats okay" parts of his script set my skin on edge. It was sleezy x9000.
DoubleTake
Member
I watched the third vid and saw the hidden mechanic. I'm not particularly bothered by it because we don't really know how it works.
The first souls lore video i watched was a Vaati one. I cant lie and say i don't owe part of my interest in it to his past work. But eventually I "graduated" to better thought out and, in my opinion, less pretentious members of the lore community. Vaati is basically baby's first lore look. There are many different content providers who go more in depth with their analysis.
Redgrave who wrote the 90 page Paleblood hunt(which Vaati plagiarized from), Aegon of Astora and Jerks Sans Frontierres who post hours long Bloodborne lore videos, EpicNameBro who was my first taste of actual in depth analysis.
All those people go a bit past the surface level that Vaati scratches, albeit losing the quick-fix "sexy" voice and presentation. But people will like what they like I suppose.
Even better than any of that is discovering things on your own. So many of us want to re live our first Souls experience but we cant get over the draw to more immediate knowledge of the game. Im one of those people, its why I watched the videos and why this wait is killing me.
But if youre new to the series I would always tell you to experience the games through your own uninfluenced lens. That includes bosses and Lore interpretation.
The first souls lore video i watched was a Vaati one. I cant lie and say i don't owe part of my interest in it to his past work. But eventually I "graduated" to better thought out and, in my opinion, less pretentious members of the lore community. Vaati is basically baby's first lore look. There are many different content providers who go more in depth with their analysis.
Redgrave who wrote the 90 page Paleblood hunt(which Vaati plagiarized from), Aegon of Astora and Jerks Sans Frontierres who post hours long Bloodborne lore videos, EpicNameBro who was my first taste of actual in depth analysis.
All those people go a bit past the surface level that Vaati scratches, albeit losing the quick-fix "sexy" voice and presentation. But people will like what they like I suppose.
Even better than any of that is discovering things on your own. So many of us want to re live our first Souls experience but we cant get over the draw to more immediate knowledge of the game. Im one of those people, its why I watched the videos and why this wait is killing me.
But if youre new to the series I would always tell you to experience the games through your own uninfluenced lens. That includes bosses and Lore interpretation.
Look! The Pie!
Member
When did "Vaati's accent is fake" become a thing? Seems like a ridiculous thing to criticise the guy for TBH.
As for his videos, I enjoy them. I love how story is delivered in the Souls games but sometimes have difficulty piecing some of the more obtuse aspects of the lore together, so I welcome any attempt by others to do so. His presentation (and voice, unf) are just bonuses. Having said that, I'm on blackout for DS3 so fortunately haven't seen this supposedly huge spoiler.
As for his videos, I enjoy them. I love how story is delivered in the Souls games but sometimes have difficulty piecing some of the more obtuse aspects of the lore together, so I welcome any attempt by others to do so. His presentation (and voice, unf) are just bonuses. Having said that, I'm on blackout for DS3 so fortunately haven't seen this supposedly huge spoiler.
Melchiah
Member
Yeah. I haven't watched any of the videos, outside of official trailers. I even refrained from watching the opening cinematic, as seeing it on the release date is an important part of the experience for me.
I can certainly understand being pissed about stumbling onto spoilers unexpectedly, but if you deliberately watch his videos before the release, you're bound to discover things you wouldn't know otherwise.
Red Liquorice
Member
I don't watch his videos, the style of his videos isn't really my thing. But I know a lot of people love his stuff, so I think there's room for every style of video.
Personally my Souls itch is scratched by ENB, A German Spy and LobosJr and that's pretty much all I need for constant Souls youtube goodies. SunlightBlade does some unique stuff too but I'm not in to PvP so only check his videos out periodically. There's loads of Souls youtubers and streamers and they all bring something different to the table, Vaati included.
Personally my Souls itch is scratched by ENB, A German Spy and LobosJr and that's pretty much all I need for constant Souls youtube goodies. SunlightBlade does some unique stuff too but I'm not in to PvP so only check his videos out periodically. There's loads of Souls youtubers and streamers and they all bring something different to the table, Vaati included.
Right, let's consider the other arguments like "His voice sounds fake" and "I don't like the way he talks to me in his videos like I'm stupid"
You don't like his videos! Ok! Then stop going around in circles like others have pointed out and end it yourself by not watching! BREAK THE CYCLE OF LIGHT AND DARK AND WALK AWAY FROM IGNITING THE FLAME! The content isn't going to change because guess what? It works EXTREMELY well for what he wants to do, and it's changed from where he started to where he is now because he tailored it specifically to what everyone liked about it most. Unfortunately, there are those who that doesn't mix well with, you can't please everyone.
Red Liquorice
Member
Can I just say I honestly think the backlash started when he first did a video showing his face and people went "Damn, this boy has model looks! He can't be a video game dork like me it's not fair!"
Pros
- High quality production. (He's got the best DS3 videos so far)
Cons
- Massively pretentious.
- In the past, has completely fabricated emotional/narrative lore elements of Souls games in order to present a bullshit story that doesn't really exist. Most recently, Cleric Beast is Laurence (presented as fact). This is his biggest offence, IMO.
- In turn, this has propelled the idea that Souls games are "Choose-your-own-Adventure", ignoring the delicately placed story and lore elements within the game in favour of sappy/cringey stories. (Just look at the way /r/darksouls completely devolved).
- He plagiarised someone's hard work.
I did notice however in his Dark Souls 3 vieos that he was noting where he received his sources for lore additions. This is a path forward. Now, if he could stop being so self-serious.
ENB is better because of how easy-going is. The dude was doing lore videos befoe anyone else and somehow predicted the lore/story that Artorias of the Abyss DLC eventually told.
- High quality production. (He's got the best DS3 videos so far)
Cons
- Massively pretentious.
- In the past, has completely fabricated emotional/narrative lore elements of Souls games in order to present a bullshit story that doesn't really exist. Most recently, Cleric Beast is Laurence (presented as fact). This is his biggest offence, IMO.
- In turn, this has propelled the idea that Souls games are "Choose-your-own-Adventure", ignoring the delicately placed story and lore elements within the game in favour of sappy/cringey stories. (Just look at the way /r/darksouls completely devolved).
- He plagiarised someone's hard work.
I did notice however in his Dark Souls 3 vieos that he was noting where he received his sources for lore additions. This is a path forward. Now, if he could stop being so self-serious.
ENB is better because of how easy-going is. The dude was doing lore videos befoe anyone else and somehow predicted the lore/story that Artorias of the Abyss DLC eventually told.
I don't take issue with it, because you know (or should know) what you're getting into when watching those vids. They're going to be spoiler-heavy, and he's allowed to extract as much out of the content he's been given. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't watch the videos. Or watch footage that's more gameplay-focused, since his vids tend to be lore-heavy, immediately spoiling a bunch of stuff. That being said, I was surprised how much he was able to find in that third vid. Impressive he did all that in the 3-4 hours given.
Emedan
Member
You assume everyone who plays these games have the time and motivation to do the detective work it demands to figure out the story themselves.
I certainly don't have patience to scour every inch of the game world and go through all dialogues, so I enjoy it very much that others do so for me. That doesn't mean I have to interpret everything they say the way they present it either, I have many of my own theories of course.
My point being people can enjoy these games, the world and the story immensely without having to discover everything for themselves. I love the implications and dread of the souls world but by God I don't have the time it demands to really discover everything for myself.
That said, I've only seen the odd video from this guy, I've followed ENB this whole time.
I certainly don't have patience to scour every inch of the game world and go through all dialogues, so I enjoy it very much that others do so for me. That doesn't mean I have to interpret everything they say the way they present it either, I have many of my own theories of course.
My point being people can enjoy these games, the world and the story immensely without having to discover everything for themselves. I love the implications and dread of the souls world but by God I don't have the time it demands to really discover everything for myself.
That said, I've only seen the odd video from this guy, I've followed ENB this whole time.
I'm not sure how to respond to this thread because the OP is ridiculous and most the haters don't have a cogent point.
To OP - Vaati has a thing he does that he always does and always has done. He built his channel on lore explanation videos. "Prepare to cry" is what started it all. He put together a lore picture and used it to tell a story about the various NPCs in the original Dark Souls.
This is what he does. Clearly if you don't want spoilers, don't watch gameplay videos of the game you don't want spoiled. If you don't want to hear discussions of lore, definitely don't watch Vaati, because that's what he does. That's his jarb.
What?
I'm not sure how to respond to the haterism except to say that he has never seemed like a liar or arrogant or an asshole or whatever else to me. Many of us find him calming. We like his presentation style. If you don't, that's fine, but some of the replies here don't speak well of the posters.
This is my favorite fucking reply.
Yeah, it's easy to build a fanbase that'll support your creations. The videos don't take any time at all to write and record and edit... Requires no effort or talent... So GO DO IT! What's fucking stopping you?
I'm willing to bet that Vaati spends more than 40 hours a week working on his channel. Some of his videos clearly took dozens of hours to put together.
The people making good money on Patreon are the people who built something. You build something through effort and dedication and hard work and having the talent to make something people enjoy. If it was just free money for anyone, then go get it. Go get yours. It's waiting.
To OP - Vaati has a thing he does that he always does and always has done. He built his channel on lore explanation videos. "Prepare to cry" is what started it all. He put together a lore picture and used it to tell a story about the various NPCs in the original Dark Souls.
This is what he does. Clearly if you don't want spoilers, don't watch gameplay videos of the game you don't want spoiled. If you don't want to hear discussions of lore, definitely don't watch Vaati, because that's what he does. That's his jarb.
What?
I'm not sure how to respond to the haterism except to say that he has never seemed like a liar or arrogant or an asshole or whatever else to me. Many of us find him calming. We like his presentation style. If you don't, that's fine, but some of the replies here don't speak well of the posters.
This is my favorite fucking reply.
Yeah, it's easy to build a fanbase that'll support your creations. The videos don't take any time at all to write and record and edit... Requires no effort or talent... So GO DO IT! What's fucking stopping you?
I'm willing to bet that Vaati spends more than 40 hours a week working on his channel. Some of his videos clearly took dozens of hours to put together.
The people making good money on Patreon are the people who built something. You build something through effort and dedication and hard work and having the talent to make something people enjoy. If it was just free money for anyone, then go get it. Go get yours. It's waiting.
cripterion
Member
I hate the souls game but by watching his videos, it actually makes me want to go through the games... Even if I don't end up playing DS3 (like I did with 1 & 2), I already know I'll buy the game, and that's just by watching his 3 part series.
He presents the lore very well and makes the series seem really interesting imo.
He presents the lore very well and makes the series seem really interesting imo.
I am Error
Member
Isn't that exactly what most people want when they watch his channel? You shouldn't forget that there are a lot of people out there, who don't have the time/patience/interest/intelligence etc. to dive in to the complex lore and discover everything by themselves. They just want everything presented to them, in tiny but understandable bits. I personally think that he is just catering to this demand with his episodes.