Support NeoGAF

[csquared587]

If this type of controller catches on it could lead to more genres on consoles. They would be able to get real Civ games, RTS, etc if it works as well if it is supposed to.

 

[Horse Detective]

"makes FPS gaming more comfortable in a gamepad form factor, and translates other genres (anything where you'd need precise mouse control for gameplay or user interface) to the living room."

I just breathed a sigh of relief while reading that. I hate FPS gaming with current controller options.

 

[Cpt Conifer]

I really don't get the continual hate of auto-aim in FPS, and the infatuation people have with doing it themselves. You might as well hate lock-on mechanics in general, like those in ZOE or Virtual On as well. The pleasure for comes from working WITH the machine; I still control all the interesting (ie TACTICAL) aspects, it's just that the computer does my dishes for me. The actual act of aiming is supposed to be the boring part, you clowns. It's the menial labor part of the game. There's an idea for you to ruminate over.

So that being said, if gamers and devs still want to feel so strongly about this, and continue to strip it out of PC versions or otherwise keep the controller support intentionally bad, I'm sort of interested in this controller because I refuse to use the kbm anymore. Otherwise, I can't wait to get an XBO controller in 2014, or even better, see if Hori offers an alternative.

 

[Grief.exe]

This looks really cool and I can't wait to use it and see the haptics thing for myself. However, am I the only one that has actually been using a wireless mouse and keyboard and my PC on the living room tv? It is pretty great.

That is the great thing about PC. Use what you want, what makes you more comfortable.

I feel like having multiple Steam Controllers will be easier for multiple players than M/KB set ups.

 

[AlteredBeast]

Heh.

Don't blame me, blame the people who designed this atrocity.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Any videos of someone using this controller?

 

[spirity]

The skepticism I get. But some people appear to be hostile towards this controller. That I don't understand, especially when there's positive reports coming in from devs who have used it. What are people afraid of lol

 

[Grief.exe]

Don't blame me, blame the people who designed this atrocity.

Are you going to make a legitimate argument at some point? Or are you going to continue to fill the thread with bile because you are incapable?

 

[Horse Detective]

The skepticism I get. But some people appear to be hostile towards this controller. That I don't understand, especially when there's positive reports coming in from devs who have used it. What are people afraid of lol

It would be interesting if this initial hate disappears over time as more people pay attention to developer reviews.


That or everyone will continue disliking it and the whole thing will flop despite it being a well made project.

 

[dark_prinny]

Welcome to the land of choice console gamers, truce choice. In the console world, choice means letting you buy a different sku with a bigger hard drive. In this world, the destiny of mankind is controlled by some transcendental entity or law. It is like the hand of God hovering above. It is true that man has no control; even over his own will.

But in the PC world, and probably the steambox world, you use anything you want, you use you sega saturn usb for fighting games, you use your CH flighstick for space sims, and you use the mouse/kb for everything else as it is the best. But you don't have to use the best the choice is all yours. Your gaming pleasure will not hinge on the effectiveness of this controller. I doubt i'd ever buy one of these, but i like that they are trying something different. If it's crap who cares i have a controller for every type of game. Why do i , because i bought them 10 years ago, and they still work with my current pc just as they did with my last 3.

 

[csquared587]

The skepticism I get. But some people appear to be hostile towards this controller. That I don't understand, especially when there's positive reports coming in from devs who have used it. What are people afraid of lol

I dont get it either. Nothing bad can come from this controller being great. If it is bad, everyone continues playing games like they always have.

 

[Horse Detective]

Making your intentions clear with gif responses is really hit or miss these days.

 

[valouris]

Also, from the SMB dev interview, from what I understand there actually are buttons in the right trackpad (or a dev can choose to represent buttons there I guess), right where the traditional 4 buttons are, and you can sorta feel them with the haptics system. What I didn't get was whether you press them by tapping there, or just by having your finger on. Sorry if this has been mentioned/clarified before.

If I am understanding this correctly, you can basically represent anything you want on the trackpads using haptics, and devs may use this to up the immersion. Like I don't know, have switches or cranks or levers or gears there and stuff. It would of course depend of how good the trackpads and their resolution ends up being.Am I missing something?

 

[Alien Bob]

Making your intentions clear with gif responses is really hit or miss these days.

dark_prinny has been missing the mark with his responses for a while now

 

[nded]

The actual act of aiming is supposed to be the boring part, you clowns. It's the menial labor part of the game. There's an idea for you to ruminate over.

Yeah. Also, they should remove all physical input requirements from fighting games and allow me to play them with an interactive flowchart. I have the perfect strategy dogg, but my inability to move my character around effectively and do a dragon punch 100% of the time is unfairly keeping me from my rightful place in the tournament circuit.

 

[Grief.exe]

Also, from the SMB dev interview, from what I understand there actually are buttons in the right trackpad (or a dev can choose to represent buttons there I guess), right where the traditional 4 buttons are, and you can sorta feel them with the haptics system. What I didn't get was whether you press them by tapping there, or just by having your finger on. Sorry if this has been mentioned/clarified before.

If I am understanding this correctly, you can basically represent anything you want on the trackpads using haptics, and devs may use this to up the immersion. Like I don't know, have switches or cranks or levers or gears there and stuff. It would of course depend of how good the trackpads and their resolution ends up being.Am I missing something?

Sounds like the end user can set up these profiles themselves as well.

Yeah. Also, they should remove all physical input requirements from fighting games and allow me to play them with an interactive flowchart. I have the perfect strategy dogg, but my inability to move my character around effectively and do a dragon punch 100% of the time is unfairly keeping me from my rightful place in the tournament circuit.

$10 says his favorite game is Call of Duty.

 

[SparkTR]

The skepticism I get. But some people appear to be hostile towards this controller. That I don't understand, especially when there's positive reports coming in from devs who have used it. What are people afraid of lol

They don't want the status quo changed. PC gaming is over there, console gaming is over here. Valve is attempting to bridge a gap that people don't want bridged.

Also, from the SMB dev interview, from what I understand there actually are buttons in the right trackpad (or a dev can choose to represent buttons there I guess), right where the traditional 4 buttons are, and you can sorta feel them with the haptics system. What I didn't get was whether you press them by tapping there, or just by having your finger on. Sorry if this has been mentioned/clarified before.

If I am understanding this correctly, you can basically represent anything you want on the trackpads using haptics, and devs may use this to up the immersion. Like I don't know, have switches or cranks or levers or gears there and stuff. It would of course depend of how good the trackpads and their resolution ends up being.Am I missing something?

There's one physical button on each pad (like with any regular analogue stick), but depending on where you're finger is when you press it down, it registers a different command. At least that's how I understand it.

 

[EasyMode]

The actual act of aiming is supposed to be the boring part

Yes, I'm sure the developers of these games intended for the executional requirements of gameplay to be boring. Ruminate over the idea that people might enjoy both the tactical and execution aspects of a game, and feel it would be a lesser experience if it was simply one or the other.

 

[The Librarian]

Don't blame me, blame the people who designed this atrocity.

You know, it's posts like yours that have made this thread more a chore than being enjoyable to read through. Can't you better articulate your thoughts or hold off on judging it like you have until you try it?

 

[SaggyMonkey]

All of the skepticism is silly. Like Valve won't support mouse/keyboard on a SteamOS. Sometimes you might prefer an option to use a new interface, sometimes not.

I am sorta excited we might have a good substitute for classic paddle style games like Arkanoid or Warlords.

 

[syko de4d]

I dont get it either. Nothing bad can come from this controller being great. If it is bad, everyone continues playing games like they always have.

i think some are afraid of a PC maybe having a superior controller.

 

[valouris]

They don't want the status quo changed. PC gaming is over there, console gaming is over here. Valve is attempting to bridge a gap that people don't want bridged.



There's one physical button on each pad (like with any regular analogue stick), but depending on where you're finger is when you press it down, it registers a different command. At least that's how I understand it.

I'm not talking about physical buttons. He says that he could like feel the edges of buttons on the trackpad with the haptics system where you would expect the four buttons to be.

 

[Clawww]

any pics of the back?

buttons on the back is a missed opportunity for microsoft and sony... huge missed opportunity

agreed, drives me crazy that they don't have it. and also that there's no built in OS-level key-binding.

 

[Haunted]

Not to go too enthusiastic on the Valve cocksucking here, but I'm really thrilled that they apparently have rethought the very fundamentals of controller design with this. I got shouted down a couple months back when I openly questioned why we still had a d-pad on our controllers and what the "stick + 4 buttons" design on each side of the controller was really for - the most common reply was "that's just how it is" and I was a bit down that it felt like I couldn't think these ideas through to their conclusion with others.

Now Valve comes out with their vision and it's basically telling me "yeah bro, we wondered about that, too" when no one else really wanted to hear about it. No matter if it's going to be a success or a spectacular failure, it kinda makes me want to cheer for them.

 

[Grief.exe]

I'm not talking about physical buttons. He says that he could like feel the edges of buttons on the trackpad with the haptics system where you would expect the four buttons to be.

This is correct, read the impressions.

You can set the track pads to four 'buttons.' You can choose the left stick to be a D-Pad and the right to be 4 face buttons.
The haptic feedback mimics the feel of physical hardware underneath. Interesting stuff.

 

[eot]

I really don't get the continual hate of auto-aim in FPS, and the infatuation people have with doing it themselves. You might as well hate lock-on mechanics in general, like those in ZOE or Virtual On as well. The pleasure for comes from working WITH the machine; I still control all the interesting (ie TACTICAL) aspects, it's just that the computer does my dishes for me. The actual act of aiming is supposed to be the boring part, you clowns. It's the menial labor part of the game. There's an idea for you to ruminate over.

So that being said, if gamers and devs still want to feel so strongly about this, and continue to strip it out of PC versions or otherwise keep the controller support intentionally bad, I'm sort of interested in this controller because I refuse to use the kbm anymore. Otherwise, I can't wait to get an XBO controller in 2014, or even better, see if Hori offers an alternative.

That's like saying the fun part of a racing game is only picking your racing line, not actually executing on it.

 

[Clawww]

Not to go too enthusiastic on the Valve cocksucking here, but I'm really thrilled that they apparently have rethought the very fundamentals of controller design with this. I got shouted down a couple months back when I openly questioned why we still had a d-pad on our controllers and what the "stick + 4 buttons" design on each side of the controller was really for - the most common reply was "that's just how it is" and I was a bit down that I didn't feel like I could think these ideas through to their conclusion with others.

Now Valve comes out with their vision and it's basically telling me "yeah bro, we wondered about that, too" when no one else really wanted to hear about it. No matter if it's going to be a success or a spectacular failure, it kinda makes me want to cheer for them.

gaben got your back bruh

 

[Starchasing]

Also, from the SMB dev interview, from what I understand there actually are buttons in the right trackpad (or a dev can choose to represent buttons there I guess), right where the traditional 4 buttons are, and you can sorta feel them with the haptics system. What I didn't get was whether you press them by tapping there, or just by having your finger on. Sorry if this has been mentioned/clarified before.

If I am understanding this correctly, you can basically represent anything you want on the trackpads using haptics, and devs may use this to up the immersion. Like I don't know, have switches or cranks or levers or gears there and stuff. It would of course depend of how good the trackpads and their resolution ends up being.Am I missing something?

There is a mechanical button in the trackpads, but since its a touch pad, the software can recognize that you pressed the button and in what part of the trackpad.

 

[Trojita]

This controller looks really interesting and I think it will work really well. I said the trackpads would work well and be utilitarian. It seems the developer previews confirm my view.

I'm more suspect about the button placement to be honest. It is honestly nice that it is symmetrical for left handed users, but it still looks odd and from just looking at it not ergonomic to use.

Valve has been studying controllers for 2+ years at least. People should remember seeing pictures of the Steam office with weird controllers on worker's desks.

 

[Grief.exe]

This controller looks really interesting and I think it will work really well. I said the trackpads would work well and be utilitarian. It seems the developer previews confirm my view.

I'm more suspect about the button placement to be honest. It is honestly nice that it is symmetrical for left handed users, but it still looks odd and from just looking at it not ergonomic to use.

Valve has been studying controllers for 2+ years at least. People should remember seeing pictures of the Steam office with weird controllers on worker's desks.

You are going to have to retrain your muscle memory for this one.

It is incredibly obvious, at least to me, that the face buttons are meant for non-essential tasks. Something like opening your inventory screen, or a gesture menu.

The triggers, buttons on the back, and the trackpad buttons can all be used without even lifting your thumbs from the trackpads.
The A and B buttons can still be reached from the right pad while still retaining movement control.

Its also important to note that you can configure the haptic feedback and trackpads to mimic physical face buttons if your game does not require a right stick. Very interesting technology.

This picture helps visualize this placement.

 

[MaLDo]

Prototype 5 says hello

 

[Trojita]

You are going to have to retrain your muscle memory for this one.

It is incredibly obvious, at least to me, that the face buttons are meant for non-essential tasks. Something like opening your inventory screen, or a gesture menu.

The triggers, buttons on the back, and the trackpad buttons can all be used without even lifting your thumbs from the trackpads.
The A and B buttons can still be reached from the right pad while still retaining movement control.

Its also important to note that you can configure the haptic feedback and trackpads to mimic physical face buttons if your game does not require a right stick. Very interesting technology.

This picture helps visualize this placement.

Let's do a use case on a different game like Witcher 1.

The two track pads would be for moving and looking around. Where would we place the attack button? On the track pad or on the other buttons next to the track pad?

 

[The Cowboy]

So the question is, do the trackpads support multitouch?, if the right trackpad can be setup to act as standard 4 face button layout, can it be made so that it will register pressing all 4 at once (or at least 2)?.

 

[Kansoku]

The more I see the controller, the more I want to use it.
I looks like everything I want from a PC gamepad.

I hope they announce a target price and release date soon.

 

[KHarvey16]

I already read this.

It's worrying that they are still fucking around with firmware compilations instead of having a proper configuration system. Also, that they hadn't noticed that their tv had lag when they are tasked with testing a controller. Also, their touchscreen doesn't work yet.

While the hardware sounds almost ready for prime time, the software sounds like it needs a lot of work.

It looks exactly like product development and none of it is worrying.

 

[Omikaru]

I can't wait to play Deus Ex on my HDTV with this. Goddamnit this looks so awesome.

I'm happy with my current PC hardware, so I doubt I'll buy a Steam Machine, but I am sold on this controller. Will be pre-ordering the second it's available.

 

[Tobor]

Let's do a use case on a different game like Witcher 1.

The two track pads would be for moving and looking around. Where would we place the attack button? On the track pad or on the other buttons next to the track pad?

Attack would go on the right trigger or bumper. Easy.

 

[Grief.exe]

Let's do a use case on a different game like Witcher 1.

The two track pads would be for moving and looking around. Where would we place the attack button? On the track pad or on the other buttons next to the track pad?

Left-click — the left-mouse-click is used for most activities in the game like attacking, picking things up, talking to NPCs, etc.
Right-click — the right-mouse-click is used for witcher signs.

I would put the attack on left trigger and signs on right trigger to mimic the M/KB controls.

(In reality I would probably reverse those controls since we are used to using right trigger for attack, but in the interest of discussion I kept them similar)

 

[Trojita]

Attack would go on the right trigger or bumper. Easy.

Is that how it is on 360? I don't know if I like that.

 

[Baroquemantic]

I still think something like this old BodieLobus trackball controller would be great, and could be even cooler if someone created a mechanism to switch it out with an analog stick and/or some other control methods.

I actually pre-ordered this thing back when it was first intoduced, but they never made it. At least they refunded people's money.

 

[Kansoku]

Let's do a use case on a different game like Witcher 1.

The two track pads would be for moving and looking around. Where would we place the attack button? On the track pad or on the other buttons next to the track pad?

I never played Witcher so I can't help you here. But for example, for Dark Souls I would put:

Left Trackpad - Move
Left Trackpad Button - 1-hand/2-hands toggle
Right Trackpad - Camera
Right Trackpad Button - Lock-On
Left Bumper/Trigger - Weak/Strong left hand item
Right Bumper/Trigger - Weak/Strong right hand item
Left Grip - Dodge
Right Grip - Use Item
A/B - Change Item/Magic
X/Y - Change Left/Right hand item
Bottom left small button - Menu
Bottom right small button - Gesture menu

And there would be the bottom big button and the touch button left.

 

[Ashes]

Atomski wrote a great reply to your statement.



Its funny because you hit the nail on the head later, but you can't wrap your head around it.

Hey, what's with all the patronising? ;-)

If it works, great. Anyways, how do you think it will fare, playing fps on the couch? Better than analogue sticks? Or close enough to be a good alternative? Actually what are the advantages over dual analogue sticks?

 

[AllIsOneIsNone]

This thread makes me both embarassed and proud to be a gaffer at the same time. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that many people who lock themselves in their room all day playing games are afraid of change.

It's always nice to see interest and hope though, we're going for a little ride and there's nothing you can say to stop us. Imagining the possibilities with this and the Oculus Rift in congruence makes me a happy man.

 

[Tobor]

Is that how it is on 360? I don't know if I like that.

Anything that would be on the left/right mouse buttons should go on the triggers and bumpers, IMO. That way you can easily access them while keeping your thumbs on the pads.

 

[J2d]

In this world, the destiny of mankind is controlled by some transcendental entity or law. It is like the hand of God hovering above. It is true that man has no control; even over his own will.

Igotthisreference.jpg

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

I posted this yesterday, now this is in second on the frontpage of Reddit:
http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/1nalg5/innovation_isnt_always_immediately_accepted/

Coincidence?

One of the stupidest analogies I've seen. The thing is this quote has been used so many times for products that get a lot of negative feedback that its just used out of context. Does anyone seriously think that this controller is anyway analogous to the first mass production car that was affordable. (hint: its not).

Those buttons aren't meant to be used much, no more than to open an inventory or something like that. Aparently the main buttons are on the touchpads themselves (along with triggers). I believe that's where the haptics come it.

Main buttons and touchpads? Oh boy this just gets worse.

Those aren't the buttons you are looking for. They are equivalent to start/select, not primary means of control.

I see thanks for clarifying.

It's designed not to use sticks - until you try it how do you know it's a flaw? The input pads can be used as d-pad and as buttons - the thing is designed to improve ability to input multiple elements vs traditional controler which requires you to remove your thumb from the stick to press a button.

Is it really that hard to read their damn description of the device, their examples of using it for input and to think a bit.

It might be great it might not but claiming "obvious flaws" in the manner you and many are is plain silly - you (and I) have no idea. Although I note developers who've tried it are posting favourable comments - maybe they should stop using it and just look at a picture to realize it has serious flaws instead of actually going by the experience of using it.

Don't know what's happened to GAF on this one - it's like the old Ripley quote of IQs dropping. I'm beginning to think lots of console folks are just being negative because its different and a challenge from "outside" console world and PC folks are suspicious Valve is somehow abandoning them.

I see an attempt at something ambitious and arguably more daring than the new PS4/XB1 gamepads (although to be fair Sony and MS did have to be relativlely conservative with those)

Its obvious. Haptics will not provide as much grip as an analog stick.

 

[Nzyme32]

I really really like the controller in principle and the dev impressions give me optimism. Guess we all have to wait for beta testers to show it off. Worst case scenario for some game, just dig out an old controller.

Also. Yes, I am a child

 

[Big Takeover]

Hey, what's with all the patronising? ;-)

If it works, great. Anyways, how do you think it will fare, playing fps on the couch? Better than analogue sticks? Or close enough to be a good alternative? Actually what are the advantages over dual analogue sticks?

Ever tried playing multiplayer with a controller while everyone else is using KB&M? That's the gap they're trying to close. A traditional controller with it's needed aim assists, and slow turn speeds is much too low of a bar.

...The trackpads allow far higher fidelity input than has previously been possible with traditional handheld controllers. Steam gamers, who are used to the input associated with PCs, will appreciate that the Steam Controller’s resolution approaches that of a desktop mouse.

...In addition, games like first-person shooters that are designed around precise aiming within a large visual field now benefit from the trackpads’ high resolution and absolute position control.

 

[Grief.exe]

Its obvious. Haptics will not provide as much grip as an analog stick.

Sounds like the material that the trackpad is made out of is quite grippy, via impressions of the device.

There are also concentric circles on the trackpad to aid in grip.

 

[Breakfast at Noon]

fucking owl.