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Valve locks Dota 2 game modes behind Kickstarter-esque goals.
- Thread starter Archie
- Start date
So basically, just an excuse to attack Valve fans?
Mr Touchdown
Member
Ultimate - EXPLORE!: Removes fog of war for 10/20/30 seconds
Aghs upgrade - Permanent no Fog.
Hypocrites about what? What other game gives as much content for free as dota 2? Can you even name one?
That sounds broken. Make it flying vision or something.
iPad please...
Mr Touchdown
Member
NEVER!!
Hey guys, remember that time EA funded a 1.6 million dollar tournament for their F2P game, then released a digital program for it, with one fourth of the profits from that program being placed into the tournament's prize pool? And then remember all of those digital rewards that were unlocked as more people purchased these programs, including that game mode that they threw on there as one of the first rewards, because they knew it'd be unlocked within the first couple days of the campaign?
That was some EA-ass bullshit.
That was some EA-ass bullshit.
Nope, just pointing out the hypocrisy. Calling it an excuse implies you think its some unjustified comment with no reasoning behind it (And sort of further cements my point)
When a company like EA releases a totally f2p game with no pay to win or pay to skip the grind system with one of their biggest IPs/ well known games.
And then they do something like this, and then GAF jumps on them, you can call people hypocrites. Until then, you are basically arguing a reverse 'sony too'.
Also, Valve gets a pass on this forum? HAHAHAHAHAHAH, then you dont pay attention any of the large steam/valve threads, where everyone comes out of the woodwork to say how Valve doesn't make games (while they have made a game every year besides 2 years of their existence), and PC gamers are hypocrites because Xbox one DRM was just going to be steam.
hbkajshdvfbkjhvgkahsgdfka
Member
Just for the record, this "hypocrisy" is based on a scenario you made up in your head that is unlikely to happen in real life, right?
Digital goods are a lot about trust. If you don't trust the company to maintain the value of what you have, or to be fair with you in return, they can't offer a good enough deal. If you trust that they'll look out for you and give you good things, it's easy to give them leeway on stuff.
Valve has spent years earning that trust by being generous with free content, by making great games, and by strongly supporting their digital distribution service, and that's why they can get away with some things (like keys) that other companies would get reamed for. When people hate you, they'll find any reason they can to withhold their dollar. When people like you, they'll beg for opportunities to give you money.
Except you created a scenario that doesn't exist, and then assumed that the reaction to said fake scenario would be a negative one from valve fans.
But, you came to this thread to call (a lot of) Valve fans hypocrites.
When asked why is this kickstarter-esque plan is bad you said
So not even talking about the news or why it should be called bad.
The difference from a kickstarter is that a fully funded kickstarter isn't guaranteed release.
If these hit their goals the modes are definitely getting released.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Aw yeah, nothing like a classic strawman driveby.
Arkage
Banned
Seems like their take of $7.50 out of the $10 is a bit high when the goals are based on increasing the prize pool for the competition. Donating $10 but only $2.50 of that actually funding the goal feels a bit sleezy. There might be less complaining if a larger chunk of that actually went to fund the goals rather than to fund Valve's already overflowing bank accounts.
ashecitism
Member
I'm really tired of the "Valve get a free pass", "If this was any other company doing it, people would flip out" narrative. People constantly call Valve out, here on Gaf, on reddit, on Steam forums, every gaming related site. Everywhere. Almost every thread, article about them get shat up.
Well in this thread, you have illustrated that it is unjustified. As the previous poster has illustrated, if EA had the same circumstance, I know for sure I would still support it.
A free game, very regularly receiving new content at no cost, holds a very large tournament that adds some more cosmetics exclusively for those purchasing the compendium while also providing new game modes if the certain "stretch goals" are reached - but to ALL players rather than just the compendium owners.
Now compare this to last years unmet "stretch goal" where a new character could be voted on - the goal wasn't met, but later the characters still came along, although not necessarily the same as what people were hoping to choose.
The point is this isn't "funding" the production of anything, it's an incentive to crowd-fund a larger prize pool for the event. You could realistically pay nothing and receive nothing OR end up with the new game modes. The updates continue as every other year, again for a free product.
I think that's a pretty big difference, and I don't see how that makes me a hypocrite. I would be happy to see this in the same circumstances by any company when it helps drive such events and is available to all with no performance benefits
freakzilla149
Banned
Come on. You can't call this sleazy. They gave you an entire game completely for free, and a damn feature rich, well made, regularly updated one at that. Why are you entitled to even more free stuff?
Shush, they're not intersted in arguing this topic. They're only trying to argue a scenario they made up in their head about the typical valve supporter, a premise that they can't be bothered to defend.
Glass Shark
Banned
Just bought my Compendium. Thanks, OP!
bassman2112
Member
I have no idea why you guys are looking at this in such a negative light, nor why this thread's title is written in such a pejorative manner.
I'm a Dota fan, and care a ton about both the community and the pro scene. The International is the point in the year for which all Dota fans are most excited. The compendium has been seen as a hugely positive thing. You buy it, and you're directly supporting the pro scene by having a percentage go straight to them. This is infinitely better than the static prize pool of most major tournaments, because we as a community have a direct means by which to show our support.
The stretch goals are but an added bonus, and most everyone sees it as just that - a bonus. It's fun, pithy stuff that we can easily live without; but the fact that it's there makes the time that much more intriguing and exciting.
I feel like you all are reading into this far too much. No-one in the Dota community is upset or unhappy about this - in fact, quite the opposite.
I'm a Dota fan, and care a ton about both the community and the pro scene. The International is the point in the year for which all Dota fans are most excited. The compendium has been seen as a hugely positive thing. You buy it, and you're directly supporting the pro scene by having a percentage go straight to them. This is infinitely better than the static prize pool of most major tournaments, because we as a community have a direct means by which to show our support.
The stretch goals are but an added bonus, and most everyone sees it as just that - a bonus. It's fun, pithy stuff that we can easily live without; but the fact that it's there makes the time that much more intriguing and exciting.
I feel like you all are reading into this far too much. No-one in the Dota community is upset or unhappy about this - in fact, quite the opposite.
Anuxinamoon
Shaper Divine
Well when I tried to organise a LAN final for the aussie scene, we had a prize pool goal of 10k and the running costs and expenses we needed to cover were 4 times the prize pool.
The compendium sales will contribute to running the event and increasing the overall production value.
Netrunner2k2
Member
The expenses they have for TI4 is going to be insane. They need to fund the event itself as well as all of the accommodations they make for the teams.
Also, what does Valve's bank account have to do with anything? Do you think they should give away MORE for free because you think their bank account is overflowing? Who cares how much they have? They have earned every cent of their revenue; they deserve it.
Shorty11857
Member
Well it's not really a donation , you're getting stuff in return for it. Not that I would mind the percentage being higher
This is hilarious, and not totally unexpected. So what I've heard is this...
Valve fans would never treat other companies with the same policies that way! Despite years of people attacking every little negative thing they can find for companies like EA (Not exclusive to them either). Yeah, that's the biggest load of BS I've heard from anything associated with Valve, EA, or other companies, lol.
Its okay because its better! Meaning you should just ignore the negatives? And ignore the positives of the companies that are not in your good graces? Great logic there.
Valve doesn't get a pass here! Just because some people will speak up about what they do doesn't mean the community doesn't just ignore them and move on. Look at this situation... Literally people running in yelling about how mistreated Valve is and trying to defend them with all their might. Totally not getting a pass, lol. Not even talking about just on GAF anyways.
You ignored how it was bad! I recall already placing out a pretty defendable argument that could say how it was bad. I just don't care enough either way myself to have a stance on that matter.
So basically, people reacted exactly how I expected. Thanks all, its been fun, but I think I'll leave while you guys are abiding by your own stereotype.
Valve fans would never treat other companies with the same policies that way! Despite years of people attacking every little negative thing they can find for companies like EA (Not exclusive to them either). Yeah, that's the biggest load of BS I've heard from anything associated with Valve, EA, or other companies, lol.
Its okay because its better! Meaning you should just ignore the negatives? And ignore the positives of the companies that are not in your good graces? Great logic there.
Valve doesn't get a pass here! Just because some people will speak up about what they do doesn't mean the community doesn't just ignore them and move on. Look at this situation... Literally people running in yelling about how mistreated Valve is and trying to defend them with all their might. Totally not getting a pass, lol. Not even talking about just on GAF anyways.
You ignored how it was bad! I recall already placing out a pretty defendable argument that could say how it was bad. I just don't care enough either way myself to have a stance on that matter.
So basically, people reacted exactly how I expected. Thanks all, its been fun, but I think I'll leave while you guys are abiding by your own stereotype.
While not exclusive to digital goods, that's basically it. When people try to compare things and ignore that influence in their bias, it gets pretty bad.
No, your conclusion is that valve supporters are hypocrites. Your premise (what you are using to come to that conclusion) seems to be that in a hypothetical scenario you are imagining, those valve supporters act like hypocrites. Surely you can see how invalid that kind of reasoning is?
So a lot word that mean nothing, thanks for thread shitting up this thread. I would like to live in this wierd universe you seem to live in, just so I can witness pure insanity with my own eyes. If you could look down at the "Valve Plebeians" any harder, you would go cross-eyed.
MrNyarlathotep
Banned
I know you're just doing a driveby and won't read this, but the goodwill Valve engender has been earned over time and making multiple decisions where the consumer (because the amount of stuff they give out for free doesn't mean everyone who uses their products is a 'customer') benefits.
EA meanwhile has a history of fucking over their customers, and a "take the money and run" attitude.
PC gamers skew towards a slightly older demographic, so we remember things like EAs digital distribution allowing you one download that you had to backup yourself or it was lost forever, or not even hosting their own patches because they didn't want to spend the bandwidth costs on ensuring their own products work properly.
That is not what you said. this is what you said and what i objected to:
the idea that this is 'okay' because nothing would change even in the event of failure. That is not okay.
It is sleazy to give someone the expectation that they need to do something in your benefit when they do not.
the idea of early access is that the product is in active development. you don't buy an early access game with the expectation that what you get on day one is the whole product.
if it's done enough that they are prepared to give it the stamp of approval once they get paid, it's done.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
This is the worst post I ever seen. Championing ignorance in light that giving the issue any real thought is a weakness, or a sign of compliance. So it is just better to stand on a high horse and pretend like your are even addressing the issue of the thread instead of something you made up in your head.
I've just got to address this, because this is hilarious. So me saying that weeding out one's bias from your thinking and approaching things rationally and fairly... That's championing ignorance? Oh, internet, never change.
EDIT: Might as well give a quick shout out to the rest. Vaporak, that's stupid. Think about what you're saying. Armaros, the fact that you think I'm looking down on people speaks enough about where you're coming from. MrNyarlothotep, you are correct, and its part of my point.
So you really don't know anything about Steam, do you? It's not "one big glorified DRM". There is nothing on Steam that stops drm-free releases. If the publishers/devs want their games to be DRM-Free, they will be. If the publishers/devs want DRM, Valve offers them solutions like Steam CEG DRM. It's chosen by the publishers, not Valve.
MurkyZebra2417
Member
Oh wow, people really getting angry over this. If gaming goes to hell, only gamers are responsible, not EA, not Ubi, not Microsoft, not Sony, GAMERS.
Vulcano's assistant
Banned
Internet? Nah.This is a person making this claim, not some distant ambiguous entity.
The fact that you think its a good thing, speaks volumes about you, at least the so called 'Valve defenders' dont come into thread with your sickenly self-righteous and self-important attitude about how you know the 'real truth' about Valve and we are blind and ignorant to it all.
So you are against any form of crowd funding of the prize pool that involves everyone receiving a new game mode, including those who do not want to support the crowd funding of the prize pool?
So far your reasoning is:
- Valve shouldn't be allowed to prioritize production of anything
- Valve customers are hypocrites for supporting the generation of a larger prize pool in this manner because they wouldn't support any other company doing the same thing
I and others argue that - I would be very happy to be involved in supporting this kind of prize pool funding from any company even with goals that provide new modes to everyone
- You argue - Your just defending Valve
I'm arguing that the concept is sound. It isn't a company owned policy or idea, and to me it is separate to a kickstarter funding as the goal is to fund the growth of the prize pool, not the funding or prioritisation of any game component.
It is exactly the same as some devs on Steam (I can't think of anywhere else I have seen this) where number of preorders unlocks bonuses for pre-orderers. Tropico 5 is doing this now, get free games or content based on how many people pre-order. http://store.steampowered.com/app/245620/
Are tropico 5 devs and supporters hypocrites? What should be done instead? What is your certified way of not being a hypocrite and still remaining the fan of this kind of thing?
Ok so obviously you haven't been in any Valve thread like, at all. Yes they get praised a lot for all the good stuff they do, but they get as much flak as any other company for their fuckups.
See: Greenlight, Steam Controller issues, Diretide fuckup last year, Server issues, ....
It is you here, who chooses to be ignorant.
People buy something they like. They get something they like.
If enough people buy something they like, they get some other stuff they like faster.
You still haven't explained where the negatives are, like at all. Again, you read the title, and then proceeded to bash Valve fans just because you had a chance to do so.
Yelling how mistreated Valve is? Care to elaborate? I haven't read any such post. And see point 1. You still haven't given a single argument, why compendium goals are bad.
Again, just meaningless words instead of arguments.
And of course a nice dose of self-induced rightousness. Hope you love your high.
When people try to shit up a topic with the same tired rhetorics without any arguments, then it gets pretty bad.
Well that was a lot of stuff that shoved assumptions about my argument onto me. The argument I laid out that would be against this is that prioritization based on you paying can easily be construed on a negative, when Valve has the resources easily to do prioritization by something like a community poll. My main point is that many Valve supporters here are ignoring the negatives for no good reason.
That I think what's a good thing? Eliminating bias so rational thought and fair judgement of actions can be a thing? I'm just commenting on people's actions, not them as people. I do think that speaks well enough on my approach to things about this. Hence the whole thing about you thinking I'm looking down on people speaking more of yourself.
And before you or someone start saying something like me generalizing people, I'm obviously only ever speaking specifically of people that participate in the actions I have described. Just want to get that silly part out of the way because its something someone always likes to bring up.
EDIT: Oh, des0lar... How do you expect me to respond to something where you entire argument is "never happened" despite it being right there for you to see.
At this point its not a strawman, its a straw monolith.
And then remains in thread to turn up nose at everyone who points this out.