SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
Microsoft has already moved in that general direction for advertising.
And really there is hardly a difference.
Just like there are diehard fanboys of apple products, the same exists for both Microsoft and Sony.
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vg247-PS4: new kits shipping now, AMD A10 used as base, final version next summer
- Thread starter Globox_82
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Microsoft has already moved in that general direction for advertising.
And really there is hardly a difference.
Just like there are diehard fanboys of apple products, the same exists for both Microsoft and Sony.
I personally would assume $500 is at a point you'd only be getting enthusiasts. Apple is able to get away with that price because of Apple Tax, and while I don't like that, they're marking up the price whereas these platforms, if they want to use current technologies, will be selling at a loss. And to be fair to your argument about launches for the enthusiasts, that seems right, but Microsoft and especially Sony would have to do good to pull the trigger on a price drop that enters the range that's more accessible to regular consumers when that peters out. Sony was a year too late on that draw with the PS3, but perhaps they waited for a price drop to come hand in hand with the slim model, but that was a period of slow momentum for Sony.
$300-$400 for the base model of a console seems perfectly fine, and the bundles seem like easier pills to swallow if it gets out of that threshold. For Wii U, $350 seems like a ripoff, but it's an easier pill to swallow for people buying the bundle model at that price as all of the extras that come with that version are far more expensive than the extra $50 for the bundle. 3DS felt that way too at $250, but it came with two games pre-installed to the hardware, which you could desperately justify as $25 games.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Think about it logically.
Since it is a non-standard HD size, we can presume that it is an SSD type of drive.
We have then the following assumptions:
2a. The author got his terminology mixed up and is actually talking about a 256GB SDD drive.
2b. The author did not get his terminology wrong and is talking about a 256Gb SDD drive, e.g a 32GB sized SSD.
Now, in order for 2a to be true, there'd have to be a good reason for the devkit to come with an insanely pricey 256GB SDD drive instead of a temporary HD in place of 1-2TB. Especially as the current devkit is meant to be just slightly modified PC. What purpose would an SDD drive of that size serve?
Even if the PS4 is released 2014q1, a 256GB SDD drive would be extremely expensive and not make one bit of sense considering how Sony has handled the PSvita (cut down storage so that the price will be lower, and make up for the lack of storage by making the gamers pay for it).
If you're arguing that it's for testing purposes and that the final version will have a smaller SDD; well, wouldn't it make more sense to bundle the smaller SD drive then (See next bit)?
That's why I'm leaning towards 2b being true, based on Sony's behaviour, and it making more sense to bundle an SDD drive with the devkit for whatever purpose (game loading/saving speeds?) as it wouldn't be too expensive. It is possible then that the 32GB sized SDD drive will be upgraded for the consumer version, but by assuming that 2b is correct, we'll have to accept that the author got his terminology right - meaning that the PS4 devkits come with only 1-2GB of ram.
Gemüsepizza
Member
Maybe the PS4 will have a 16-32 GB SSD and they put a 256 GB SSD in the dev kit for comfort reasons, similar to RAM.
I personally would assume $500 is at a point you'd only be getting enthusiasts. Apple is able to get away with that price because of Apple Tax, and while I don't like that, they're marking up the price whereas these platforms, if they want to use current technologies, will be selling at a loss. And to be fair to your argument about launches for the enthusiasts, that seems right, but Microsoft and especially Sony would have to do good to pull the trigger on a price drop that enters the range that's more accessible to regular consumers when that peters out. Sony was a year too late on that draw with the PS3, but perhaps they waited for a price drop to come hand in hand with the slim model, but that was a period of slow momentum for Sony.
$300-$400 for the base model of a console seems perfectly fine, and the bundles seem like easier pills to swallow if it gets out of that threshold. For Wii U, $350 seems like a ripoff, but it's an easier pill to swallow for people buying the bundle model at that price as all of the extras that come with that version are far more expensive than the extra $50 for the bundle. 3DS felt that way too at $250, but it came with two games pre-installed to the hardware, which you could desperately justify as $25 games.
I just hope Sony doesn't pull any of its proprietary tech crap like they did the Vita to cushion the loss (can't think of anything that'll be proprietary yet supplementary on a home console, but then again it's Sony).
Sure, it could be.
But you don't need any sort of special RAM to do that, ignoring that computers have been doing it for however long, the Vita already does it with its main memory and just keeps some of it all the time ready to go.
Why can't it be a typo for one and correct for another?
The assumption about the RAM is incorrect judging by all the rumours flying around. Also RAM has NEVER been read or published as Mb or Gb always "Byte". The only thing still in nits is ISP speed to make it look big.
EDIT: Oh and another thing, games may be bigger in size next gen and the BD read speed is apparently growing 8 folds over PS3's not to mention the capacity of next gen BD will also see an increase. As such a bigger capacity makes sense in a developmental arena.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Gemüsepizza;43873254 said:
Does it work like that though?
I presume that the reason one would put in an SDD drive in a devkit would be to test the file transfer speeds (especially if games rely on that), so you wouldn't need to put in a super expensive 256GB SSD into the devkit over a much cheaper 32GB SSD one.
Ugh, please no. I sincerely hope (and pray sometimes) that Sony allows non-Sony products to store data. The Vita memory cards are absurdly expensive for the amount of memory they have, and the price Sony's charging them for.
Really hope the standby always on thing (with multitasking) is true. That's the real advancement here. That will be this generations Xbox Live, Achievements etc. Probably even more so. It will be a feature that we won't be able to live without going forward. It's not just about browsing the web or watching videos while a game is paused. Those are important for some people. Especially with the mainstream. Getting that box on in less than 3 seconds is important. For gamers though getting the PS4 to match what the 360 can do with syncing trophies, updating in the background like Steam, and cross game chat among other things is key. No doubt the 720 will have these features as well. I must say I'm consistently impressed at how Microsoft has been able to get all these features going in nearly the most ideal ways possible. They sync in the background, the cloud saves act as any other memory device (and they backup locally as well). Microsoft just gets it when it comes to usability. Charging for some of these things is an issue, but I gotta give em props for this.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
That is possible, so I guess there is a 50/50 chance of the PS4 having either 8-16GB or 8-16Gb (1-2GB).
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Think back to the timing of the Vita dev kit leaks.
Graphics Horse
Member
Maybe the 256GB is the minimum standard spec but won't come into effect for a few years while 320GBs are cheaper.
pharmboy044
Member
If Microsoft will do it then Sony probably will do it.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Does this article say if Orbis has a dedicated GPU? Or is just an APU?
Gemüsepizza
Member
I think those dev kits already cost several thousand dollars, and if it is useful they probably won't hesitate to put a $200 ssd in it.
There is a difference tho
1. The Apple marketing machine is vicious. Even if Sony and MS have strong marketing ideas for next gen and attracting fans, they don't have the same amount of charisma that Apple has right now
2. Consoles aren't as "needed" as much as the public "needs" an Apple product.
It's going to have a GPU. That's what the 7970 rumors are for. Would be silly to be APU only. Also, APU only would not come close to getting the 1080P60 3D dream.
Death Dealer
Member
8-16GB in the dev kit may indicate 4-8GB in the retail unit.
IrrelevantNotch
Banned
Why would you want both though?
Given what we know about what Sony and MS both aim to do pertaining to media functionality and efficiency achievable through, counting it in Gb to where the ram is either 1 or 2GB is actually unrealistic (2GB not as much).
Read the previous edit as well pertaining to SSD size. One thing I'd add is that these dev kits aren't in triple digits in terms of proliferation. Therefore we can assume it's not setting Sony back in terms of expenses by a huge margins. And IF the the third parties are actually paying for the dev kits like they would with the final version, I'd assume it'd be very expensive (once again, like it was in the beginning of this gen). Prior to March 2009, the price of PS3 dev kit was around $10,000. After that it was $2000. So if the same trend is to follow, I am certain the price will easily encapsulate a 256GB SSD HDD. And people should know that there are 256GB SSDs on the market.
H_Prestige
Banned
But having that same pathetic and slow 500GB hdd built into the system would be fine?
APU = lower power mode i.e non gaming stuff
GPU = Games
That's what I would consider at least. The graphics chip in the APU isn't going to be powerful enough to handle complex gaming.
As others have pointed out it really depends on what kind of APU we're talking about. It's not a 'off the schelves' component but a customized part.
If their target is that 'famous' 1.8-2 Teraflops GPU (roughly 10X the RSX) they don't necessarily need a discrete GPU.
They can go with just a customized APU with a powerful mid-range GPU inside instead of the low range GPUs which are traditionally included in desktop parts. The main chip will be more expensive than a desktop APU but they will more than make up for that with savings on the GPU chip, the size and complexity of the PCB, coooling system and so on.
If they're targeting a really high end product with a high end price (500$), which doesn't seem likely at this point, then they could choose a discrete GPU with the power of the 7970.
An other key aspect is the memory configuration and bandwidth which could force them to go with the discrete GPU approach (ex. if going with the APU forced them to stick to just 2GB of high bandwidth memory).
At this point too many details are still pure speculation.
Death Dealer
Member
Yeah the highest off the shelf spec A10 doesn't have even one teraflop. I think Orbis will be an A10 with integrated graphics along with a dedicated GPU.
I think $400-500 with a basic and premium skus is on the mark.
Hell I paid 300 for a PS1.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yeah, I think Sony is taking a page out of Nintendo's book and trying to make simple and efficient systems, like the vita. Hopefully they don't cheap out as much. I still think they're targeting 299 launch. Remember, Vita launched at same price as 3DS at the time, and nobody thought that would be possible.
You seriously think Sony is aiming to bring a home console with next generation tech at a price of $50 over psvita!!? I'll eat my hat if that happens.
Also, once again, ps4 isn't only going to have an APU alone (not unless the GPU in that APU is a mid or mid-low range sea island).
Glorified G
Member
I'm betting that it would be. (customized underclocked pitcairn) So another gpu isn't needed.
Sony had to compete with the juggernaut of handhelds. On the console front, Nintendo's still focusing on emphasizing alternate ways of playing games, whereas Sony and Microsoft are more in a technological arms race.
I can't see MS or Sony doing a $300 system unless they're going to lose a lot of money or cut back on a lot on specs. $350 would perhaps be the bare minimum. Nintendo's in that range due to the controller, not due to specs.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
MS opened up the memory of the 360 by allowing you to add any USB flash card you wanted way before Sony created the propriety memory cards for the Vita.
Raonak
Banned
IIRC, devkits usually have double the ram- for debugging tools and whatnot i assume.
So in that case the actual units would have either 4GB-8GB or 512MB-1GB.
I find it extremely unikely that sony would go with near 1GB ram. since the vita already has 640mb in it.
And considering rumours say Xbox3 is going to be around 4gb ram too- I'd say thats how much the ps4 will probably have.
Just a heads up: The APU on the 5800k is barely capable of beating low end cards like the 620/630.
They'd need to seriously modify the chip to make it capable of playing any real games at 1080/60, but not only playing them at that resolution/frame rate... but with texture quality that's worthy of being "next gen".
They'd need to seriously modify the chip to make it capable of playing any real games at 1080/60, but not only playing them at that resolution/frame rate... but with texture quality that's worthy of being "next gen".
Raonak
Banned
Im thinking vita would have a pricedrop before that. (lol. sony who knows)
299$ isn't possible and doesn't even make sense imo for different reasons.
1)Nintendo is losing money on Wii U (old tech) at that price because they have a fancy controller.
People are so focused on graphics that they don't see that both Microsoft and Sony will have added costs as well due to new non traditional controllers.
2)This gen has proven that there is a good launch market for a home console at 399$. Why leaving on the table the opportunity to get the first 10m people on board at 400$ during the first year on the market when the possibility is fully there?
3)For Sony and Microsoft the key to low price points in the next gen will be subscriptions. These consoles will be sold with subcription deals to Live, Plus, whatever, if people want to get the hardware at a low price. It's a business model which works and it has made the fortune of smartphones.
So well in conclusion I think that both Sony and Microsoft will launch at no less that 400$ and that there will be great deals with subscriptions to online services.
ScrabbleBanshee
Member
Well I'm kind of glad and kind of sad that it will still be really underpowered compared to my current PC. On one hand I will get to enjoy crappy console ports at higher resolution for a long time to come without upgrading anything, on the other hand I will get to enjoy crappy console ports at a higher resolution for a long time to come.
phosphor112
Banned
CEO of HDMI is speaking this month, we'll see what they say (if anything) about HDMI 2.0. He's speaking again in January.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Yeah, that is a good point.
But what if it is 1GB if hyperfast XDR3 RAM or something like that?
And what if the developers don't have access to a secondary pool of RAM that is reserved for the OS a la the Wii U?
Making the final product have 2GB of hyperfast XDR3 RAM, of which 1GB is available for games and the other reserved for the OS - but might at some point the future be partially opened to the developers just like with today's consoles.
No? I want 256GB SSD. Even 120 GB would be fine.
Syph Medwes
Member
you forgot a zero
As ludicrous as some rumours can get, your post about XDR3 is absurd. I'm sorry but that's not even a possibility worth exploring further.
Where did people get the idea that 256gb isn't a doable size for an HDD? 256mb is a perfectly normal size based on the OS level 1024-base byte scale. In the final revision it'd probably be marked a different size, maybe 250 (on a 1000-byte scale which is the standard scale for marketing purposes, it's 279gb, not a very round number)
Anyway the point is its definitely not 'bits.' Especially not the Ram number. Though the people here trying desperately to grasp at straws to find a way that makes the Wii U look on par for the next gen is really funny.
Anyway the point is its definitely not 'bits.' Especially not the Ram number. Though the people here trying desperately to grasp at straws to find a way that makes the Wii U look on par for the next gen is really funny.
Would be even more silly to pair an APU and a GPU in such a device. Article doesn't mention a discrete GPU, so I'd say it's just an APU.
Proelite
Member
XDR2 isn't even out yet! This guy has no fucking clue.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
IMO, the most logical way to think about it would be to think that he's talking about what's in devkit. And in that case a 256GB SSD drive makes perfect sense.