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[patsu]

Random query: Will the PS4 have DSP?

Also can someone outline what a DSP in a console be used for besides processing audio separately from CPU in layman terms?

It depends on the technical details.

Because of their similarity, some people compared the SPUs in Cell to DSPs early this gen:

Major Nelson: "The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming." ^_^

When used properly, the SPUs could match the console GPUs of its era. So they are used for different stages of rendering in addition to security, physics, compression/decompression, video and audio decoding/encoding/processing, motion input, etc.

Traditional DSPs can still perform a lot of these things in piecemeal fashion, minus the rendering part (Modern GPUs should be more appropriate for end-to-end graphics work now).

EDIT: I just realized Wario was banned. What happened ?

 

[pieatorium]

EDIT: I just realized Wario was banned. What happened ?

the new "was this threadworthy" rule

 

[patsu]

What "was this threadworthy" rule ?

 

[Gorillaz]

What "was this threadworthy" rule ?

Cant say thus phrase. Which is why its sometimes better to ignore it.

 

[Averon]

What "was this threadworthy" rule ?

Whining/complaining about a thread's existence.

 

[SniperHunter]

What "was this threadworthy" rule ?

i was also banned for two weeks, good rule though

 

[Glorified G]

The chinese source is terribly wrong. Specialguy has already given out updated info.

He's not any more credible than the alleged AMD guy. People are just cherry picking which rumors they want to believe at this point.

And that "updated info" is most likely posts read on b3d.

 

[Reiko]

He's not any more credible than the alleged AMD guy. People are just cherry picking which rumors they want to believe at this point.

And that "updated info" is most likely posts read on b3d.

Like I said, spot on posts gets removed. Just ask sweetvar26.

He's on gag order.

 

[Glorified G]

Like I said, spot on posts gets removed. Just ask sweetvar26.

He's on gag order.

I wasn't specifically talking about sweetvar26. But there is definitely a lot of people who are pretending to have insider info, when in reality they're just heavy b3d users who follow rumors really closely.

sweetvar26 as far as I know is the only one who had his posts removed from google cache.

 

[stryke]

Like I said, spot on posts gets removed. Just ask sweetvar26.

Wish I was there. Being lttp, it's hard identifying what he actually said.

 

[Gorillaz]

Sweetvar26 is tied up in some abandon warhouse being waterboarded by Sony Ninjas

NDA aint thing to fuck with.

 

[Proelite]

Sweetvar26 is tied up in some abandon warhouse being waterboarded by Sony Ninjas

NDA aint thing to fuck with.

AMD ninjas.

 

[Truespeed]

It depends on the technical details.

Major Nelson: "The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming." ^_^

Gotta love it when grampa Herb explains technology.

 

[iamvin22]

Usually each new generation means a new IP with Naughty Dog.

let me add that ND was and still is the lead engineers of the internal first party ICE team. more than likely they will have a lot of say on tools for PS4 and give out tons of support to first party teams.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Going from rumors only...I think this is a fair analysis of power comparisons for next-gen...

WiiU=Dreamcast (actually, a little weaker)

PS4/Orbis=PS2

720/Durango=Xbox

??

I think I'm quite ok with that...OS/Ecosystem/controller/3rd 1st party titles between the largest buying factors...

 

[pieatorium]

Going from rumors only...I think this is a fair analysis of power comparisons for next-gen...

WiiU=Dreamcast (actually, a little weaker)

PS4/Orbis=PS2

720/Durango=Xbox

??

I think I'm quite ok with that...OS/Ecosystem/controller/3rd 1st party titles between the largest buying factors...

WiiU= Wii (actually a little weaker)

Ps4 = Xbox 360

720 = Xbox 360

 

[phosphor112]

It depends on the technical details.

Because of their similarity, some people compared the SPUs in Cell to DSPs early this gen:

Major Nelson: "The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming." ^_^

When used properly, the SPUs could match the console GPUs of its era. So they are used for different stages of rendering in addition to security, physics, compression/decompression, video and audio decoding/encoding/processing, motion input, etc.

Traditional DSPs can still perform a lot of these things in piecemeal fashion, minus the rendering part (Modern GPUs should be more appropriate for end-to-end graphics work now).

EDIT: I just realized Wario was banned. What happened ?

Glad Major Nelson, a PR man, is making comments on technology.

It might not have a typical cache, but it has a local store 256kb... not much but the access speeds for that data was instant.

It bothers me how much people downplay the Cell when it played a huge role in the RSX sucking major ass this gen.

 

[iamvin22]

WiiU= Wii (actually a little weaker)

Ps4 = Xbox 360

720 = Xbox 360

pretty much this.

 

[Proelite]

Not to boast or whatever. But I fucking called it for both systems save for the ram amount, which since then have been doubled.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478941

 

[Omnistalgic]

WiiU= Wii (actually a little weaker)

Ps4 = Xbox 360

720 = Xbox 360

lol...hmmm, well I haven't checked out WiiU enough to make that analysis, but I thought it was a bit more powerful than current gen stuff, really haven't been following it, but I guess that analysis is closer as WiiU games have mostly resembled current gen.

With Sony trying to get there stock back though, I figured they might be forced to release a consoles that's profitable early on, and even though MS lost a lot of $$ on RROD, it's still MS...

 

[Ashes]

WiiU= Wii (actually a little weaker)

Ps4 = Xbox 360

720 = Xbox 360

PS4: PS VITA4ever

720: Win 8360

edit: ha ha. chinese whispers...

 

[pieatorium]

lol...hmmm, well I haven't checked out WiiU enough to make that analysis, but I thought it was a bit more powerful than current gen stuff, really haven't been following it, but I guess that analysis is closer as WiiU games have mostly resembled current gen.

With Sony trying to get there stock back though, I figured they might be forced to release a consoles that's profitable early on, and even though MS lost a lot of $$ on RROD, it's still MS...

Your first post said based off rumours but this post basically says you just made it up off random thoughts

 

[Kagari]

Both systems are going to be very similar with some differences - much like the current PS3 and 360. The plus side for Sony is this time they got a lot of input from third parties on the design so hopefully the development issues they had/have with PS3 are eliminated in the next system.

 

[Evolution_1ne]

WiiU= Wii (actually a little weaker)

Ps4 = Xbox 360

720 = Xbox 360

WiiU= Wii

PS4= PS3 (only easier to develop for)

720= Xbox 360

 

[thuway]

Both systems are going to be very similar with some differences - much like the current PS3 and 360. The plus side for Sony is this time they got a lot of input from third parties on the design so hopefully the development issues they had/have with PS3 are eliminated in the next system.

Agreed. These two machiens have fundamentally different approaches to rendering. It's quite a beautiful thing.

 

[pharmboy044]

Both systems are going to be very similar with some differences - much like the current PS3 and 360. The plus side for Sony is this time they got a lot of input from third parties on the design so hopefully the development issues they had/have with PS3 are eliminated in the next system.

Well according to Aegies, the third parties still have no clue as to what the PS4 is and there isn't much talk.
Hopefully you are correct and third parties are being given a voice this time instead of just having them take what Sony gives them.

 

[Massa]

Well according to Aegies, the third parties still have no clue as to what the PS4 is and there isn't much talk.
Hopefully you are correct and third parties are being given a voice this time instead of just having them take what Sony gives them.

Kutaragi Sony used to design their systems in Japan without much input from third party or first party developers. I don't know about third party but I do know that SCE Worldwide Studios are much more involved with the design of the PS4.

 

[iamvin22]

Agreed. These two machiens have fundamentally different approaches to rendering. It's quite a beautiful thing.

gosh you made that sound so lovely that im melting here

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

Both systems are going to be very similar with some differences - much like the current PS3 and 360. The plus side for Sony is this time they got a lot of input from third parties on the design so hopefully the development issues they had/have with PS3 are eliminated in the next system.

maybe not ELIMINATED, but at least minimized. we kept hearing devs scream for more and more ram, so if sony's giving them a little less than they wanted, but increasing it's speed and bandwidth, then it makes up for it. or at least gives them a viable solution for how to build their engines.

 

[weekend_warrior]

WiiU= Wii (actually a little weaker)

Ps4 = Xbox 360

720 = Xbox 360

WiiU= Gamecube
PS4= PS3
720= Wii

 

[Kagari]

Well according to Aegies, the third parties still have no clue as to what the PS4 is and there isn't much talk.
Hopefully you are correct and third parties are being given a voice this time instead of just having them take what Sony gives them.

Maybe he just didn't hear from the right people.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

"we here at nstigate haven't been told anything yet... weird..."

 

[Chuck Norris]

I'm hoping for an Uncharted game on the Vita in 2013 and one on the PS4 in 2014.

I'm hoping they slow down the rate of milking it

 

[Kagari]

"we here at nstigate haven't been told anything yet... weird..."

Maybe that's a good thing? lol

 

[AgentChris]

Maybe he just didn't hear from the right people.

I read rumors that Rocksteady, EA and Rockstar already have PS4 devkits. Not sure about developers in Japan.

 

[rdrr gnr]

Well according to Aegies, the third parties still have no clue as to what the PS4 is and there isn't much talk.
Hopefully you are correct and third parties are being given a voice this time instead of just having them take what Sony gives them.

Aegies, is, well, Aegies.

 

[Kagari]

I read rumors that Rocksteady, EA and Rockstar already have PS4 devkits. Not sure about developers in Japan.

Japan does, but I'm not sure who exactly yet.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

i can picture nstigate employees cupping their brows trying to look into the locked, glass doors at sony hq. while the receptionist crouches behind her desk with the lights off.

 

[RoboPlato]

Japan does, but I'm not sure who exactly yet.

I have a strong feeling KojiPro will likely have some input because of the Fox Engine. I think that for the early part of next gen MS and Sony will be battling for an exclusive next gen port of some multiplatform current gen games and I think Sony will make a play for MGSV.

 

[thehypocrite]

Japan does, but I'm not sure who exactly yet.

Square & Konami would be a good guess.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

"we here at nstigate haven't been told anything yet... weird..."

did they change the name so people wouldn't start figuring out they make awful games?

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

did they change the name so people wouldn't start figuring out they make awful games?

even though this joke's been done plenty of times before, you still get cool points. i still laugh.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

even though this joke's been done plenty of times before, you still get cool points. i still laugh.

i was actually interested to know why they changed their name! i just happened to do a little joke with it

 

[Chuck Norris]

Keeping it within the beginning of the series, if Wii U is Farmer With a Shot Gun, Orbis is Nappa. PC is Goku.

And Steambox is Krillin

 

[aegies]

Maybe he just didn't hear from the right people.

Almost assuredly.

Edit: I haven't spoken to many people working for the Japanese publishers, because they tend to keep their western staff in the dark as much as possible. More than you'd think possible. That said, I think it's a safe bet that Luminous was built with the PS4/Orbis in mind.

 

[pharmboy044]

Maybe he just didn't hear from the right people.

Hopefully.

I read rumors that Rocksteady, EA and Rockstar already have PS4 devkits. Not sure about developers in Japan.

Rockstar but not Activision?

 

[thuway]

Almost assuredly.

I can assure you third parties have devkits. Any lack of confidence/clarity would have to do with release dates, amount of RAM, etc. All things considered the systems look quite equal on paper.

 

[RoboPlato]

Rockstar but not Activision?

Activision and Microsoft are really close. Sony has probably been playing it as close to the chest as possible so it would be kind of a risk to let anyone they don't have a great relationship with.

 

[specialguy]

Like I said, spot on posts gets removed. Just ask sweetvar26.

He's on gag order.

sweetvar26 had a friend who worked for AMD, who could get fired for divulging such information. It should be obvious why sweetvar had his posts deleted.



While I do think it's coming in 2013, PS4 seems earlier anyway. A lot of Durango info came in because beta kits with final hardware came out. I dont think final-ish PS4 kits are coming till summer, by all rumors. So we're dealing with earlier stage PS4 specs imo.

I wish we'd get some big grand spec dump in some corner of the internet one of these days...it's about time...

 

[B.O.O.M]

Kutaragi Sony used to design their systems in Japan without much input from third party or first party developers. I don't know about third party but I do know that SCE Worldwide Studios are much more involved with the design of the PS4.

Maybe they primarily talked to eastern third parties