Support NeoGAF

[THE:MILKMAN]

Absolutely correct. This is a reverse situation with PS3 being Durango, and Xbox 360 being Orbis in terms of flexibility. The flip side is, Microsoft makes amazing tools, so any developer that wants to- will lead in their craft.

No doubt this is true, but have MS made newer even better tools than what they had for 360 and Sony haven't/can't?

bgassassin asked the question if it was plausible if Sony's tools are not as good as Microsoft's over at Beyond3D and ERP replied with the following:

Not really when people talk about poor development tools, it's mostly about slow (or in some cases buggy) compilers and linkers and difficult to use or inadequate debuggers.
At the start of the PS3's life MS were also shipping robust profiling tools and Sony really wasn't.

Now though that gap has all but closed, the Sony tools for Vita are embedded in VS, and generally the gold linker used on Sony's existing offerings is faster than the MS equivalent. That speed difference has led a number of people to switch their development platform of choice.

Obviously it doesn't alter the fact that Cell is more difficult for devs. But the above says there is nothing (now) wrong with Sony's tools.

 

[SneakyStephan]

You guys are crazy.

We were complaining about the possibility of having 1.5/2gb of ram, thinking 4-8 was impossibile.

Now that we are going to get those 4-8 gb, everything suddenly feels like shit xD

And I don't believe for a second that MS will let Sony have a GPU that much better. No way.

The 1.5GB figure was always stupid if it was going to be a unified pool (hello atrocious loading times and texture pop in 2.0)
Also those discussions were held back when people throught these things would release in 2012 ,not q4 2013 or q1 2014.

Also when people didn't expect 4-8GB they meant 4-8GB of fast ram (gddr5), not frigging DDR3.
I also think most people have aknowledged that 4GB gddr 5 in orbis is really great, it's only a few fanboys griping about 4GB not being enough and needing 8GB like durango (without looking at bandwidth).

 

[pixlexic]

I am ready to see some target renders ala Squares old man tech demo and motor storm cg!

Come on ms and sony build me up!

 

[Psychotext]

http://microsoftsony.com/

Aww man, why couldn't the content version in the source been something like 4.48.

 

[Palette Swap]

Hah, SPDIF. Take that, WiiU.

 

[Anth0ny]

Orbis = Miami Heat
Durango = OKC
Wii U = L.A Lakers

yo damn

 

[FlutterPuffs]

Orbis: Goku + Vegeta Fusion. Technically stronger but a bit unreliable due to clashes of personalities.

Durango: Ultimate Gohan. Amazing potential but will probably squander it to appeal more to the general public

Wii U: Yajirobe

 

[daveo42]

Are you referring to the ICE team?

I think so.

Yeah that's them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ICE_Team#ICE_Team

In addition, Naughty Dog is home to the ICE Team, one of Sony's World Wide Studios central technology groups. The ICE Team focuses on creating core graphics technologies for Sony's worldwide first party published titles, including low level game engine components, graphics processing pipelines, supporting tools, and graphics profiling and debugging tools. The ICE Team also supports third party developers with a suite of engine components, and a graphics analysis, profiling, and debugging tool for the RSX. Both enable developers to get better performance out of PlayStation hardwares.

 

[EatChildren]

Durango = Jimmy Choo
Orbis = Bruno Magli
Wii U = Maud Frizon
PC = Yves Saint Laurent

?

 

[Ashes]

The 1.5GB figure was always stupid if it was going to be a unified pool (hello atrocious loading times and texture pop in 2.0)
Also those discussions were held back when people throught these things would release in 2012 ,not q4 2013 or q1 2014.

Also when people didn't expect 4-8GB they meant 4-8GB of fast ram (gddr5), not frigging DDR3.
I also think most people have aknowledged that 4GB gddr 5 in orbis is really great, it's only a few fanboys griping about 4GB not being enough and needing 8GB like durango (without looking at bandwidth).

er... emm... er..

 

[Reiko]

A cheap 2006 advert thats been styled to look like a video game.
tsk tsk

Based off GTA3...

Which looks like shit now.

 

[The Chef]

Before I was set straight about the teraflop comparison not working, yes. You need very powerful PC hardware to do what Durango (and Orbis) are doing. In fact, the devkits for Orbis and Durango are very, very similar.



You don't know what you're talking about.

I have just been lurking in all these threads because I really don't have a good enough grasp on anything being revealed to throw any opinions in but you really really seemed to be pushing that Durango was something more 'exciting' and 'powerful' than Orbis. Was that due to a misunderstanding on your part or do you still feel that way but your not talking necessarily about power vs power but features vs features?

 

[EightBitNate]

Buttercup - Orbis
Blossom - Durango
Bubbles - Wii U

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Orbis: Team Chara
Durango: Team Alfredsson

 

[Dark_AnNiaLatOr]

Buttercup - Orbis
Blossom - Durango
Bubbles - Wii U

Nice, really; it's perfect.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

So better or worse than Orbis?

Worse.

 

[pixlexic]

Buttercup - Orbis
Blossom - Durango
Bubbles - Wii U

Awesome

 

[gofreak]

You missed the point. Last gen devs were able to using 100% of Xenos, because of bottlenecks. I don't understand why you're talking about Orbis and Durango.

I presume you meant to say 'weren't'.

I thought the point being suggested was that there was some set universal cap on performance utilisation on 'normal' GPUs and that Microsoft was going to leapfrog that with a GPU that would be super-utilised all the time.

My point is that it's a very variable thing and there's no universal fixes for all workloads you might put against a GPU. It's true that average software may not utilise GPUs in the most productive ways all the time, but that's not some inherent limitation of the GPUs. And, yes, you can do things to try and boost average utilisation in a way that is transparent to applications. Or to design things so that certain preferred workloads do better. GPU manufacturers are constantly doing that, designing hardware to try and maximise performance on the evolving demands of games, whose code they've little to no control over. But you're always going to need developer optimisation if you want better-case utilisation and luckily you can lean on that assumption to a certain degree with a closed box.

 

[itsgreen]

Worse.

Is what we guess based on the leaks and rumours

 

[LukasTaves]

I have a gut feeling about at least one of the next gen consoles using their predecessor as a client for ... something. That's just me spitballing though.

Using 720 as a game server for streaming was hinted on that leaked roadmap

And then there's the gaikai tech sony purchased...

 

[shinra-bansho]

No doubt this is true, but have MS made newer even better tools than what they had for 360 and Sony haven't/can't?

bgassassin asked the question if it was plausible if Sony's tools are not as good as Microsoft's over at Beyond3D and ERP replied with the following:

Obviously it doesn't alter the fact that Cell is more difficult for devs. But the above says there is nothing (now) wrong with Sony's tools.

Not sure if it's worth noting, but apparently ERP works at SCEA, although I don't know if that makes him privy to any information not publicly available.

 

[McHuj]

I have a gut feeling about at least one of the next gen consoles using their predecessor as a client for ... something. That's just me spitballing though.

I always go back to Mark Rein (on a 2012 CES Tested videocast) talking about the potential in MS using the 360 as a client for streaming content/games from the nextgen console. I always found it odd, it's almost as if he were pitching or hinting at that idea. I hope they do something like that.

 

[Can Crusher]

Orbis=Ronaldo
Durango=Falcao
WiiU=Matri/Mario Gomez
PC=Messi

Lol, if PC is Messi then:

Orbis: Van Persie
Durango: Falcao


At very best. No Ronaldo in sight.

 

[gundamkyoukai]

I have just been lurking in all these threads because I really don't have a good enough grasp on anything being revealed to throw any opinions in but you really really seemed to be pushing that Durango was something more 'exciting' and 'powerful' than Orbis. Was that due to a misunderstanding on your part or do you still feel that way but your not talking necessarily about power vs power but features vs features?

From what i saw he said he did not know much about things on Sony side or at least the people he talk to .

 

[Takuya]

Orbis - $$$
Durante - $$
Wii U - $

 

[Agent Icebeezy]

WiiU : Bill Laimbeer's Combat Basketball

Hey! This game was actually fun on the SNES though, lol.

That said. I hope for the sake of advancement, that both systems are great. I've been playing Dirt Showdown on my PC with everything on high and at 60fps @ 1080p. Gamers will be in for a treat if this is similar to what next gen looks like, minus the crazy AA and such.

 

[grimshawish]

I have just been lurking in all these threads because I really don't have a good enough grasp on anything being revealed to throw any opinions in but you really really seemed to be pushing that Durango was something more 'exciting' and 'powerful' than Orbis. Was that due to a misunderstanding on your part or do you still feel that way but your not talking necessarily about power vs power but features vs features?

I've noted this a few times too. We don't actually get any reason as to why.
And now all were hearing is he knows that the devkits are similar, which is frankly not a surprise. That however does not mean the hardware produces similar limitations.

Based off GTA3...

Which looks like shit now.

One day you will post a picture of Watch Dogs. Just like people post pictures of Gears 1

 

[thiswasavailable]

Based off GTA3...

Which looks like shit now.

I think people need to pull up more graphics research that MS and Sony have been doing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ned4N4fLF_I

Imagine that looking better and fast and fluid. I believe certain styles of CGI will be replicated well enough in real time.

 

[Kimawolf]

Orbis: Goku + Vegeta Fusion. Technically stronger but a bit unreliable due to clashes of personalities.

Durango: Ultimate Gohan. Amazing potential but will probably squander it to appeal more to the general public

Wii U: Yajirobe

Isn't Yajirobe the only character in DBZ to not die in some gruesome death or get the crap kicked out of them they may as well be dead? the plot thickens.

 

[Violater]

Orbis: Esteban Gutierrez
Durango: Valtteri Bottas
WiiU: Max Chilton

I have seen all these analogies, I understand none of the.

Please what would they be in terms of hot women?

 

[EloquentM]

People need to chill. Ms is probably aiming for a mass market price point.

Didn't someone say Sony could get away with selling ps4 for 300-350 and still hold a profit

 

[Y2Kev]

Orbis - NYT
Durango - WSJ
Wii U - Polygon

 

[beast786]

You've been constantly posting this shit for a couple of days now, in every fucking thread.

Half of comments are repeat of what people post in every related orbis/durango thread. Telling him you are bothered by his comments and stop posting sounds like a backseat modship.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Orbis = Miami Heat
Durango = OKC
Wii U = L.A Lakers

Damn lol.

 

[RoboPlato]

Orbis - NYT
Durango - WSJ
Wii U - Polygon

Ouya-Kotaku

 

[Mikey Jr.]

6x bluray drive?

Isn't 12x standard now? Or atleast 10x is. Why so low?

 

[Reiko]

Isn't Yajirobe the only character in DBZ to not die in some gruesome death or get the crap kicked out of them they may as well be dead? the plot thickens.

Spoiler

He blew up with the Earth

 

[Kimawolf]

Orbis - NYT
Durango - WSJ
Wii U - Polygon

haha this made me laugh I have to admit.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Orbis - NYT
Durango - WSJ
Wii U - Polygon

Damn.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Orbis - NYT
Durango - WSJ
Wii U - Polygon

lol.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

6x bluray drive?

Isn't 12x standard now? Or atleast 10x is. Why so low?

Cheaper.

 

[RoboPlato]

6x bluray drive?

Isn't 12x standard now? Or atleast 10x is. Why so low?

Noise, most likely.

 

[specialguy]

Orbis=Mila Kunis
Durango=Kate Beckinsale
Wii U=Beyonce

I actually have no idea what this is supposed to mean. I just think using girls in our comparisons would be way more fun and confusing.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Wii U being Lakers just depresses the hell out of me because it works so well because my team is oh sooo shitty and Mario truly is Kobe. Shot after shot after shot - Game after game after game with fewer and fewer shots going in the basket

Of all the posters with Insider Info you guys need to watch for Thuway above the rest. Everyone else is kind of wishy washy on their info but he has been right time and time again.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

I just thought of the best one:

Durango - Orbis
Orbis - Durango
Wii U - Wii U

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWSHIIIIIIIIIIITttttttttttttttazzzacasf safsd

?

 

[Lasthope106]

Orbis = Nintendo 64
Durango = PS1
WiiU = Sega Saturn
PC = PC

 

[Durante]

The only really new point in this is the ESram bandwidth, which seems really low to me. Can anyone familiar with ESram comment on that?

Basically, it looks like compared to PS4 you get the increased complexity of programming for 2 separate memory pools, without the expected advantage of a higher combined memory bandwidth.

 

[statham]

Orbis : Evilore
Durango : Duckroll
Wiiu : Amirox

 

[nasos_333]

Not so sure, I'm running a 2.5TF gaming PC and sure games look nice and full 1080P on it, but nowhere near the "CGI look" some here aspire the leap to be. It's hard to see how a 1.3TF box could change that, written to the metal (lol) or not. With these specs and powerful PCs I predict tears in E3.

But how strong are xbox 360 and PS3 and still create graphics like those in GOW Ascension, Halo 4 and Gears 3

 

[enzo_gt]

What I'm getting from this thread is that though the spec sheet is pointing towards the Orbis having the edge, the bottom-line output is similar enough due to Durango's efficienc that it likely won't have any significant effect on what the consumers get.