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VGLeaks Durango specs: x64 8-core CPU @1.6GHz, 8GB DDR3 + 32MB ESRAM, 50GB 6x BD...

ScepticMatt

Member
May 14, 2011
4,095
2
745
Zurich
not quite :p


Anyway, I don't think 1.2 TFLOP/s is impressive even with "special sauce"
Also I wonder if the'll switch to HDMI 1.4b or 2.0 before this goes into production.
 

charsace

Member
Mar 23, 2007
26,623
0
0
Basically, if the ESram is the frame buffer, it needs to store all the pixels in the frame. At 1080p 4xmsaa and 4 bit coulour depth, the rough amount of memory taken up would require 2x4x4=32 mb, which is just about the size of the esram. Can't do much more than that. Tiling would burn up bandwidth to the main memory, so it is best to avoid it if possible.

I doubt games will do 4xmsaa. They will do 2x and post processing.
 

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
Jul 1, 2009
18,776
0
0
I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Yeah, I too was expecting a 100x difference so this is actually much closer to the wii u in that regard.
 

ghst

thanks for the laugh
May 9, 2006
15,206
2
0
London, UK
Based on what they wrote, it appears that the GPU can access data from esram and main ram at the same time. So in that case, the bandwidths can be combined. This is still limited to how fast something different can be put into esram to make the bandwidth more useful.

that sounds like a nice idea that is far more complicated and compromised in practice, kinda like the original promise of the 360's eDRAM.

it's very hard to believe this thing will be able to match the PS4, but i guess we'll see. it'll certainly be cheaper to manufacture.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,895
2
0
Windsor, UK
I don't see how you'd get parallel bandwidth. Even if the move chip can move data while the GPU is pulling data in, aren't most steps depending on the outcome of a previous step?
 

herod

Member
Aug 9, 2006
5,118
16
1,000
yeah, Kinect / cable TV integration has been a no brainer since they showed Kinect voice commands off originally. It's not a feature I want so I hope they don't bundle that junk into the price.
 

Kimawolf

Member
Sep 15, 2012
6,164
6
765
Missouri
I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Eh still its a quite a bit more powerful than the Wii U. It's just the rumors, like the Wii U ones with people going crazy talking about 3 Tflops, 2.2 tflops etc were wrong if this is correct. It's why it's best to not read those threads because they hype you up into thinking something it isn't going to be. Either way this at least seems to mean you won't have to break the bank to get the system, unless they mark up for Kinect 2.0.
 

nib95

Banned
Feb 26, 2007
34,618
2
0
that sounds like a nice idea that is far more complicated and compromised in practice. kinda like the original promise of the 360's eDRAM.

it's very hard to believe this thing will be able to match the PS4, but i guess we'll see. it'll certainly be cheaper to manufacture.

This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.
 
May 11, 2009
28,952
1
725
I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Unless you were expecting a high end gaming PC equivalent, in which case your expectations were horribly over inflated in the first place.
 

pixlexic

Banned
Nov 10, 2012
7,468
1
0
It's massively batter than the Wii U specs...

Massively battered? lol

But seriously the architecture is similar. The gpu is only 250 mghz faster. I guess i was expecting them to keep the same architecture of lest gen which would have totally screwed nintendo.
 

1st Course

Member
Aug 10, 2012
5,977
0
0
- at peak performance, the GPU can effectively issue 1.2 trillion floating-point operations per second

Considering that the 360 had a better GPU than any PC GPU at launch this is incredibly disappointing, even the GTX 560 Ti ($150) perform better than that.
 

charsace

Member
Mar 23, 2007
26,623
0
0
Yeah, I too was expecting a 100x difference so this is actually much closer to the wii u in that regard.

The wii isn't close to this at all. This is a machine built for general computing the WiiU isn't. Games built for this will be heavily threaded.
 

jaypah

Member
Nov 1, 2006
11,062
5
910
41


Anyway, I don't think 1.2 TFLOP/s is impressive even with "special sauce"
Also I wonder if the'll switch to HDMI 1.4b or 2.0 before this goes into production.

so leaving the 2 off of "192" was the joke? You tell some shitty jokes McBain :p

jokes aside, I hope they consider a higher standard for the HDMI. Who knows what going to take shape in the next 8 years, technologically speaking.
 

DieH@rd

Banned
Dec 9, 2006
35,046
4
0
6x BD drive is fantastic.

It will probably be X8 throttled down to X6.

I general, X720 looks very much like X360. Shame they've used only 1.2TF part. On paper, I still think that PS4 looks better.

Anyhow, now we know. Multiplatform games will be easily ported between these systems, 1st party devs from both tribes will create great games, and nextgen will trully bring big jump over 7th gen.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
6,005
2,860
1,695
Nothing new here and move engine sounds like the joke at B3D about the blitter unit. Nothing on the specific secret sause or what mods to the jaguar there is. If this is really it the PS4 will be much more powerful. With the extra compute unit to do the heavy FPU lifting to assist its 8 jaguar processors. Then only 32meg of esram is to small should be 64meg. Looks like they had to cut a lot to include kinect in every box and make it a SOC. It will be interesting if there is a backlash of core gamer if these specs are true. Got a gimped system to include the kinect.
 

zomgbbqftw

Banned
Jan 21, 2011
14,538
0
0
This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.
ESRAM is expensive, the total cost for both Orbis and Durango will be around the same.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,895
2
0
Windsor, UK
The HDMI-in, to me, suggests a pass-through for cable. I'm not sure exactly how it'd work, but I imagine it'll use HDMI-CEC so you can control your cable box from your console. MS tried to actually provide the TV themselves with the IPTV thing, and that failed to get off the ground because the networks like the current arrangement more than what MS was offering, so the next best thing is to run the cable TV through the Xbox.

I don't know how much info or interactivity the 360 can glean from the cable box over HDMI, however, so it may be a bit of a hodge podge of interactivity, and for that reason I don't know how compelling this function will be: you'll still need the cable box, but it may be a neat feature for people who already have a reason to own the next Xbox.

not sure any cable boxes allow to change channels using HDMI-CEC, you could turn it on though.

Best experience would be from DVRs that allow network control - eg latest tivo boxes. So you could use the xbox to give you a combined EPG (DVR recordings/live TV schedule/VOD etc) and if you select a live TV channel the Xbox would turn over the DVR via LAN.

If your DVR doesn't support that, you'd end up back with IR blasters or manually changing channel, and the integration becomes much less compelling IMO.
 

Derrick01

Banned
May 9, 2011
34,663
0
0
Considering that the 360 had a better GPU than any PC GPU at launch this is incredibly disappointing, even the GTX 560 Ti ($150) perform better than that.

We were not going to get another $500-$600 repeat after how this generation went, and how the world economy went. So this is the end result.
 

charsace

Member
Mar 23, 2007
26,623
0
0
Yes, it will be enough for 1080p but only if you are rendering one buffer at a time, and thus deferred rendering it's not going to work well.

We haven't seen a game yet so its too soon to say deferred rendering won't work. MS are the creators of the directx api. I don't think this system would not have the ability to do deferred rendering when a lot of their in house engines are built around it.
 

Gemüsepizza

Member
Nov 30, 2011
4,813
0
0
Germany
I still don't see the "secret sauce" which is supposed to increase processing power for games. Maybe there is a blitter, but that would probably only improve memory handling, not processing power.

I don't see how you'd get parallel bandwidth. Even if the move chip can move data while the GPU is pulling data in, aren't most steps depending on the outcome of a previous step?

This method does seem to have a couple of disadvantages, seems like they made a trade-off for a bigger RAM amount.
 

big_erk

Member
Mar 6, 2012
2,040
0
560
KC
This. It should be a good degree cheaper. DDR3 is peanuts, whilst GDDR5 is expensive. Having said that, if Microsoft bundle in Kinect 2.0 or anything like that, things could get pricey again for the consumer.

They probably want to try to offset the cost of kinect somehow. This seems like a nice upgrade without breaking the bank. Hopefully Sony has learned that sometimes a little less is more, they can't afford to release another $600 beast of a machine.
 

iamshadowlark

Banned
Jun 22, 2011
8,718
0
0
This isn't a PC so the number doesn't mean the same thing. Its obvious that MS isn't building for raw power, but efficiency. They are focusing on general computing and parallel programming.

I know its not PC, if anything the number is more meaningless on PC because of overhead. As a theoretical peak it is quite disappointing. Both companies are seemingly focusing on GP and parallel computing, the difference here is that it looks like MS is sacrificing power for Kinect and OS functionality.

Sony with a rumored 1.8 TFLOP GPU plus a Compute unit could easily be twice this, with better overall bandwidth going by rumors. Alot more efficient.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Jun 10, 2004
59,895
2
0
Windsor, UK
Nothing new here and move engine sounds like the joke at B3D about the blitter unit. Nothing on the specific secret sause or what mods to the jaguar there is. If this is really it the PS4 will be much more powerful. With the extra compute unit to do the heavy FPU lifting to assist its 8 jaguar processors. Then only 32meg of esram is to small should be 64meg. Looks like they had to cut a lot to include kinect in every box and make it a SOC. It will be interesting if there is a backlash of core gamer if these specs are true. Got a gimped system to include the kinect.

is PS4 rumoured to be 18CUs?