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[Baconsammy]

For me...none.
That is odd. But none. They will have one. Its NOT Kinect only. But no solid info at all.


Sure. It was reiterated to me that MS was fully behind doing everything the same like they did in the first few years of the Xbox 360 and that MS knows that is what got them a good deal of backing when the system first came out.
I was told there is a very even split between new IP's and faithful IP's. And 4 surprises.

So what are your connections telling you they're using to control their in-dev games? 360 controllers+Kinect?

 

[fixuis]

Only if Orbis doesn't have it. But I was informed AGAIN, on Friday,that it was in, and it was the same time I got much of the other information.

Wait a sec, are you saying you heard Orbis has BC in as well or a you talking about Durango here as well?

 

[Proelite]

Thanks. I'm as curious to find out what they do as anyone...do they have anything to do with the relatively large amount of CPU cache?

They could be helping with the bandwidth, and they might do stuff, for free, that was expensive to do on the CPU / GPU in the past.

 

[JaggedSac]

Sure. It was reiterated to me that MS was fully behind doing everything the same like they did in the first few years of the Xbox 360 and that MS knows that is what got them a good deal of backing when the system first came out. That is the 4th or 5th time I was informed that.
I was told there is a very even split between new IP's and faithful IP's. And 3-4 big surprises.

This is great news.

 

[aegies]

I wouldn't be surprised if they have two versions of the console; a cheaper one with no BC and a more expensive one with a 360 CPU/GPU chip incorporated to provide full BC. Doing full hardware BC a-la first-gen PS3s seems like an excessive cost to include in every console, as not every player will actually use it.

Differences in SKU for the first run won't have hardware differences, I wouldn't think. It'll all be post-manufacturing things (think the external hard drive on the Premium 360 vs the Core pack or whatever), because I think both platform holders will struggle to produce enough usable silicon for their launches. Particularly Sony, since they'll need to launch in more regions earlier.

 

[manzo]

I think MS realizes too that the "winners" of the last few generations have not been the most powerful piece of hardware... e.g. Wii/360, PS2, DS, 3DS, etc.

Price + Marketing + Form Factor + Games



.....

Power is somewhere down here

That's true, but look at the consoles you listed. Your console has to be relevant in Asia/JP and in Europe. 360 was not. Wii, PS2, DS, 3DS etc. were. As long as Nintendo and Sony exist, MS will never win the console war.

 

[Karak]

Wait a sec, are you saying you heard Orbis has BC in as well or a you talking about Durango here as well?

Durango.

So what are your connections telling you they're using to control their in-dev games? 360 controllers+Kinect?

Controller. TNo discussion about the KinectN or home or whatever they will call it.

 

[Reiko]

I have heard shit that is easily as insane as anything for Orbis.

 

[Thrakier]

I am just surprised at how much closer to the wii u this is than what I was expecting.

Ironic?

 

[LightOfTruth]

Orbis: Stronger
Durango: Can't Tell Me Nothin'
Wii U: Drunk and Hot Girls

10/10

 

[B.O.O.M]

Only if Orbis doesn't have it. But I was informed AGAIN, on Friday,that it was in, and it was the same time I got much of the other information.

Wait a sec. Am I reading this right? Are you saying you heard that BC is on for Orbis as well? because if so that's the real megaton here. I don't think many are expecting it to be present

edit: nvm you have answered above

Sony, all you need now is a better controller (just copy the 360 controller) and we become best friends.

I hope they won't copy all of it..just the good parts. Make the controller a bit bigger and had the triggers. But leave the button layout the same way it is now. Add the vita DPad and we are good to go

 

[Baconsammy]

Durango.

Shadow Complex 2 at launch. Wink once for yes, twice for no.

 

[JaggedSac]

I have heard shit that is easily as insane as anything for Orbis.

A controller that splits so it can be held in each hand for Kinect usage?

 

[MikeE21286]

Differences in SKU for the first run won't have hardware differences, I wouldn't think. It'll all be post-manufacturing things (think the external hard drive on the Premium 360 vs the Core pack or whatever), because I think both platform holders will struggle to produce enough usable silicon for their launches. Particularly Sony, since they'll need to launch in more regions earlier.

Can you see a SKU that has Kinect 2.0 and one that does not?

 

[Kimawolf]

People are too attached to GPU teraflops, they only tell you 10%-20% of the story.

A lot of folks are used to using it thanks to AMD/Nvidia beating us over the head with the numbers yearly, so it's understandable they see a "low" number and not truly understand it. Hell I don't really understand it either, all I know is this isn't what I honestly expected judging by what some people were saying in various threads. Why I decided to stop reading the rumor threads of old, they turned to echo chambers of OMG this will be face melting amazing. And where does this stack up in the order of things compared to the Wii-u if you can speak on that. Obviously its stronger, but how much over all? 3 times? 4? or back to the IGN rumor of being 5 times?

 

[Rolf NB]

Looks much like the Saturn block diagram with all those "accelerators".

 

[Baki]

Agreed. Before, wrt bandwidth, I said 'sometimes Durango will be better, sometimes Orbis'.

Durango looks like it's compromised on what it would have excelled at in favour of something more balanced...with it's 'something more balanced' being difficult to juggle AND less performant.

Although I guess latency on reads/writes is better from eSRAM. But if we're introducing compression/decompression beyond the inbuilt kinds on the GPU that might be a bit of a tradeoff.

And yes, the gain is capacity at lower cost. But again - fack!

It's really weird seeing you pseudo-swear. I always imagine you as a British Gentleman with a top hat.

 

[Ashes]

well modern gpus have higher gigaflops now due to the Compute Units, right? The TF is basically Peak Single Precision compute power.

If proelite is correct, and they stripped some parts away, for mysterious reasons. Maybe that workload got pushed onto the data move engine or something.

 

[tinfoilhatman]

This is great news.

Differences in SKU for the first run won't have hardware differences, I wouldn't think. It'll all be post-manufacturing things (think the external hard drive on the Premium 360 vs the Core pack or whatever), because I think both platform holders will struggle to produce enough usable silicon for their launches. Particularly Sony, since they'll need to launch in more regions earlier.

360 used software emulation for Xbox1 , it's unlikely 720 will need any "special hardware" to emulate 360 games.....should be easier to emulate 360 with 720 than it was for 360 to emulate Xbox1.

 

[Proelite]

A controller that splits so it can be held in each hand for Kinect usage?

My prediction.

Split controllers, each with laser, gyro, accerometer, IR bands, face button, shoulder buttoms, triggers, other buttons.

Fable: 1 controller + hand
Halo: 2 controllers
DDR: no controllers.

Makes too much sense.

 

[TheOddOne]

People are too attached to GPU teraflops, they only tell you 10%-20% of the story.

Sure. It was reiterated to me that MS was fully behind doing everything the same like they did in the first few years of the Xbox 360 and that MS knows that is what got them a good deal of backing when the system first came out. That is the 4th or 5th time I was informed that.I was told there is a very even split between new IP's and faithful IP's. And 3-4 big surprises.

Fantastic.

 

[metareferential]

Come on Karak, tell us what games you were informed about.

Pretty please <3

 

[Tripp Daily]

Does anyone find it odd that Sony(with their documented financial struggles and the desire to not sell the PS4 at as great of a loss) would all of a sudden beef up their next generation console after hearing developers tell them the specs of the Durango? I mean, what Sony executive would be scared of being underpowered from these numbers, that we are now looking at?

I don't think they would be scared at all, and more than likely would be relieved that they do not have to spend more money.

MY Theory:
Sony caught wind of the Performance of the next Xbox, and decided they needed to beef up their system to level the playing field.

This lends more credit to ProElites claim that the systems will be more or less equal and that (sadly) development of multi-platform will be different on each platform, leading to more "Skyrim" type problems.

I also think that this is in-line with what Microsoft is trying to do, which is corner the third party market.

 

[gofreak]

They could be helping with the bandwidth, and they might do stuff, for free, that was expensive to do on the CPU / GPU in the past.

Well, I know people kind of laughed about the idea of a blitter, but with the revelations today about the memory setup, it probably would make a good deal of sense to have an independent unit for shunting data between eSRAM and DDR3. Vs troubling a CPU that may not be always ready to fulfil that request.

Coupled with some things aegie's said, maybe you can add some on-the-fly decompression beyond regular texture compression etc.

Beyond that I'm out of guesses, if we're talking about memory related stuff vs 'things the gpu might otherwise do'. Are these 4 data move engines all fulfilling different purposes or are they 4 symmetric things, doing the same stuff? Are they all strictly memory related?

 

[Karak]

Come on Karak, tell us what games you were informed about.

Pretty please <3

No.

I also think that this is in-line with what Microsoft is trying to do, which is corner the third party market.

Agreed.

 

[aegies]

Can you see a SKU that has Kinect 2.0 and one that does not?

A month ago I would have said no, but now? I really can't say. If there IS a kinect in the box, expect it to do things that people on GAF would be interested in, rather than jumping up and down shit.

 

[Proelite]

Btw, if someone can tell me what an ALU in the 360 was, that'll be really helpful.

I was under the impression that the 360 GPU had 3 ALUs.

 

[Proelite]

Well, I know people kind of laughed about the idea of a blitter, but with the revelations today about the memory setup, it probably would make a good deal of sense to have an independent unit for shunting data between eSRAM and DDR3.

Coupled with some things aegie's said, maybe you can add some on-the-fly decompression beyond regular texture compression etc.

Beyond that I'm out of guesses, if we're talking about memory related stuff vs 'things the gpu might otherwise do'. Are these 4 data move engines all fulfilling different purposes or are they 4 symmetric things, doing the same stuff? Are they all strictly memory related?

I think they're different, Aegis probably can explain better since he has the sources.

 

[Baconsammy]

My prediction.

Split controllers, each with laser, gyro, accerometer, IR bands, face button, shoulder buttoms, triggers, other buttons.

Fable: 1 controller + hand
Halo: 2 controllers
DDR: no controllers.

Makes too much sense.

That would be beautiful. I'm hoping for the same from the PS.

 

[derFeef]

No.

Joanna Dark

Got it.

 

[thuway]

I am under the impression Karak knows nothing. He has failed to provide you with any sort of solid information since his initial claims.

 

[Kagari]

Does anyone find it odd that Sony(with their documented financial struggles and the desire to not sell the PS4 at as great of a loss) would all of a sudden beef up their next generation console after hearing developers tell them the specs of the Durango? I mean, what Sony executive would be scared of being underpowered from these numbers, that we are now looking at?

I don't think they would be scared at all, and more than likely would be relieved that they do not have to spend more money.

MY Theory:
Sony caught wind of the Performance of the next Xbox, and decided they needed to beef up their system to level the playing field.

This lends more credit to ProElites claim that the systems will be more or less equal and that (sadly) development of multi-platform will be different on each platform, leading to more "Skyrim" type problems.

I also think that this is in-line with what Microsoft is trying to do, which is corner the third party market.

The development of the PS4 has been similar to the Vita - that is, Sony went around to third party developers and asked for their input.

 

[aegies]

Btw, if someone can tell me what an ALU in the 360 was, that'll be really helpful.

I was under the impression that the 360 GPU had 3 ALUs.

This is a big sticking point for me. It would be great if a developer could answer, but I doubt they can : p

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

No.

I am under the impression Karak knows nothing. He has failed to provide you with any sort of solid information since his initial claims.

Only one way to find out... PM!

 

[Thraktor]

Differences in SKU for the first run won't have hardware differences, I wouldn't think. It'll all be post-manufacturing things (think the external hard drive on the Premium 360 vs the Core pack or whatever), because I think both platform holders will struggle to produce enough usable silicon for their launches. Particularly Sony, since they'll need to launch in more regions earlier.

Surely the CPU/GPU silicon will be the limiting factor, no? I would imagine it possible to design the first-gen motherboard in such a way as to be modular with respect to an XCGPU (360 CPU/GPU combo chip) which could either be installed or not depending on the model.

 

[Globox_82]

People are too attached to GPU teraflops, they only tell you 10%-20% of the story.

Numbers don't lie.

 

[R1CHO]

People are too attached to GPU teraflops, they only tell you 10%-20% of the story.

When apparently we are comparing 2 gpus from the same manufacturer, with pretty much the same architecture i think they tell A LOT.

 

[Quazar]

Thanks Karak! So it sounds as if they're playing it safe with tech, but focusing on games and content. One of these days one of these three companies will be forced to change the landscape though.

 

[Proelite]

The development of the PS4 has been similar to the Vita - that is, Sony went around to third party developers and asked for their input.

Yep, I don't think Sony or MS cared about what the other one is doing when it comes to specs, despite what Kaz said. They both had performance targets from the start, and they stuck to it.

 

[Psychotext]

Numbers don't lie.

Hips don't either.

 

[Suzzopher]

The development of the PS4 has been similar to the Vita - that is, Sony went around to third party developers and asked for their input.

You would be correct.

 

[derFeef]

I am under the impression Karak knows nothing. He has failed to provide you with any sort of solid information since his initial claims.

Basically no one has solid information and to be honest this "riding your own posts" by you and Proelite because you were right once does nto fill me with confidence either.

 

[Kimawolf]

I am under the impression Karak knows nothing. He has failed to provide you with any sort of solid information since his initial claims.

Well if you claim insider information or to be "in the know" don't you get banned for doing it? So if so then he'd eventually be banned i'd think or if not perhaps he is n the know. just can't be anything more than vague.

 

[ghst]

People are too attached to GPU teraflops, they only tell you 10%-20% of the story.

10-20%?

this is the point where you need to put your dog in the fight back on its lead.

 

[Dreaver]

It's so damn teasing that certain users like Karak and aegies have information about Durango and Orbis... I'm really curious where they are getting their information from .

I actually I should learn for my exams but instead I'm reading the whole thread, I'm not a tech guy.

 

[thiswasavailable]

I can only second this by saying they are internally very positive that backwards compatibility is very important for the first iteration or two of the hardware. So I'm guessing that means they'll pin it to specific hardware that can be eliminated to reduce cost as time goes on.

Sounds like the PS3 route.

 

[Proelite]

When apparently we are comparing 2 gpus from the same manufacturer, with pretty much the same architecture i think they tell A LOT.

No they're not. Very different.

 

[clutch.as.it.gets.]

It should be:
PC: SSAA
(there is nothing in between equivalent to MSAA)
Orbis: SMAA
Durango : edge detect or no AA
Wii U : sweet FX FXAA.

Since edge detect or no AA is significantly much better than having FXAA laying a steaming blur turd on your entire screen. And (edit;,typo SweetFX) does the same (steaming turd) for your colors.

I agree. FXAA is terrible. Give me no aa over FXAA.

Worst gaming invention of the last two years.

 

[metareferential]

No.

Then it has to be something big.

Which is even better than getting to know it early xD

 

[gaming_noob]

Sure. It was reiterated to me that MS was fully behind doing everything the same like they did in the first few years of the Xbox 360 and that MS knows that is what got them a good deal of backing when the system first came out. That is the 4th or 5th time I was informed that.
I was told there is a very even split between new IP's and faithful IP's. And 3-4 big surprises.

360 in 2007 really killed it and won me as a fan, especially after the superb Gears of War 1. I still remember the period where I was able to jump from Bioshock to XBLA to play Castlevania SOTN, then Mass Effect 1 and Halo 3 and eventually Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 1 (which was an extraordinary experience at the time). I really want that experience to come back.