zomgbbqftw
Banned
Wii U uses eDRAM. The E in eSRAM stands for embedded, MS are said to be using embedded SRAM, though we aren't sure whether it's full fat SRAM with 6T per bit or some diet version.
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VGLeaks rumor: Durango CPU Overview
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
Wii U uses eDRAM. The E in eSRAM stands for embedded, MS are said to be using embedded SRAM, though we aren't sure whether it's full fat SRAM with 6T per bit or some diet version.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Wasn't edram only 32GB/s?
And i don't think esram=edram.
Ivy Bridge kills Jaguar... But its much, much bigger size wize.
Jaguar is not designed to compete with hi-end desktop CPUs.
It's a competitor to Atom (a superior competitor, but in the same market nonetheless). How do you think?
To answer your question with less snark, not well. Ivy Bridge will offer far more performance per clock, on top of featuring more than twice the clock rate.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Vgleaks info are from SuperDaE?Do you mean this is all coming from the info SuperDaE leaked?
specialguy
Banned
Yes and no imo...it's true flops have seemed to flatline a bit lately, but I think they still do increase at the high end. It was more a move towards compute imo.
I'm not sure GAMES wouldn't still be better off with vliw4 8 Teraflop GPU's for the same die size as todays 3-4 TF GPU's. It's just both Nvidia and AMD decided games werent the end all be all anymore.
And Nvidia went from a extremely low number of SP's double pumped, and low flop counts, to recently greater numbers of SP's at single pumped clocks, and Nvidia's teraflops got a lot closer to AMD's this gen (eg conversly, Nvidia's efficiency per flop edge decreased). That's why IMO Nvidia made a big move towards AMD's philosophy as much as vice versa.
Between the EDRAM and the GPU, yes
Well, that's disappointing to know that consoles are not a match for 2012 PC hardware. :/
From what I've heard, I believe so. Without him we would have heard much less about Durango.
After reading the article, CPU looks good but it's far from amazing.
Seems most effort was put into increasing efficiency (branch prediction, out-of order processing, etc.) but it's definitely nothing to write home about.
Since this CPU does 2 IPC, I wonder does anyone know how much can Xenon do? IIRC, Cell's SPU have 2 IPC too, was this the case with Xenon cores aswell?
Seems most effort was put into increasing efficiency (branch prediction, out-of order processing, etc.) but it's definitely nothing to write home about.
Since this CPU does 2 IPC, I wonder does anyone know how much can Xenon do? IIRC, Cell's SPU have 2 IPC too, was this the case with Xenon cores aswell?
zomgbbqftw
Banned
I'm not disputing any of that, all I was saying is that GCN improves efficiency because they decreased the maximum theoretical performance. That's really all this "100%" efficiency crap is.
Both Sony and Microsoft have gone with architectures that allow for efficient transferring of tasks - like physics calculations - to be run on the GPU. So as long as the CPU is good enough for developers to dump their game code in, I don't think it will be too much of a problem, at least originally.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Wired then,he gave info to vgleaks then tweeted durango's spec will better than that?
All that last gen Cell work thrown in the trash:/
Perhaps he knows something we don't. Maybe he's trolling.
But his past history checks out bigtime.
Of course, I don't think it will be a bottleneck but truth be told I expected much more from next-gen consoles specs wise.
Depends how you look at it. Consoles have APU hardware that far outperform current or even upcoming PC APU's.
Yep. But Sony misread where the industry was going towards all those years ago.
If it allowed Sony to put in a more powerful GPU in the PS4, then I think it was the right call.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Not really. Basically all of what first party developers were doing with SPUs is now possible on the GPU, Sony's first party will be very quick to adapt to the new environment because they have been optimising for this type of architecture already.
Actually, that depends on your perspective. Cell was a single heterogeneous chip with high-bandwidth, low latency communication between a more traditional CPU part and separate, highly parallel processors with user-addressable local storage. Both of the new consoles' APUs are the same thing
Why don't you PM bgassassin to find out. He said he would risk a ban to prove his info was legit.
Actually, that depends on your perspective. Cell was a single heterogeneous chip with high-bandwidth, low latency communication between a more traditional CPU part and separate, highly parallel processors with user-addressable local storage. Both of the new consoles' APUs are the same thing
Oh. That's good then.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
Is there any chance DaE never give us newer Durango info?
I think it originated from bgassassin on beyond forums where he mentioned that Microsoft added VMX128 to the Xenon.
All 100% standard Jaguar :/
So far, only wizard jizz that Durango has are fancy DMA modules that try to fix the problem of slow DDR3 ram... Nothing very special.
I doubt it. Feds gave him the hot firepoker.
He's not even dropping hints on Twitter anymore.
specialguy
Banned
I dont think he even tweeted Durango's spec will be better. Somebody said Orbis looks way better, he said "you have no idea" or something, IIRC. Combine that with his recent podcast comments (n which he attributed favoring Durango games to developers having had Durango dev kits longer), and I just dont think there's a ton there.
I like the idea of some secret Durango bump, but there are too many highly solid sources like bkilian and lherre who have said otherwise. And we also have time issues, it would seem too late to add CU's or anything. And with so much of Orbis rumors proving true, it's harder to imagine all the consistent Durango rumors being false.
I think the best hope for Durango power is that the ESRAM, used in clever ways, can really turbocharge the GPU's flops efficiency above and beyond normal GCN/GCN2.
He wants to stay out of the shower room lol.
Not weird, he always said they were outdated specs dating back to 02/12. But who knows, for all we know Microsoft could be the one to release a console in 2014, we don't even know if their APU was finalized in 12/12 or not, they might intend to wait for stacked DDR3.
alexandros
Banned
Well yes, but APUs are low-end hardware. Noone uses them for serious gaming.
If that is the truth then this make SuperDae's comments that the 720s specs have been upgraded more credible.
MS won't fool me into paying for Kinect 2 what they saved on the console architecture.
As far as I can tell Kinect 2 only hardcore advantage is its implementation with Fortalezza.
And I don't even know how/if that would work well.
99% of Kinect 2 use will be for apps, and if MS is serious on making money on apps, I demand they give me a discount on the hardware before I consider paying for apps.
So Kinect 2, conceptually, should be very much a no-upfront payment add-on, or very low.
Just as consoles are sold at loss and recoup on games licensing fees.
No Halo 5 at launch, blocked used games etc...whether MS will price its console crazy low, or they really believe my (great) time with 360 has made me their bitch.
As far as I can tell Kinect 2 only hardcore advantage is its implementation with Fortalezza.
And I don't even know how/if that would work well.
99% of Kinect 2 use will be for apps, and if MS is serious on making money on apps, I demand they give me a discount on the hardware before I consider paying for apps.
So Kinect 2, conceptually, should be very much a no-upfront payment add-on, or very low.
Just as consoles are sold at loss and recoup on games licensing fees.
No Halo 5 at launch, blocked used games etc...whether MS will price its console crazy low, or they really believe my (great) time with 360 has made me their bitch.
Maximilian Kolbe
Member
That's what he tweeted
https://twitter.com/superDaE/status/298904320550768640
https://twitter.com/superDaE/status/298786387098992640
Unless PS4 downgraded the spec(which is not possible)
If all that engineering and R&D led to a sub par product... Durango engineers would be in deep shit. I'm sure they knew what they were doing.
specialguy
Banned
Yes I'd forgot the second tweet...
You still have bkilian and lherre saying 12 CU's is it...
Too be fair, they were probably given a budget and did the best they could with it, not aiming at a competitors product.
Compared to Wii U, Durango will be awesome, sure, lol.
Basically if corporate on high said "we want a low BOM" then great engineers would still be handicapped.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
Special sauce. Derp.
Seriously though, that's not possible. The GPU power is the GPU power, no amount of extra on die bandwidth is going to make is more powerful out of nothing.
HeLLKnight
Banned
Please anybody can put some light about this?
How could Microsoft decide to put 32mb esram 106gb/s, when you have 10mb edram 256gb/s in Xbox 360? IIRC, I've read that's because esram doesn't have ROPs inside or something like this, but I don't understand.
Moreover seems Durango esram can do a lot more things than the old 360 edram. From another vgleak:
dragonelite
Member
I think "hard"core gaming is a better term.
Dev-documents highlighting differences to previous architecture is fairly standard practice - fewer people in profession spend their time studying hw-architectural trends(outside of their immediate scope of work) than you imagine.Durante said:
But at the same time - are these actual dev-docs or just VGleaks essays?
Is that really an improvement? They state separate MUL/ADD execution resources, ultimately I don't care if I issue a MADD or MUL+ADD if they both execute in 1 cycle on average (not to mention much of MADDs usage is interchangeable with DOT).
And yet on the 12th, 7 days after, Kotaku posts everything superdae knows.
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2013/02/we...xt-xbox-from-someone-who-says-theyve-got-one/
Identical to previous leaks, he was trolling.
zomgbbqftw
Banned
at this point, I'm inclined to believe him. We will find out in april.
Read KidBeta's post. It is far more likely he was trolling.
dragonelite
Member
Isn't fetching data from main gddr5 like a 200~300 cycle penalty for a wavefront if remember it right?
But you can easily mask this penalty by having enough wavefronts running doing calculations.
You can probably increase efficiency for a lot of algorithms if that initial penalty can be brought down to 50~100 cycle penalty.
Because most the time when i used opencl for image processing i was memory bound read pixel in write pixel out..
even though nothing is official, this is what makes the most sense.
MS may have chosen to build a candy box, and fill it with crack (apps, microtransactions, lower retail priced gamesdue to no resales etc...).
Since the box is a diversion, they may have focused on making it very small (wife acceptance factor), very cheap (to get people have several candy boxes at home) etc...
And for most people, 720 vs 360 graphics will be mind blowing anyway.
MS is doing to consoles what dealers do to drugs. Build reputation, work on your customers addiction, and then dilute your drugs and keep selling them at the same price.