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Virtua Fighter 3. What a badass game!

Hee hee, I always laugh at those photos of Nagoshi from the 90's..

But yeah, honestly who's gonna die on that weird hill there, anyone who was actually there in the 90's knew Model 3 was king for its time. I remember all the photos, the videos, making the drive across town to play Scud Race and VF3 for the first time at Cyber Zone here in San Antonio. It was amazing.
 
I just saw that that Virtual Fighter 2 (and a whole bunch of other Sega games) comes with a PS Now subscription. I have to say, even the model 2 stuff, when it first came out, blew my mind, there was nothing like it. I think I put more quarters into Virtua Fighter 2 than I put into MK II and Tekken 2 combined. That game changed how I thought about 3d fighting games.

Tekken 3 Tag on the other hand.... I spent way too much money at the arcade back then. I lived close to the biggest arcade on the boardwalk, and the machines almost always had some folks around them.
 
You know what's coming next, right? Awesome :)

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note: Those are renders ^ of course (just so nobody thinks they're being passed off as real-time!).

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I used to have this issue and many more. :o wow that was a long time ago.
 
I used to have this issue and many more. :o wow that was a long time ago.

next generation had that awesome paper, loved the feel of the pages. wish I had kept my old gaming magazines, threw them out when I thought I was done with gaming, then PS2 and MGS2 came out.
 
The tech demo used on the 1996 e3 to showcase the model 3 with aoi dancing in the snow sold me forever on the virtua series (and Aoi)

Heck, I saw a VF3 cabinet 4 years aho on an arcade and I was impressive on how well the graphics has aged
 
Just curious, am I the only person that used Lion Rafale as a main? I used Shun Di, Akira, and Pai Chan a lot as well, but I loved intense matches with Lion.

God I miss the days of crowds standing around laying their quarters in a row on the cabinet.
 
Just curious, am I the only person that used Lion Rafale as a main? I used Shun Di, Akira, and Pai Chan a lot as well, but I loved intense matches with Lion.

God I miss the days of crowds standing around laying their quarters in a row on the cabinet.

I used Lion as a VF3 main. Mostly because getting a knockdown on Taka from behind potentially led to some hilariously demoralising combos.
 
Just curious, am I the only person that used Lion Rafale as a main? I used Shun Di, Akira, and Pai Chan a lot as well, but I loved intense matches with Lion.

God I miss the days of crowds standing around laying their quarters in a row on the cabinet.

In VF every character has main potential, even the low tiers
 
Read through this thread just to make sure I hadn't already posted in it.

I still remember seeing VF3 for the first time on that big-ass version of the arcade cabinet. Shit looked real back then. It's still hard to believe that was 1996 -- the same years as Mario 64, Tomb Raider 1, and Quake 1. That was at basically the beginning of the PS1/N64 generation, and visually nothing that wasn't a Sega arcade game beat it until probably the PS2.

Those kinds of visual leaps between consoles and other hardware just don't exist these days, the profits aren't there to support it. The only conceivable way I could imagine this happening today is if Star Citizen actually came out, looking the way it does now... in 2013.
 
The tech demo used on the 1996 e3 to showcase the model 3 with aoi dancing in the snow sold me forever on the virtua series (and Aoi)

Yep. I remember that demo, it was shown at AOU 1996 and E3 1996.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTBeGAhk79I

Heck, I saw a VF3 cabinet 4 years aho on an arcade and I was impressive on how well the graphics has aged

Agreed. First time I saw VF3 in an arcade it was like January 1997. They were expensive so I guess the arcade near me didn't get one immediately. But man, the graphics were mindblowing.
 
I never had a Dreamcast, but I played a lot of Virtua Fighter 3 at the arcade, and I would love to be able to play it again. I hope SEGA released it digitally for PS4 or Steam in the future, or at least include it in a future Yakuza game.
 
Those kinds of visual leaps between consoles and other hardware just don't exist these days, the profits aren't there to support it. The only conceivable way I could imagine this happening today is if Star Citizen actually came out, looking the way it does now... in 2013.
Well that was in the infancy of 3D graphics, we've just come so far and the hardware is so refined that leaps like that are not really possible. Polygon count is so high now (like one poster said, we used to use polygon count as a metric for rendering power), lighting techniques are so refined, and texture filtering so advanced that incremental changes in the tech is just not going to have the impact it once had, ever. It's a good time to be a gamer though, just look at what dev's can do now with the relatively humble power (compared to current gen) of the PS4. I couldn't believe how good Witcher 3 looked on that machine.

I mean now generations of GPU's are making leaps measured in multiple TFLOP of rendering math capabilities. You remember how long it took just to get up to 1 TFLOP?

For comparison, the most powerful super computer in the world in 1996, the ASCI Red built at the Sandia National Laboratories was the first computational machine able to achieve over 1 TFLOP (1.3 Peak) and consumed 800+ kilowatts of power doing it. The GPU in my PC in 2010 could process that much math at 200 or so watts.

The difference between enthusiast and mid range GPU's now is a delta of more math than the most powerful supercomputer in the world in 1996. The more complicated three dimensional graphic rendering gets, the more of an exponential increase in power it requires to improve upon them. Sega had basically release military grade 3D hardware onto the public at the time, as well as develop software that could harness it, and there had not been an opportunity for us to see anything like it before hand.

For a leap in graphics at the level of the model 3 (hell, model 1 or 2 even) in 1996's 3d infancy to happen today, somebody would have to release a 25 to 30TFLOP GPU tomorrow, as well as R&D the software to harness it. I think we are two or three generations from complete photo realism and real world physics as it is.

Sorry about the rant
TL;DR it's a good time to be a gamer, but we'll never see an increase in the level of 3D graphics that we did in the mid 90's.
 
It was outsourced to Genki, apparently AM2 was working on bringing it to Saturn. Sega mismanaged it incredibly.

No SEGA didn't and it's some sort of urban myth hat the DC version is bad, when it's not. Yu Suzuki chose Genki himself, mainly because Genki was made up from ex AM#2 staff. Staff that did a fantastic job given the little time they had to handle to port and on a brand new system too, while AM#2 were busy with Shenmue on the Dreamcast they handling the likes of F355 Ect

There was an interview with Genki in Saturn Japan mag, that interview Genki said they used 96% of the Arcade polygons and given more time it would have been 100%. That said bar a few missing polygons and clothing movement not quite as good it's a near perfect port at a rock solid 60 fps.

I really don't get why people knock the DC port myself. Genki did a fantastic job on that and with bringing Daytona USA, and Virtual Striker to the DC
 
The VF3 soundtrack is still awesome too. Open the Deadgate, Underground Subway, Raging Wind, and of course, Rowdy, all work great for a fighter...maybe would even work perfect for any action game.
 
Hey guys, it was 20 years ago today, March 13th, 1997, that Next Generation (Online) gave us initial information about what would be developed into Dreamcast.

Codename: Black Belt

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link

Indeed the CPU choice was finalized with Hitachi's SH-4, instead of PowerPC, and the graphics chip would be, not PowerVR PCX2 (a revision of the first gen chip) but a full second generation customized PowerVR2.

Next Generation Online was pretty accurate with what the general release dates would be.

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link
 
The VF3 soundtrack is still awesome too. Open the Deadgate, Underground Subway, Raging Wind, and of course, Rowdy, all work great for a fighter...maybe would even work perfect for any action game.

Great point VF 3 is for me the best sounding VF game other than the 1st VF on the Saturn. My fav tracks from VF 3 are 'The Hall' and 'On the Circle' love those tracks so much, they're even on my phone along with Orta's Ancient weapon :)
 
I still remember seeing VF3 for the first time on that big-ass version of the arcade cabinet. Shit looked real back then. It's still hard to believe that was 1996 -- the same years as Mario 64, Tomb Raider 1, and Quake 1. That was at basically the beginning of the PS1/N64 generation, and visually nothing that wasn't a Sega arcade game beat it until probably the PS2.
The PS1/Sat/N64 couldn't even compete with the Model 2, let alone Model 3.
 
Just curious, am I the only person that used Lion Rafale as a main? I used Shun Di, Akira, and Pai Chan a lot as well, but I loved intense matches with Lion.

God I miss the days of crowds standing around laying their quarters in a row on the cabinet.

Lion is my main but just in VF5FS. Akira everywhere else
 
VF3 is a very special entry, and was really pushing forward the series.

I liked the arenas and the fact that they were not flat. Always regretted that they gave up on this because it added depth to the game.

I hope that we will get to see the Saturn version one day. Still my most anticipated game :)
 
Unless you had a pc. If you had a good pc you were on par. Consoles were always weaker than the arcades.

For that window of time, that really just wasn't the case. I gamed heavily on PCs and also loved the arcade scene. Arcade hardware was several steps above even higher-end home PC builds, even ignoring the specialized software.
 
Sega were ahead of the game when it comes to the arcade scene but for some reason they couldn't translate that to the home-console scene, and by the time of the Dreamcast they were already on borrowed time before they were nearly completely wiped out like Atari is..
 
Man, I would love to see a thread detailing the creation of Naomi 1 & 2 boards and the titles that were featured on those.

I was always a huge fan of the arcade version of SFA3 Double Upper and CVS2 on naomi 1 and VF4 and VF: Evo on Naomi 2.

Anyway, this thread is awesome! This just makes me won't VF6 even more. Maybe Yu Suzuki will do a Kickstarter for VF6 after Shenmue 3 is completed (maybe 2022)?
 
Man, I would love to see a thread detailing the creation of Naomi 1 & 2 boards and the titles that were featured on those.

I was always a huge fan of the arcade version of SF3 Double Upper and CVS2 on naomi 1 and VF4 and VF: Evo on Naomi 2.

Anyway, this thread is awesome! This just makes me won't VF6 even more. Maybe Yu Suzuki will do a Kickstarter for VF6 after Shenmue 3 is completed (maybe 2022)?

I'll see what I can do to conjure up a Naomi/Naomi II/Chihiro thread. I'm extremely familiar with all three systems and could probably give some neat info.
 
Well that was in the infancy of 3D graphics, we've just come so far and the hardware is so refined that leaps like that are not really possible.0's.[/B]

A dev can right now make an arcade system that would maybe even almost double past the top PC graphics you can get right npow. The issues isn't the gap, the issue is that arcade hardware was expensive and you needed to make a return or it was pointless.

Sega throwing tons of money on Naomi was a mistake instead of just focusing on console hardware. Just like the Model 3 was a mistake, you could almost do just as well with trhe model 3 on other arcade hardware, that could gradually be updated with less cost, to what the model 3 did. Instead we had Sega wasting tons of money on two arcade systems with games that people barely heard of barely making coin. it's why Midway jumped out the game outside some small release output into the 2000's.

Nobody wants to put tons of money on an arcade machine for super graphics and make no money.That is why Arcades died in the west, and that's why most arcade in Japan aren't even attempting to do that, and quite a few actually aren't that powerful at all.

I mean Rockstar or WB could right now blow us away with an arcade game with the latest specs high-end PC may not be able to keep up with in 3-4 years, and Take-two would lose more money they they are now even with GTAV selling 80 billion copies.
 
Only thing computers excelled graphicallt were flight simulators. Mainly because of programming. DID's simulators especially.
 
With the arrival of the first consumer PC 3D card with T&L (transform & lighting) which was the GeForce 256 in late 1999, the PC could match & surpass Model 3 technically, but nobody was making games specifically for that card, as was (and is( the nature of PC games, the lower common denominators (TNT/TNT2, 3Dfx Banshee, Voodoo1,2, 3, etc).

GameCube and Xbox were the first consoles to surpass Model 3 Step 2/2.1 in every single area (Dreamcast and PS2 both had hardware shortcomings that prevented this, even though they both surpassed Model 3 in many ways).

On another note, Sega seriously needs to start making its fans happy again, and 'switch' things up from their current course.

And the original VF3 was never brought home.

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Just. Do. It.
 
With the arrival of the first consumer PC 3D card with T&L (transform & lighting) which was the GeForce 256 in late 1999, the PC could match & surpass Model 3 technically, but nobody was making games specifically for that card, as was (and is( the nature of PC games, the lower common denominators (TNT/TNT2, 3Dfx Banshee, Voodoo1,2, 3, etc).

GameCube and Xbox were the first consoles to surpass Model 3 Step 2/2.1 in every single area (Dreamcast and PS2 both had hardware shortcomings that prevented this, even though they both surpassed Model 3 in many ways).

On another note, Sega seriously needs to start making its fans happy again, and 'switch' things up from their current course.

And the original VF3 was never brought home.

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Just. Do. It.

No, however by that time they were on par with trades in weaknesses.
 
Funny how one of the magazine pages posted on here when mentioning about the Dreamcast port, call it "arcade perfect" when it fact wasn't...
 
A dev can right now make an arcade system that would maybe even almost double past the top PC graphics you can get right npow. The issues isn't the gap, the issue is that arcade hardware was expensive and you needed to make a return or it was pointless.

Sega throwing tons of money on Naomi was a mistake instead of just focusing on console hardware. Just like the Model 3 was a mistake, you could almost do just as well with trhe model 3 on other arcade hardware, that could gradually be updated with less cost, to what the model 3 did. Instead we had Sega wasting tons of money on two arcade systems with games that people barely heard of barely making coin. it's why Midway jumped out the game outside some small release output into the 2000's.

Nobody wants to put tons of money on an arcade machine for super graphics and make no money.That is why Arcades died in the west, and that's why most arcade in Japan aren't even attempting to do that, and quite a few actually aren't that powerful at all.

I mean Rockstar or WB could right now blow us away with an arcade game with the latest specs high-end PC may not be able to keep up with in 3-4 years, and Take-two would lose more money they they are now even with GTAV selling 80 billion copies.

You're continuously rewriting history.

Throwing tons of money on Naomi? The Naomi WAS the low-cost option, much like the ST-V before it. It was a Dreamcast in an arcade cabinet, and even read from a GD-ROM. The Naomi essentially marked the end of the arcades having notable hardware superiority.

Model 3 was a mistake? Sega's arcade business during the Model boards era (each one being powerful as fuck relative to other hardware of the time) was what kept them alive throughout their disastrous 32-bit console era. Yu Suzuki was recently quoted saying "the company ‘easily recouped' Shenmue‘s development budget with profits from Virtua Fighter 3 and 4."... and at this point in time Shenmue was the most expensive game in existence. Sega's arcade dominance was largely in part because their games stood out for being ahead of their time, and unlike anything you could experience at home.

Also, when you say that you could do "almost as well as Model 3 on other hardware"... I assume you're talking financially (so something like Tekken 3), rather than graphically? Because if not... then you really need to provide some examples of these games that were doing "almost as well" on other hardware... because as someone that spent damn near every day at the arcades back then, I couldn't name them.

Funny how one of the magazine pages posted on here when mentioning about the Dreamcast port, call it "arcade perfect" when it fact wasn't...

To be fair, the term "arcade perfect" up to that point had essentially never actually meant arcade perfect, and Virtua Fighter 3tb on Dreamcast was a lot closer to being so than the majority of titles in prior gens that would have been described that way.
 
You're continuously rewriting history.

Throwing tons of money on Naomi? The Naomi WAS the low-cost option, much like the ST-V before it. It was a Dreamcast in an arcade cabinet, and even read from a GD-ROM. The Naomi essentially marked the end of the arcades having notable hardware superiority.

Model 3 was a mistake? Sega's arcade business during the Model boards era (each one being powerful as fuck relative to other hardware of the time) was what kept them alive throughout their disastrous 32-bit console era. Yu Suzuki was recently quoted saying "the company ‘easily recouped’ Shenmue‘s development budget with profits from Virtua Fighter 3 and 4.”... and at this point in time Shenmue was the most expensive game in existence. Sega's arcade dominance was largely in part because their games stood out for being ahead of their time, and unlike anything you could experience at home.

Also, when you say that you could do "almost as well as Model 3 on other hardware"... I assume you're talking financially (so something like Tekken 3), rather than graphically? Because if not... then you really need to provide some examples of these games that were doing "almost as well" on other hardware... because as someone that spent damn near every day at the arcades back then, I couldn't name them.



To be fair, the term "arcade perfect" up to that point had essentially never actually meant arcade perfect, and Virtua Fighter 3tb on Dreamcast was a lot closer to being so than the majority of titles in prior gens that would have been described that way.

How?

Prove to me with a link that the model 3 made them any significant amount of money, They were in the red when they left the saturn, how could the Arcade machines have been what kept them around?

Model 3 was expensive. naomi was the low cost option but they put as much investment in Naoimi arcade games as the Dreamcast console. Which meant they were spending money in two areas. Another example of them wasting money. If they focused only on the Dreamcast, they may have had some more profit to throw out there to maybe regain footing, instead they threw money at two industried instead of one along with partially supporting the saturn nearing its end.

Most of what sega did was waste money in many different areas i thought this was a known fact. If I'm not wrong how would the arcade business be excluded from them putting their fingers in too many pies?
 
A dev can right now make an arcade system that would maybe even almost double past the top PC graphics you can get right npow. The issues isn't the gap, the issue is that arcade hardware was expensive and you needed to make a return or it was pointless..
I mean Rockstar or WB could right now blow us away with an arcade game with the latest specs high-end PC may not be able to keep up with in 3-4 years, and Take-two would lose more money they they are now even with GTAV selling 80 billion copies.

No, video game developers don't develop graphics chipsets and hardware. Neither Rockstar or WB can develop a piece of hardware that is 3-4 times as powerful as the 1080ti. No company on the planet can currently without just shoving thousands of dollars worth of off the shelf GPU's in it. No dev can make an arcade cabinet that is twice as powerful as two 1080ti's... without also developing a mainboard chipsets that could SLI 3 or 4 1080Ti's in it or using parallel processing server cabinets stacked with Quadro P6000s, which is just insane. This seems self explanatory though.
Just developing an engine that could harness that and differentiate itself from current top tier graphics would be a long shot, they'd have to develop whole new rendering methods, filtering effects that don't exist, and new lighting engines that don't exist. How would they just come up with an engine that has tech from 4 years in the future? That shit doesn't happen anymore, PC and Workstation GPU's now represent the cutting edge of graphics technology, unlike the days of the Sega Model boards.

Nobody wants to put tons of money on an arcade machine for super graphics and make no money.That is why Arcades died in the west, and that's why most arcade in Japan aren't even attempting to do that, and quite a few actually aren't that powerful at all.

That is not why arcades died in the west dude, by 2001 arcade machines were no longer based on proprietary hardware, if they were, then the said company was buying it from Sega or Namco. The NAOMI was licensed to multiple companies by this time. You should do some reading on this, really. Here is a good article the verge did three years ago.


Sega throwing tons of money on Naomi was a mistake instead of just focusing on console hardware.

Model 3 was expensive. naomi was the low cost option but they put as much investment in Naoimi arcade games as the Dreamcast console. Which meant they were spending money in two areas.

You talk about asking for links... Where do you get the idea that Sega put just as much money in the Naoimi as they did in developing the Dreamcast? Naoimi WAS the Dreamcast hardware, it was already developed? How does this make sense? How is you think they spent the same amount of capital that it required to develop an entirely new piece of hardware as it did putting said hardware into an arcade cabinet with a few upgrades that consisted of just increasing the amount of parts it already had in it? Just so you know, in reference to your statement that they would need hardware that they could improve incrementally, NAOIMI was modular, you could upgrade it as you wanted:
Multiple NAOMI boards can be clustered to improve graphics performance and to support multiple-monitor output. A special game cabinet for the NAOMI, NAOMI Universal Cabinet, houses up to sixteen boards for this purpose. Multiple-board variants are referred to as NAOMI Multiboard hardware, which debuted in 1999.

I would like a source for the above statement of yours that I put in bold and quoted, because I'm almost certain you made that up. Scratch that, I'm absolutely positive you made that up.

In reference to your statement that Sega was not making much money off the arcade hardware, I'll leave you with this:

From the Sega Retro.org wiki:
It was the most powerful game system in its time, an order of magnitude more powerful than PC graphics cards from 1998, which were still producing Model 2 quality graphics, two years years after the Model 3's release.[45] By 2000, the Sega Model 2 & 3 had sold over 200,000 arcade systems worldwide,[46] making them some of the best-selling arcade game boards of all time. At around $15,000 each (for the Model 2, with the Model 3 costing higher), this amounts to at least over $3 billion revenue from cabinet sales, equivalent to over $4.9 billion in 2014.
See that part about PC's producing model 2 level graphics two years after the release of Model 3?
Like Amy S explained, the GeForce 256 was the first of the era of PC domination with the addition of transform and lighting, but we did not yet have a common denominator API front-end, something that would be established with DX and Open GL, but in 99 some vendors were still using proprietary API's.

For anyone who's interested, this is one of the best articles I've ever read on the history of GPU's, it's an awesome archiving of PC tech in a four part article by Techspot.

By 2002 most new arcade cabinets were just based on PC graphics, because it was no longer cost effective to develop your own hardware. Which leads me back to your point at the top that software devs could magically make cabinets that are 4 years ahead of top tier PC's, that is profoundly....

I'm going to let this discussion go now, do a little research so you don't make statements like the above.
Start with these:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_arcade_system_boards#Sega_Model_3
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Sega_arcade_system_boards#Sega_NAOMI_series
Notice how I use facts and sources.This is a video game forum, you're going to have to get better at this, hope this helps.
 
Lots of smaller arcade operators in other countries preferred the option to rent arcades from distributors instead of buying cabs.
Sometimes it was not up to them to choose what to rent.
 
Sega throwing tons of money on Naomi was a mistake instead of just focusing on console hardware. Just like the Model 3 was a mistake, you could almost do just as well with trhe model 3 on other arcade hardware, that could gradually be updated with less cost, to what the model 3 did. Instead we had Sega wasting tons of money on two arcade systems with games that people barely heard of barely making coin. it's why Midway jumped out the game outside some small release output into the 2000's.

Sorry NA@MI is SEGA most successful Arcade board ever and made SEGA money. It was also way cheaper for developers and Arcade operators, which is why the likes of G-Rev used it rather than TAITO's type X board.
 
How?


Model 3 was expensive. naomi was the low cost option but they put as much investment in Naoimi arcade games as the Dreamcast console

Mode 3 lost SEGA money, its one of the few times in SEGA History that its AM# dept's didn't report a profit in 1998 I think it was . NA@MI made SEGA a ton of cash and it was one of most successful Arcade boards there's ever been and NA@MI II just built on that and thanks alone to VF 4 SEGA was able to post it's 1st profit in years


It's not really fair to bring inthe consumer dept to be honest. MS with the XBox was losing a ton of money, even thought it was using a PC components, but there was various reasons for that, like it was for the DC.
 
You're continuously rewriting history.

Throwing tons of money on Naomi? The Naomi WAS the low-cost option, much like the ST-V before it. It was a Dreamcast in an arcade cabinet, and even read from a GD-ROM. The Naomi essentially marked the end of the arcades having notable hardware superiority.

Model 3 was a mistake? Sega's arcade business during the Model boards era (each one being powerful as fuck relative to other hardware of the time) was what kept them alive throughout their disastrous 32-bit console era. Yu Suzuki was recently quoted saying "the company ‘easily recouped’ Shenmue‘s development budget with profits from Virtua Fighter 3 and 4.”... and at this point in time Shenmue was the most expensive game in existence. Sega's arcade dominance was largely in part because their games stood out for being ahead of their time, and unlike anything you could experience at home.

Also, when you say that you could do "almost as well as Model 3 on other hardware"... I assume you're talking financially (so something like Tekken 3), rather than graphically? Because if not... then you really need to provide some examples of these games that were doing "almost as well" on other hardware... because as someone that spent damn near every day at the arcades back then, I couldn't name them.



To be fair, the term "arcade perfect" up to that point had essentially never actually meant arcade perfect, and Virtua Fighter 3tb on Dreamcast was a lot closer to being so than the majority of titles in prior gens that would have been described that way.


Yeah, VF3tb was (arguably) closer to the arcade than Tekken 3 on PS1 was to its PS1 -based System 12 arcade version. The PS1 version had to lose the 3D backgrounds.
The downgrades on VF3tb for Dreamcast were due to a lack of time and developing on still incomplete hardware, not a lack of power or RAM.
 
Hey guys, it was 20 years ago today, March 13th, 1997, that Next Generation (Online) gave us initial information about what would be developed into Dreamcast.

Indeed the CPU choice was finalized with Hitachi's SH-4, instead of PowerPC, and the graphics chip would be, not PowerVR PCX2 (a revision of the first gen chip) but a full second generation customized PowerVR2.

Next Generation Online was pretty accurate with what the general release dates would be.

Hey Amy, I see some of these awesome scans from above hotlink to imgur, did you scan these yourself, and if not, how did you find them?

Mode 3 lost SEGA money, its one of the few times in SEGA History that its AM# dept's didn't report a profit in 1998 I think it was . NA@MI made SEGA a ton of cash and it was one of most successful Arcade boards there's ever been and NA@MI II just built on that and thanks alone to VF 4 SEGA was able to post it's 1st profit in years


It's not really fair to bring inthe consumer dept to be honest. MS with the XBox was losing a ton of money, even thought it was using a PC components, but there was various reasons for that, like it was for the DC.
You know, I could never find any information about this in the past or now, do you remember where you read that part about AM3 not returning a profit?
 
You know, I could never find any information about this in the past or now, do you remember where you read that part about AM3 not returning a profit?

Not just AM#3, but the whole of SEGA AM depts lost money in 1997/8 thanks to the high cost and low take up of Model 3. I think it was the 1st time SEGA AM dept lost money in the whole of the CSK era.

NA@MI was needed and also brought the AM dept back in to profit and NA@MI board was at least $500 cheaper than the Type X board, which is why so many small developers loved it inthe Arcades
 
How?

Prove to me with a link that the model 3 made them any significant amount of money, They were in the red when they left the saturn, how could the Arcade machines have been what kept them around?

Model 3 was expensive. naomi was the low cost option but they put as much investment in Naoimi arcade games as the Dreamcast console. Which meant they were spending money in two areas. Another example of them wasting money. If they focused only on the Dreamcast, they may have had some more profit to throw out there to maybe regain footing, instead they threw money at two industried instead of one along with partially supporting the saturn nearing its end.

Most of what sega did was waste money in many different areas i thought this was a known fact. If I'm not wrong how would the arcade business be excluded from them putting their fingers in too many pies?

Yes, Sega wasted money in many different areas... the majority of those areas were in the console/handheld market however. Having your finger in too many pies doesn't mean all the pies are bad.

Spladam's already posted what I was going to in response to arcade revenue. I will add though that Sega as a whole whilst posting declining profits during the 32bit gen, they were still posting profits, despite the financial black hole that the Saturn was.

The Naomi board was designed for this market where high-end hardware was no longer viable, and not only was one of the longest surviving arcade boards in active use... but was also widely adopted by arcade makers other than Sega themselves.

What the hell gives you the idea that Sega would have had more profit to play around with if they had restricted themselves to only the Dreamcast? The Dreamcast itself was being sold for dirt cheap, in an effort to claw back marketshare, and much of its library strength came from Naomi ports (House of the Dead 2, Power Stone, Crazy Taxi, etc). They would have been absolutely fucked without the arcade market... to the point where transitioning over to software may not even have been an option. Note that when Sega exited the console business, they didn't exit the arcade business... and are still a prominent player in that market today, producing new titles that unfortunately often don't make it to the home market anymore.

You're quick to demand proof of any claims people make that are counter to your own... but seem pretty unwilling to supply any of your own. Along with proving that Model 3 has any close graphical competition, you can now feel free to prove that Naomi cost Sega a lot of investment on top of Dreamcast (which honestly, makes no sense).
 
Not just AM#3, but the whole of SEGA AM depts lost money in 1997/8 thanks to the high cost and low take up of Model 3. I think it was the 1st time SEGA AM dept lost money in the whole of the CSK era.

NA@MI was needed and also brought the AM dept back in to profit and NA@MI board was at least $500 cheaper than the Type X board, which is why so many small developers loved it inthe Arcades
Well, I did find this:
By 2000, the Sega Model 2 & 3 had sold over 200,000 arcade systems worldwide,[46] making them some of the best-selling arcade game boards of all time. At around $15,000 each (for the Model 2, with the Model 3 costing higher), this amounts to at least over $3 billion revenue from cabinet sales, equivalent to over $4.9 billion in 2014.
Here
Which is the account I've always read, that they did very well with the Model boards, better than they did with the System boards. But I can't find anything on that now.
Edit: The account I've always heard is that it was the Saturn that drained capital.
 
Well, I did find this:

Here
Which is the account I've always read, that they did very well with the Model boards, better than they did with the System boards. But I can't find anything on that now.
Edit: The account I've always heard is that it was the Saturn that drained capital.

You're lumping in Model 2 sales, that was a board that made SEGA lots of money. Model 3 cost SEGA money in 1997/8. Model 3 was a great board, but it was very costly for Arcade operators and that hurt SEGA.

Also Sega Saturn was never sold at a lost, but cost price and in the Saturn years the system was developed, SEGA made some of its best profits. Lack of market share cost SEGA with the Saturn, not selling the system at a loss. It's not quite the same
 
When I tried to get my brother into fighting games a few years ago we sat down and played a ton of different games and for whatever insane reason he liked Virtua Fighter 3 the most. It wasn't even him being ironic, he genuinely loves playing it.
 
When I tried to get my brother into fighting games a few years ago we sat down and played a ton of different games and for whatever insane reason he liked Virtua Fighter 3 the most. It wasn't even him being ironic, he genuinely loves playing it.

Listen to your brother.
 
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