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Virtual Reality is Here and it is The Future!

sleepnaught

Member
VR is great, but not much worth playing. My PSVR just collects dust. Aside from RE7, nothing made me think VR was anything but a gimmick. Seeing how stagnant the whole thing has become, I don't see it taking off for another several years. Too expensive and cumbersome and nothing compelling to play.
 
What did you try on Vive?
The hardware is perfectly capable of giving pretty much everyone a nausea-free experience (even people who get sick playing on-screen FPS!), but of course the wrong software can always make you sick.
I suggest trying The Lab and/or Space Pirate Trainer, with correctly set up IPD. I can basically guarantee that you can play them for hours without ill effect.

Vive: Job (or work?) Simulator and two shooters (one Sci-Fi with robots and one military) sorry I wish I could tell you the names
PSVR: I played a game called RIGS that's like mech battles (but like a sport with teams) at best buy, and also played a Batman game that felt more like a demo at a friend's
Gear and Google Cardboard: Several obscure mobile-like games and some 3D trailers

Even the 2.5D-ish mobile games made me sick. Edit: FPS games have never made me sick, but choppy framerate (like in The Last Guardian on the OG PS4 does) and inverted camera does.

Edit: chromatic aberration also makes me sick, just for reference
 

Durante

Member
Yeah, I don't think people realize the design limitations present in everything they play, just because it's viewed as normal.
That's exactly it.

Even the 2.5D-ish mobile games made me sick.
Mobile VR is more likely to make you sick actually, since it doesn't have positional tracking or low-persistence displays. Also, RIGS is a game with heavy artificial locomotion (and even rotation IIRC), so yeah, not surprised if that made you sick either.

As I said, if you were to try exclusively software on the Vive designed to explicitly avoid artificial rotation and locomotion I'm sure you wouldn't have any negative effects.
 

anothertech

Member
Yes, tech demos make people think that. Use it for any longer and you'll realize it's just a gimmick. The effect wears off, you get dizzy and tired, games are not suited for vr or are just straight up terrible, relying on 3d effect to be impressive, without giving any good reason why the game is in vr.
Only someone who had only tried tech demos would say this. It's no more a gimmick than playing games on your tv is a gimmick.

When you use it for a period of time, you get 'VR' legs, or basically suited to the environment, after about a few weeks, my kids and I can use it for hours at a time no problem. The kids actually prefer vr games to normal games now, as it's so much more immersive, and easier to socialize and converse naturally in the vr setting. It's been almost a year now.

I'm about to try the new alien isolation mod. Hope I don't get scarred for life lol.
 

extralite

Member
It's an interesting technology, but after having tried the Oculus devkits and the Vive with room scale, I still think it's not ready. I don't think I've ever felt a sense of place but since I develop software and play lots of videogames, maybe I have a weird reaction to some things.

Have you tried games with jumpscares? Those are easy proof that VR feels real and gives a sense of presence. I mean, I flinch every time.

Of course VR is more enjoyable when it doesn't violently proves itself to you like that, lol.

Really the sense of presence cannot be understated. You don't want to go back to fake/flat games after VR. Even if you have to because many games can't (or won't) make the jump to VR yet.

I'm really looking forward to Skyrim, a game that never interested me enough to even read a preview. But an open world game in VR, that makes it the most important release this year. RE7 and FO4 too, for those who can play the latter.

VR is great, but not much worth playing. My PSVR just collects dust. Aside from RE7, nothing made me think VR was anything but a gimmick. Seeing how stagnant the whole thing has become, I don't see it taking off for another several years. Too expensive and cumbersome and nothing compelling to play.

For me, it's the opposite. I haven't bought all the games that interest me yet and haven't fully cleared everything I bought yet either.
 

Akoi

Member
VR is definitely the future. What we have now is basic but it works. Everything from here on out will be built upon what we have now. VR is not a gimmick like 3D TV, this is honestly game changing stuff.

I played superhot yesterday and I have to say, I have never been so immersed in a game in my life before. I was literally jumping crouching and dodging bullets and throwing things to defeat the enemy, it felt so epic compared to the regular version and you can't replicate that experience on anything else.

I can't wait to sink my teeth on more games that are out there right now and what is still going to come out still this year.

Everyone I have shown my Rift to has been blown away of what it is capable of. Motion controllers are literally a game changer in this tech and I can't wait to see what comes next.

The $400 price on the Rift is such a great deal if you already have a PC that meets the requirements. (My laptop and desktop do) and it adds a whole new experience to gaming that you can't compare to anything else before.
 

extralite

Member
VR is definitely the future. What we have now is basic but it works. Everything from here on out will be built upon what we have now. VR is not a gimmick like 3D TV, this is honestly game changing stuff.

I agree that VR is a game changer in a way that mere stereo 3D wasn't but the added fidelity of stereo 3D cannot be denied. It was a baby step where VR is a leap.

I see the problem with people dismissing VR without having tried it because they think it's just stereo 3D 2.0. But if we're honest, stereo 3D was amazing already. VR is just so much more so.

Like several VR device revisions too early and several pricecuts too soon.

You cannot cut the price for an unreleased product (I understand you meant the launch price was too high). And an unreleased product cannot generate hype like a released one can.

Early adopters don't think it's too expensive, and they love it.
 

eXistor

Member
Sure it's here to stay: it works. But overall in its current state it's got too many drawbacks: many people get sick, clunky headset, chore to setup, price, too little software that's actually compelling. It'll get there I'm sure, but as for now, I'm glad I'm not part of that first wave, I would have felt like I've wasted my money for sure. I'll wait patiently for a few more years.
 

newsguy

Member
I owned the Vive for a month and returned it. While VR can be amazing, it's in a state of infancy right now, and it's really only for hardcore enthusiasts. There just isn't enough content and the little there is, isn't substantial like a traditional console or PC experience. Sure, there are exceptions, but for now they're just that. It's the Wild West right now, but here's hoping that it evolves because there's a great deal of potential there. I'll definitely jump back in when the screens are higher res and there's a good library of deep games to choose from. Will that day ever come? I hope so.
 
Gonna say it now but SCALE in games is as much of a leap as polygonal 3D was. Seeing things in size relative to you is the real game changer. Not real life locomotion, not motion controls, but mother fucking scale. It really does trick your brain into thinking shit is real. Resolution is kinda bad right now and you need a super powerful PC for anything worthwhile right now but if you have the specs and 399, VR is without a doubt worth jumping in to. I wasn't a believer until I got that bundle
 
I will start caring about VR when more developers stop thinking in terms of porting pre-existing, traditional game concepts to a VR space. I want to see people really differentiate VR from traditional gaming.
 

Skittles

Member
Traditional FPS games resort to things which are actually at least as restrictive, if not more so, to work in a screen + traditional controls setting:
  • Making you move a mouse or twiddle a stick to look around.
  • Forcing you to look and aim in the same direction.
  • Either don't let you lean around obstacles, or only give you very limited leaning options by pressing buttons.
  • Make you press a button to duck/crouch, and only give you one or two levels of ducking.
There's a lot more where that came from, and you start to realize it when you play in VR.
Compared to that, in a fully immersive VR FPS, you look by looking, turn by turning, aim by aiming, crouch by crouching, and lean by leaning.

Seriously, try to think about this without preconceptions.

Well, the most fundamental thing that makes the Vive work, lighthouse tracking, is pretty much completely new.
Low-persistence OLED displays, which are used in all high-end VR devices, are also a really recent invention.
If you abstract far enough, everything looks like combinations of older technology (that's because new technology is built on a basis of existing technology).
VR also fixed the problem of motion controllers being bad due to mapping a 3d input to 2d space. Now motion controls are amazing because of vr.

VR is the real deal. Playing superhot in VR is the most fun ive had in a game in years. Literally not possible to get a simiolar experience without VR. We're only 2 years into real game development and we're already getting games like this. Its also hit an explosive point in its development and the amount of improvements we're getting is mind boggling. Wireless headsets will soon be a thing and we'll have finger tracking also around that time. Then theres stuff like eye tracking which isnt that far away either
 

Fredrik

Member
Anecdotal evidence...
Everyone I know who bought a PSVR were super-excited at first but within 3-6 months they stopped using it.
There is a dedicated Vive demo area in the biggest electronics and home entertaintment store here. Not once have I seen someone try it.

VR might be the future but the future isn't here yet. I think the AAA devs need to start making their biggest IPs from the ground up for VR exclusively before it'll be widespread enough to start replacing regular gaming. This idea that only smaller dev teams gets sent out to test the market just ends up hurting VR. It's kind of like handhelds vs consoles, of course handhelds will keep on failing if the games are either console ports or games made by B-teams. In the ends it's always about the games no matter how awesome the hardware is. And VR also have it's own technical hurdles to tackle that will probably take a few generations to iron out.
 
People who aren't don't see the potential for VR are very shortsighted. Sometimes literally.

I help operate a dedicated space where my fellow students at my university can freely, and at any time, try out the Oculus w/ Touch controllers (among Vive and other cutting edge tech) and play games like Robo Recall. We have middle-aged, mild-mannered librarians who have never played a video game before, turning into loud and lively gunslingers within minutes and come out with a huge grin and a brow of sweat. I haven't seen a single person who has come out being disappointed or underwhelmed, even seasoned Counter-Strike pros are breathless and eager to have another go.

Put simply, if you are someone who considers yourself unimpressed by VR, you've either it in sub-optimum conditions, either incorrectly calibrated/fitted so it's blurry or unresponsive, or a DK1/2, or with a demo that's more movie than gameplay. Because seriously, I don't see get how anyone could be underwhelmed otherwise other than for the sake of going against the mainstream. Maybe if you've had it for a while and experienced everything out there, I can understand that. But the experiences possible are nothing short of amazing. I'm not saying it's the future of gaming, but it has mainstream appeal. This all said, pricing, space issues, and resolution are all things that need to be addressed for it to become an actual commercial success.
 

Lakuza

Member
VR is weird. On one hand, it enhances immersion tremendously in those games where it works naturally. On the other hand, those games where it works "naturally", as in "just put the headset on and you're there", seem to be mostly limited to any form of cockpit based game. Racing Sims, flight Sims and whatnot.

Other games go to lengths to make VR work in the first place. Like shooter games resolving to teleport action as means of moving around. Like Minecraft being displayed on a virtual VR cinema screen. Which defeats the purpose of a VR headset. The whole point is to put you into the virtual world, not in front of a virtual cinema displaying the virtual world to you.


Unless someone figures out how to make VR work with games where you actually move with your character, I don't think the future is VR exclusive. And I don't see the driving factor for VR being games designed specifically around the limitations of what's comfortable for most VR users. I'd suspect the driving factor to be games like Elite, that work just as well without VR as they do with it.

Minecraft has two options (cinema screen and full vr, its toggled at the press of a button)
https://youtu.be/DDe9QjNE20U?t=3m54s
(it shows cinema mode at the start too for comparison).

Alot of games are having full locomotion added now. Here are few:
Raw data: https://youtu.be/CbWB4kL__Bw?t=19m45s
gunheart: https://youtu.be/XBaMURt-GzM?t=18m14s
serious sam: https://youtu.be/9wRf6eVgxBU?t=9m44s
Most games offer teleport functionality alongside it so people who get sick easily can still play. Games like raw data and gunheart encourage the use of both (especially gunheart which makes use of vertical level designs).


Then you also have games like lone echo that handle movement that I cant see working well outside of vr+motion controls:
https://youtu.be/W-uKhsC4m30?t=13m36s

And now recently, a mod was for released alien isolation vr too :)
 

dock

Member
It'll be interesting to see how long it takes for clutter free and affordable VR. It'll probably remain a hobbyist thing for a decade and then, if technology is cheap enough, someone will find a way to sell it beyond jump scares and rollercoasters.
 
VR is great, but not much worth playing. My PSVR just collects dust. Aside from RE7, nothing made me think VR was anything but a gimmick. Seeing how stagnant the whole thing has become, I don't see it taking off for another several years. Too expensive and cumbersome and nothing compelling to play.

Really ? What games have you got ?

I've got around 30 PSVR games now, there are loads of really good games to play at the moment.

I guess it depends on what type of games you like really, if you only play big AAA games, then VR is probably not going to tick many boxes right now but if you play a variety of games, then VR has a plenty of good games to go at.
 

extralite

Member
Minecraft has two options (cinema screen and full vr, its toggled at the press of a button)
https://youtu.be/DDe9QjNE20U?t=3m54s
(it shows cinema mode at the start too for comparison).

Playing Minecraft like that was a revelation. It's a perfect template how every game can easily be turned into VR*. People who get sick can switch back to cinema mode. We need 3D cinema modes of different screen sizes and different inbetween steps to VR. Players can immerse themselves more fully at their own pace with such options.

*It's most impressive for 1st person games of course but even in 3rd person games, you're still a first person spectator inside the game world, as opposed to watching through a screen.

I will start caring about VR when more developers stop thinking in terms of porting pre-existing, traditional game concepts to a VR space. I want to see people really differentiate VR from traditional gaming.

I think we need (and already have) both. Games that are tailor made for VR and use the new potential (like Farpoint, Eagle Flight, Robo Recall, Statik) and games that just use VR for the immersion (like RE7, Rez, Skyrim).
 
Minecraft has two options (cinema screen and full vr, its toggled at the press of a button)
https://youtu.be/DDe9QjNE20U?t=3m54s
(it shows cinema mode at the start too for comparison).
....

That's the low effort, too simplistic version of Minecraft in VR, get Vivecraft (also works with Oculus Rift and touch controllers + 2 locomotion styles and comfort modes)
-
Doom 3 BFG Fully Possessed is a better VR version than what Carmack initially prototyped. Motioncontroller support for both hands.
-
Even the Penumbra Overture mod has motion controller support for both hands, while a game of the caliber of RE7 has not (not yet?).
-
Then there is the Yooka Laylee VR mod, which doesn't future that but it wouldn't make much sense there I think
 

Fredrik

Member
People who aren't don't see the potential for VR are very shortsighted. Sometimes literally.

I operate a dedicated space where my fellow students at my university can freely, and at any time, try out the Oculus w/ Touch controllers (among Vive and other cutting edge tech) and play games like Robo Recall. We have middle-aged, mild-mannered librarians who have never played a video game before, turning into loud and lively gunslingers within minutes and come out with a huge grin and a brow of sweat. I haven't seen a single person who has come out being disappointed or underwhelmed, even seasoned Counter-Strike pros are breathless and eager to have another go.

Put simply, if you are someone who considers yourself unimpressed by VR, you've either it in sub-optimum conditions, either incorrectly calibrated/fitted so it's blurry or unresponsive, or a DK1/2, or with a demo that's more movie than gameplay. Because seriously, I don't see get how anyone could be underwhelmed otherwise other than for the sake of going against the mainstream. Maybe if you've had it for a while and experienced everything out there, I can understand that. But the experiences possible are nothing short of amazing. I'm not saying it's the future of gaming, but it has mainstream appeal. This all said, pricing, space issues, and resolution are all things that need to be addressed for it to become an actual commercial success.
It IS amazing at first, that's exactly what you're seeing, but going by anectodal evidence everyone seems to go back to normal gaming after a while, kids or adults. Same thing for mobile VR too btw which was the hottest thing for awhile.

Some say it's because they just want to slouch in a couch and VR is too tiresome but I really just think it's about the quality of the games and size of the IPs.

What if the next Resident Evil was the biggest and best RE yet and it was exclusive to VR (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
What if The Last of Us 2 was PSVR exclusive?
What if The Elder Scrolls VI was VR exclusive (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
What if Fallout 5 was exclusive to VR (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
That's basically what I think needs to happen. As long as the VR versions are an after-thought and the teams doing the VR games aren't the regular AAA teams then VR won't ever get as big as nonVR. VR needs to be driving, not just sitting in the passenger seat.
 
Only someone who had only tried tech demos would say this. It's no more a gimmick than playing games on your tv is a gimmick.

I've played Rush of Blood and Rez Infinite with PSVR and it still feels 100% like a gimmick to me. At the point of having 4k HDR for each eye, VR will be worth its numerous drawbacks but that's a decade away and, while I know I'm getting the lo-fi version of the experience, current gen VR is... bad. The visual quality isn't there, the comfort isn't there, the immersion isn't there, and the games will likely never be there because the style of locomotion most games need to be fun can't work in VR unless you're preternaturally resistant to motion sickness. Not that I regret having the headset, it's a nice novelty, but the experience doesn't even come close to escaping the category of 'gimmick'. It's not even as compelling of a gimmick as Wii Sports.
 

linzin

Neo Member
Anecdote time: I know four people (all early 30s, myself included) who've very recently tried VR for the first time -- went with a few friends to an arcade with a Vive setup. We tried a variety of games (some The Lab, some The Blu, one zombie shooter that I believe was called Horde or something). Every single one of us came away from the experience saying the exact same thing: well, it's pretty cool and definitely worth trying out, but a) it's not for parties (even splitscreen console gaming is more meatspace social than putting on a headset), b) it gets tiring after more than a brief gaming session (15~30 minutes), both in terms of wrestling with a heavy wired headset that isn't wireless and in terms of "I'm having fun fake shooting with a bow and arrow but my arms kind of hurt now" and "these wands aren't actually that comfortable to use", and c) my head hurts because motion sickness. My headache was on the milder side, possibly because I'm the only one who games regularly, but still unpleasant enough that I wasn't sad to put it down.

Admittedly, the Vive may not have been setup very well and the computer running seemed to be on the underpowered side so the last issue may have been partly due to lagginess. And the hardware will probably improve in the coming years. That said, even when it was working fine, personally, it wasn't this earth shattering experience like some people here are saying, and I don't ever see it becoming the kind of thing where I can lose myself in a game for hours due to sheer fatigue.

I do think VR is interesting and that the software side (the lack of "killer" games) will improve in time, but is it GAME CHANGING / THE FUTURE OMG? Eh. All in all, I was considering getting an Oculus during the summer sale, but was hesitant to put down that much money without trying it, and now I'm glad I didn't.
 
VR is great, but not much worth playing. My PSVR just collects dust. Aside from RE7, nothing made me think VR was anything but a gimmick. Seeing how stagnant the whole thing has become, I don't see it taking off for another several years. Too expensive and cumbersome and nothing compelling to play.

Stagnant? There's new games coming out every single week :D

Get on Archangel, Statik, Arizona Sunshine and Farpoint for starters.
 

Amneisac

Member
It IS amazing at first, that's exactly what you're seeing, but going by anectodal evidence everyone seems to go back to normal gaming after a while, kids or adults. Same thing for mobile VR too btw which was the hottest thing for awhile.

Some say it's because they just want to slouch in a couch and VR is too tiresome but I really just think it's about the quality of the games and size of the IPs.

What if the next Resident Evil was the biggest and best RE yet and it was exclusive to VR (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
What if The Last of Us 2 was PSVR exclusive?
What if The Elder Scrolls VI was VR exclusive (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
What if Fallout 5 was exclusive to VR (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
That's basically what I think needs to happen. As long as the VR versions are an after-thought and the teams doing the VR games aren't the regular AAA teams then VR won't ever get as big as nonVR. VR needs to be driving, not just sitting in the passenger seat.

It's like any new hardware. Look at launch games for a console and compare those to the games that come out by the end of that console's life. The same thing is happening with VR, but the obstacles are much greater because there are so many unknowns. The best VR game by almost all accounts just came out (Lone Echo), so as time goes by developers will learn more and more tricks for creating great VR games. There are some really neat videos with Ready at Dawn talking about what they learned about creating a good VR experience from how to handle interaction with objects to how to fly through space weightless and not make the player sick.

There is a well established language to game design, but that language doesn't really exist for VR yet. I really think games like Lone Echo are going to be the games that move VR forward as they are creating new techniques and standards that other game developers can use in their games.
 

Lakuza

Member
Playing Minecraft like that was a revelation. It's a perfect template how every game can easily be turned into VR*. People who get sick can switch back to cinema mode. We need 3D cinema modes of different screen sizes and different inbetween steps to VR. Players can immerse themselves more fully at their own pace with such options.

*It's most impressive for 1st person games of course but even in 3rd person games, you're still a first person spectator inside the game world, as opposed to watching through a screen.

I think we need (and already have) both. Games that are tailor made for VR and use the new potential (like Farpoint, Eagle Flight, Robo Recall, Statik) and games that just use VR for the immersion (like RE7, Rez, Skyrim).

Whilst its not 100% what you are asking for, it's close enough for games that are not vr ready and for that there's Bigscreen vr which allows you to use your desktop in vr on a cinema screen, to play games on and everything else. It also supports others to join your cinema room and everyone can have their own small desktops open like a hologram/laptop whilst one person uses the big screen.

Cinema size trailer (i've posted a proper example of bigscreen's use in the 2nd link):
https://youtu.be/_0nmtH_K2_o?t=53s

footage of someone trying out the app, its in a smaller room but shows the different users using their own desktops whilst the bigscreen is dedicated to one person's desktop:
https://youtu.be/5U_XSZaPKDM?t=18s
 

Fredrik

Member
It's like any new hardware. Look at launch games for a console and compare those to the games that come out by the end of that console's life. The same thing is happening with VR, but the obstacles are much greater because there are so many unknowns. The best VR game by almost all accounts just came out (Lone Echo), so as time goes by developers will learn more and more tricks for creating great VR games. There are some really neat videos with Ready at Dawn talking about what they learned about creating a good VR experience from how to handle interaction with objects to how to fly through space weightless and not make the player sick.

There is a well established language to game design, but that language doesn't really exist for VR yet. I really think games like Lone Echo are going to be the games that move VR forward as they are creating new techniques and standards that other game developers can use in their games.
No it's not the same thing, when new consoles launches you have all the AAA teams blowing their fuses to impress and compete on the new hardware. You don't see the core teams at Naughty Dog, Guerrilla, Santa Monica etc blowing their fuses to try to impress on PSVR, they're still focused on PS4/Pro. That must change before VR becomes a replacement to nonVR. To be a bit blunt, in the end a VR device is just an accessory, and it'll be treated that way by the devs until it's standardised enough that you'll get a VR device when you're buying your new Playstation because, well, that's the only way you play games on that thing.
 

extralite

Member
The best VR game by almost all accounts just came out (Lone Echo), so as time goes by developers will learn more and more tricks for creating great VR games.

I read up on Lone Echo and it really sounds impressive. The Rift is getting a lot of nice exclusives like that but I cannot afford a gaming PC needed for VR. Still, those are great additions to the VR library and they do advance the medium. Even if I never get to play them, other devs can still clone the experiences.

There's Bigscreen vr which allows you to use your desktop in vr on a cinema screen, to play games on and everything else. It also supports others to join your cinema room and everyone can have their own small desktops open like a hologram/laptop whilst one person uses the big screen.

Cinema size trailer (i've posted a proper example of bigscreen's use in the 2nd link):
https://youtu.be/_0nmtH_K2_o?t=53s

footage of someone trying out the app, its in a smaller room but shows the different users using their own desktops whilst the bigscreen is dedicated to one person's desktop:
https://youtu.be/5U_XSZaPKDM?t=18s

I like cinema modes in general but the cool thing in Minecraft was how you can seamlessly zoom into the screen until it surrounds you with its actual world. Moving back and forth at the press of a button between different styles really would be helpful for people who get sick from artificial locomotion and want to train their resistance to it.

It IS amazing at first, that's exactly what you're seeing, but going by anectodal evidence everyone seems to go back to normal gaming after a while, kids or adults. Same thing for mobile VR too btw which was the hottest thing for awhile.

Some say it's because they just want to slouch in a couch and VR is too tiresome but I really just think it's about the quality of the games and size of the IPs.

What if the next Resident Evil was the biggest and best RE yet and it was exclusive to VR (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
What if The Last of Us 2 was PSVR exclusive?
What if The Elder Scrolls VI was VR exclusive (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
What if Fallout 5 was exclusive to VR (PSVR, Rift, Vive)?
That's basically what I think needs to happen. As long as the VR versions are an after-thought and the teams doing the VR games aren't the regular AAA teams then VR won't ever get as big as nonVR. VR needs to be driving, not just sitting in the passenger seat.

I don't think you can force people into VR like that. Those hypothetical VR exclusive games would take a hit on sales and that's just not worth it even to advance VR as a platform.

VR will grow naturally but at a slow pace. And that's okay.
 

Burny

Member
Traditional FPS games resort to things which are actually at least as restrictive, if not more so, to work in a screen + traditional controls setting:
  • Making you move a mouse or twiddle a stick to look around.
  • Forcing you to look and aim in the same direction.
  • Either don't let you lean around obstacles, or only give you very limited leaning options by pressing buttons.
  • Make you press a button to duck/crouch, and only give you one or two levels of ducking.
There's a lot more where that came from, and you start to realize it when you play in VR.
Compared to that, in a fully immersive VR FPS, you look by looking, turn by turning, aim by aiming, crouch by crouching, and lean by leaning.

Seriously, try to think about this without preconceptions.

If what you're alluding to is a change of customer perspective on VR that leads to current VR type games being accepted as the new gaming baseline, favoring 1:1 translation of body input over locomotion as we know it in today's games, I'm still not seeing it.

The limits you describe of "traditional" games are there, but what you describe as restrictive are engineering solutions to the problems. They have one thing in common:

They work.

A plane doesn't flap its wings to generate lift and thrust, a PC's hardware doesn't model a human brain to do its computations. They are all limited in many aspectes compared to the "real thing", but they get the job done and done in ways that the real thing cannot hope to.

As much as you realize that those are engineering solutions after playing VR games, as little can wearing a VR headset and having motion controllers - even hypothetical perfect ones without lag, inaccuracies etc. - overcome some hard limitations: You're still you. And you are in your couple of m^2 living room, stuffed with furniture and build decidedly differently from your virtual world. This precludes you from replicating current 1st person character game mechanics. They're more likely than not beyond your capabilities as a human and most certainly beyond your living room's potential to replicate sprinting down a corridor, jumping over a chasm and cineastically sliding behind a chest high wall to take cover from alien fire. Yet, a huge part of current games' attraction is free realtime movement through the game world and doing all these unrealistic actions with your character. Not pointing on the ground 20 meters away and being teleported there.

Unless VR overcomes the locomotion issues then, presenting working engineering solutions to replicate the capabilities game characters currently have in non-VR games, the best scenario I can see for it, is to cement itself as a niche technology with games specifically designed for it and as goto display device of choice for sim-ers. But that's not what I'd describe as VR being "the future."


Who knows? Maybe all the change it needs is to gradually move away from first person games to third person games, where you don't have the vomit inducing experience that the game hero's acrobatics would be otherwise, but don't have to live without them either. That'd be a much less radical paradigm shift than limiting all your game characters movement to 3 or 4 m^2 and teleportation otherwise.

"But you can take cover 1:1?" Haven't the Wii and Kinect already shown, that this isn't exactly what the market wants for its "AAA" gaming entertainment?

Incidentally, I do think that VR maybe in some combination with AR is "the future". But I very strongly doubt that games resorting to teleporting your character around are. There will be either a solution to locomotion for VR games that also works without VR, or a paradigm shift to avoid sickness issues.
 
Stagnant? There's new games coming out every single week :D

Get on Archangel, Statik, Arizona Sunshine and Farpoint for starters.

At least on PC there are enough games now I would argue.

I just finished The Assembly last week, then you have stuff like Solus Project, POLLEN, Subnautica, 3 Serious Sam games, Rec Room, Lone Echo, Wilsons Heart, Obduction, House of the Dying Sun, Elite, Dreadhalls, Gorn.

Heck. Just this month you got Gorn and Lone Echo. Gunheart, a coop "Killing Flooresque" shooter that seems to be good released today. Ultrawings released a few days ago and people say its like Pilotwings in VR. Also Dead Effect 2 VR seems to be liked.
 

extralite

Member
Unless VR overcomes the locomotion issues then, presenting working engineering solutions to replicate the capabilities game characters currently have in VR games, the best scenario I can see for it, is to cement itself as a niche technology with games specifically designed for it and as goto display device of choice for sim-ers. But that's not what I'd describe as VR being "the future."

I think ARMS nailed how to do locomotion for VR. Holding and tilting a motion controller like an analogue stick might not sound that different to using an actual stick but it feels like you're moving yourself, even if you stay in place. I hope devs starts using that method in VR games soon.
 

Lakuza

Member
At least on PC there are enough games now I would argue.

I just finished The Assembly last week, then you have stuff like Solus Project, POLLEN, Subnautica, 3 Serious Sam games, Rec Room, Lone Echo, Wilsons Heart, Obduction, House of the Dying Sun, Elite, Dreadhalls, Gorn.

Heck. Just this month you got Gorn and Lone Echo. Gunheart, a coop "Killing Flooresque" shooter that seems to be good released today. Ultrawings released a few days ago and people say its like Pilotwings in VR. Also Dead Effect 2 VR seems to be liked.

Gunheart feels more closer to warframe or destiny since its not a wave based shooter. You select a mission from a shared online hub (social area) and can do them in co-op. The missions are large areas where you move from one objective to the next. Completing a mission will increase your level and get you money which you then spend to strengthen your character by upgrading armor and weapons (as well as buying new weapons). Its also cross platform for steam and oculus and the devs are hoping to release it on psvr and make it cross platform (no idea if sony will allow that though).
 

Fredrik

Member
I don't think you can force people into VR like that. Those hypothetical VR exclusive games would take a hit on sales and that's just not worth it even to advance VR as a platform.

VR will grow naturally but at a slow pace. And that's okay.
It would be noisy, that's for sure, but that's the problems VR in general is facing since it's so different, as long as the dev focus is on nonVR we probably won't see VR expand the way it needs to expand to be the future of gaming. I simply think VR needs awesome games in wellknown IPs, or it may "grow naturally at a slow pace" like PS Vita.
 

extralite

Member
It would be noisy, that's for sure, but that's the problems VR in general is facing since it's so different, as long as the dev focus is on nonVR we probably won't see VR expand the way it needs to expand to be the future of gaming. I simply think VR needs awesome games in wellknown IPs, or it may "grow naturally at a slow pace" like PS Vita.

And it's getting those. Just don't expect them to be exclusives. The exclusives will be new IPs.
 

Durante

Member
@Burny: by your argument, teleportation is a working engineering solution to locomotion.

Compared to the restrictions of working for flat screens and traditional input devices that VR lifts, it's only a very minor drawback.
If you look at things from a perspective which does not elevate the current traditional state of the art to an ideal that is.

At least on PC there are enough games now I would argue.

I just finished The Assembly last week, then you have stuff like Solus Project, POLLEN, Subnautica, 3 Serious Sam games, Rec Room, Lone Echo, Wilsons Heart, Obduction, House of the Dying Sun, Elite, Dreadhalls, Gorn.

Heck. Just this month you got Gorn and Lone Echo. Gunheart, a coop "Killing Flooresque" shooter that seems to be good released today. Ultrawings released a few days ago and people say its like Pilotwings in VR. Also Dead Effect 2 VR seems to be liked.
And you didn't even mention Raw Data.

Or Airtone, which is one of the most polished and best-playing VR games no one ever talks about.
 

elyetis

Member
I sure hope VR will be part of the future.

I don't think many people enjoying the original version of SUPERHOT then playing the VR version would not see how much of a different experience it bring to the table.
That's not to say that it doesn't comes with it's own limitation, like even if I think the VR version is superior to the original one, you see them avoid allowing artificial locomotion become some people would get sick from it. Which mean no jumping, and levels pretty much based on a standing experience.

Elite Dangerous is another good example of a game where I went "ok I want VR in my life". But I'd say the tech for this game ( and even racing game ) isn't really there yet, IMHO resolution is still to low to have a really really good experience with those games.

I don't think VR can ( or even should ) replace traditionnal gaming, but I most definitely hope more and more games will allow VR gaming, and with the improvement in resolution, FOV, comfort ( wireless, etc.. ) we can expect, I'd see the future look pretty bright.

Oh and VR porn will be the death of us.
 

Burny

Member
@Burny: by your argument, teleportation is a working engineering solution to locomotion.

Compared to the restrictions of working for flat screens and traditional input devices that VR lifts, it's only a very minor drawback.
If you look at things from a perspective which does not elevate the current traditional state of the art to an ideal that is.

They're both engineering solutions, but one isn't up to scratch. We don't have to elevate the current movement solutions in games. Free movement is objectively the more versatile solution to the problem.

Just think about what percantage of all player input in today's first and third person gaming landscape relates to movement? And how much percentage of the gaming landscape is left to point and click adventures, the method of transportation most closely related to the current VR workaround for first person movement? Edit: Point & Click game mechanics btw. can be easily replicated in a free movement 3D game. Quake can't be replicated with Point & Click as movement solution without being a very differnt game. Onet that's more closely related to a lightgun shooter than to Quake.

It's new technology introduced that excels at certain, isolated aspects - that were entirely acceptable in previous technology btw. - at the cost of a gigantic benefits already achieved by the previous technology. The new technology either catches up, developes into a state where it compensates its disadvantages, maybe also the paradigm shifts, that is to say the desirability of said advantages decreases.

Or the new technology goes the way of the Kinect. Edit: That won't happen for VR, as its just too natural for cockpit based sim games and will probably be too natural for third person games. But it may make the difference between a niche enthusiast product and one that everybody and their dog will use ten years from now.
 

Trickster

Member
I have only tried it on my friends Oculus, it definitely works really well. But I found that I only enjoyed it for games that supported the controllers.

And of the things I tried, most of it was basically mini games that lost their appeal after 10 minutes. The only thing that felt like a proper game made for VR and really wowed me, was Lone Echo.

Ultimately I don't think VR will become the norm for gaming. But I think it's impressive and unique enough that it can be it's own thing with a mix of normal games offering good VR controls, and exclusive VR titles. They need to bring the price further down if they want to get any kind of mainstream appeal though.
 
Just think about what percantage of all player input in today's first and third person gaming landscape relates to movement?

The Serious Sam comfort mode works actually pretty well. While you are moving, your FOV gets smaller and you can only see a small circle, that you dont really notice since you are moving. You can use the "standard console" FPS controls then and wont get sick. When you are standing, you have the whole FOV back.
 

Lakuza

Member
The Serious Sam comfort mode works actually pretty well. While you are moving, your FOV gets smaller and you can only see a small circle, that you dont really notice since you are moving. You can use the "standard console" FPS controls then and wont get sick. When you are standing, you have the whole FOV back.

I noticed gun heart does the same thing too (it can be disabled in options) where it darkens the edges of the view when you move with standard/free movement. Interested if it makes a big difference or not (I don't use it since i'm fine without it).
 

Blizzard

Banned
Have you tried games with jumpscares? Those are easy proof that VR feels real and gives a sense of presence. I mean, I flinch every time.
No, but I absolutely detest jumpscares in both movies and videogames, so I would actively avoid anything similar to that.

extralite said:
Really the sense of presence cannot be understated. You don't want to go back to fake/flat games after VR. Even if you have to because many games can't (or won't) make the jump to VR yet.

I'm really looking forward to Skyrim, a game that never interested me enough to even read a preview. But an open world game in VR, that makes it the most important release this year. RE7 and FO4 too, for those who can play the latter.
I'm not sure I ever got a major sense of presence even in Vive room scale. I'm aware of a hot headset on my face, of moving around in a room trying not to bump into invisible walls, of the screen door Vive screen in front of my eyes, and of limited field of view. I'm aware of having to move my head or arms to do things.

In contrast to what you suggest, I was happy to go back to fake/flat games. I prefer them since I find it far more comfortable not to have to move my head and arms to look around, instead using my eyes and fingers with only subtle head and arm motions. I have an ergonomic keyboard. I enjoy not wearing a VR headset. I prefer to avoid motion controls.

It's not because I hate anything new or different. The Steam controller is one of my favorite controller designs, and many people are very vocal in their dislike of it. It has a learning curve. It's very unusual. And yet, I used it to the extent of creating my own Street Fighter V virtual touchpad mapping so I didn't have to press face buttons.

It's not even because I hate physical activity. I try to work out frequently. But in videogames, I simply don't have much interest in the alternate control and viewing schemes, and I don't think I'm the only one. Because of this, at least for a while, I believe VR will merely be an option rather than THE future. It's simply not something that everyone prefers.
 
Until VR can get to some SAO style levels where you "fall asleep and wake up in the game" level of full body control without moving it'll never be as big as it should be. Not unless they figure out a way to help the half the potential buyer base who gets motion sick after 15 minutes.
 

AGoodODST

Member
I've not had a chance to try it for gaming but we had a brief in work the other day where they had the Samsung headset that uses your phone set up and we got to use it to watch some VR vidoes.

Honestly after wanting to try VR for so long it was so underwhelming. I honestly thought it was really shit. The image quality was horrendous. One of the videos we watched was a football game where you are in the crowd. It was blurry as fuck and I felt I had forgot to put my contacts in.

Granted there are loads of variables here that impacted the experience and gaming is a different kettle of fish but as my first introduction to VR I definitely don't see it as the future, more a gimmick like 3D.
 

Lakuza

Member
I've not had a chance to try it for gaming but we had a brief in work the other day where they had the Samsung headset that uses your phone set up and we got to use it to watch some VR vidoes.

Honestly after wanting to try VR for so long it was so underwhelming. I honestly thought it was really shit. The image quality was horrendous. One of the videos we watched was a football game where you are in the crowd. It was blurry as fuck and I felt I had forgot to put my contacts in.

Granted there are loads of variables here that impacted the experience and gaming is a different kettle of fish but as my first introduction to VR I definitely don't see it as the future, more a gimmick like 3D.

Gear vr is no where near the level of oculus, vive or even ps vr. That's like saying you are underwhelmed at the ps4 pro because you tried the ps2 and found it blurry pixelated mess. alot of 360 videos are bad quality (i have a gear vr so can say from experience), there are some interesting experiences on there where it's all rendered in engine but even then its not close in quality or immersion of the bigger vr headsets (especially since gear vr only tracks rotation of headset and not position).
 

Mephala

Member
I have tried it and disliked the experience for a variety of reasons. It was novel and not without some good points but overall I'm not on board yet. I do think it is the future though, maybe not in its current form. I'm hoping in the future we will see projections and not need the headsets or at least the headsets are a lot less cumbersome.
 
I've not had a chance to try it for gaming but we had a brief in work the other day where they had the Samsung headset that uses your phone set up and we got to use it to watch some VR vidoes.

Honestly after wanting to try VR for so long it was so underwhelming. I honestly thought it was really shit. The image quality was horrendous. One of the videos we watched was a football game where you are in the crowd. It was blurry as fuck and I felt I had forgot to put my contacts in.

Granted there are loads of variables here that impacted the experience and gaming is a different kettle of fish but as my first introduction to VR I definitely don't see it as the future, more a gimmick like 3D.

VR videos range from absolutely horrible low quality to okay/acceptable. Even the highest resolution super high bitrate porn videos 180 sds are only okay to look at. Games are quite a bit more fun than videos in VR at the moment (unless you watch videos via Pimax 4K HMD or similar, but these suck at gaming content)
 
No it's not.

Yeah, it's never going to be 'the future'.

I have an Oculus Rift and VR is amazing, but it's not something you do all day and even with future installments it's still going to be a clunky device.
Most big technology companies are already saying they believe more in AR than VR, at this point.

VR has a lot of downsides, let's take a normal family with kids. Would you buy an expensive headset that needs quite a lot of space, where the one playing is isolating himself from everyone?
 
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