Dictator93
Member
Pretty sure it just is. That is the point.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Visual Downgrade In Next-Gen Tech Demos Going From PC To Consoles?
- Thread starter Poetic.Injustice
- Start date
Pretty sure it just is. That is the point.
SniperHunter
Banned
Maybe it was the only level that they have polished and optimized so far?
Dictator93
Member
Actually that is not from the same build as the Forest section they showed off. You can tell because of the FP gun model positioning (which has since been changed). Roboplato can confirm with me, he hates the new gun positioning.
Can Crusher
Banned
Then do it. Put your money where your mouth is.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Who would have known - developers have different builds at different levels. Regardless, it was played out on the PS4. I don't see why some of you are grasping for straws. They showed the entire scene, in real time. They even paused and framed specific elements, showing all the wireframe and geometry. If you are worried that the game will be downgraded graphically; DON'T. Because it won't. You can quote me at launch. Stop blowing hot air over what really is a non issue.
TheGreyHulk
Member
Did you put in the cost for a case, PSU, HDD?
All gaming builds should factor in CPU, mobo, ram, hdd, PSU, case, windows, KB/m. Basically the essentials minus a monitor.
SniperHunter
Banned
We see this on all console launches. Remembet how bad Motorstorm looked at e3 compared to the final version? Even resistance got a nice upgarde. The killzone guys published detailes tech slides of how much resources they were using
They sure as hell disnt use a gtx 680 in february...you have got to be kidsing me
They sure as hell disnt use a gtx 680 in february...you have got to be kidsing me
Dictator93
Member
No reason for me to yet to be honest... my SLI 570 build is doing quite fine at the moment. Also, no one needs to put their money where their mouth is at all... nor be so antagonistic. We can pretty reasonably know what the baseline for next gen performance is already based upon the tech inside ps4 and xb1.
But I would healthily start recommending people who want to play at 1080p next gen to look into it. Especially now that the 7950 is available for almost 200 bucks. I can only imagine what kind of performance will be available at that price for the console launches... let alone 1/2 a year down the line.
The awesome thing is that crytek already have long term dev plans for when we have 15TF GPUs. I am excited to see what special sauce they put into their PC builds.
velociraptor
Junior Member
Exactly.
Can Crusher
Banned
I suggest only those who will, should be able to talk the kind of game you and others do. Im putting 399 on the PS4, so Im waiting to see others walk the walk with a 700$ pc.
Mhnnn then why put an unpolished, unoptimazed playable demo at E3? They could had much better impressions with the level of the reveal.
I have a doubt. Did the press or someone had the chance to play the demo of the reveal?
velociraptor
Junior Member
I've actually got a PC which equals the PS4 in specs (at least the GPU does). i5 2500k, 8GB, 6950. I'm going to wait as long as possible to see how long it takes until I have to upgrade.
SniperHunter
Banned
Even the feb demo had pop ups and it was using fxaa. GG said they were looking into a new aa method that order 1866 is using. And they also said they have upgraded the helghast models
Dictator93
Member
I am not sure if I understand why you would think someone needs to buy a 700 or $700 computer to justify your purchase of the PS4 for the sake of argumentation as to what computers can play next gen games. No offense, it comes of as some strange insecurity on your part... that really does not tie into some logic. Computers are predictable in performance.. you do not need some to anecdotally buy one in order for an argument to be made...
Can Crusher
Banned
Perfect. That way we can start seeing some real comparisons.
I have a Quad at 3.5, 4gb of ram and a 6850. Which eill be low end.
SniperHunter
Banned
Because they wanted to show something new. And that might have been the second most polished non crashing demo they had at the time. Remember Halo at e3? It ran like crap and and looked like crap, but the final game blew everyone away. Give them time
But they have the demo from the reveal too. Did someone had the chance to try it? I would like to read a hands-on impression of it.
SniperHunter
Banned
They showed that demo live on stage and the player died.....I don't know where you are going with this
alexandros
Banned
Yes, it has everything. Let me see if I can find the link.
Edit: Here it is. I don't know why it didn't save the keyboard and mouse combo, add $10 on top of that.
I don't understand this post. You dare people to spend $600 or so dollars just to prove a point? Seriously? Are we at a schoolyard?
velociraptor
Junior Member
Yup. Traditionally I have upgraded my PC every 5 years or so.
I'll be very interested to see if my PC will last this long this time around.
Can Crusher
Banned
Dont spin it. You are disregarding architectural differences and closed box environment.
And its not just about playing next gen games either. It is about being much better at it.
Thats a day after the reveal. I'm asking again Can someone point me out a press hands-on impressions of the demo reveal at E3?
iamshadowlark
Banned
I didn't say it was just on the MS end. I said mostly, as in, the vast majority.
Can Crusher
Banned
You should be one of the ones doing it. You cant go around all the time saying it and have nothing to show for it.
alexandros
Banned
Don't forget coding to the metal.
How am I not doing it? I just posted a build, you want me to actually buy it? Why?
Can Crusher
Banned
Dont forget saying you dont have a 700$ pc.
SniperHunter
Banned
No, nobody in the press played that feb demo
TheGreyHulk
Member
Hmm. I'd say it would need the 8 core CPU. I was doing a list myself as well. Funny thing is its damn near exactly the same as urs but with the and 8350 8 core CPU. So its about $800. I wouldn't say it wipes the floor with the ps4, its about on par IMO.
Dictator93
Member
That is why I posted my response.. seems like a strange thing to say.
Ans holy shit is that computer awesome (never looked at your previous post due to thread inertia). Add another 50 bucks and you get a 7950 3GB from Newegg. That machine would rock for 1080p 30.-60 depending up on the game.
Not sure what I am spinning. I just think it is strange that you have this mentality that somone NEEDS to buy a computer to prove a point. Especially the way you expressed your self with the phrase, "Do it... put your money where your mouth is." That just seems overly antagonistic.
Even with all those "wishy washy" and "dreaming" technical feats of a closed box and to the metal coding... I will happily wager that you can buy a comp for 700 bucks that will put out more impressive graphical effects at a higher precision at a higher framerate than a PS4. Guaranteed.
I say this because I know you can buy an incredibly awesome GPU to put in that build which is definitely more powerful than the GPU in the PS4. Also.. wouldn't it make sense that something which costs more.. would perform better?
alexandros
Banned
No, I don't. My current PC cost me 623€ when I bought it five years ago, since then I sold my previous card for 50€ (a Radeon 4850) and bought a new one (6850) for 130€. So you're right, I have a 703€ PC.
Yeah, I'd say it's about on par taking into account the advantages of a closed box.
Yeah, two different builds. Feb build is clearly more polished and had more effects while the E3 demo was much larger in scope. I'm hesitant to call out "DOWNGRADE" before the game is out since both demos were running on the same dev kits but the reveal was significantly more polished than the show floor demo from E3.
And yeah, I hate the gun positioning from E3. It seemed perfect in the reveal. It's even more jarring since this week I've been playing KZ2 and 3 back to back and those gun positions looked great. Watching the direct feed of Feb and E3 back to back it seems like they changed the material/models on a lot of the guns and widened the FoV slightly so that may be the cause why E3 looked different. Hopefully they fix it in the final game.
Riky
$MSFT
I've got both a X1 and a PS4 on order but I've just built my daughter a gaming PC, want it to last a few years and to give a good account of playing next gen console ports.
I ended up with this for £700
Amd 7870
Amd 8 core CPU 3.5ghz
16 gig of Ram.
I think it should have enough headroom to offset closed box optimisation, so will try the likes of Titanfall to find out.
I ended up with this for £700
Amd 7870
Amd 8 core CPU 3.5ghz
16 gig of Ram.
I think it should have enough headroom to offset closed box optimisation, so will try the likes of Titanfall to find out.
SneakyStephan
Banned
Special sauce and power of the cloud too.
This kind of shit is just as bad as console gamers spewing off about 5000 dollar PC set-ups.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
There were very real threads about secret sauce.
And just like with the whole 5000 dollar PC debate, its a lie and has now turned into to a means of trolling.
Poetic.Injustice
Member
Yeah like Xbox one's EDRAM secret sauce.
iamshadowlark
Banned
Yep. See I can do it too.
I would ask you to prove yourself but that always seems like such a hard thing for you to do.
EternalTruth
Member
I expect many of the multiplatform titles to be similar on both next gen consoles and PC this year (Assassins Creed 4, Watchdogs, Planetside 2) But come next year the PC will likely separate itself graphically from the consoles once again...
PC Gaming will always have its Advantages though:
- Downsampling/higher resolutions (2.5K, 4k)
- Better AA (TXAA)
- More Physx stuff (The Witcher 3 hair/wolf fur)
- Almost a complete elimination of load times (SSD prices continue to drop!)
- First platform to use VR (Oculus Rift in 2014!)
- Widest selection of control methods (Many many games support a controller as well as MK)
- More precise controls in FPS games using a mouse (my preference)
- Better backward compatibility (Steam,GOG)
- Lowest priced games if you are patient enough (at least 2 large Steam Sales each year, plus GMG preorder deals with up to 25% off new games at launch)
- Widest selection of of Free to Play games
- Proper home of RTS/MOBA games (Total War, Starcraft, Command and Conquer, DOTA, League of Legends, etc...)
- Widest selection of MMOs (WildStar, Everquest Next, Blizzard Titan, Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online)
PC Gaming will always have its Advantages though:
- Downsampling/higher resolutions (2.5K, 4k)
- Better AA (TXAA)
- More Physx stuff (The Witcher 3 hair/wolf fur)
- Almost a complete elimination of load times (SSD prices continue to drop!)
- First platform to use VR (Oculus Rift in 2014!)
- Widest selection of control methods (Many many games support a controller as well as MK)
- More precise controls in FPS games using a mouse (my preference)
- Better backward compatibility (Steam,GOG)
- Lowest priced games if you are patient enough (at least 2 large Steam Sales each year, plus GMG preorder deals with up to 25% off new games at launch)
- Widest selection of of Free to Play games
- Proper home of RTS/MOBA games (Total War, Starcraft, Command and Conquer, DOTA, League of Legends, etc...)
- Widest selection of MMOs (WildStar, Everquest Next, Blizzard Titan, Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online)
You don't have to believe me. As with any post on any forum, that's optional. But when a lot of titles release to market there will be more threads like this one. None of this would have been necessary had expectations been more realistic (and companies been more honest of course - all of them).
As you already know, all of these consoles can and will produce great visuals. Within the expectations of both reality and physics (and of course art - Nintendo was able to produce Mario galaxy on a 700mhz single core system for example).
When demos are running on the highest end PC parts and so much of e3 (and feb) was "in engine" and "approximated on PC" and various other misdirections it would be wise for everyone to take a step back and look past companies and allegiances and any other optimization magic talk and realize that you can't make approx 100w operate like 500w no matter how much embedded memory there is or how tuned for compute the APU is.
That's what the OP shows rather ubiquitously. Now you can indeed say that diminishing returns rears its head and that's perfectly fine. The 500w system doesn't look 5x better or what have you. But the credo when looking at reveals is that if it looks too good to be true there's a reason for it. All reveals. Not just specific companies. They're all engaged in the same type of misdirection across the board. The only exceptions in recent memory have been blizzard, Nintendo and infinity ward (I commend them on their honesty, despite the "new engine" crap).
Can Crusher
Banned
So what you are saying is that 3 years after the 360 launched, you bought a 600 pc that outperformed a console, only to later spend another 100, that wont even play the latest big budget games like bioshock and ac 3 maxed out at 1080p with good framerates....
Ok.
I have not gamed on my PC since my graphics card broke (AMD4870) and I only could afford a 5450.
but this thread got me thinking maybe if I upgrade my graphics card I can play games just as well or possible better the the PS4?
With my rig would I get as good performance or better then the PS4 ?
MY RIG
CPU: intel core i7 920@ 2.67ghz
RAM:6gb coarisair xms3
GPU: would either be a AMD7950 OR A NIVIDIA760 or anything better around £200-250
but this thread got me thinking maybe if I upgrade my graphics card I can play games just as well or possible better the the PS4?
With my rig would I get as good performance or better then the PS4 ?
MY RIG
CPU: intel core i7 920@ 2.67ghz
RAM:6gb coarisair xms3
GPU: would either be a AMD7950 OR A NIVIDIA760 or anything better around £200-250
yeah, you're part of the fortunate generation of PC buyers who've accidental set themselves up to spend a little more than half the price of next gen consoles to beat their performance, or an equivalent amount to eclipse them.
i'd advise waiting at least until AMD get their 9000 series cards out in october, though.
a little extra ram and a modest overclock wouldn't hurt, either.
The venom in this thread is amazing.
I'll throw my opinion in:
I own a PC.
I am going to buy a PS4. I will buy the majority of my games on PS4. PS4 will not be as powerful as my gaming rig, and I AM OK WITH THIS. PS4 offers me an optimized experience, with a streamlined and simple, easy to connect friends network. PS4 will more than likely have more players per title, than PC. Majority of my the games I play online will be on PS4.
I love visuals as much as the next guy, but I prefer a streamlined experience with friends in the vast majority of titles. Now when a show piece like Crysis 3 comes along, whaddup PC.
I'll throw my opinion in:
I own a PC.
I am going to buy a PS4. I will buy the majority of my games on PS4. PS4 will not be as powerful as my gaming rig, and I AM OK WITH THIS. PS4 offers me an optimized experience, with a streamlined and simple, easy to connect friends network. PS4 will more than likely have more players per title, than PC. Majority of my the games I play online will be on PS4.
I love visuals as much as the next guy, but I prefer a streamlined experience with friends in the vast majority of titles. Now when a show piece like Crysis 3 comes along, whaddup PC.
Thunder Monkey
Banned
No amount of optimizing, coding to the metal, or whatever else is going to make up for the very real power advantages PC's already have over the consoles releasing this fall and that increasing advantage as the years go on.
You're already talking power in the area of 3-4x theoretical floppage. CPU's that don't just run laps around those in the consoles but GPU's that have much higher bandwidth because they have dedicated VRAM. 6 gigs of VRAM and 8 gigs of total system memory alone give PC's a huge advantage over the PS4 in just how much is being pushed through in a given rendering frame.
Yes, consoles will increase the baseline of what is achieved they always do because there's more money in that market. But that in no way means they are at parity with PC's. As far away WiiU is to One, PS4 is to a gaming rig.
This will net some impressive advantages early on, and as GPU's are replaced with newer more powerful cards more still. That should be the end of the debate. We're not talking 200 gigalops to 300 anymore. We're talking 3-4 PS4's duct taped together.
You're already talking power in the area of 3-4x theoretical floppage. CPU's that don't just run laps around those in the consoles but GPU's that have much higher bandwidth because they have dedicated VRAM. 6 gigs of VRAM and 8 gigs of total system memory alone give PC's a huge advantage over the PS4 in just how much is being pushed through in a given rendering frame.
Yes, consoles will increase the baseline of what is achieved they always do because there's more money in that market. But that in no way means they are at parity with PC's. As far away WiiU is to One, PS4 is to a gaming rig.
This will net some impressive advantages early on, and as GPU's are replaced with newer more powerful cards more still. That should be the end of the debate. We're not talking 200 gigalops to 300 anymore. We're talking 3-4 PS4's duct taped together.
Barack Lesnar
Banned
This is all great. PCs could be 50x time more powerful, reaching Zetaflop territory (no idea what's after tera, just going with Zeta for now), but the problem is that there's no software created to take advantage of it. Almost all of the best looking PC games for this upcoming gen will be console ports. The current king Crysis 3 is a console port, it simply wouldn't have been developed if consoles weren't around. The only thing a Deca-Titan setup will do for you is play at a higher res with super sampling and whatever other IQ benefits that would provide. All assets, all art, all animations, lighting, physics, scope, will be built with X1 & PS4 specs in mind. Like I said, that's great that they're a million times more powerful. That's wonderful, but it just doesn't matter. It's a Ferrari locked in a suburb.
The PC version of crysis 3 is nearly a different game. That's why you need something as powerful as a 680 or titan to even approach maxing it out and maintaining high resolutions, framerates and IQ