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[miksar]

By the way, most of the arguments I saw so far in "3DS vs. Vita vs. smartphones" threads are basically the following:

1. I like Nintendo / I have a 3DS and I want it to be successful. I can interpret the current market situation in a way that makes my console of choice look better.
2. I like Sony / plan to buy Vita and I want it to be successful. I can interpret the current market situation in a way that makes my console of choice look better.
3. I don't care for handheld gaming / prefer smartphone games. I think most people today are no different.

But the truth is no one knows for sure what will happen. This is what's so great about this industry: it is so unpredictable, yet in retrospective it always makes perfect sense. It punishes arrogant hardware manufacturers and rewards those who try out something different. Too bad it doesn't work with game developers the same way : (

 

[DECK'ARD]

OP reads like someone trying to convince them self more than anything else.

Way too early too go into this much detail about something which the market is going to decide. The market has changed too much.

Only things we can really say about Vita is:

1) The price may be an issue
2) Missing Christmas in the West is not good at all
3) Shared PS3/360 development is very helpful
4) The line-up is strong, but 3rd parties are a worry and supposed heavy-hitter franchises don't always turn out that way when transposed to handhelds
5) Size and perceived fragility will work against it

If I had to place bets at the moment it will be a fairly niche product outside Japan.

 

[apana]

I think I prefer the 3DS now because of the price drop. All I want is cheap prices and high quality games.

 

[Boney]

I don't know, what I do know is that my smartphone is in my pocket so if I walk out the door I carry it with me at all times and I guess that's true for 99% of the smartphone owners. I'm not walking out the door thinking: "Oh shit, I got to take my 3DS with me as well".

But what if I use my handhelds at home? :O

And cheerleaders.

Yeah, definately.

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

Still to early to say one way or the other.
PSP had no problems beating the DS in the US until the DS was re-released as the DSlite.

PSP had no problems beating the DS in the US for its first six months (DS's months 5-10). The next 9 months they were pretty much neck-and-neck. THEN DS pulled away with the Lite.

 

[Vinci]

OP reads like someone trying to convince them self more than anything else.

Way too early too go into this much detail about something which the market is going to decide. The market has changed too much.

Only things we can really say about Vita is:

1) The price may be an issue
2) Missing Christmas in the West is not good at all
3) Shared PS3/360 development is very helpful
4) The line-up is strong, but 3rd parties are a worry and supposed heavy-hitter franchises don't always turn out that way when transposed to handhelds
5) Size and perceived fragility will work against it

If I had to place bets at the moment it will be a fairly niche product outside Japan.

I agree with everything other than the bolded. I think that could prove a double-edged sword.

 

[AbsoluteZero]

Yay! Another 3DS thread!

 

[Guevara]

I just want to hear more about Bioshock Vita. That, plus Uncharted: Golden Abyss, plus the new LBP is already more compelling to me as a consumer than the entire PSP library.

 

[fernoca]

You raise a good point about the possibility of Call of Duty on Vita being a straight port. That would dampen its significance for sure. But I think you're being purposefully aloof comparing Call of Duty on PC/PS3/360 to the other incarnations.

Well, wasn't comparing them directly, but more on the sales aspects. Though maybe I've missed the reports, but most of the sales-talk is around the 360/PS3 versions. While the PC/Wii/DS versions of the same games are usually in the "we've sold X million combined" kind of reports.

What I was saying (bad grammar and everything.. ) is that some expect a CoD Vita game to be this huge system seller (for sure, because it's Call of Duty); yet there are platforms on which CoD games has been and are released that while bring good/great sales; are not "the system sellers". People don't go crazy to update/buy a PC to play CoD. People weren't camping (in the millions) at midnight to get Black Ops on DS or Wii. Yet, somehow some expect people to sudenly go in millions to grab a Vita and a Vita version; just because it will be closer to a PS3 version.

And that's assuming it's close to the console version. For all we know, it could be a tactic-kind of CoD game using the touchpad/screen and it's connectivity to the PS3 been just an HD map.

 

[DECK'ARD]

I agree with everything other than the bolded. I think that could prove a double-edged sword.

Yeah, there is a possible downside.

It will be helpful if developers see it as a 3rd revenue stream, rather than the 3DS having to have specific teams and resources dedicated to it above others. Although if it pushes expectations of Vita games sky-high then that will kill off the appeal of other probably more handheld friendly games.

Shoving those games to download only doesn't help people's perception of the platform at retail.

 

[theBishop]

I just want to hear more about Bioshock Vita. That, plus Uncharted: Golden Abyss, plus the new LBP is already more compelling to me as a consumer than the entire PSP library.

I'll be surprised if we see Bioshock before 2013, but man I agree. That's a franchise I'd never expect to go Vita exclusive. I never thought Irrational were on great terms with Sony to begin with.

 

[daoster]

I don't know, what I do know is that my smartphone is in my pocket so if I walk out the door I carry it with me at all times and I guess that's true for 99% of the smartphone owners. I'm not walking out the door thinking: "Oh shit, I got to take my 3DS with me as well".

Can I use a book analogy then?

I can read a real book at home, I can read it via software on my smartphone on the go...

And yet, here we are, the Kindle is still a success, as is the Nook Color!

 

[[Nintex]]

But what if I use my handhelds at home? :O

Yep you can use them at home but your phone is still in your pocket. So lets take this scenario further.

You come home after a day of work/school whatever and you sit down on the couch. Now you could 'walk' upstairs and get your 3DS from the room it is stored in or you could reach for your pocket and grab your smartphone to mess around with. For many people, especially those in the 'brain training' camp it's going to be the latter.

Spoiler

I'm going to release a multi-touch watch since everyone has a watch and make triillions and kill apple muhahahaha

Can I use a book analogy then?

I can read a real book at home, I can read it via software on my smartphone on the go...

And yet, here we are, the Kindle is still a success, as is the Nook Color!

I'm in Europe so I don't know much about this Kindle thing but wasn't it given away for free? Also imagine if the Kindle had like 3 books worth reading, who's going to use it then? A large part of it's succes comes from the library it offers I assume.

 

[Sadist]

alright starting to get bored by these threads

the fuck is going on

Same

 

[theBishop]

Well, wasn't comparing them directly, but more on the sales aspects. Though maybe I've missed the reports, but most of the sales-talk is around the 360/PS3 versions. While the PC/Wii/DS versions of the same games are usually in the "we've sold X million combined" kind of reports.

But it's a pointless comparison because they're just not the same game. Would you compare the sales of Metal Gear Solid Touch to MGS4? We don't know what Call of Duty on Vita will be yet, but if it delivers the core Call of Duty gameplay on a handheld, it's unprecedented.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Yea but at the same time... the ds and probably the 3ds makes ports to consoles impossible.

which pretty much locks them out of the rest of the world.

So you're telling me on top of generationally larger budgets and resources needed, Japanese devs can spend even more porting the games so they can actually sell outside Japan? It's genius!

3DS ports wouldn't be impossible either. They'll make good ports to iOS platforms, the real future of gaming!

 

[Vinci]

Yeah, there is a possible downside.

It will be helpful if developers see it as a 3rd revenue stream, rather than the 3DS having to have specific teams and resources dedicated to it above others. Although if it pushes expectations of Vita games sky-high then that will kill off the appeal of other probably more handheld friendly games.

Yeah. Basically, at this point, I'm considering that a downside for the system. I truly expect 3rd parties to take the easiest road when it comes to content for it, and I doubt people will choose the Vita version over the console version.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Right but the guy in the booth next to him quietly staring at something in his lap with a cup of tea and a scone on the table is going to playing the exact same game.

That is totally how guys play COD online with their friends.... Quietly, while sipping tea.

 

[Krakatoa]

The only way IMO for either of these Handhelds to succeed is to allow cross Handheld gaming.

Sony and Nintendo get chatting.

 

[PigSpeakers]

I think I'm going to wait for the Vita to be out before I make any predictions about who is going to be a sales leader or anything like that. 3DS hasn't been doing too well with it's advertising (I can only show so many people, Nintendo!), but it looks like that may change. Right now I don't really know anyone (personally) excited for Vita other than myself. If Sony can do a good job of advertising it (and we know how poorly Sony tends to advertise things a lot of the time) and helping to spread it with maybe demo units or representatives with the unit (which I think Nintendo did at points), then I think it will definitely do well. It certainly has a lot of promising features and capabilities.

By the way, do we know the battery life on this yet? The 5 hours on 3DS was never a problem to me so I'm not too concerned, but I know that's a huge problem for a lot of people.

 

[Fredrik]

They're both "dead on arrival" for the casual gamers, which won't ever buy portable touch games for more than a few dollars ever again because of smartphones.

And 99% of all hardcore gamers will keep playing on the their 360's and PS3's on their huge flat screen TV and won't ever bother touching low res games without graphical filters and such shown on a machine with tiny screen and 3 hour battery life.

And the third party developers that has games on hold waiting for the consoles to sell will lose big time since their games will look like 1st gen launch games when they're finally released, while Nintendo and Sony will be on their 2nd gen games making everything else look ridiculously dated, as álways on their own consoles.

I think they could do okay anyway though, simply because of the 1st party games. But they'll sell a fraction of what their predecessors did.

And all of you should buy both, of course. They're not that expensive, really. Think about it.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

So you're telling me on top of generationally larger budgets and resources needed, Japanese devs can spend even more porting the games so they can actually sell outside Japan? It's genius!

3DS ports wouldn't be impossible either. They'll make good ports to iOS platforms, the real future of gaming!

Um a bigger palette does not force you to use all colors at once. It just means you can use 34 different reds if you want to.

Vita does everything 3ds does. And alot of japanese games for the japanese handheld market are high budget fairs. You just have to look at squares output. These games if they where made on vita could be ported to consoles. and thus have success in the west.

 

[Tom Penny]

With phones nowadays handheld gaming devices are obsolete and not worth the money and people know it. It's a lost cause going forward.

 

[commish]

Let me ask you then: Would your list of 20 great DS games include 'Brain Age' and 'Nintendogs'?

I never tried Nintendogs, and Brainage would not, unfortunately, make my list.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Yeah. Basically, at this point, I'm considering that a downside for the system. I truly expect 3rd parties to take the easiest road when it comes to content for it, and I doubt people will choose the Vita version over the console version.

Yeah, I'd agree that is probably how it will go as well.

There will be a honeymoon period where people look to get titles such as Uncharted to show off the system, similar to what happened with GTA. But when things settle down people will likely revert to playing big production games in the best environment for them. Big TV, surround sound etc. because that is what PS3 has already conditioned them to like.

People choose a device for its uniqueness above all else, the most compelling reason to buy anything is because you can't get it anywhere else. 3DS has the unique thing going on about it, it just needs the content to back it up. Vita is more of a worry in that regard, much the same problem the PSP faced.

It's shame the 3G version is basically DOA in the West, because that would give it a much more unique angle. I can see the whole system doing much better in Japan, and it struggling to find its place in the market in the West.

 

[I NEED SCISSORS]

It's not outside the realm of possibility that the 3DS could do badly. Nintendo have made stinkers before - remember the Virtual Boy, N64 and GameCube. We'll just have to wait and see if the price cut works.

 

[TheNatural]

The typical 'smartphones have killed handheld gaming omg!' responses. At least back it up with facts. If smartphones have killed it, why did the DS family of systems sell over half a MILLION last month?

Smartphones haven't killed shit, and I'm surprised so many short minded people have bought into this sensationalist crap.

 

[Fredrik]

Vita does everything 3ds does.

Besides dual screen, pen input and AAA Nintendo games.
(Which btw is incredibly important because it will instantly set the 3DS apart from the ever so popular smartphones, at least for now.)

 

[theBishop]

It's not outside the realm of possibility that the 3DS could do badly. Nintendo have made stinkers before - remember the Virtual Boy, N64 and GameCube. We'll just have to wait and see if the price cut works.

I don't understand how a Nintendo fan could consider N64 a "Stinker" and not the Wii. It was the last Nintendo platform that got big budget (for the time) new franchises as well as classic updates.

 

[DECK'ARD]

It's not outside the realm of possibility that the 3DS could do badly. Nintendo have made stinkers before - remember the Virtual Boy, N64 and GameCube. We'll just have to wait and see if the price cut works.

I'd be very surprised if Mario Kart doesn't make it explode.

That seems at the height of its powers at the moment, I know lots of people wanting to get one for just that. The timing of the price drop has been quite clever in that regard, as a few of them are going to get it earlier than they said they would rather than waiting for MK.

 

[fernoca]

But it's a pointless comparison because they're just not the same game. Would you compare the sales of Metal Gear Solid Touch to MGS4? We don't know what Call of Duty on Vita will be yet, but if it delivers the core Call of Duty gameplay on a handheld, it's unprecedented.

Well, the Wii versions technically are (except the zombie-modes in the Treyarch games); but I was comparing sales more in a broad term.

Is like GTA, people thought that having the GTA name alone could help...yet the DS game was ignored. People thought that having a similar version the consoles would be great. The 'Stories-PSP' games did quite well, but didn't helped a lot to the PSP in terms of life and support (outside Japan at least).

Which is what I said and was wondering. For all we know, a possible direct port of Black Ops 2 to the Vita might do great; but there's no guarantee or even evidence that it alone would help the Vita. Because it seems people so far has shown more interest on playing the CoD games on PS3 and 360..than on any other platform. Heck we don't know if CoD will be as successful on the next wave of system.

It would be cool if it does well, but the expectations of it doing well are just on it been a direct port and on brand name. And even if it does well, we don't know if it will be key for the Vita's support.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

Besides dual screen, pen input and AAA Nintendo games.
(Which btw is incredibly important because it will instantly set the 3DS apart from the ever so popular smartphones, at least for now.)

im talking about the options 3rd party has.

i dont give a fuck about nintendo. And dual screen sucks.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

Lord, please make it stop.

 

[Sadist]

In a few years this thread will pop up and I'll laugh.

Btw, is it me or is everyone making these threads... scared? I've been reading OP's and several comments but asside a few systemwars comments, I get the feeling GAF is feeling threatened by all the Apple splooging and doom talk regarding dedicated gaming portables. Hence all the threads.

im talking about the options 3rd party has.

i dont give a fuck about nintendo. And dual screen sucks.

The Beast finally shows his true shadow

 

[Neo C.]

There's only one thing I'm pretty sure about this new generation: Both Sony and Nintendo have a much more difficulty to sell hardware and software than in the former generation. Smartphones eat some shares, but they aren't the main problem - the current economy crisis and the strong Yen are. Handhelds make their money mainly in three market (EU, US, Jp), and all three are hitting rock bottom. Very unlikely that China and other upcoming markets can fill in, because those places aren't used to pay lots of money for gaming.

 

[Pimpbaa]

I just hope it does well enough to get good western developer support.

 

[lunchwithyuzo]

Um a bigger palette does not force you to use all colors at once. It just means you can use 34 different reds if you want to.

Vita does everything 3ds does. And alot of japanese games for the japanese handheld market are high budget fairs. You just have to look at squares output. These games if they where made on vita could be ported to consoles. and thus have success in the west.

So lower budget Japanese games ported from Vita will compare favorably to western games on consoles and ensure huge success in the west?

Besides, it's not like 3DS games couldn't be ported to consoles either. Look what Kojima Productions is doing for Peace Walker. RE Revelations could make a pretty decent port up. Porting up is always easier than porting down, and if you're suggesting Japanese devs artificially limit their budgets anyway, then what's the value of Vita over 3DS really?

And yes, lets look at SE's high budgets. For 3DS class hardware you've got stuff like Type-0 and Kingdom Hearts BBS, for Vita class hardware you've got FFXIII and Versus. Which do you think makes more sense for Japan?

 

[Thoraxes]

Lord, please make it stop.

I was clicking through my tabs and couldn't figure out if this was the $250 Vita is doomed thread, 3DS Price Drop thread, Vita Run for Money thread, 3DS Free Games thread, Media Create Sales thread, or the Blame Nintendo not Apple thread.

 

[Deleted member 22576]

That is totally how guys play COD online with their friends.... Quietly, while sipping tea.

No, thats what it looks like when someone plays a portable game in public. It doesn't matter what the game is. I get rowdy at LAN parties but I'm not gonna start shouting on the bus playing DS.

 

[DR2K]

They're both going to choke and die. 3DS will be elevated to Gamecube states because of Mario and Pokemon. PSVita will be in between PSP and PSPgo. Of course they'll both do amazingly well in Japan, but the rest of the world is over portables that aren't smart phones.

 

[ItWasMeantToBe19]

We're only 1.5 years removed from the DS having the greatest year for hardware sales in gaming history in America, dedicated handheld systems are dead. Just like how consoles died when the PS3 did poorly.

 

[Tom Penny]

We're only 1.5 years removed from the DS having the greatest year for hardware sales in gaming history in America, dedicated handheld systems are dead. Just like how consoles died when the PS3 did poorly.

Yeah. I mean a collapse of the economy and pretty much a +100 price point will surely have sales surging.

 

[MoogPaul]

Revenge Thread?

 

[zoukka]

Just like how consoles died when the PS3 did poorly.

No we all just thought PS3 died bro.

 

[richiek]

It's not outside the realm of possibility that the 3DS could do badly. Nintendo have made stinkers before - remember the Virtual Boy, N64 and GameCube. We'll just have to wait and see if the price cut works.

LOL. The N64 and GC cannot even be remotely compared to the Virtual Boy.

 

[Vinci]

I never tried Nintendogs, and Brainage would not, unfortunately, make my list.

Then it's safe to argue that your tastes don't coincide with mass consumers'. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, so long as you're aware of it.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

No, thats what it looks like when someone plays a portable game in public. It doesn't matter what the game is. I get rowdy at LAN parties but I'm not gonna start shouting on the bus playing DS.

It matters what game it is because that is why I posted what I did.

 

[Fredrik]

im talking about the options 3rd party has.

i dont give a fuck about nintendo. And dual screen sucks.

YOU may not big a fuck, but the bigger the difference is the more it will sell. People don't want to buy the same game twice. Especially if it's stripped down. On the 3DS the third party devs will have the option to make a version with dual screen and pen control, which will instantly set that version apart from the better console version and cheaper mobile phones version.

 

[Shadow of the BEAST]

So lower budget Japanese games ported from Vita will compare favorably to western games on consoles and ensure huge success in the west?

Besides, it's not like 3DS games couldn't be ported to consoles either. Look what Kojima Productions is doing for Peace Walker. RE Revelations could make a pretty decent port up. Porting up is always easier than porting down, and if you're suggesting Japanese devs artificially limit their budgets anyway, then what's the value of Vita over 3DS really?

And yes, lets look at SE's high budgets. For 3DS class hardware you've got stuff like Type-0 and Kingdom Hearts BBS, for Vita class hardware you've got FFXIII and Versus. Which do you think makes more sense for Japan?

No lower budget games will exactly the same. but higher budget japanese games on vita can be ported to ps360 and will be closer to nextgen console.. 3ds like ds will be two generations behind just like ds. Consoles is where the money is in the west, there is a reason why atlus two best selling games are on ps360 and not on handheld.

finally shows his true shadow

Yea my interest isnt nintendo. Going from 90% japanese games to 10% in one generation tends to make one to react. Japan has always had the best technical developers. And seeing the best coders, artists, designers in the world working on sub psone games is saddening.

 

[Sadist]

Yea my interest isnt nintendo. Going from 90% japanese games to 10% in one generation tends to make one to react. Japan has always had the best technical developers. And seeing the best coders, artists, designers in the world working on sub psone games is saddening.

... what