Support NeoGAF

[Manmademan]

Magus threw a sun at Warlock, a sun! And why? Because he ran away from home.

sure, he can throw suns like baseballs, but could he take a quadrillion space bugs?

 

[Slayven]

sure, he can throw suns like baseballs, but could he take a quadrillion space bugs?

He would transmode them and eat them

 

[BreezyLimbo]

You're forgetting that the warp is 40k's paranormal reality. Mahvel got one of that too. Either characters belong to one or the other. You're also assuming that the paranormal entities in mahvel would even allow the chaos gods to come over.

This topic is dealing with the scenario of 40k vs. Marvel, as in the two universes already collided. And once the Warp touches Marvels Universe, then the Warp is there forever in some shape or form(Yes, the Warp is both a physical, and metaphysical thing that can spread).

And yes, franklin could close the warp.

If he had precognition that he was about to be invaded by a universe, he could probably try to stop it. But once the Warp is in Marvels universe, Franklins head would go *pop* just like everyone else who's tried to form a connection to it without protection.

Not only that, you can't really get rid of the Chaos Gods unless you take extreme measures, when it comes to reality shifting. Tzeentch strives off Change, Slaanesh feeds off Desire, Khorne lives off violence, and Nurgle encompasses Death and Disease. The only way you can destroy them, is to destroy these 4 aspects from every sentient being in the universe. Only then will they fade away.

Even then you got shit like the Living Tribunal and the infinity gauntlet, that can rewrite the rules of reality as they see fit.

The Warp houses the creation of all reality. The Chaos Gods play with it. When you try to subjugate the Warp without understanding it, it will control you, reality bending or not.

In 40k there is no infinity gauntlet, so once the warp is in place, yeah, tough cookie. Then again, 40k also has no reality warpers, only very high level mages.
40k has no omnipotents.

Tzeentch is probably the only omnipotent one. The Emperor has some form of omnipotence, but he is dying. Through Chaos there is warping of reality, but nothing like 'Oh open this door and there's a funhouse now'. It's more subtle. And theres more than just mages.

40k also has no reliable way to travel to the past.

Because that's just silly.

You need to re-read your 40k fluff. Tzeentch doesn't intend to win, since then he couldn't plot anymore.

I know. However, Tzeentch simply intends to have major dominion over the Warp, and all his plans lead to this, however he also has plans in place so he can fail and continue the eternal game. For him it's simply a cycle of change.

 

[Manmademan]

He would transmode them and eat them

Right you are- which is why the "overwhelm them with meat shields" tactic doesn't work against the phalanx or technarchy.

To the phalanx, a quadrillion space bugs just means a quadrillion more phalanx.

To the technarchy, it's just dinner.

Not only that, you can't really get rid of the Chaos Gods unless you take extreme measures, when it comes to reality shifting. Tzeentch strives off Change, Slaanesh feeds off Desire, Khorne lives off violence, and Nurgle encompasses Death and Disease. The only way you can destroy them, is to destroy these 4 aspects from every sentient being in the universe. Only then will they fade away.

Death and Chaos are sentient concepts in the MU, and can simply remove themselves from the equation. Chaos gods with no chaos don't sound very effective. A God that encompasses death and disease when death chooses not to manifest itself isn't all that effective.

There's also the ultimate nullifier on top of that, which does exactly what it says it does- eliminates things entirely, from broad concepts to entire timelines, erasing them as if they had never been created. As it's obliterated EVERYTHING in the MU before, it has no known limitations. The warp is toast.

 

[Coriolanus]

Magus threw a sun at Warlock, a sun! And why? Because he ran away from home.

real talk
Magus exists solely to remind everyone that, as bitchmode as Namor may get, he aint no Magus.

This topic is dealing with the scenario of 40k vs. Marvel, as in the two universes already collided. And once the Warp touches Marvels Universe, then the Warp is there forever in some shape or form(Yes, the Warp is both a physical, and metaphysical thing that can spread).

Yes, and if both universes collide, then the four facets of chaos present in 40k would have to deal with Lord Chaos, who, unlike 40k, is an unified concept who's also bros with Order. The fuck will khorne do to that? Hit it with the pointy end?

And again, the only reason the warp is anywhere in 40k forever is because Gw had the sense to never introduce players that can rewrite the rules of the universe as they see fit. That is not the case with mahvel.

But sure, someone could fuck franklin over if he's still a child. Happened before. Also the reason he hasnt been allowed to age for the last 60 years.


..wait, did you just say that the warp would fuck over the likes of the living tribunal?

And no, tzeentch aint omnipotent. At best, omniscient.

 

[SixMachine]

it doesn't matter if it's corrupting or not, a dimension of pure psionic energy that telepaths are all intimately familiar with ALREADY EXISTS.

I posted the shadow king quote to show you that everything sentient, not just psychics are connected to it, which you claimed wasn't possible as it would be "too messy."

The plane itself is fluid, how it appears depends on who is in it. If it's someone like Xavier it's relatively stable, if it's someone like Shadow King it's a nightmare realm. It's totally under the control of the telepath.

and speaking of which, there is a SEPARATE world of dreams/nightmare realm in addition to the astral plane, which is controlled by beings like Nightmare, D'spayre, and the Dweller in Darkness.





These dimensions are rather common, and you can find smaller ones run by entities like the Dreamqueen.

I like both properties and I started WH40k with the Dawn of War games, so I'm no pro that has been playing the table top for decades, but it's obvious enough that there is a huge, I mean really huge, distinction between the tone and intensity of the Warp compared to the astral plane. There is such a thing as "too messy" and the WH40K universe is just that. If the warp was in marvel universe, it would be the denizens of Earth will be acting straight out of Crossed, which the Dark Eldar and Chaos like to do to people in their leisure time. I'm not arguing for the number of of realms, I don't care bout the dream or nightmare realm. I'm saying the corruption is the biggest difference and one of the main reasons for how the universe of WH40k is. If you removed the property of the warp that influences most of the world building and effects the individuals in it, it wouldn't be the same and the universe for WH40k wouldn't be the same. If the astral plane or whatever plane you wanted acted like the warp, you obviously have a different marvel universe on your hand. It's like saying that they are using Mephisto's realm as their astral plane to connect everyone, except Mephisto is much bigger dick than he normally is, and he really wants everyone's soul.

 

[More_Badass]

I usually really enjoy these kinds of threads, but man, this discussion is getting boring

If you took the super OP abstract Marvel beings out of the equation, would it be a fairer fight? Because every pro-Marvel post being "But they have sentient concepts that can nullify everything and anything" isn't much of a discussion or a fun Versus thread IMO

 

[Manmademan]

I like both properties and I started WH40k with the Dawn of War games, so I'm no pro that has been playing the table top for decades, but it's obvious enough that there is a huge, I mean really huge, distinction between the tone and intensity of the Warp compared to the astral plane. There is such a thing as "too messy" and the WH40K universe is just that. If the warp was in marvel universe, it would be the denizens of Earth will be acting straight out of Crossed, which the Dark Eldar and Chaos like to do to people in their leisure time. I'm not arguing for the number of of realms, I don't care bout the dream or nightmare realm. I'm saying the corruption is the biggest difference and one of the main reasons for how the universe of WH40k is. If you removed the property of the warp that influences most of the world building and effects the individuals in it, it wouldn't be the same and the universe for WH40k wouldn't be the same. If the astral plane or whatever plane you wanted acted like the warp, you obviously have a different marvel universe on your hand. It's like saying that they are using Mephisto's realm as their astral plane to connect everyone, except Mephisto is much bigger dick than he normally is, and he really wants everyone's soul.

The point is that these realms already exist, but are easily contained. Everyone is attached to the astral plane, everyone is attached to the nightmare realm. There are a dozen major demons all claiming to be Satan that would hijack the world if they could (Again, refer to Inferno) they're simply not a threat to the MU because of other powers that exist to keep them in check.

drop the warp into the MU and no one would notice- and if it became a problem, universe busting weapons and entities exist that could simply seal it off or wipe it out- which is sort of why the abstracts exist in the first place.

I usually really enjoy these kinds of threads, but man, this discussion is getting boring

If you took the super OP abstract Marvel beings out of the equation, would it be a fairer fight? Because every pro-Marvel post being "But they have sentient concepts that can nullify everything and anything" isn't much of a discussion or a fun Versus thread IMO

Its really only useful to bring it up when people start referring to chaos gods or the warp as an OP trump card of some sort. Neither is really anywhere on the radar of the higher powers. Ignoring those, the interstellar races outside of marvel earth (i.e. no superheroes needed) absolutely wipe the floor with 40K.

There is no way around the Phalanx, and even the Kree or Shi'ar empires are just too much to deal with. impossibly vast with tech so advanced it may as well be magic. And strontians.

 

[Coriolanus]

Sure, take abstract concepts, reality warpers and chaos gods out of the equation.

Meet the phalanx.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Death and Chaos are sentient concepts in the MU, and can simply remove themselves from the equation. Chaos gods with no chaos don't sound very effective. A God that encompasses death and disease when death chooses not to manifest itself isn't all that effective.

There's also the ultimate nullifier on top of that, which does exactly what it says it does- eliminates things entirely, from broad concepts to entire timelines, erasing them as if they had never been created. As it's obliterated EVERYTHING in the MU before, it has no known limitations. The warp is toast.

The Chaos gods are named so because they follow no order-They fight each other, and at times will team up to fight something they find threatening. As for Death, if MU's death decided not to show up, than Nurgle would feast on disease. Suddenly the Marvel universe, all the mortal beings would become infested with disease, and because no death would come to them, they would simply be walking mustard bombs. Nurgle feeds of Disease, not only Death.

real talk
Yes, and if both universes collide, then the four facets of chaos present in 40k would have to deal with Lord Chaos, who, unlike 40k, is an unified concept who's also bros with Order. The fuck will khorne do to that? Hit it with the pointy end?

Like I mentioned above, they are Chaos in name. They are named Chaos not because there is no control, but because within the 4 aspects of the Gods, there is no order between their powers. Khorne drives people to berserk. (Wolverine would probably be taken under him the second Khorne entered his reality, he would truly be one of the greatest Berserkers Khorne ever saw). Tzeentch enjoys Change and Knowledge. Reed Richards, in his egotistic nature, would seek out Tzeentch so he can learn more. And in this, Tzeentch would change Reeds to how he sees fits, physically and mentally. Slaanesh is all that you desire, and if you desire for his death, then he has you in his grasps. And Nurgle? Like I mentioned, Disease and Death. Him and the MU Death would probably be buddies. Nurgle already has captive an immortal Eldar, who he inflicts upon new diseases constantly, which she has to endure undyingly.

And again, the only reason the warp is anywhere in 40k forever is because Gw had the sense to never introduce players that can rewrite the rules of the universe as they see fit. That is not the case with mahvel.

Well, what's the fun in discussion if you're going to retreat to 'Well they can write that a big pencil erased them!' It's stifling discussion.

But sure, someone could fuck franklin over if he's still a child. Happened before. Also the reason he hasnt been allowed to age for the last 60 years.

If you try to interact with the Warp in anyway, it'll pop your head. Even if you're the most trained psychic or reality bender in the universe, it'll pop your head. There's a reason why all the Psykers, even the greatest, who interact with the warp are nothing but unmoving husks.

..wait, did you just say that the warp would fuck over the likes of the living tribunal?

Yes. The Living Tribunal certainly has dominion over the Marvel Universe, and unless he decides to stifle all emotions and choice from reality, the Chaos Gods will co-exist.

And no, tzeentch aint omnipotent. At best, omniscient.

He likes to watch.

 

[SixMachine]

The point is that these realms already exist, but are easily contained. Everyone is attached to the astral plane, everyone is attached to the nightmare realm. There are a dozen major demons all claiming to be Satan that would hijack the world if they could (Again, refer to Inferno) they're simply not a threat to the MU because of other powers that exist to keep them in check.

drop the warp into the MU and no one would notice- and if it became a problem, universe busting weapons and entities exist that could simply seal it off or wipe it out- which is sort of why the abstracts exist in the first place.



Its really only useful to bring it up when people start referring to chaos gods or the warp as an OP trump card of some sort. Neither is really anywhere on the radar of the higher powers. Ignoring those, the interstellar races outside of marvel earth (i.e. no superheroes needed) absolutely wipe the floor with 40K.

There is no way around the Phalanx, and even the Kree or Shi'ar empires are just too much to deal with. impossibly vast with tech so advanced it may as well be magic. And strontians.

I'm not arguing for the warp as a trump card at all, and I haven't even stated it anywhere in my posts, because point is moot when you have people like Frankling Richards playing with pocket universes. I have stated that Marvel universe (currently) does not have a pervasive corrupting dimension 24/7. If anyone with any kind of mental power, such, they would need to connect to it, which obviously when you combine the mechanics of two universes they don't match up, since it's not explained what mechanism psychics in Marvel even use. But psykers are basically defined by being close to the warp. And just sealing off the entry to the warp does not protect you from it's influence because just being near or fighting with the forces of Chaos have corrupted people. The Chaos gods are like the Endless in DC, they are aspects of what they represent, so in WH40K universe you just can't escape it. In fact the Imperium of Man have people such as the Inquisition and Sisters of Battle purge people who have come in contact with the forces of Chaos and the warp, and they usually go ham on a whole planet even if they just suspect one person of being in contact. The world building of WH40K basically requires the warp, since they need it to travel and to power themselves (psykers are sacrificed constantly for the Emperor). Marvel obviously does not require it since the way the mechanics of the two universes work are entirely different. That why the realms you mentioned are not like the warp. If a chaos army landed on Marvel Earth, there would be a big shitstorm just by being in proximity of the forces, since many people will be driven insane. And at that point you just don't close some portal, the infected people would need to be purged. Of course if Marvel did do a crossover story, they can just reverse time or some other thing to negate it.

 

[Manmademan]

The Chaos gods are named so because they follow no order-They fight each other, and at times will team up to fight something they find threatening.

Chaos removes itself from the equation, and suddenly only order exists. Your chaos gods are now powerless. It's not a god OF chaos, it's literally the concept itself given a will.

As for Death, if MU's death decided not to show up, than Nurgle would feast on disease. Suddenly the Marvel universe, all the mortal beings would become infested with disease, and because no death would come to them, they would simply be walking mustard bombs. Nurgle feeds of Disease, not only Death.

Laughable. Assuming you're fighting something vulnerable to disease (anything at or above the level of an asgardian god generally is not), there are scads or reality warpers that can simply will "disease" into nonexistence. This is the silver surfer:

Thousands of beings cured at a molecular level, by willing disease out of existence. Something like galactus is not only infinitely more powerful, but can create life at will.

Like I mentioned above, they are Chaos in name. They are named Chaos not because there is no control, but because within the 4 aspects of the Gods, there is no order between their powers. Khorne drives people to berserk. (Wolverine would probably be taken under him the second Khorne entered his reality, he would truly be one of the greatest Berserkers Khorne ever saw). Tzeentch enjoys Change and Knowledge. Reed Richards, in his egotistic nature, would seek out Tzeentch so he can learn more. And in this, Tzeentch would change Reeds to how he sees fits, physically and mentally. Slaanesh is all that you desire, and if you desire for his death, then he has you in his grasps. And Nurgle? Like I mentioned, Disease and Death. Him and the MU Death would probably be buddies. Nurgle already has captive an immortal Eldar, who he inflicts upon new diseases constantly, which she has to endure undyingly.

Since there is "no order" amongst their powers, if chaos removes itself and only order remains, they are rendered powerless. Chaos and Order prefer to exist in balance, but if it's a question of survival, then Chaos can simply cease to exist. Or someone shoots it with the nullifier which accomplishes the same thing. No more chaos, only order- your gods are powerless.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Chaos removes itself from the equation, and suddenly only order exists. Your chaos gods are now powerless. It's not a god OF chaos, it's literally the concept itself given a will.

....This is insanity. The only reason the Chaos Gods haven't annihilated everything quickly is because they're busy fighting each other. Suddenly all 4 Gods have to follow Order? And work together? All you're doing is making them work together, and that's even worse for the MU universe.

Laughable. Assuming you're fighting something vulnerable to disease (anything at or above the level of an asgardian god generally is not), there are scads or reality warpers that can simply will "disease" into nonexistence. This is the silver surfer:

Thousands of beings cured at a molecular level, by willing disease out of existence. Something like galactus is not only infinitely more powerful, but can create life at will.

Yes, Silver Surfer touches 'thousands'. Galactus can probably touch billions. They can cure the disease because they know exactly what it is. Like I said, Nurgle likes to experiment new diseases.

Also, I forgot to mention, in the 40k universe, there are trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions of sentient beings that feel the touch of Nurgle. Not just thousands or billions. (It is made a bullet point of how many planets and galaxies and clusters have been colonized by man, not only that but the Tyranid are coming from a far, far, far portion of the universe, running away from something even they fear. The W40K universe is probably bigger than MU's in sheer number of beings.)

Since there is "no order" amongst their powers, if chaos removes itself and only order remains, they are rendered powerless. Chaos and Order prefer to exist in balance, but if it's a question of survival, then Chaos can simply cease to exist. Or someone shoots it with the nullifier which accomplishes the same thing. No more chaos, only order- your gods are powerless.

Again, the Chaos Gods are only Chaos by name. Tzeentch isn't powered by Chaos, but by Knowledge, and Change. Slaanesh isn't chaotic-He lives off the desires and lust of beings. Khorne off violence.(Khorne is probably the only one who would be affected by this, but only momentarily, until his brethren wage war.) Nurgle, Disease and Death.

Four different Aspects that fight over control of the Warp, which is what created the universe. You remove their chaotic nature, and you get 4 Aspects with a very clear plan on what to do in order to conquer the universe and bend it to their wills.You are talking about Chaos as a concept-and the Chaos Gods are far more than a concept.

 

[Manmademan]

I'm not arguing for the warp as a trump card at all, and I haven't even stated it anywhere in my posts, because point is moot when you have people like Frankling Richards playing with pocket universes. I have stated that Marvel universe (currently) does not have a pervasive corrupting dimension 24/7.

and you would be wrong-

http://www.comicvine.com/cancerverse/4015-56220/

The Many-Angled Ones are a race of primordial cosmic entities that inhabit the spaces between realities, legend has it that they are "memory-echoes" of the nightmares that plagued the first Daemons. The Many-Angled Ones are also the first species in both recorded and unrecorded history to actually grow rather than come into existence at a predetermined size and are one of the few races that have no growth limit.

Their name is derived from the methods they use to fill and consume the realities they manage to enter and take control of, which requires that they readjust the so-called etheric angles of harmony and rewrite the base code of reality to suit their needs. By doing this, they can spread whatever portions of their immense multi-dimensional bodies that are capable of wedging into a three to four dimensional plane of existence without accidentally destroying it.

Once they have made themselves comfortable they slowly but surely begin to consume the conquered reality and fill it with life pollution, which causes all life within that reality to grow unchecked until finally Life becomes like a deathless, sentient Cancer-like Eldritch Abomination. So far only the four Masters and a few of the lesser Many-Angled Ones have been named and out of all their names, only one is clearly recognizable, even if the form he takes in The Cancerverse is not:

The many angled ones and the cancerverse are most certainly a thing. They are for the most part held in check and not a threat to the majority of the MU.

If anyone with any kind of mental power, such, they would need to connect to it, which obviously when you combine the mechanics of two universes they don't match up, since it's not explained what mechanism psychics in Marvel even use.

Marvel psychics generally draw their power from the astral plane, or from the natural mental energy of other living things around them. It's not corruptive UNLESS someone like shadow king intentionally makes it so. Since they don't need the warp, it's not an issue for the MU since their power comes from elsewhere.

But psykers are basically defined by being close to the warp. And just sealing off the entry to the warp does not protect you from it's influence because just being near or fighting with the forces of Chaos have corrupted people.

Chaos magic, and chaos itself exists in the MU as a sentient being. Chaos can be easily controlled and manipulated in a way that 40K does not have the ability to do. Wanda is explicitly a nexus for Chaos energy and tremendously powerful without fear of corruption.

"no more imperium of man."

 

[BreezyLimbo]

and you would be wrong-

http://www.comicvine.com/cancerverse/4015-56220/



The many angled ones and the cancerverse are most certainly a thing. They are for the most part held in check and not a threat to the majority of the MU.

Again-

Is there anyone in the Marvel Universe who wants change? Who seeks Knowledge? Tzeentch exists. You do not remove him, you do not stop him, you do not wish him away. As long as people want change, he exists, and He will lead them to Him.

Is there war? Is there violence? Khorne exists.

Is there disease? Is there death? Nurgle exists.

Is there desire? Is there lust? Slaanesh exists.

The second the 40k universe touches the MU universe, than they(The Chaos Gods) become one, and one cannot exist without the other.

To put it simply, Tzeentch will become the Aspect of Change, Khorne becomes the Aspect of Violence, Nurgle the Aspect of Death and Decay, Slaanesh the Aspect of Desires, within the Marvel universe. They will exist within the MU, and if you nullify them, if you try to wish them away, then Violence, Change, Desire, and Death will cease to exist. Simple as that.

 

[SixMachine]

and you would be wrong-

http://www.comicvine.com/cancerverse/4015-56220/



The many angled ones and the cancerverse are most certainly a thing. They are for the most part held in check and not a threat to the majority of the MU.



Marvel psychics generally draw their power from the astral plane, or from the natural mental energy of other living things around them. It's not corruptive UNLESS someone like shadow king intentionally makes it so. Since they don't need the warp, it's not an issue for the MU since their power comes from elsewhere.



Chaos magic, and chaos itself exists in the MU as a sentient being. Chaos can be easily controlled and manipulated in a way that 40K does not have the ability to do. Wanda is explicitly a nexus for Chaos energy and tremendously powerful without fear of corruption.

"no more imperium of man."

How the Cancerverse interacts with the Marvel universe during Thanos Imperative is totally unlike how the warp interacts with WH40k though. The Cancerverse was literally an invading force with tentacles crawling into the universe from a certain place in space (hence why they can physically go there and land in there). I'ts more like an alternate Marvel Universe encroaching into the mainstream one, instead of one existing side by side, which something like the astral plain does. The main danger of the warp is like lovecraftian horror, it's mental and unknown. It's not something you can just blow up. The Gods are aspects of the worst parts of humanity (or xenos).

And I just said that MU does not need warp, the mechanics of the two universe work differently.

And I think you are confused with Chaos and the Imperium. The Imperium are fighting the chaos, so deleting them from existence wouldn't get rid of the Warp.

 

[Manmademan]

....This is insanity. The only reason the Chaos Gods haven't annihilated everything quickly is because they're busy fighting each other. Suddenly all 4 Gods have to follow Order? And work together? All you're doing is making them work together, and that's even worse for the MU universe.

with only order as a concept there IS no violence. no combat. no fighting. no struggle. only stagnation really. This has been explored before in the MU. Without chaos there is no conflict, and thus your gods are neutered.

Yes, Silver Surfer touches 'thousands'. Galactus can probably touch billions. They can cure the disease because they know exactly what it is. Like I said, Nurgle likes to experiment new diseases.

The surfer has casually created black holes just because he could. Galactus could "probably" touch billions? Galactus' hunger has wiped entire universes from existence, left unchecked. The nullifier which is a fraction of his power obliterated the entire multiverse. Another fraction of his power is dedicated to holding back abraxas, whose very existence was collapsing all reality around it. "Just Galactus" has an immeasurable power level.

Also, I forgot to mention, in the 40k universe, there are trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions upon trillions of sentient beings that feel the touch of Nurgle. Not just thousands or billions. (It is made a bullet point of how many planets and galaxies and clusters have been colonized by man, not only that but the Tyranid are coming from a far, far, far portion of the universe, running away from something even they fear. The W40K universe is probably bigger than MU's in sheer number of beings.)

The marvel universe is (or was) literally infinite. at present (due to the incursions) it's down to "only" several hundred thousand separate universes, each of which consists of innumerable galaxies. The Kree and Shi'ar empires span at least a galaxy...each. No one knows how vast the builders are, or the technarchy, spartoi, badoon, dire wraiths, brood, etc. 40K isn't anywhere NEAR as large as the MU by a long shot.

Four different Aspects that fight over control of the Warp, which is what created the universe. You remove their chaotic nature, and you get 4 Aspects with a very clear plan on what to do in order to conquer the universe and bend it to their wills.You are talking about Chaos as a concept-and the Chaos Gods are far more than a concept.

see the above. With no chaos, there is no conflict, no struggle, no war. It doesn't exist- the minds of mortals couldn't conceive of it. what do your gods do then? Or to make it more amusing, Love and Hate are also minor abstracts. Hate is eliminated or removes itself. How do you motivate troops to war when only love exists?

To put it simply, Tzeentch will become the Aspect of Change, Khorne becomes the Aspect of Violence, Nurgle the Aspect of Death and Decay, Slaanesh the Aspect of Desires, within the Marvel universe. They will exist within the MU, and if you nullify them, if you try to wish them away, then Violence, Change, Desire, and Death will cease to exist. Simple as that.

except this doesn't really make sense, because Death isn't an "aspect of" death, it's death, period- given a will. There are lesser aspects of it (such as Oblivion, or the Rot) but those are subservient to the greater concept. If your gods appeared within the MU as aspects OF death or disease, they would at best become minor aspects of the greater concept, and instantly become subservient.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

with only order as a concept there IS no violence. no combat. no fighting. no struggle. only stagnation really. This has been explored before in the MU. Without chaos there is no conflict, and thus your gods are neutered.

Incorrect. Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle would thrive in it. Disease would still exist, Lust would still exist, and change would still happen. Unless everything got frozen in place, only Khorne is the one who's directly affected by the cease in fighting.

The surfer has casually created black holes just because he could. Galactus could "probably" touch billions? Galactus' hunger has wiped entire universes from existence, left unchecked. The nullifier which is a fraction of his power obliterated the entire multiverse. Another fraction of his power is dedicated to holding back abraxas, whose very existence was collapsing all reality around it. "Just Galactus" has an immeasurable power level.

Tyranids have also wiped entired universes, all the while evolving and getting stronger. Blackholes are nothing in the 40k universe. You can run away and say 'well nullifier!!!', but I can just say 'Everything will die in the end anyways, Chaos already won, it's just a matter of when.'

The marvel universe is (or was) literally infinite. at present it's down to "only" several hundred thousand separate universes, each of which consists of innumerable galaxies. 40K isn't anywhere NEAR as large as the MU by a long shot.

The separate universes are separate for a reason. However, if you want to get technical, the Warp would infect every single one of the universes the second they try to make contact with the 616 universe, thanks to the will of the Chaos God.

see the above. With no chaos, there is no conflict, no struggle, no war. It doesn't exist- the minds of mortals couldn't conceive of it. what do your gods do then?

Slaanesh would simply spread lust among everyone. That and make everyone have uncontrollable sex. Tzeentch would probably start evolving as he will, and learning about the universe. Nurgle would probably spread disease as he pleases. Sure, it'd be ineffective, but the second Lord Chaos loses control, it all blows up in a nasty bag of disease.

Again, Khorne is the only one really affected by this.

On that note, the connection of both universes would allow Tzeentch to gain knowledge over time travel and the magics of the MU universe. You'd be giving the most powerful schemer of all time unlimited power over time. That'd be a silly thing to fight against.

 

[Violet_0]

Tyranids have also wiped entired universes*, all the while evolving and getting stronger. Blackholes are nothing in the 40k universe. You can run away and say 'well nullifier!!!', but I can just say 'Everything will die in the end anyways, Chaos already won, it's just a matter of when.'

*galaxies. There's only one universe in Warhammer

 

[Manmademan]

Incorrect. Slaanesh, Tzeentch, and Nurgle would thrive in it. Disease would still exist, Lust would still exist, and change would still happen. Unless everything got frozen in place, only Khorne is the one who's directly affected by the cease in fighting.

seems nonsensical, since if any of these actions would lead to chaos...no, they wouldn't. Disease and Lust are irrelevant when discussing higher powers, since those things don't sicken and don't procreate, and aren't alive in any meaningful sense.

Tyranids have also wiped entired universes, all the while evolving and getting strnger. Blackholes are nothing in the 40k universe. You can run away and say 'well nullifier!!!', but I can just say 'Everything will die in the end anyways, Chaos already won, it's just a matter of when.'

nothing presented in the thread seems to support any of this so far. Tyranids wiping universes out in seconds as galactus can and has done, or tearing down dimensional barriers through force of will doesn't really sound like 40K at all.

The separate universes are separate for a reason. However, if you want to get technical, the Warp would infect every single one of the universes the second they try to make contact with the 616 universe, thanks to the will of the Chaos God.

They aren't "separate" in the sense you're thinking at all. It's as simple to traverse between a dimension as it is to travel to another planet, or through time. everything is connected in the MU.

Slaanesh would simply spread lust among everyone. That and make everyone have uncontrollable sex. Tzeentch would probably start evolving as he will, and learning about the universe. Nurgle would probably spread disease as he pleases. Sure, it'd be ineffective, but the second Lord Chaos loses control, it all blows up in a nasty bag of disease.

you misunderstand- I'm not saying lord chaos somehow "keeps control", I'm saying he abdicates or is eliminated. Chaos in any form is no longer an option. Only order.

On that note, the connection of both universes would allow Tzeentch to gain knowledge over time travel and the magics of the MU universe. You'd be giving the most powerful schemer of all time unlimited power over time. That'd be a silly thing to fight against.

no amount of scheming would allow him to surpass Eternity/Infinity, who IS space/time given a will.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

seems nonsensical, since if any of these actions would lead to chaos...no, they wouldn't. Disease and Lust are irrelevant when discussing higher powers, since those things don't sicken and don't procreate, and aren't alive in any meaningful sense.

But it's not..chaotic? Tzeentch strives off those who seek knowledge. He can also affect species in such a way that they will evolve over time. And you don't understand Slaanesh, if you think Lust is irrelevant. Slaanesh is THE embodiment of lust, of desire. And yeah, Nurgle does sicken...it's not about being 'alive', lust and disease aren't alive, but the act of such empowers these two.

nothing presented in the thread seems to support any of this so far. Tyranids wiping universes out in seconds as galactus can and has done, or tearing down dimensional barriers through force of will doesn't really sound like 40K at all.

Whoops, muh bad. Meant Galaxy.

They aren't "separate" in the sense you're thinking at all. It's as simple to traverse between a dimension as it is to travel to another planet, or through time. everything is connected in the MU.

Then say hello to the Chaos Gods being the 1 thing affecting all universes in the MU.

you misunderstand- I'm not saying lord chaos somehow "keeps control", I'm saying he abdicates or is eliminated. Chaos in any form is no longer an option. Only order.

Yup. The Chaos Gods don't strive just off Chaos, though. This is where you're misunderstanding.

no amount of scheming would allow him to surpass Eternity/Infinity, who IS space/time given a will.

And if Eternity/Infinity could stop all the baddies in the MU universe, then we wouldn't be discussing this. However there are still baddies in the MU, aren't there?

 

[Manmademan]

And if Eternity/Infinity could stop all the baddies in the MU universe, then we wouldn't be discussing this. However there are still baddies in the MU, aren't there?

They certainly could if they chose to, and on occasion they have. The tribunal was the one who put a final end to the infinity gauntlet business.

The abstracts generally don't care who wins good OR bad unless it's upsetting some kind of crucial balance, as in secret wars or the infinity gauntlet saga.

Generally who beats the shit out of who doesn't concern them. Unfortunately the OP happened to make it their concern.

 

[Harken Raiser]

seems nonsensical, since if any of these actions would lead to chaos...no, they wouldn't. Disease and Lust are irrelevant when discussing higher powers, since those things don't sicken and don't procreate, and aren't alive in any meaningful sense.



nothing presented in the thread seems to support any of this so far. Tyranids wiping universes out in seconds as galactus can and has done, or tearing down dimensional barriers through force of will doesn't really sound like 40K at all.



They aren't "separate" in the sense you're thinking at all. It's as simple to traverse between a dimension as it is to travel to another planet, or through time. everything is connected in the MU.



you misunderstand- I'm not saying lord chaos somehow "keeps control", I'm saying he abdicates or is eliminated. Chaos in any form is no longer an option. Only order.



no amount of scheming would allow him to surpass Eternity/Infinity, who IS space/time given a will.

I'm not a 40k lore expert, but I believe the Chaos Gods are not actually manifestations of chaos, or powered by chaos at all. They are psychic beings that are powered by the thoughts and emotions of sentient beings. Removing the very concept of chaos from the universe doesn't directly effect them because they're only called the gods of chaos. To get rid of them you would need to eliminate all sentient life in the universe (I believe artificial intelligence feeds/is vulnerable to the Chaos Gods too) - which is still probably doable for someone in the Marvel U.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

They certainly could if they chose to, and on occasion they have. The tribunal was the one who put a final end to the infinity gauntlet business.

The abstracts generally don't care who wins good OR bad unless it's upsetting some kind of crucial balance, as in secret wars or the infinity gauntlet saga.

Generally who beats the shit out of who doesn't concern them. Unfortunately the OP happened to make it their concern.

Mhm. The funny thing is that the Chaos gods would probably coexist with Eternity/Infinity. If Eternity/Infinity care only about things that would tip over everything, than the Chaos Gods would serve as the great equalizer, fighting endlessly so that one will not reign over the others.

I'm not a 40k lore expert, but I believe the Chaos Gods are not actually manifestations of chaos, or powered by chaos at all. They are psychic beings that are powered by the thoughts and emotions of sentient beings. Removing the very concept of chaos from the universe doesn't directly effect them because they're only called the gods of chaos. To get rid of them you would need to eliminate all sentient life in the universe (I believe artificial intelligence feeds/is vulnerable to the Chaos Gods too) - which is still probably doable for someone in the Marvel U.

Bingo.

For a shortlist-

Tzeentch-Change, Desire, Knowledge, Magic.
Slaanesh-Perfection, Beauty, Lust, Pleasure, Decadence, Passion.
Khorne-Violence and all the fruitful flavors that brings.
Nurgle-Death, Disease, and he cares for those he has infected. He's a family man.

 

[Manmademan]

Mhm. The funny thing is that the Chaos gods would probably coexist with Eternity/Infinity. If Eternity/Infinity care only about things that would tip over everything, than the Chaos Gods would serve as the great equalizer, fighting endlessly so that one will not reign over the others.



Bingo.

For a shortlist-

Tzeentch-Change, Desire, Knowledge, Magic.
Slaanesh-Perfection, Beauty, Lust, Pleasure, Decadence, Passion.
Khorne-Violence and all the fruitful flavors that brings.
Nurgle-Death, Disease, and he cares for those he has infected. He's a family man.

The balance is aalready maintained by the existing abstracts. Invading lesser gods from outside of the MU are generally not looked on fondly...as secret wars showed us.

But the OP wants all out war, so there is no cooperation, only obliteration.

 

[Lizardus]

seems nonsensical, since if any of these actions would lead to chaos...no, they wouldn't. Disease and Lust are irrelevant when discussing higher powers, since those things don't sicken and don't procreate, and aren't alive in any meaningful sense.



nothing presented in the thread seems to support any of this so far. Tyranids wiping universes out in seconds as galactus can and has done, or tearing down dimensional barriers through force of will doesn't really sound like 40K at all.



They aren't "separate" in the sense you're thinking at all. It's as simple to traverse between a dimension as it is to travel to another planet, or through time. everything is connected in the MU.



you misunderstand- I'm not saying lord chaos somehow "keeps control", I'm saying he abdicates or is eliminated. Chaos in any form is no longer an option. Only order.



no amount of scheming would allow him to surpass Eternity/Infinity, who IS space/time given a will.

Lol, did you just call something nonsensical? The irony.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

The balance is aalready maintained by the existing abstracts. Invading lesser gods from outside of the MU are generally not looked on fondly...as secret wars showed us.

But the OP wants all out war, so there is no cooperation, only obliteration.

And I'm trying to argue that the second these Chaos Gods touch the MU universe, than they have a whole new group of denizens to play with. As long as there are basic emotions, and the stuff I listed above, then they will exist. The only way for them to cease to exist is to remove these temptations, to remove death, to remove disease, and to remove violence from reality.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I usually really enjoy these kinds of threads, but man, this discussion is getting boring

If you took the super OP abstract Marvel beings out of the equation, would it be a fairer fight? Because every pro-Marvel post being "But they have sentient concepts that can nullify everything and anything" isn't much of a discussion or a fun Versus thread IMO

A race vs race thread would be far more interesting, or individual vs individual thread, you can't fight the entire Marvel universe. Too much history, too many obstacles overcome, too many OP heroes and villains that barely keep each other in check. The annihilation wave tried and got 90% wiped by a drastically weakened Galactus. The "immortal" leader of the Cancerverse got fucking erased by Death. Mephisto, Legion, and Scarlet Witch have rewritten Marvel time without breaking a sweat. Low level cosmics like Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Sentry, Terrax, and Black Bolt can destroy planets DBZ style. Doom incinerated all of Earth's heroes in an instant when he possessed the Beyonder power. The Celestials threw planets at Thanos to distract him when he had the Infinity Gauntlet. Thanos killed half of ALL life in the universe, sentient or not, just by snapping his fingers while in possession of the gauntlet.

The scale of Warhammer's known universe is too small (one galaxy) to matter against Marvel forces that have existed for over 50 years.

If you want to make it a fair fight you have to change the stipulations. Every individual in Marvel is capable of losing, as is every race, given the right conditions. The god-like beings are generally only beaten by other god-likes or ridiculous circumstance, not sheer power.

Edit: And there are artifacts and individuals who can control or cut off all emotions/thought from sentient life in the MU at a universal scale. The possessor of the mind gem, for instance, or Sire Hate. Death can make anyone she chooses effectively immortal (like she has with her bff Thanos), rendering any physical victory temporary at best. Chronos could send the entire Tyranid fleet into an infinite time loop at the beginning or end of the known galaxy.

 

[Hyperactivity]

Marvel always wins, simply because their works are the epitomes of exaggerated power fantasies all neatly wrapped up in an impenetrable shitstorm of horrific continuity that oh-so conveniently allows their fanbase to 120% Perfect Counter any fictional challenger(s).

Warhammer 40K, despite also containing quite outlandish and fantastic concepts, is far more grounded and 'realistically' portrayed by its writers in the sense of how the majority of their conflicts, both large-scale and small, are resolved; mostly via martial or tactical prowess, with any fantastical elements being tastefully used as accentuating plot spices, as opposed to Marvel's trademark regularly-scheduled quantum blow-out handwaviums.

No fiction on Earth exists that can fight Marvel. The trick is to position yourself between two of Marvel's properties and provoke one of them into firing at you, upon which you sidestep and allow the projectile to strike the other Marvel property, triggering a civil dispute that you merely observe from the shade as the two defence forces tear into each other with hot friendly fire like enraged Doom imps. Only Marvel can 'win' against Marvel. That's the sad truth.

Basically,

...I guess if it came down to it, if both Marvel and WH40K universes were absolutely committed to fighting each other in a un-turncoat-able total-war type of scenario; both sides would utterly annihilate each other, until all that remained was a brief stalemate between Marvel's cosmic/supernatural beings and WH40K's Warp/Chaos Gods, just before some Marvel property inevitably sticks a celestial syringe up its own ass and extracts a bullshit marinade to soak the 41st Millenium in.

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but based off of the TTGL vs Galactus and canonlogical strongest Smash character threads, how would Madoka (at the end of the series), Super TTGL, Kirby, and Shulk fare in the Marvel universe?

 

[ArcLyte]

I don't know much about most of the WH40k races. How do the Tyranids measure up to the Annihilation wave?

Tyrranids are pretty much the annihilation wave on steroids. They are absolutely a greater threat.

 

[Harken Raiser]

A race vs race thread would be far more interesting, or individual vs individual thread, you can't fight the entire Marvel universe. Too much history, too many obstacles overcome, too many OP heroes and villains that barely keep each other in check. The annihilation wave tried and got 90% wiped by a drastically weakened Galactus. The "immortal" leader of the Cancerverse got fucking erased by Death. Mephisto, Legion, and Scarlet Witch have rewritten Marvel time without breaking a sweat. Low level cosmics like Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Sentry, Terrax, and Black Bolt can destroy planets DBZ style. Doom incinerated all of Earth's heroes in an instant when he possessed the Beyonder power. The Celestials threw planets at Thanos to distract him when he had the Infinity Gauntlet. Thanos killed half of ALL life in the universe, sentient or not, just by snapping his fingers while in possession of the gauntlet.

The scale of Warhammer's known universe is too small (one galaxy) to matter against Marvel forces that have existed for over 50 years.

If you want to make it a fair fight you have to change the stipulations. Every individual in Marvel is capable of losing, as is every race, given the right conditions. The god-like beings are generally only beaten by other god-likes or ridiculous circumstance, not sheer power.

You're correct. You're just not going to get an interesting discussion when you include all the cosmic beings. You're better off with something like "How would the Skrull Empire fare against the Imperium of Man?", or "Can the Avengers successfully fend off an ork Waaagh! (including the spores the orks spread)?" or "Whats the weakest Marvel character who could defeat a C'tan?".

 

[AlfredX1990]

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but based off of the TTGL vs Galactus and canonlogical strongest Smash character threads, how would Madoka (at the end of the series), Super TTGL, Kirby, and Shulk fare in the Marvel universe?

How much fed was Galactus for the fight? A fully fed Galactus would laught at Super Ultra Mega TTGL, Kirby and Shulk

Madoka is the only one I can see Galactus having a problem because she literally rewrote the universe which is something that might give Galactus some problems depending on how much of that power Madoka can use to attack him but even assuming that that's enough to beat Galactus anybody who's using the Infinity Gauntlet would remove Madoka from existence with a mere though

 

[Lizardus]

Let's just say that the reality warpers of MU are resisted by the combined psykers of WH40K universe so the playing field is now bit more reasonable.

 

[ArcLyte]

lol... what have I done? Finally decided to start and finsh Horus saga and ordered Horus box set. I guess, I know what I'm reading this month.

Can't wait to get my own box.

Holy shit. I need this, off to amazon.

 

[spootime]

I agree with above posters that someone should make a warhammer vs x specific property thread instead. I think there's been over a dozen characters named in this thread that could solo the warhammer universe.

I do like the idea of a marvel reality warper exposing himself to the sheer insanity of the warp and his brain exploding.

 

[Slayven]

I agree with above posters that someone should make a warhammer vs x specific property thread instead. I think there's been over a dozen characters named in this thread that could solo the warhammer universe.

I do like the idea of a marvel reality warper exposing himself to the sheer insanity of the warp and his brain exploding.

The Warp doesn't know reality warping insanity

 

[Violet_0]

Let's just say that the reality warpers of MU are resisted by the combined psykers of WH40K universe so the playing field is now bit more reasonable.

would the Necron anti-Warp technology and the Tyranid Shadow in the Warp have any effect on the reality-shaping powers of cosmic Marvel? That could help a bit, I suppose. Heck, I bet the Necrons would even be willing to join forces with the Imperium for a time to fight the new threat - not that the Imperium would ever agree to this, though. Afaik they don't actually mind the humans all that much, they just want to enslave them like the rest of the galaxy eventually.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

would the Necron anti-Warp technology and the Tyranid Shadow in the Warp have any effect on the reality-shaping powers of cosmic Marvel? That could help a bit, I suppose. Heck, I bet the Necrons would even be willing to join forces with the Imperium for a time to fight the new threat - not that the Imperium would ever agree to this, though. Afaik they don't actually mind the humans all that much, they just want to enslave them like the rest of the galaxy eventually.

The only ones that would be a wildcard are Tyranids.

So yeah, in a whole galaxy spanning army vs. army situation, Necrons and even Chaos would probably work against the MU if it was an invasion scenario.

 

[Lizardus]

would the Necron anti-Warp technology and the Tyranid Shadow in the Warp have any effect on the reality-shaping powers of cosmic Marvel? That could help a bit, I suppose. Heck, I bet the Necrons would even be willing to join forces with the Imperium for a time to fight the new threat - not that the Imperium would ever agree to this, though. Afaik they don't actually mind the humans all that much, they just want to enslave them like the rest of the galaxy eventually.

Yes. I believe an infinite number of orks would be able to shape reality just because they want to.

For this battle to work, everyone in same universe would have to work together.

 

[Violet_0]

Yes. I believe an infinite number of orks would be able to shape reality just because they want to.

For this battle to work, everyone in same universe would have to work together.

unlikely, unless we ignore all the universe-specific lore
Eldar and Tau could become allies of the Imperium, sure (they're still Xenos, though, so that alliance wouldn't last long). I don't think the Imperium would ever be willing to fight alongside Necrons, and besides Necrons and Eldar are archenemies. Orks, I guess you can bribe/manipulate individual warbands into doing your bidding but as a race they are unpredictable and uncontrollable. Tyranids can't be reasoned with and no one would be crazy enough to make a deal with the Powers of Chaos. Last we have the Dark Eldar, nobody cares about them

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Yes. I believe an infinite number of orks would be able to shape reality just because they want to.

For this battle to work, everyone in same universe would have to work together.

Orks are a funny tangent to the universe.

They believe that painting their vehicles a certain color will give them certain traits. And it just happens. It's always noted how half their technology shouldn't work, but it just does, just because they think it will.

 

[HK-47]

Orks are a funny tangent to the universe.

They believe that painting their vehicles a certain color will give them certain traits. And it just happens. It's always noted how half their technology shouldn't work, but it just does, just because they think it will.

They must be from NeoGAF

 

[Trickster]

I would imagine Marvel Universe would take it, I mean there are some entities in the univerese that are basically omnipotent gods that oversee entire universes. Not to mention that superhero comic books are just about the most inconsistent type of storytelling ever. One day someone gets beaten by some low tier villain or hero, next time they beat up thanos or some shit.

Warhammer 40k universe seems like a vastly superior univerese when it comes to how thought out and consistent it is though.

 

[Lizardus]

unlikely, unless we ignore all the universe-specific lore
Eldar and Tau could become allies of the Imperium, sure (they're still Xenos, though, so that alliance wouldn't last long). I don't think the Imperium would ever be willing to fight alongside Necrons, and besides Necrons and Eldar are archenemies. Orks, I guess you can bribe/manipulate individual warbands into doing your bidding but as a race they are unpredictable and uncontrollable. Tyranids can't be reasoned with and no one would be crazy enough to make a deal with the Powers of Chaos. Last we have the Dark Eldar, nobody cares about them

I thought this was a given when you pit a universe against another, that everyone from the same universe is on same side.

 

[Violet_0]

I thought this was a given when you pit a universe against another, that everyone from the same universe is on same side.

oh, that's how these things work? Carry on then

 

[HK-47]

I would imagine Marvel Universe would take it, I mean there are some entities in the univerese that are basically omnipotent gods that oversee entire universes. Not to mention that superhero comic books are just about the most inconsistent type of storytelling ever. One day someone gets beaten by some low tier villain or hero, next time they beat up thanos or some shit.

Warhammer 40k universe seems like a vastly superior univerese when it comes to how thought out and consistent it is though.

Side effect of it being based on a tabletop minatures game.

 

[Coriolanus]

Again-

Is there anyone in the Marvel Universe who wants change? Who seeks Knowledge? Tzeentch exists. You do not remove him, you do not stop him, you do not wish him away. As long as people want change, he exists, and He will lead them to Him.

Is there war? Is there violence? Khorne exists.
Is there disease? Is there death? Nurgle exists.
Is there desire? Is there lust? Slaanesh exists.
The second the 40k universe touches the MU universe, than they(The Chaos Gods) become one, and one cannot exist without the other.

To put it simply, Tzeentch will become the Aspect of Change, Khorne becomes the Aspect of Violence, Nurgle the Aspect of Death and Decay, Slaanesh the Aspect of Desires, within the Marvel universe. They will exist within the MU, and if you nullify them, if you try to wish them away, then Violence, Change, Desire, and Death will cease to exist. Simple as that.

You keep repeating that, and yet it is not so.
There are all of those things in 616. None of those have spawned the warp entities, simply because the flow goes the other way there.

In 40k, there is disease, and once there is enough disease, papa nurgle is born.
In mahvel, there is disease because it emanates from life.

in other words
40k is "if X happens, then Y gets +1"
marvel is "if Y exists, then X can happen", it does not flow the other way.

Thus your premisse that mahvel guys having emotions would make Hulk go all "Craniums for The Cranium Chaise Lounge" simply has no consistent internal logic.

And your way around that is saying "mahvel can't use their big guys, only 40k can"
Sorry, that's just unfair. You bring your big toys, the other guys also bring theirs, and then marvel, as usual, wins. Simply by virtue of being more broken.

What i mean to say by this is, stop using the chaos gods. The only way this comparison can ever make sense is if you remove them from the equation. Otherwise marvel also gets all of its toys, and you'll get hit with the Living Tribunal or the One Above All, and, as you said, then there is no comparison.

Now compare a Changer of Ways to the kind of shit that runs around on marvel. That's the problem. 40k is just outclassed.
-
Tbh, emotions giving rise to warp entities isn't an absolute truth even in 40k. Blanks, Tau, Orks, Necrons, Nids, yo. Only non-blank humans and eldar actively feed the warp.

....This is insanity. The only reason the Chaos Gods haven't annihilated everything quickly is because they're busy fighting each other. Suddenly all 4 Gods have to follow Order? And work together? All you're doing is making them work together, and that's even worse for the MU universe.

How many black crusades has failbaddon started by now, 14?

 

[Atilac]

Does this matter if in the end everything is bested by Gurren Lagann?

 

[ninanuam]

While I love 40 fluff, it has to go to marvel.

Because Marvel is written by batshit crazy people who don't seem to have any idea about the scale of universes.

 

[Azih]

lol! did you just reference "the laws of physics" when talking about fictional comic book universes?

Sure, when comparing it to non material areas which by their very nature don't follow any kind of rule at all and affect some sort of material plane that does. The Cancerverse is a very odd comparison as that is an alternate reality dimension. Not a psychic dimension intimately linked to physical reality like the Warp is. There's nothing quite like it in Marvel so it remains an x-factor.