Pai Pai Master
Banned
It's what we'd call "Augmented Reality"
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Was Microsoft's Minecraft demonstration of HoloLens deceptive?
- Thread starter Two Words
- Start date
It's what we'd call "Augmented Reality"
That's not the same thing at all. The hologram is there.
Salt free with salt is lying. Lying isn't misleading. Wearing heels is misleading. Outright saying you are 5 inches taller than you are is lying
Well, we know for a fact that they can improve to at least what it was in January.
See, that's basically saying "Look, they're going to be deceptive. So it's on you to just remain skeptical, not on them to be honest."
UnluckyKate
Member
Yes it was : Hololens is described by people who tried as : low visibility angle, laggy, shuttering, not as responsive.
Of course their " special camera " can fix all that
of course it's NOT for the Xbox One as well, but Microsoft like to keep the confusion around their thing, just like Kinect
Of course their " special camera " can fix all that
of course it's NOT for the Xbox One as well, but Microsoft like to keep the confusion around their thing, just like Kinect
Why would the tech in this past January be any better than the tech showed last week?
Gerstman didn't say anything about it being stuttering and non-responsive. In fact he said everything was quite smooth and cool. Only issue he had of course was the small fov.
They basically place a HoloLens on a video camera.
The only reason why it give a different impression is because a video camera lacks peripheral vision. That "hologram visible" area would basically be what's visible on your TV when you're watching the presentation at home. Everything outside of it would essentially be what your eyes would capture, but a video camera will miss.
Recreating the "correct" FOV in this case would simply mean viewing the HoloLens image from further out to artificially give the impression of peripheral vision to a device that has none. I'm not sure why any company demonstrating a new product would choose to do that tbh.
eot
Banned
Not necessarily, they weren't filming with a very high FOV so the FOV could very much have been the FOV. It takes up less of your vision than it takes up screen space in the video, but that's a different matter.
They mean the same thing, google cites misleading as synonym or deceptive.
deceptive:
giving an appearance or impression different from the true one; misleading.
misleading:
giving the wrong idea or impression.
link to those impressions? I've read nothing but good things bar the FOV. and they've said several times they're not tethering it to the XB1.
iirc, the model with the wider FOV was tethered to a computer and this one wasn't. I may be wrong on that, but there's been two(?) different models with varying FOV.
UnluckyKate
Member
french press talking about it, sorry in french :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-N_82Xc2mg
He says it's very heavy and not confortable (all weight on the forehead or worst, the nose), you think of the huge glass cover you will have a wide FoV but actually there are the actuall glasses inside, that are very narrow " gameboy size " whatever he meant by that and you obviously only see the hologram through the two glasses (one for each eyes) and it's narrow. He praises the quality of the illusion of the demo (walking over, looking through the windows opening to a level " the illusion is pretty impressive " but he says that during the briefing demo around the table with the hologram character talking, it was " perfectly calibrated for the distance of the user, if you would come a bit closer with your head, you would loose the character of sight. Reactivity is not very good, if you shake your head you notice lag. Same when tilt up or down, your head you see color decomposition (green, blue, red) running out of the hologram. It's also very passive, we only looked at stuff. One moment there was a ship and there was some eye tracking because it poped information were the eye would look at. Then they took off the helms of our heads and we moved to another room to play Halo 5. "
the other guy asked about " But Minecraft ? the demo ? Where was it ? "
" well, in everyone collective imagination. Because they didn't show it to us and were insanely precautious about how they present the tech. "
Was tethered. Meaning more computational power and no battery needs.
Lol they remind me so much of Hooli, the fictitious evil corporation from Silicone Valley
Pathfinder
Member
Did we really need another thread for this?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1063381
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1066542
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1063381
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1066542
DHC-Shannow
Member
https://youtu.be/xgakdcEzVwg
Watch the vid around the 3 minute mark when he's pinched it to scroll the world. You'll see it change direction then his hand follows where's it going.
Now it could be they just didn't trust it to work right cos it's in development, or it could be milo bullshit again...
Were people that tried HoloLens saying it worked better in January?
RiccochetJ
Gold Member
I think it's deceptive in the sense that the camera filming the whole thing gives you the impression that's what you'll see/experience for FOV.
At some point they should have shown the POV of the person wearing the glasses. It's still impressive as hell.
At some point they should have shown the POV of the person wearing the glasses. It's still impressive as hell.
Heres the patent - check yourself
https://www.google.com/patents/US20130250430
The bold is my emphasis
ps3ud0 8)
It's hard to not consider it as deceptive.
Particularly since there was a ton of press after the pre-release units were made available to people at BUILD or whenever it was shown a little while back. Those units had a significantly larger FOV, and have colored many peoples' expectations for it.
You couple the word of mouth from the original showing with how they demoed it at the E3 press conference, and it's pretty clear MS knew what they were doing.
I mean come on, when Thurrott is calling them out for this (and is obviously really upset by how much worse the consumer version is versus what he tested out previously) ... you know people are gonna be upset.
Particularly since there was a ton of press after the pre-release units were made available to people at BUILD or whenever it was shown a little while back. Those units had a significantly larger FOV, and have colored many peoples' expectations for it.
You couple the word of mouth from the original showing with how they demoed it at the E3 press conference, and it's pretty clear MS knew what they were doing.
I mean come on, when Thurrott is calling them out for this (and is obviously really upset by how much worse the consumer version is versus what he tested out previously) ... you know people are gonna be upset.
VincentMatts
Member
When i see Hololens, i think of Milo.
I would call it misleading because they showed it at the conference just so that customers expect that faked experience when they buy an Xbone, now people I know are expecting it to be Morpheus's rival when it really doesn't have much to do with their console business.
Just a bad marketing practice
Just a bad marketing practice
It has been mentioned many places. The latest of which was during the latest IGN podcast that had Phil as a guest. She mentioned the fov was better in Jan.
http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/25/podcast-unlocked-episode-1995-xbox-e3-reactions-and-analysis
Hah, oh wow I saw it now too.
I will NEVER get tired of seeing that gif.
Cthulhu_Steev
Member
That FOV is pretty damned important if they're saying you can see the full table covered, when you can't in (actual) reality.
I'm not arguing with that. I'm saying that the device they showed at Build and E3, is lower than that theoretical max because they have shown a device with better fov. It was tethered.
I still haven't forgiven them for that Project Natal video. The moment Kudo walked on stage I expected to be deceived. MS can make great consoles but they have a bad history with peripherals.
For those of you who forget the video I'm talking about:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_txF7iETX0
For those of you who forget the video I'm talking about:http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=g_txF7iETX0
lol yeah Kudo is like the official MS Snake Oil Salesman now.
Then why did the MS people on stage for demos repeatedly say 'this camera will show you exactly what the hololens wearer sees'? They could easily have simulated a narrow FoV on the camera but didn't. That deception is compounded by examples they showed such as enlarging a video window to fill the wall, implying you could watch a movie like that.
The end result is misleading because when seeing solid objects in the real world, seeing the entire object is fundamental to proper immersion. Having a window with edges of objects clipping would break that immersion.
Im not sure how you are leaping to the notion that somehow it being tethered equals higher FOV. Do you have link confirming that statement at all?
I admit they may not be using waveguides but I cant find anything that contradicts that at this point in time.
ps3ud0 8)
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
Stop.
shiftplusone
Member
which was also microsoft lying about functionality of their device
company says "Here is *thing* and here is how it works"
(This is not actually how it works and we are faking this)
that's on them for being deceptive.
I am fortunate enough to know that they are lying, but if a cousin sees that video and goes and buys the thing, it's not his fault that they embellished on the functionality.
I mentioned it before. MS is literally limited by physics.
I'm not sure what you are saying. We know the January device had higher fov. Are you disputing that? If the E3 device small fov was because of the physical limitation of the lenses, the January device would not have had a higher fov.
Lol, it also gets on my nerves
How do you demo a field of view?
even people putting up pictures with the window being 50 percent of your fov don't take in account that the whole thing is inches from your eyes. So it's not like your looking at your monitor, at a 10x10 box, and the fov is only 5 x 5 fov.
Then someone on a 10 inch tablet looks at that image and goes "Lol MS lies".
StreelyDan
Member
No, a widescreen camera view is already a portion of your field of view...
VincentMatts
Member
Exactly. I don't believe their tech demos anymore. Kinect a great tech demos, Milo and all that other stuff, and it launched with games that barely worked to the point where they pretty much killed it off now. Im not holding my breath with Hololens.
Poor (probably deliberately poor) choice of words. The camera is showing you what someone wearing the HoloLens sees. However no video camera shows you everything a human eye sees. It's like recording a video of a concert... both you and the camera see the band and some of the crowd... but much of what you see in person isn't represented by your recording, unless the recording is taken from somewhere different from where you're located.
Final Verdict
Member
perfectly put!
From what I have read on it, all of the stuff they showed works just like they have shown, only with the limited FOV.
So is it deceptive? Yes, but trying to explain the limitations on stage would have taken away the magic 'wow' factor, so that is probably why they didn't bother to explain it.
I don't think they are trying to hide it though...they have fully allowed the press to demo the actual product, and said in interviews that the FOV is not changing. They simply want to control the mass perception of the product, and so they are not mentioning the limitations on stage....
Just my opinion on the matter
Yup, you could see quite clearly that it was fake. You would have thought that these people would have practiced enough times to get the timing right.
Unfortunately after the Kinect nonsense it's no surprise that the HoloLens demo was fake. In fact I expected it to be.
Really annoying that Microsoft come up with these things too early, before the technology involved is up to the job. Loads of lag with Kinect and crappy FoV with HoloLens. And it's practically guaranteed that the next big thing that appears for a Microsoft console is also going to be fake because that too won't work the way they're implying it will.
not_so_special
Banned
of course it was
You guys are looking at this way too simplistically. FOV is not the end all be all. I explained it before in the other thread.
Optics is constantly about balancing different factors whether with weight, FOV, distortion, etc
You have to give and go.
All Im saying is that there is a physical limitation and that limit is nearly 50 degrees. I doubt the glass they use currently (in the consumer product they showed off) is of the same quality to hit that limit.
What I dont understand is how you are inferring that tethered equals higher FOV. Just seems a logical fallacy without some form of source or understanding.
ps3ud0 8)