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Was there any saving the Sega Saturn?

Sega was already screwed thanks to the 32x and the Sega CD.

And no, no saving for the Saturn unless Sega pumped massive amounts of cash to make up for the shortcomings...and Sega didn't have the money.

These ventures certainly put them in financial difficulty. The real problem with the Saturn though was the Playstation. For a generation ushering 3D gaming into the living room the Saturn just wasn't up to the task. The gulf in quality in leading titles such as Tomb Raider was far bigger than what we are squabbling about these days. Digital Foundry would have been comical back then. Then we had Sony's marketing, bleeding-edge games like Wipeout and a competitive price-point. It tapped into the public consciousness and made gaming cool for the first time.

Not to say the Saturn didn't have some great games (indeed some of my fondest gaming memories were on Saturn) but sometimes you just have to tip your hat to the competition and come back stronger. They did that with the Dreamcast but the well was completely dry by then.
 
Importing Saturn games was the remedy pill to get me through those early 3D-era blues.

There was no way Sega was going to beat Nintendo or Sony at that price point and with no Sonic game. But still, a steady stream of some of those Japanese games would have been nice.
 
EDIT: The Sega CD did fine. It actually sold pretty well for an add-on.

Saturn was basically DOA. Sega already screwed up with the 32X, and botching the Saturn launch right after that was probably the single biggest blunder they made.

The Saturn clearly had potential. It was very successful in Japan after all. Sega USA squandered it, and squandered in so spectacularly that it in many ways laid down the path for Sega to eventually exit the console business altogether.

Before anyone brings up Stolar, he was brought in basically to make the Saturn's death as painless for the company as possible. He was also the one responsible for the Dreamcast launch, which was actually pretty successful and the console was doing pretty well, just not well enough to compete toe to toe against Sony and make up for those Saturn losses. Too little, too late really.

What role did Peter Moore have there during the Dreamcast's launch?
 
You know the Sega Saturn had amazing 3D games. I hate when people discredit the Sega Saturn's potential. Granted the potential was to big of a hurdle for even Sega... Check out Sega Saturn Shenmue...the Sega Saturn was never maxed out.

Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Nights into Dreams had wide screen support and looked amazing for the time.

Games like Virtua Fighter 2, Decathalete, and more were higher res than what was available on PSX and looked amazing with a VGA adapter.

Shining Force 3 still looks good enough to play and hope for a 3DS port.
 
If Nintendo could hardly survive their own stupidity and the Playstation, there was ZERO chance Sega would be able to do the same.
Yet Nintendo matched SCE profits despite its "own stupidity and Playstation".
The reality was that Nintendo had more cash, was better run and with far stronger games (better selling) compared to Sega.
That arcade were going south didn't help either.
 
I think both the Saturn and Dreamcast were doomed by their predecessors. Up until around 1995, SEGA had just fucked up too much and the company's downfall was inevitable at that point.

SEGA's biggest bad habit was always jumping the gun on hardware in my opinion. It should never have rushed out the SEGA CD and 32X just to cash in on the upcoming 3D trend. SEGA should have waited and made the Saturn its console for 3D gaming, and then not prematurely launched it.

Even then it probably would not have beaten the PSX or N64 without some serious killer games (like a flagship Sonic game), but maybe would not have crashed and burned. If that had happen and then SEGA had released the Dreamcast as-is (but held back for a worldwide 1999 launch), then it might have held on for longer. Who knows.

The virtue SEGA really needed to learn was patience with its hardware.

Yet Nintendo matched SCE profits despite its "own stupidity and Playstation".
The reality was that Nintendo had more cash, were better run and with far stronger games (better selling) compared to Sega.
That arcade were going south didn't help either.

This is why Nintendo is still around making hardware and SEGA isn't. They're really pretty similar: they're mainly video game companies that decided to make hardware, competing against a multimedia company. The difference is the guys at Nintendo (namely Yamauchi) realized they had to horde cash and run a tight ship to survive against companies like Sony. Having some of the most talented game designers in the business doesn't hurt either.
 
From what I understand Sega of Japan is to blame for the Sega Saturn. I think I read somewhere that Sega of America and Sega of Japan basically were at odds with each other and the final design of the Saturn was due to Sega of Japan being idiots. The Dreamcast was great thanks to Sega of America I think, but the Saturn already did the damage. That era was so ripe for the picking for Sega. Nintendo decided to stick with cartridges and Sony was the new kid on the block and had yet to prove itself, but then Sega decided to release a system that was really hard to program for, made it more expensive than the PS1, the early launch fiasco and it didn't to 3D as well. There were definitely great games on the Saturn, especially if you lived in Japan, but in the U.S. it was meh.
The console side was simply an American bastard child, it changed diring the DC era but it was too little too late. Still SoA completely mucked up the launch of the system and neglected many quality Japanese games. At best it could've been a GC or XBOX of its era though.

Even now Sega Arcade are extremely protective over their games which is why we always see Mega Drive versions as ports rather than the superior Arcade versions.
 
The lack of transparencies and hardware light-sourcing killed it, along with costing 100 bucks extra. It was a 2d powerhouse and a lot of it's games have aged better than the PSone's but back then it was all about the 3rd dimension(hideous in hindsight).
 
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It's pretty amazing (and maybe sad) how one system manage to screw over an entire gaming company who had previously built the success known as Genesis.

Of course, the system wasn't without flaws. It launched too early, the hardware was difficult to work with, and SEGA nearly killed consumer interest by releasing those terrible Genesis add-ons and even teasing new consoles (Sega Neptune).

That said, it's really surprising it only manage to sell 9.5 million units in the end. Did anyone at SEGA not see how this could destroy their future? That's less numbers than the cartridge based N64 which had to be really embarrassing.

So was Saturn impossible to fix? Or was there ever hope somewhere?

I think the console could have at least gained exposure if they actually made a flagship Sonic. I remember there was Sonic R and Sonic Jam but those were no where near as memorable as the first Sonic 1,2 and 3 on the Genesis.

Before Sega bungled the Saturn they screwed up with a lousy Sega CD add on and the pointless 32X.

There was no saving this thing. Playstation absolutely destroyed it, and many big name games as well as prominent third party publishers had nothing to do with it.

An original Sonic was in the works but it never came to be. It honestly never looked very good, so it was probably for the best.
 
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It's pretty amazing (and maybe sad) how one system manage to screw over an entire gaming company who had previously built the success known as Genesis.

Of course, the system wasn't without flaws. It launched too early, the hardware was difficult to work with, and SEGA nearly killed consumer interest by releasing those terrible Genesis add-ons and even teasing new consoles (Sega Neptune).

That said, it's really surprising it only manage to sell 9.5 million units in the end. Did anyone at SEGA not see how this could destroy their future? That's less numbers than the cartridge based N64 which had to be really embarrassing.

So was Saturn impossible to fix? Or was there ever hope somewhere?

I think the console could have at least gained exposure if they actually made a flagship Sonic. I remember there was Sonic R and Sonic Jam but those were no where near as memorable as the first Sonic 1,2 and 3 on the Genesis.


I prefer to blame the Sega CD and (mostly) the 32X for that. The way they marketed the Sega Saturn probably didn't help, but at least it was a very solid console with a great library.
 
I like to think that, if the console were cheaper AND it opted to stick to its guns and develop a library that played to its 2D strengths opposed to chasing 3D, it *might* have been able to carve out a nice niche for itself.
 
No.

This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Complex Questions®.

In all seriousness, Sony's business plan and the advent of 3D seemed to catch Sega completely off-guard, and after that point you can't really change the reality of the situation.
 
I like to think that, if the console were cheaper AND it opted to stick to its guns and develop a library that played to its 2D strengths opposed to chasing 3D, it *might* have been able to carve out a nice niche for itself.

The price really hurt, but North America was all aboard the 3D train in the mid 90s, so I think ignoring 3D for 2D wouldn't have helped any. Especially by the time the N64 launched. North America was by far Sega's dominant market. Dropping 90%+ from the Genesis to the Saturn torpedoed them.

Saturn needed to be $100 cheaper at launch.
 
This is basically the story of almost every US subsidiary of a Japanese entertainment company ever. It's like Sony is the only one that can properly handle the fact that the rest of the planet exists.

Nah its more like they realized after the major disaster of the PS3 launch that maybe they need external help.
 
No.

This has been another edition of Simple Answers to Complex Questions®.

In all seriousness, Sony's business plan and the advent of 3D seemed to catch Sega completely off-guard, and after that point you can't really change the reality of the situation.

I have no doubt Sony delivered a heavy blow to any serious comeback by SEGA but I believe successful marketing can always be used to salvage or make a situation less worse.

Now the problem is how would SEGA have done it back then especially without any hindsight. I mentioned Sonic as one of the obvious things that SEGA still missed.
 
The Saturn wasn't the system that screwed Sega over. They were already in the danger zone when they tried stop-gap half-assed hardware like the Sega CD and the 32X.
 
sega in the mid 90s is a textbook case of how you don't run a company. at least kalinske knew what was up, but he was powerless against japan's bullshit

as for saturn, sony really cleaned their clock right out of the gate, its hard to fathom what could've saved the ship.

it's a shame, they really did seem to "get it right" with the dreamcast but by then it was too late. maybe if their decisions in the mid 90s werent so horrid they'd have enough capital to keep the DC afloat for three to five more years
 
Also, part of the screw-up SoA did was souring the retailers when they didn't keep their end of the bargain and instead of releasing the Saturn on the agreed "Saturn-day" release, they instead went ahead and had certain retailers release them right away, ahead of schedule. This caused confusion among consumers and pissed off the other retailers.

You don't confuse your consumers in this cut-throat business, especially not in those days when the Internet wasn't that ubiquitous yet to inform everyone right away.
 
The Saturn wasn't the system that screwed Sega over. They were already in the danger zone when they tried stop-gap half-assed hardware like the Sega CD and the 32X.
Did those add-ons have a higher opportunity cost than Saturn? If not, then a successful console would outweigh any negative effects of the CD and 32x.

That generation saw a massive growth thanks to 3D technology and SEGA throwing that away is bigger bad news to me.
 
Yes, but really they needed to have behaved differently before it launched. If Sega of Japan had been less blind and arrogant they could have foreseen the direction that gaming was going and built hardware accordingly. Instead they built a clumsy machine which, despite having quite a bit of raw power, was ill suited to future games. The older 3DO was more in tune with the way the industry moved than the Saturn. Sega also completely failed to leverage their successful franchises of the previous generation, and also failed to strengthen links/gain exclusivity with developers who had served them well in the past (Namco and Core Design being two key ones). If that wasn't enough, their marketing outside of Japan was a failure and they bungled the US and European launch. Oh, and finally, if it wasn't for SOJ's arrogance there could have been no Sony Playstation and Sega Saturn and instead there could have been a jointly produced machine.

It's popular opinion now that Sony was some kind of unstoppable juggernaut, but really they were something of an unknown quantity before the launch of the Playstation and didn't become truly massive until the Saturn was already on it's last legs. Prior to the launch of the PS Sega had been winning the 16-bit wars worldwide and were dominating the arcades. They squandered that momentum. Do I think Sega could have beaten Sony? No. Do I think Sega could have produced a console capable of at least putting up a good fight in the west? If they hadn't screwed up so badly, yes.
 
Not really, it was terrible at 3D.

It was good enough to last against the likes of the PS1 and N64. Games like Panzer Dragoon Zwei and Nights really show it off. The Saturn also got plenty of PS1 ports such as Wipeout and Tomb Raider... granted, not as good as the PS1 versions but certainly in the same range.

The problem was its higher initial price, and lack of a true 32-bit Sonic game. Despite plenty of cool games, many Sega fans expected a new Sonic.

Did those add-ons have a higher opportunity cost than Saturn? If not, then a successful console would outweigh any negative effects of the CD and 32x.

It led to a loss of consumer confidence, since Sega abandoned them so quickly. And they were expensive. Had Sega not released the 32X, those fans would have simply waited and bought a Saturn instead. Many felt burned by that.
 
I would like to believe that there is a universe in which sega brought all of their jp saturn games to the us.

Expecially the capcom and snk fighting ports.

And everyone bought them and played almost if not arcade perfect ports and everyone was happy.

I have a dream...
 
Did those add-ons have a higher opportunity cost than Saturn? If not, then a successful console would outweigh any negative effects of the CD and 32x.

That generation saw a massive growth thanks to 3D technology and SEGA throwing that away is bigger bad news to me.

It's really not a matter of the cost of those two add-ons (although they are a factor as well). It's more of the devaluation of the brand that those two caused to Sega. By the time the Saturn was released, a lot of gamers were already burned by Sega's two add-on hardware and crummy software (lol FMV) that I don't think, regardless of the power of the Saturn, it would have been their first choice, especially with the N64 and the PS1 in the arena.

And the sad part is that the Saturn WAS an awesome piece of hardware, even though it was like the PS3 of its time (hardware that software engineers had to really work on to get the best effects). The guys at AM2 proved that the Saturn can churn out awesome 3D, and it was second to none when running 2D sprites. It's just really hard to get into; meanwhile, Sega's marketing were doing a stellar job fucking things up NA and EU side.
 
As a huge fan of Sega games, I was deadset keen to get a Saturn... until I got to test the system out, right next to a Playstation. It was clear which one was the more powerful system even to my very young eyes.

If they had launched with arcade perfect versions of Daytona USA and Virtua Fighter, things might have been different.
 
It led to a loss of consumer confidence, since Sega abandoned them so quickly. And they were expensive. Had Sega not released the 32X, those fans would have simply waited and bought a Saturn instead. Many felt burned by that.

The Sega CD was a commercial failure, but actually had some good games. The problem was the price $300 price tag and the over reliance on FMV games at the start. CD-rom add-ons were not insane propositions at the time. The whole reason PlayStation existed in the first place was that Nintendo was trying to make SNES with a CD-rom drive. I remember playing Lunar 2 for the first time on Sega-CD around the same time as the Saturn launch.

The 32X was by far the biggest offender. It was billed as a stop-gap for people who couldn't afford a Saturn, but wanted 3D gaming. Outside of Star Wars arcade and Virtua Racing, the library was atrocious as was the fact it was barely supported. I should no. I had one. Definitely burned me.
 
It led to a loss of consumer confidence, since Sega abandoned them so quickly. And they were expensive. Had Sega not released the 32X, those fans would have simply waited and bought a Saturn instead. Many felt burned by that.
It's really not a matter of the cost of those two add-ons (although they are a factor as well). It's more of the devaluation of the brand that those two caused to Sega. By the time the Saturn was released, a lot of gamers were already burned by Sega's two add-on hardware and crummy software (lol FMV) that I don't think, regardless of the power of the Saturn, it would have been their first choice, especially with the N64 and the PS1 in the arena.

And the sad part is that the Saturn WAS an awesome piece of hardware, even though it was like the PS3 of its time (hardware that software engineers had to really work on to get the best effects). The guys at AM2 proved that the Saturn can churn out awesome 3D, and it was second to none when running 2D sprites. It's just really hard to get into; meanwhile, Sega's marketing were doing a stellar job fucking things up NA and EU side.

I think we've seen many times people are able to come back to a console if you can convince them to. Or, if that was the case, they could still go after whatever audience was buying into the N64/PS1.

32x and CD were were deadweights for a console on the way out. There was also nothing stopping SEGA from burying it. When Virtual Boy failed, did Nintendo keep the message going? No, they basically erased it from history.

Saturn was suppose to carry them for the next 5 years in an industry that was rapidly expanding. Between those two, how does not having a proper next gen launch not become more important when the gains are far more bigger for a console?
 
I have no doubt Sony delivered a heavy blow to any serious comeback by SEGA but I believe successful marketing can always be used to salvage or make a situation less worse.

Now the problem is how would SEGA have done it back then especially without any hindsight. I mentioned Sonic as one of the obvious things that SEGA still missed.

Sega's marketing sucked with Saturn. Eventually they tried to bring back the Sega scream, but it was too late. Consumers knew it was a dud, and weren't going to buy a Saturn over the red hot Playstation.
 
I think we've seen many times people are able to come back to a console if you can convince them to. Or, if that was the case, they could still go after whatever audience was buying into the N64/PS1.

32x and CD were were deadweights for a console on the way out. Saturn was suppose to carry them for the next 5 years in an industry that was rapidly expanding. Between those two, how does not having a proper next gen launch not become more important when the gains are far more bigger for a console?

Yep. Gotta wonder what was going on internally at Sega during those transitional years, would make for an amazing documentary.
 
Price and proper marketing can save nearly anything. Sega still had a highly marketable name at that time as well I believe, so it was possible. The surprise release was pretty crazy for the mass market though.
 
I think we've seen many times people are able to come back to a console if you can convince them to. Or, if that was the case, they could still go after whatever audience was buying into the N64/PS1.

32x and CD were were deadweights for a console on the way out. There was also nothing stopping SEGA from burying it. When Virtual Boy failed, did Nintendo keep the message going? No, they basically erased it from history.

Saturn was suppose to carry them for the next 5 years in an industry that was rapidly expanding. Between those two, how does not having a proper next gen launch not become more important when the gains are far more bigger for a console?

Because Nintendo management at that time knew their shit. Sega management, on the other hand, was in shambles. I think at that time, SoA and SoJ were in bad terms (after SoA upstaged what SoJ can do during the 16-bit generation). They couldn't sort out their internal bickering, much less the problem with the Saturn's reception with the public.
 
It was $100 more than Sony and the cross platform titles looked better on Sony. People caught on quickly.

Hmmm... Is the OP asking if history could be repeating itself with the Xbox One & PS4?
 
Just a quick point here. I see people knocking the Mega/Sega CD and throwing it in to the reasons that the Saturn failed. I don't think that's very fair for a couple of reasons. Firstly, unlike the 32x it wasn't positioned as a gateway into 32-bit gaming and then unceremoniously dumped after less than a year. Secondly, it had already been out for three years in the US and Japan before their respective launches of the Saturn. It was launched in Japan in 1991!

I've yet to meet or speak to a single person online or in real life who claimed to have avoided the Saturn because of the Sega CD. Most owners were pretty happy with the system, then and now. Unlike the case with the 32x, which buyers expected to have a future, anyone picking a Sega CD up in late '94 already knew what they were getting into.
 
Played so much Daytona USA. And I hate racing games. That was the shit though. And Fighters Megamix was awesome too. I loved the Saturn. If it only had a few more games it would've been more successful.
 
In America? Possibly. It had to play to the system's strengths instead of trying to be a system that Sega USA tried to be. It was a 2D powerhouse, not a 3D monster. Definitely not to say there wasn't any good 3D Games on the system, just it's not what it's designed to do.

As we've seen in the Dreamcast and modern era. Sonic isn't the amazing can do no wrong franchise.. the game would have had to done well. A lot of it also had to do with simply bringing out all the franchises that were waiting.

The RPGs like Shining Force 3-2 and 3-3, or even the EXCELLENT ports of the Capcom fighting games with the RAM cart that were terrible on the PS1 such as X-Men vs Street Fighter and Marvel Super Heroes vs Street Fighter. The PS1 ports I remember had no tag mechanics unless both sides were the same character or something.

Sakura Wars, many many many more excellent fighting games, Dragon Force 2, heck it was the only system that ever had Dungeons and Dragons beat em up until very recently the recent release. Rent a Hero, We would have also potentially had Soul Hackers early as well. Oh and some of the best shoot em up games out there. It has some niche selections sure, but it did those games well and more importantly right. If it played to those strengths, it may have also stopped that awkward phrase where SCEA put in tons of strange restrictions regarding 2D games and instead focused on allowing good games if they saw that it was working for a company like Sega.


So, yeah I think it could have been saved in America if they did it right.
 
Just a quick point here. I see people knocking the Mega/Sega CD and throwing it in to the reasons that the Saturn failed. I don't think that's very fair for a couple of reasons. Firstly, unlike the 32x it wasn't positioned as a gateway into 32-bit gaming and then unceremoniously dumped after less than a year. Secondly, it had already been out for three years in the US and Japan before their respective launches of the Saturn. It was launched in Japan in 1991!

I've yet to meet or speak to a single person online or in real life who claimed to have avoided the Saturn because of the Sega CD. Most owners were pretty happy with the system, then and now. Unlike the case with the 32x, which buyers expected to have a future, anyone picking a Sega CD up in late '94 already knew what they were getting into.

On hindsight, you are correct. It's the 32X that really did the damage. It's just that, going on what the gaming mags say at that time (and this was pre-Internet boom so basically, mags were the only thing we have into the industry), the Sega CD wasn't really that hot. Unless you consider "Plumbers Don't Wear Ties" hot. Dat skin showing.
 
I received the Sega Saturn as a gift at the tender age of six. The games I picked out for it were almost all terrible, because I was a kid going by the box art on a system with no quality control. A year later I got an N64 and my childhood changed forever.

It wasn't until long after the Saturn's lifespan that I discovered the console's actual gems, never bothered to buy any though. Truly a missed opportunity for me, as far as sitting on my ass and playing games go.
 
I always wanted one. Those CPS2 ports were great at the time and the best home conversion available.

I did get to play some of the bests for it. Nights, Fighting Viper, Guardian Heroes.
 
Well, if Sega of Japan didn't insist that Sega of America conceive and develop the 32X, the Saturn would have done a lot better (according to an interview I read in Retro Gamer with Tom Kalinske).

For 1996-me at the time, I didn't see a point in getting a Saturn when the 32X was just out; then, I didn't see the point in getting the 32X since the perception was that it was a Genesis add-on. When you have articles about what a pain hooking up the 32X is, it doesn't help Sega.

Looking back on the system now, Sega Saturn did 2D games very well and Panzer Dragoon is still amazing to play.
 
It could have been saved if the 32x didn't exist and the marketing and localization efforts had been better. It was Sega's best console in Japan, after all.

If they had built a better foundation and not rushed the launch, yeah, I think so.

Yeah basically. The US release of the Saturn was fundamentally flawed. They rushed to market instead of seeing what their competitors were up, and made no effort to turn the system around when it failed. They also should have waited it out.

Sega was full of bad decisions then. In that sense, the Saturn's hardware was like a symptom of a bigger problem.
 
I've said this before at much greater length, I'm sure, but in short, I think that to save the 32X, you really need to cancel the 32X and push back the US Saturn launch to the original September date. Also price-matching the PS1 would be a very good idea. And have better advertising. Do those things, and it'd still have probably finished in third for the generation if Sony still got Square and Enix (and thus Japan, after the Saturn's successful period there in 1995-1997 ended with FF7 and the DQ7 announcement), but it'd have done MUCH better than it did, no question.

Canning the Saturn alltogether and releasing a different, more powerful, and not as overly hard to program for, system in 1996 instead (with or without any of the above changes, apart from either canning or continuing to support the 32X through 1996-1997, no early abandonment once it was on the market), would probably have been an even better idea, but Sega really wanted hardware out in 1994 so they could match Sony's PS1 release date in Japan. Sega of Japan really, REALLY wanted to be successful in Japan, but that was so, so shortsighted, and led to them losing everything... I don't know if Sony could have been stopped, but I do know that what they did didn't work at all, unfortunately, even though the Saturn did have some great games.

Oh yeah, and regardless, THEY NEEDED A SONIC PLATFORMER! Yeah, Yuji Naka didn't want to, but Sega REALLY should have realized how vitally important Sonic was to the Saturn in the West. NiGHTS is a great game, and it did well, but it wasn't Sonic. The Western-developed Sonic X-Treme could have been a decent stand-in had it been finished, but they bungled that to death too, of course... but even though that game looked pretty good, even without all the bungling getting it done in 1996 would have been hard, and an actual Sonic Team one probably would have been even better. Finally, abandoning the Saturn at E3 1997 was a catastrophic mistake. When Stolar went out there and said "the Saturn is not our future", he essentially sealed its fate. Sure, Sega released games for the Saturn in the US for ay ear after that, but look at the sales numbers, and the almost complete lack of a holiday bump for the Saturn in 1997, quite unlike 1996. The Saturn was destined to be a third place failure for sure, by early 1997, but it could have lasted longer and been more credible opposition had Sega not given up on it in early 1997. Look at the US release library, too -- the Saturn actually did get ports of some major PS1 games in 1995-1996, but that mostly stopped in 1997, thanks to Sega giving up too early. With the changes above, the Saturn could have made it to the Dreamcast's launch, and maybe even pushed back the urgency of getting a DC out in 1998 so that Sega could have made that system a bit more powerful too, and released it in 1999/2000 instead of 1998/1999. And probably release it in the US first, too. Okay, that's another more drastic change... but just the basic level of that, keeping the Saturn alive until the DC released in the West in late 1999, was absolutely possible, had Sega not messed things up for itself in so many ways. One of Sega's biggest problems was that huge gap between the "Saturn is not our future" announcement at that E3 in June 1997 and the Dreamcast's release in the US about two and a quarter years later. Don't say that, keep pushing the Saturn, keep releasing games for it, and they could have gotten there I think. Of course I'd much rather see a fix that goes back to 1994 and does away with the 32X and then 1995's rushed Saturn launch, as that would have the chance to not just sell maybe a few million more Saturns (because by 1997 that probably was the best Sega could hope for in the US) but maybe a LOT more Saturns... but any of these would be better than what they did!


And that only begins to go through the list of Sega's mistakes in the '90s. The length of the list is kind of amazing, honestly. But even without the more drastic changes, yes, I think the Saturn could have been at least paritally "saved" in the West. Could it have finished first for the generation? I doubt it. But with, as I said at the beginning, no 32X and no bungled early Saturn launch, it would have done a lot better than it did, and with that maybe Sega wouldn't have decided to give up and let Bernie Stolar take over in 1997 (with his kill-Saturn plan at the top of the agenda), too.

Just a quick point here. I see people knocking the Mega/Sega CD and throwing it in to the reasons that the Saturn failed. I don't think that's very fair for a couple of reasons. Firstly, unlike the 32x it wasn't positioned as a gateway into 32-bit gaming and then unceremoniously dumped after less than a year. Secondly, it had already been out for three years in the US and Japan before their respective launches of the Saturn. It was launched in Japan in 1991!

I've yet to meet or speak to a single person online or in real life who claimed to have avoided the Saturn because of the Sega CD. Most owners were pretty happy with the system, then and now. Unlike the case with the 32x, which buyers expected to have a future, anyone picking a Sega CD up in late '94 already knew what they were getting into.
You are absolutely correct: it's the 32X and Saturn that killed Sega's image, and popularity, in the West. The Sega CD absolutely did not do that during its life. Its image problems, that it was all about those often-terrible FMV games, is something retroactive, not something from the time -- a lot of people then DID want FMV games, after all.

The Sega CD's other main problem is that Sega of Japan abandoned it early -- essentially, Sega of Japan game development for the Sega CD started in 1992 and ended in 1994, and they never put the degree of focus on the system that it needed. Without the 32X the Sega CD would surely have done better later on as a result... so yeah, that's one more thing to blame the 32X, and Sega's long-lasting focus on releasing new hardware on a regular basis, on.

On hindsight, you are correct. It's the 32X that really did the damage. It's just that, going on what the gaming mags say at that time (and this was pre-Internet boom so basically, mags were the only thing we have into the industry), the Sega CD wasn't really that hot. Unless you consider "Plumbers Don't Wear Ties" hot. Dat skin showing.
In 1992-1995, people wanted live-action-video FMV games. That was the main thing the Sega CD sold on in the West, and there was a significant audience for it, enough to sell millions of systems. It really is the 32X that did the damage; the Sega CD's main problems were that it was killed off early thanks to the 32X and Saturn releases (not its fault), and that by 1995 the live-action-video genre was fading in popularity and Sega had nothing to replace it with, at least not on the Sega CD. But despite that, overall it was a moderate success. The system died too soon, but even so, it did have three years of support in the US, which isn't TOO bad for an addon, and it had a triple-digit game count as well.

It's the 32X and bungled early Saturn launches that were the real problems. The 32X had a short life, few games, and really ruined Sega's image with a lot of people... and then their bungling the Saturn finished off what shreds of that image remained. And then people unfairly bashed the Sega CD too, even though it really hadn't been part of the problem, not until Sega released MORE addons on top of it. The first addon, the Sega CD, though, was okay.
 
While I know Stolar himself wasn't the only issue with Sega (he is, again, more a symptom of a bigger problem), I still wonder if he did anything beneficial for his time in the gaming industry.
 
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