Tom Nook Sawyer
Member
Releasing classified info shouldn't be something done on a lark.
...and it wasn't
Releasing classified info shouldn't be something done on a lark.
1. WP exposes PRISM using Snowden info. Article eventually gets them the Pullitzer.
3. WP says today Snowden shouldn't be pardoned because exposing PRISM was of no public interest.
You really don't see any issue here?
If you are going to go through the effort of stealing government secrets, committing treason, and betraying your employer you should at least have some sort of groundbreaking info to release.
His releases were mostly non-events and info that everyone knew was probably there, even if it wasn't known explicitly.
It wasn't until after Snowden that "the government is spying on us!" wasn't considered tinfoil-hat wearing conspiracy nonsense.His releases were mostly non-events and info that everyone knew was probably there, even if it wasn't known explicitly.
This is honestly one of the strangest and saddest posts I've read on GAF.Assange is a massive scumbag.
This guy is just a regular scumbag.
If you are going to go through the effort of stealing government secrets, committing treason, and betraying your employer you should at least have some sort of groundbreaking info to release.
His releases were mostly non-events and info that everyone knew was probably there, even if it wasn't known explicitly.
Its almost as if this is a false dichotomy! I dislike snowden for the same reasons that the post claims. He revealed legit US operations that did not violate constitutional protections, did so by deception, hid in Russia
Not to mention, expecting something to be probably true, and having the evidence that proves it, is very different. Downplaying the role of evidence reeks of anti-intellectualism.The existence and extent of the largest known covert surveillance program isn't groundbreaking enough?!?
Only fringe conspiracy theorists could claim having such prior "knowledge".
Uh, I read the WP article and Greenwald does not misrepresent it. The WP article is full of horseshit, including the "oh he should do like other whistleblowers and go to jail for his beliefs" (like seriously? fuck you WP) and not-so-subtly insinuates that he's supportive of Putin by being stuck in Russia against his will. And yes, to your question, they do say this:Did you read the thread, or the original WaPost article. Apparently not.
Where did they say the bolded.
Here is the link again:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...dc7_story.html
Where did they say the bolded.
Glenn is a fucking hack, you can't take anything he says without double checking it.
It's funny that this opinion piece downplays the importance and sketchiness of Prism when WP itself won a Pulitzer prize and even bragged about it:The complication is that Mr. Snowden did more than that. He also pilfered, and leaked, information about a separate overseas NSA Internet-monitoring program, PRISM, that was both clearly legal and not clearly threatening to privacy. [...] What higher cause did that serve?
Again, the WP can get fucked.The Post’s coverage of NSA shattered the secrecy of a clandestine government program called PRISM, exposed the NSA’s repeated violations of its own privacy rules and more, bringing to light a discussion about the sometimes uneasy balance between individual privacy and national security.
True, and that is probably the most significant blow against Obama's legacy. Very disappointing in an otherwise great US president.I always find it so fascinating how hard people are pushing Obama to pardon him. The same Obama that has cracked down on whistle blowers harder than basically every other President before him.
Obama is not going to bat for Snowden.
Yes, it's BS. Every single time they mention him being in Russia they have to name-drop Putin, too. Classic word association/propaganda tactic. Reminds me of the time where pundits would name-drop 9/11 and Iraq in the same sentence repeatedly (while being careful to not explicitly say 9/11 was caused by Iraq/Iraqis), to the point where later surveys revealed many Americans believed Iraq was involved in 9/11...Hold the fuck up. He is not HIDING in Russia. he is STUCK in Russia because the US revoked his passport. He wanted to go to Latin America.
I'm sick of this propagandistic lie that everyone just accepts as fact because "fuck Putin, right?".
Dumb question.Where is the discourse?
Interesting analogy.You can't be the surveillance Rosa Parks without facing the consequences.
This is not grounded is reality.If you are going to go through the effort of stealing government secrets, committing treason, and betraying your employer you should at least have some sort of groundbreaking info to release.
His releases were mostly non-events and info that everyone knew was probably there, even if it wasn't known explicitly.
Did you read the thread, or the original WaPost article. Apparently not.
Where did they say the bolded.
Here is the link again:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...04d448-7c2e-11e6-ac8e-cf8e0dd91dc7_story.html
Where did they say the bolded.
Glenn is a fucking hack, you can't take anything he says without double checking it.
[Defenders argue] rather, that Mr. Snowden’s noble purposes, and the policy changes his “whistle-blowing” prompted, justified his actions. Specifically, he made the documents public through journalists, including reporters working for The Post, enabling the American public to learn for the first time [about domestic metadata collection]. The program was a stretch, if not an outright violation, of federal surveillance law, and posed risks to privacy. Congress and the president eventually responded with corrective legislation. It’s fair to say we owe these necessary reforms to Mr. Snowden.
The complication is that Mr. Snowden did more than that. He also pilfered, and leaked, information about a separate overseas NSA Internet-monitoring program, PRISM, that was both clearly legal and not clearly threatening to privacy.
His releases were mostly non-events and info that everyone knew was probably there, even if it wasn't known explicitly.
Dumb question.
Interesting analogy.
I'm sure the situation would have been different, had he faced trial in US.
Congrats on being a victim of propaganda.That's the reputation you'll get for sitting in Putin's lap.
How is he associating with either? Snowden criticized Assange, and Greenwald... wrote about him?Associating with asswipes like Assange and Greenwald doesn't help either.
People believe he's a good guy.I always find it so fascinating how hard people are pushing Obama to pardon him. The same Obama that has cracked down on whistle blowers harder than basically every other President before him.
Obama is not going to bat for Snowden.
The Washington Post article says:
The language like "owe", "enabling the American public", etc suggests they feel the metadata disclosures are a "public service". Now, as a point of contrast, they argue:
It is common in rhetoric to concede a small point in order to bolster your objectivity and reliability when making a broader point. This use of contrast is pretty standard, and it is generally assumed to imply some level of negation between the points.
I think it would be reasonable to conclude that the WaPo article is advancing the argument that disclosing domestic metadata collection was a public service, while disclosing PRISM was not, even if the article does not use the words "public service".
The person you're quoting omits the rest of the article (that Snowden shouldn't be pardoned owing to what they allege are harms caused by his disclosures, and other points that don't rest on whether exposing PRISM was a public service)--so I think it is reasonable to say that the poster and Greenwald are simplifying their argument, maybe even to the point of mischaracterizing it, but the bolded quote you thought was Greenwald's mischaracterization strikes me as a fair read of the article.
Not to mention, expecting something to be probably true, and having the evidence that proves it, is very different. Downplaying the role of evidence reeks of anti-intellectualism.
Uh, I read the WP article and Greenwald does not misrepresent it. The WP article is full of horseshit, including the "oh he should do like other whistleblowers and go to jail for his beliefs" (like seriously? fuck you WP) and not-so-subtly insinuates that he's supportive of Putin by being stuck in Russia against his will. And yes, to your question, they do say this:
It's funny that this opinion piece downplays the importance and sketchiness of Prism when WP itself won a Pulitzer prize and even bragged about it:
Again, the WP can get fucked.
Edit:
True, and that is probably the most significant blow against Obama's legacy. Very disappointing in an otherwise great US president.
Yes, it's BS. Every single time they mention him being in Russia they have to name-drop Putin, too. Classic word association/propaganda tactic. Reminds me of the time where pundits would name-drop 9/11 in Iraq in the same sentence repeatedly (while being careful to not explicitly say 9/11 was caused by Iraq/Iraqis), to the point where later surveys revealed many Americans believed Iraq was involved in 9/11...
Yeah, he would have been destroyed in a kangaroo court.
I don't think public opinion on Snowden is largely negative. I think public opinion on Snowden is largely apathetic. I doubt I could find more than a handful of people who know what the fuck Prism is if I went and polled random people in my city. The public flat out doesn't care. Which is depressing.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...en-unpopular-at-home-a-hero-abroad-poll-finds
For his efforts, about 64 percent of Americans familiar with Snowden hold a negative opinion of him, according to KRC Research poll results shared with U.S. News. Thirty-six percent hold a positive opinion, with just 8 percent holding a very positive opinion.
The survey was commissioned by the American Civil Liberties Union, which provides legal representation to Snowden, who received asylum in Russia after the U.S. canceled his passport.
The ACLU found this isn't the case
What propaganda? I think it was in 2014 when he had a chance to question Putin on mass surveillance on Russian national TV. When given that chance he asked him a laughable, softball question and gave Putin a chance to shine. This is in a country where they jail you forCongrats on being a victim of propaganda.
"The public flat out doesn't care": That's the point. You can't initiate societal change in US from (Putin's) Moscow....
His releases were mostly non-events and info that everyone knew was probably there, even if it wasn't known explicitly.
Good video, thanks for sharing. Kind of upsetting to be honest. Because I am pretty sure the government has a photo album of my nudes.Government Surveillance: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver (HBO)
Someone thought he was the founder of Wikileaks if I remember the video correctly.
Well, believe it because I happen to be one of those people. You will excuse me if I don't hold the "rights" contained in an ancient document to be totally sacrosanct and inviolable.
We have laws that set procedures on how to change those rights stated by that ancient document.
What Krejlooc said."The public flat out doesn't care": That's the point. You can't initiate societal change in US from (Putin's) Moscow....
He was stuck in Russia against his will. And you blame him for not openly defying Putin, when you yourself comment on how authoritarian they are? Yeah fuck him for thinking about his own personal safety right? I mean he's still been pretty critical of Russia on Twitter and in interviews, but blaming him for not openly and directly defying Putin in person is laughable.What propaganda? I think it was in 2014 when he had a chance to question Putin on mass surveillance on Russian national TV. When given that chance he asked him a laughable, softball question and gave Putin a chance to shine. This is in a country where they jail you forlikingsharing shit on FB. He's literally in Putin's lap.
LOL why would I give clicks to a propaganda outlet like RT?Kremlin lakey Assange announced himself that he steered Snowden towards Russia. Google "assange snowden russia" for an RT link.
...........Sorry but someone who signs on for a security clearance fully aware of all the repercussions of leaking information gets what they deserve when they leak.
And how do you apply those laws and procedures to a surveillance system that makes even acknowledging it's existence treasonous?
Nor could he initiate societal change in the US from a prison cell after he would have been railroaded and buried by the US government.
What Krejlooc said.
He was stuck in Russia against his will. And you blame him for not openly defying Putin, when you yourself comment on how authoritarian they are? Yeah fuck him for thinking about his own personal safety right? I mean he's still been pretty critical of Russia on Twitter and in interviews, but blaming him for not openly and directly defying Putin in person is laughable.
LOL why would I give clicks to a propaganda outlet like RT?
...........
Even if he was buried by the US gov, he could potentially still have a better chance to promote change.
Look at Nelson Mandela
So Snowden should have sacrificed himself and stayed in prison for 30 years. And you portray "being stranded in" as "chose to run to".Even if he was buried by the US gov, he could potentially still have a better chance to promote change. Look at Nelson Mandela, who spent almost 30 years in prison only to come out and transform South Africa. Instead he chose to run to US' most dangerous adversary.
the ones who should be charged and punished/rehabilitated are the ones responsible for mass surveillance of everyone
Snowden single-handedly opened up American discourse on mass surveillance, with ripple effects that resulted in worldwide scrutiny of governmental surveillance efforts. These are incredibly important issues and I find it hard to believe that people think he's a traitor who deserves to be in jail for trying to blow the whistle on what was clearly a violation of our constitutional rights.
Even if he was buried by the US gov, he could potentially still have a better chance to promote change. Look at Nelson Mandela, who spent almost 30 years in prison only to come out and transform South Africa. Instead he chose to run to US' most dangerous adversary.
No he wouldn't have. That's what being buried is. Literally nobody would have ever heard from him again, ever.
You mean a guy who wasn't buried by the US government?
2) Nothing would have happened to him. He's of great value to the Kremlin. The way he behaved there just goes to show what a colossal coward he is.
Even if he was buried by the US gov, he could potentially still have a better chance to promote change. Look at Nelson Mandela, who spent almost 30 years in prison only to come out and transform South Africa. Instead he chose to run to US' most dangerous adversary.
I always find it so fascinating how hard people are pushing Obama to pardon him. The same Obama that has cracked down on whistle blowers harder than basically every other President before him.
Obama is not going to bat for Snowden.
the idea is to make the push now because obama can do more things like this without having to worry about political blowback, while both candidates for president have been unequivocal about their belief that he should go to prison (more likely trump would just order someone to assassinate him or something). plus the movie is coming out and it's back in the public eye.
it's not a good shot, but it's their only shot.
I'm honestly not too keen on him being pardoned for anything. Maybe I just have an entirely different view of what he actually did and the reasons he did them.
Exactly. The fuck is this bullshit?
No he wouldn't have. That's what being buried is. Literally nobody would have ever heard from him again, ever.
You mean a guy who wasn't buried by the US government?
That's what heroes(tm) do though, don't they? Don't call him a hero then.So Snowden should have sacrificed himself and stayed in prison for 30 years. And you portray "being stranded in" as "chose to run to".
Un-fucking-believable.
Sorry but someone who signs on for a security clearance fully aware of all the repercussions of leaking information gets what they deserve when they leak. If someone without a clearance had uncovered the program it would be another story.
Is Chelsea Manning completely buried? She is giving interviews for instance, or guess what? She's tweeting. I imagine the suicide attempt has more to do with her being transgender in prison.
Is Snowden better known to the American public? In relative terms of course, given the ~10 years between the two cases.
Either way, sitting in Moscow and having the traitor / spy label attached to him won't do jackshit to convince the US public. And if that wasn't his reasoning for stealing the files, what else was?
That's what heroes(tm) do though, don't they? Don't call him a hero then.
He chose to run to US' geopolitical adversaries, first China then Russia. This is not how you change the US public's perception. He changed round about nothing on that front.
He's had more success in changing the perception of US abroad, especially in Europe. Something that mostly serves said geopolitical adversaries.
To me it's clear that he's either a Russian agent / bought off by Russia or he's Kremlin's useful idiot who ended up where he is chance (& Wikileaks' influence), with the latter being a more realistic scenario at this point. In neither case did his actions achieve any lasting impact.
The best chance the public has at finding out about systemic abuses of power is through the actions of whistleblowers. In the case of Snowden, it's pretty clear that he was acting in the public interest and the fact that the NSA's metadata collection program has since been shut down is testament to that. Yet you argue in favour of throwing the book at him? WTF kind of bone-headed opinion is that?
Snowden is a coward now? I'm pretty sure a coward wouldn't have risked to become a whistleblower in the first place.1) -
2) Nothing would have happened to him. He's of great value to the Kremlin. The way he behaved there just goes to show what a colossal coward he is.
3) You really shouldn't. It's just what Assange said in an interview with the The Times. The RT link is just the first result when searching for it.