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[Coriolanus]

Snowden is a private citizen, he wouldn' be in military jail and not in solitary. This is an comparison that isn't based in fact

fuck does military jail has to do with anything? did those get a license to torture people again?

and yes, assuming that whistleblowers will be persecuted is no great stretch. Did we already forget about Binney? Or Drake?

 

[Alo0oy]

It's very easy to see why *some* left leaning people are suddenly on the far right when it comes to Snowden.

To them, they see Russia and America as a black and white issue, and he hid in Russia so he betrayed Murica. Get over yourselves, both governments are evil and have done some heinous things, the world will never move past this tribal mentality when even the left can be reliably tribal instead of hold their own government responsible.

In an alternate dimension where he hid in France or something, the same people against him would be defending him.

 

[uncelestial]

Snowden single-handedly opened up American discourse on mass surveillance, with ripple effects that resulted in worldwide scrutiny of governmental surveillance efforts. These are incredibly important issues and I find it hard to believe that people think he's a traitor who deserves to be in jail for trying to blow the whistle on what was clearly a violation of our constitutional rights.

While I instinctually feel that your avatar must somehow, in some way, violate one of my constitutional rights (I just haven't identified which): this.

 

[Usobuko]

the world will never move past this tribal mentality when even the left can be reliably tribal instead of hold their own government responsible.

Aye.

 

[Suikoguy]

It's very easy to see why *some* left leaning people are suddenly on the far right when it comes to Snowden.

To them, they see Russia and America as a black and white issue, and he hid in Russia so he betrayed Murica. Get over yourselves, both governments are evil and have done some heinous things, the world will never move past this tribal mentality when even the left can be reliably tribal instead of hold their own government responsible.

In an alternate dimension where he hid in France or something, the same people against him would be defending him.

Great way to put words in people's mouths.

Maybe it's because he used very little filter as to what information he leaked. What gives him the right to release information on foreign covert intelligence activities?

 

[Phantast2k]

Comparing Chelsea Manning, and the attention she gets in prison, to Edward Snowden is idiotic. Nobody talks about what Chelsea Manning leaked, nor does she tweet about that stuff. The conversation has shifted, what she is in jail for is not why she is discussed.



But sitting in a prison in the US, labeled a traitor and spy, is going to do something?



No, you're describing a Martyr, not a hero.



It serves the world, because the US spies on everybody.



It's clear to me that you don't actually care about PRISM or what Snowden revealed at all, and only are after blood for the guy because he is "an enemy" according to the government that spies on you.

1) As I said, "in relative terms": Her case is dated compared to Snowden's, the material is less global, less controversial and some of it less compatible with mainstream audiences (attack chopper footage). What I wanted to showcase, is that being buried doesn't really preclude you from publicizing your thoughts & media appearances.

You lot always present it as literally being sealed off in permanent solitary confinement. There's also things like presidential paroles and term reductions for good behavior.

2) We won't know Snowden's impact with a trial / from jail since he's fucked off to Putin.

3) Not at all. Aren't martyrs supposed to die in the process? Isn't Mandela a hero? You do understand that suffering for your cause can advance said cause? Would Mandela have the same impact in South Africa while chilling in a different apartheid state (one that is opposed to South Africa)?

4) And continues to do so

5) Again, almost nothing has changed. His effect was almost nullified by him climbing into Putin's ass.

/I won't be able to reply in the coming hours

 

[Besthelboy]

Thank God for what Snowden revealed to Americans and the world. Just because some people don't care every single part of their private life is being captured and recorded by the Government doesn't mean I don't, I've changed many habits that I was previously being irresponsible with. Hope he comes back to a fair trial eventually.

Edit: Also think it's ironic that an American whistleblower has to seek asylum in Russia of all countries because his passport was revoked in the airport while trying to get a different country, Russia grants that asylum and treats him fairly. If a Russian citizen exposed the spying and illegal collection of information about their citizens and that citizen looked for asylum in America, it would be granted and Americans would consider him a hero to the Russian citizens and the world for exposing their wrong doings.

 

[Suikoguy]

Thank God for what Snowden revealed to Americans and the world. Just because some people don't care every single part of their private life is being captured and recorded by the Government doesn't mean I don't, I've changed many habits that I was previously being irresponsible with. Hope he comes back to a fair trial eventually.

He won't, it's a huge risk since some of what he released would not be covered under whistleblower provisions (even if they were working as intended).

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Boy thats a weird way of saying you're a bad person.



It's a fucking disgrace that's what it is.

Yep, keep thinking what this guy did he did entirely for the greater good and there's absolutely no chance at all he may have stole, and then sold, other kinds of information to god knows who. The trick when it comes to things like this is to convince everyone that because he stole and released information that could be seen as something that is good for the public to be aware of, there isn't also a similar - or even greater chance - that he also stole and passed on information that could be very dangerous and actually turn out to be to our disadvantage.

It's all too easy to only look at the perceived good that he wants people out there to see, but there is no way of really knowing what else this guy might have done, things he perhaps knows the federal government can't - and won't - ever talk about.

 

[xevis]

Public Interest in some of his leaks, not all of them.
That's why this case is complicated.

You're telling me an invasive data collection program operated by the US government and with the aid of the US' largest tech companies, a program with the ability to spy on anyone, one that is operated entirely in secret and overseen by a court that meets in secret and whose rulings are secret -- that isn't in the public interest?

LOL.

Snowden has done US citizens a huge favour by exposing this bullshit. Not to mention that the repercussions of these leaks have caused people the world over to question their own governments involvement in similar programs. The dude is a straight up capital-H Hero.

 

[Suikoguy]

You're telling me an invasive data collection program operated by the US government and with the aid of the US' largest tech companies, a program with the ability to spy on anyone, one that is operated entirely in secret and overseen by a court that meets in secret and whose rulings are secret -- that isn't in the public interest?

LOL.

Snowden has done US citizens a huge favour by exposing this bullshit. Not to mention that the repercussions of these leaks have caused people the world over to question their own governments involvement in similar programs. The dude is a straight up capital-H Hero.

I don't think you will find many who disagree with you. But he released other information and that's what i'm referring too.

If that was all he released, the domestic operations which by many readings would be considered unconstitutional, there would not be much to argue about. We would probably not even have this thread, since I think you could probably flip the polling on the issue from where it is now.

As I previously stated: What gives him the right to be the judge as to what foreign intelligence operations should be made public?

 

[adamsappel]

I don't think you will find many who disagree with you. But he released other information and that's what i'm referring too.

If that was all he released, the domestic operations which by many readings would be considered unconstitutional, there would not be much to argue about. We would probably not even have this thread, since I think you could probably flip the polling on the issue from where it is now.

As I previously stated: What gives him the right to be the judge as to what foreign intelligence operations should be made public?

Why do you grant him the right to have exposed the domestic spying? Why are you granting all international spying as sacrosanct?

 

[Tom Nook Sawyer]

As I previously stated: What gives him the right to be the judge as to what foreign intelligence operations should be made public?

He didn't judge; he passed it along to journalists who then distributed the parts they deemed applicable

 

[Stumpokapow]

As I previously stated: What gives him the right to be the judge as to what foreign intelligence operations should be made public?

Nothing, which is why he didn't make them public--he disclosed them to a small number of reputable journalists and urged them to use their own best discretion as to whether to make them public. What gave them the right to be the judge as to what should be made public? I dunno, ask the Washington Post.

 

[Familienoberhauptvogel]

I wish my country had the backbone to shelter Snowden. Nah gotta grovel before the USA who we now know thanks to Snowden actively spied on pretty much everyone and everything including trade negotiations between us.

So yeah, fuck the Washington post and fuck the Snowden haters.

I don't think you will find many who disagree with you. But he released other information and that's what i'm referring too.

If that was all he released, the domestic operations which by many readings would be considered unconstitutional, there would not be much to argue about. We would probably not even have this thread, since I think you could probably flip the polling on the issue from where it is now.

As I previously stated: What gives him the right to be the judge as to what foreign intelligence operations should be made public?

What gives the NSA the right to spy on long standing stabile allies and their citizens?

 

[Besthelboy]

I don't get why people think Russia is so much worse and Snowden is a coward for "hiding" in Russia (HE'S STUCK THERE). America is an oppressive country, look at the our disregard for civilian life in the Middle East and around the world - even in our own country, we tortured, we have blacksites, we have and still use Guantanamo Bay. We ally with other oppressive regimes like Israel and Saudi Arabia, we spy on our citizens, look at the way the Government treats minorities and people of color, we have mass incarcerations. Our congressman and senators do whatever the PMCs want them to do which leads to the loss of more innocent life, police brutality runs wild with innocent people of color getting killed daily, we've had racist and oppressive policies since the inception of this country and for heavens sake 40-42% of the people are voting for a fascist.

We are not a beacon of light, we are a facade - Snowden showed only a small part of the massive reform needed in this country. He's not a traitor, he's trying to help the country's citizens.

 

[xevis]

As I previously stated: What gives him the right to be the judge as to what foreign intelligence operations should be made public?

What gives any whistleblower the right to disclose confidential information? The answer ultimately comes down to their own moral compass. There is no way to take on such abuses of power without going outside the system that is responsible for them.

 

[darkistheway]

Great way to put words in people's mouths.

Maybe it's because he used very little filter as to what information he leaked. What gives him the right to release information on foreign covert intelligence activities?

Dear lord. I really hope you stop for a minute once you realize that you are wrong.

 

[Suikoguy]

That's one of the core issues, does public interest extend beyond the borders of the country someone works for in such a capacity to have access to such information?

In the current global climate, I don't think so. As i'd wager every single country has similar foreign intelligence gathering (which will vary depending on the size of the country, and their global interests), and would prosecute anyone willing to leak that information.

 

[andrerobot]

Yep, keep thinking what this guy did he did entirely for the greater good and there's absolutely no chance at all he may have stole, and then sold, other kinds of information to god knows who. The trick when it comes to things like this is to convince everyone that because he stole and released information that could be seen as something that is good for the public to be aware of, there isn't also a similar - or even greater chance - that he also stole and passed on information that could be very dangerous and actually turn out to be to our disadvantage.

It's all too easy to only look at the perceived good that he wants people out there to see, but there is no way of really knowing what else this guy might have done, things he perhaps knows the federal government can't - and won't - ever talk about.

Do you have any evidence to support your suspicions? Why would he even put himself under the spotlight by going public?

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Snowden is a coward now? I'm pretty sure a coward wouldn't have risked to become a whistleblower in the first place.

No, you see, unless he's willing to martyrize himself by spending 30 years in prison and/or possibly dying horribly, he's a coward and not a true hero.

Nothing, which is why he didn't make them public--he disclosed them to a small number of reputable journalists and urged them to use their own best discretion as to whether to make them public. What gave them the right to be the judge as to what should be made public? I dunno, ask the Washington Post.

Yup. For which Pulitzer prize they proudly bragged about.

 

[Cocaloch]

That's one of the core issues, does public interest extend beyond the borders of the country someone works for in such a capacity to have access to such information?

In the current global climate, I don't think so. As i'd wager every single country has similar foreign intelligence gathering (which will vary depending on the size of the country, and their global interests), and would prosecute anyone willing to leak that information.

So because the government of most countries are terrible, it's okay that they are terrible. That's some logic. Realpolitik is about utility not morality; that's the entire point. You don't get to have your cake and eat it too.