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[Berordn]

Nintendo has had some great D-Pads in the past. They sacrificed the D-Pad in order to promote a gimmick that most people won't even use.

I'm actually curious how much of the market actually still uses the D-Pad over analog on current controllers.

Gonna be weird for a couple virtual console games, but I feel like the market has largely moved past it as a primary control option. The last retail release I played that actually used it was probably New Super Mario Bros. U.

 

[Regiruler]

If they did that they wouldn't be able to push the whole "1 half = 1 controller" for multiplayer games since a D-Pad couldn't be used as 4 buttons.

That's bullshit. Each direction would be a button. Diagonal to press two buttons at once. Nobody presses buttons on the opposite sides simultaneously (and no game is stupid enough to require it outside of maybe devil may cry 4 dante).

 

[Com Truise]

No. Everything must stay the same! Nintendo must focus on hardcore gamers who mostly play fighting games. The left stick is the worst way to control ever. D-pad for life <3

Dude. Nintendo is the company that needs a D-pad on their device the most. Have fun playing their entire NES and SNES VC library and their new 2D platformers with a stick and face buttons.

 

[heringer]

When I'm using a D-Pad, these days is mostly with rhythm games, where its function is analogous to the standard face buttons on the controller, hence why I don't usually rest my thumb in the middle.



I'm not saying that, I'm asking prople to elaborate on why they have concerns, and so far the thread's been quite informative on that front.

Ok, that's fair.

Listen to this, beginning at 6:18:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8QWRB2UTCs

 

[Strictly]

Nintendo 2D platformers are one of the major reasons I am buying a Switch. This means I am practically forced to buy a Pro controller, as the Joycon would be a terrible method.

What this means, is that the Switch is not fit for purpose straight out of the box. They're going to make a killing on peripherals and I kind of think they partly intended it this way (the prices of those peripherals also confirms the point).

 

[Dierce]

I feel that it needs a D--Pad. I don't understand how people can overlook how flawed the Switch's design is. It is as if calling it out is an insult to their childhood.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

Some gamers like to use D-pads for 2D platforms, fighting games, or twitch action games like Bayonetta. I couldn't play Thumper with an analog stick for example

'Small sacrifice" to you maybe, but it's pretty annoying and off-putting to some gamers.


And lol at "Good on Nintendo" for not putting it in...That defense force knows no bounds.

Yeah seriously, this is ridiculous. The defense force is so over the top sometimes.

People waiting for a revision of this dont understand how a joycon works... They want you to be able to use each joycon as a seperate controller if you hold it horizontally. Thats why its 4 seperate buttons

Knock it off.

Of course people know this. It's easy to ridicule your opponents but don't act like people are idiots who can't tell the obvious. Just because you understand why something is the way it is, doesn't mean you like it or agree with it.

OP asked why people dislike the d-pad, people answered. Simple as that.

No. Everything must stay the same! Nintendo must focus on hardcore gamers who mostly play fighting games. The left stick is the worst way to control ever. D-pad for life <3

Jesus. GAF used to be more mature than this.

 

[ZAMtendo]

My main reason for buying the Pro Controller.

 

[Majmun]

I understand that a lot of people on Gaf don't have any friends but you have to see the mass appeal of having the Switch come with 2 controllers. The pro controller exists for the hardcore audience that demands a d-pad if you feel you desperately need it (which you don't).

Yeah, because all Switch games are going to be multiplayer games that you can play with your friends.

You're talking about a small hardcore market, but the market that is going to play the Switch outside in the park with friends is going to be even smaller...

 

[Rodin]

The day DKCR3 drops is going to be an expensive day.

Edit: Wait, nevermind. I forgot Tropical Freeze is like the one 2D platformer where analog controls actually work. Money in the bank!

Tbh i've been using the analog stick too in platformers since NSMBWii and i never had any issue.

this is a d-pad

Nintendo is pushing the 4-circle abomination as a "d-pad" because of the "switch" gimmick, unfortunately.

Local multiplayer is a gimmick?

 

[Revolutionary]

I understand that a lot of people on Gaf don't have any friends but you have to see the mass appeal of having the Switch come with 2 controllers. The pro controller exists for the hardcore audience that demands a d-pad if you feel you desperately need it (which you don't).

Technically it's more like half of a controller, though. No one refers to the Wiimote as a complete controller - the Nunchuck makes it one.

However, Nintendo has you by the balls and has you thinking half a controller is worth $50 fucking dollars by itself. It's amusing, to say the least.

Edit: That said, yes, everyone understands the benefit of having "two" controllers in the box. No one is arguing that. The argument is that it's detrimental to controls.

 

[Omnistalgic]

I'm actually curious how much of the market actually still uses the D-Pad over analog on current controllers.

Gonna be weird for a couple virtual console games, but I feel like the market has largely moved past it as a primary control option. The last retail release I played that actually used it was probably New Super Mario Bros. U.

eh...probably more than people think as Indy games and classic titles are still popular, a D-pad is almost as iconic as some of Nintendo's biggest franchises. My mother-in law for example would feel much more comfortable with a D-pad rather than a analog stick.

It's definitely a trade-off. Not everyone is going to agree with it, but it shouldn't end up being a big deal.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

But, I mean, you basically have to do this already for diagonal movement. Why is pressing down two directions on a traditional D-Pad so much different from pressing two buttons at once?

The speed and accuracy with which you can move between directions. Try doing button presses for Hadoukens

 

[RM8]

Nintendo are saving people from needing to buy a whole extra controller for multiplayer. Gaf clearly doesn't understand the trade-off, there's threads like this every week. You need to look out of the echo chamber and realise the value an extra controller adds to the console.

The GAF crowd is literally the only reason products like WiiU and Vita had any sales, though. We don't actually know if the joycons will be this massive Wii-like hit that Kimishima expects. If they're not, it turns out they're also sucky for some kinds of games... that Nintendo is famous for.

 

[schlynch]

No. Everything must stay the same! Nintendo must focus on hardcore gamers who mostly play fighting games. The left stick is the worst way to control ever. D-pad for life <3

It's not just fighting games. A lot of genre/games can't be properly played with just one JoyCon. It's basically half a controller. So in the end, for the perfect multiplayer experience like you called it, you will need two Pro Controller anyway.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Nintendo are saving people from needing to buy a whole extra controller for multiplayer. Gaf clearly doesn't understand the trade-off, there's threads like this every week. You need to look out of the echo chamber and realise the value an extra controller adds to the console.

It's a trade off though, meaning something was sacrificed, and that's a traditional D-pad that some people like. I don't get why you need to defend it so much? Some people won't care, some people will. I see nothing wrong with anyone taking either position on it.

And yea, we get why Nintendo did it, and it may prove to be prudent on their part. Its just discussion about something that's not in everyone's hands yet.

 

[heringer]

Tbh i've been using the analog stick too in platformers since NSMBWii and i never had any issue.


Local multiplayer is a gimmick?

Haven't you heard? Everything related to the Switch is now a gimmick.

 

[nynt9]

I don't care at all about the individual joycons being able to be used as controllers as I will literally never make use of that scenario, and I doubt most games will either. So it's a stupid compromise to me that the left joycon needs to be usable on its own. I would much rather have a d-pad. The argument that it can be used for a few games in local co-op is not a meaningful counter. Also by many accounts holding the individual joycons as a controller seems to be uncomfortable anyway.

 

[Majmun]

Nintendo are saving people from needing to buy a whole extra controller for multiplayer. Gaf clearly doesn't understand the trade-off, there's threads like this every week. You need to look out of the echo chamber and realise the value an extra controller adds to the console.

You'll need two analoge sticks in many multiplayer games as well.

Joy-con concept is half-baked, really.

 

[spookyfish]

I kinda wanted to try out the boomerang controller.

I did, too. I didn't think it looked that bad.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

You're not understanding. The whole point is that I don't need to buy a $50 controller. 2 players can play with what comes in the box. I'm saving a purchase.

Maybe you're the one not understanding?

You think I need to buy 2 pro-controllers to play Mario Kart with my girlfriend for it to be perfect? Hahaha.

Dude, why are you being so aggressive. He didn't even mention Mario Kart. People are actually trying to help you understand but you're just being a jerk about it, man.

 

[family_guy]

I'm actually curious how much of the market actually still uses the D-Pad over analog on current controllers.

Gonna be weird for a couple virtual console games, but I feel like the market has largely moved past it as a primary control option. The last retail release I played that actually used it was probably New Super Mario Bros. U.

There's a large indie market of 2D games that use the D-Pad primarily.

 

[Baleoce]

You'll need two analoge sticks in many multiplayer games as well.

Joy-con concept is half-baked, really.

I was extremely surprised when the joycons were initially shown and they didn't have the New3DS-style nubs at least.

 

[Novocaine]

Yes, they should have made the Switch more like PS4/Xbox One. That would definitely help it stand out in the market and not just be an underpowered PC. Who likes local co-op anyway?

Not that I think they should emulate their competition to the letter but Nintendo's first party is what makes it stick out from the others not it's under-utilized hardware designs.

 

[purdobol]

Hitbox says otherwise.

Hitbox is not a gamepad. You're comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Branduil]

I mean, the "bad" thing about is that it literally is not a D-pad- not any more than the C-buttons on the N64 controller were. That should be fine for most usages of the D-pad in modern games, sure, but it probably won't be something you'll ever want to use in VC or fighting games.

 

[RM8]

So you're saying they should market to the smaller audience instead of the wider-audience? They don't want Wii U and Vita sales. They were terrible.

No, we're just trying to talk about the trade-off of removing a d-pad, all while you act all weirdly defensive and act as an obstacle for actual discussion.

 

[LonelyGreyWolf]

I really am not being a jerk. I'm listening to every argument about wanting a d-pad but Wii thrived on it's local co-op and it gave the console huge sales. I want Switch to be a success and this idea will help sell it.

I absolutely agree with all of that, but still I completely understand why people miss a proper d-pad and I see why this is a deal breaker to some people. The people who find this a deal breaker are certainly in a minority, but nonetheless, OP asked why people find it a deal breaker and people gave legitimate answers.

 

[GhostTrick]

It's not a D-pad. That's the problem. It's crazy that they sacrificed the d-pad for a silly local multiplayer gimmick that in the end, not many people will use.

 

[Majmun]

???

Nintendo has always been #1 for local co-op gaming. I'm talking in the living room not outside.

Most people play fps games these days. Online or or local. You'll need two analog sticks for those games.

Try to play Call of Duty or Rocket League or even Minecraft with ONE joycon controler...

I guess the two joycons are great for smash, mario kart and mini-games

 

[RM8]

Counter-arguing is not being an obstacle. Sorry for ruining your echo chamber experience today. No back and forth debate allowed.

You refuse to acknowledge there's even a trade-off, lol.

 

[CentralScrutinizer]

It's very fair to assume it will be worse. Decades of designers have used the same basic principle to create their dpad. This is because its form is dictated by its function. The switch controller's functions are less specific and more variable, and so the form must be a compromise. It very likely will be worse as a dpad.

I didn't say it wouldn't be worse I said don't assume the worst, meaning its not gonna leave games completely unplayable and janky.

 

[GhostTrick]

So you're saying they should market to the smaller audience instead of the wider-audience? They don't want Wii U and Vita sales. They were terrible.

The wider-audience doesn't care is the controller has a d-pad instead of buttons. They'll still press down/right/up/left in both cases.

 

[Prisoner KSC2-303]

It only works for a certain type of local multiplayer game, so it's a half baked solution at best.

As much as it may help it, it'll also hurt it, as many are factoring in the cost of a Pro pad to reach what they consider to be basic levels of functionality.

 

[Aroll]

Because the buttons are not close enough to make it confortable.

The buttons look like they are in the same location as the ends of a D Pad....

But I do think this is overblown. Ever since thumbsticks arrived.... what's been the point of using d-pad for movement?


Serious question. Does it provide some tangible benefit over just using the stick instead?

 

[cireza]

I won't be able to play 2D games with this setup. I need a proper d-pad.

The Pro Controller is mandatory for me (for 2D games), and I fear that playing games in handheld mode will be too inconvenient.

I really hope that they will release a left joycon with a d-pad.

 

[OryoN]

I'm pretty sure the inventors of the d-pad know a thing or two about what a decent d-pad is.

The thing is; it's not trying to be a "d-pad!" GASP! I know right?

They're simply directional buttons, and it was a necessary tradeoff to bring the kind of local 2-player-anywhere functionality Nintendo wanted to introduce. Whether or not we are ok with the tradeoff is an entirely different matter and comes down to personal preferences.

I'm not sure that calling the buttons a poorly made d-pad is fair criticism. Nobody calls the analog stick a "shitty d-pad." I'd imaging that's because people understand the reasoning behind its design. It's no different here.

 

[zoukka]

It's not a d-pad...

 

[RM8]

Serious question. Does it provide some tangible benefit over just using the stick instead?

Yes, it's much faster and more precise for games with digital input (example, the entire NES and SNES libraries, as well as 2D fighters / platformers).

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

People waiting for a revision of this dont understand how a joycon works... They want you to be able to use each joycon as a seperate controller if you hold it horizontally. Thats why its 4 seperate buttons

I will spend 99.99% of my time with this console playing by myself. I don't need this "feature." I'd much rather have a d-pad.

 

[Berordn]

There's a large indie market of 2D games that use the D-Pad primarily.

But larger titles don't really seem to, and the developers of those are probably who Nintendo is trying to win over.

Indie games tend to be really good about supporting a lot of options, so I feel like they're the least likely to lose out here. I do think a couple will suffer a little for the loss, though.

 

[family_guy]

Yes, they should have made the Switch more like PS4/Xbox One. That would definitely help it stand out in the market and not just be an underpowered PC. Who likes local co-op anyway?

You can throw everything into gimmicks to stand out, but if people aren't using them then you just made dumb sacrifices and made your system more expensive than it needed to be just to service a niche of a market that would care about playing that way while alienating a much larger market. Local co-op is great. We need more of it, but I'm not going to subject the guests that come to my house to such a terrible control scheme. I'd pass them a Pro controller.

Nintendo's made it so that people who want to be able to enjoy all their games the way they were intended to be played will have to get a Pro controller. That negates the portability advantage. If I want to play games like Mario Bros or Castlevania in my bed, I can't do that effectively with just the Switch and the Joycons.

 

[Harmen]

For classic 2d platformers and fighters I prefer a d-pad over a stick. Diagonal input does not seem as comfortable with four seperate buttons. But it is not a huge deal for me or anything.

 

[Maintenance]

It's not a D-pad, that's the problem.

There's no trade-off, this is flat out worse.

 

[J 0 E]

It's bad for 2D indie + fighting games

bad design specially from Nin compared to their older designs

it's like they're forcing you to buy the pro controller

 

[udivision]

Dude. Nintendo is the company that needs a D-pad on their device the most. Have fun playing their entire NES and SNES VC library and their new 2D platformers with a stick and face buttons.

Yeah, I never really thought about that. Sounds... Bad

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

Do we know if the Switch's dpad is clicky (like the New 3DS face buttons) or squishy (like the Wii U Gamepad face buttons)?

Because if it's the former then I don't see much of a problem, really.
It's a potential squishyness which I'd fear the most.
Because then it would probably feel totally awkward (until one gets used to it, which they will)

 

[Guymelef]

All according to the master plan.
Then you'll buy one of those cheap Pro controllers.

 

[jonno394]

its not this

I don't get it, whats the difference (not aesthetically) between the switch buttons and the one on the right, that's still just four separate inputs (the circles underneath corresponding to where they touch the senosrs) but in the shape of a cross.

 

[Conrad Link]

You know, I never really thought about this before. Not having a real d-pad for when I'm out playing in handheld mode will really hamper my enjoyment of stuff like SF2.... something I was really looking forward too.