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What Devs Want from the Next Gen - Eurogamer

T

thelatestmodel

Junior, please.
Link

Nathaniel Chapman (Obsidian) -
One thing that is tricky with the next gen, and is beginning to be tricky with this gen, is that [the platform holders] seem to be splitting and going in their own directions with features. You have Move, you have Kinect, the Wii, and Wii U now.
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Edmund McMillen (Team Meat) -
Buttons. Buttons and game pads. Just give me my f***ing game pad back.
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Nathan Vella (Capybara) -
Since we’re working outside of the 3D norm - using hand-animated 2D HD visuals - our texture sheets take up a massive amount of video RAM.... More RAM means more textures fitting in memory, which in turn means we can go even crazier with the 2D HD we love to make.
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Martin Edmondson (Reflections)-
Because we can't be doing this - we can't be building rendering and physics tech from the ground up any longer. I don't think we'll be doing that again - in fact, I'm sure we won't be doing it again.
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Eric Chahi (From Dust / Another World legend)-
Oddly, I don’t have any specific demands. In fact, my philosophy is more about adapting to existing technology, because there is always a way to create something original. As long as it is simple for the developer to programme and easy for players to use!
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Some very interesting and very different opinions here. Love Edmund McMillen's openness and Eric Chahi's "blame the artist, not the tools" viewpoint.
 
thelatestmodel said:
Edmund McMillen (Team Meat) -
Buttons. Buttons and game pads. Just give me my f***ing game pad back.
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Goodness me, THIS.

As someone who owns a touch-screen smartphone, I fucking loathe games that aren't designed with the interface in mind. I hate having to play action or twitchy games with my thumbs on a virtual joystick and buttons that obscure the screen. Fuck that shit. Seriously.

Either shift your design philosophy to match the interface, or don't fucking put your game on a touchscreen device. There are few games, IMO, that are meaty, traditional gaming experiences because the interface itself is very limiting in your control options.

I don't want to play 2-minute bursts all the time, so I'm in favour of shifting the focus back to tactile, physical controls. I love me buttons.
 
thelatestmodel said:
Nathan Vella (Capybara) -
Since we’re working outside of the 3D norm - using hand-animated 2D HD visuals - our texture sheets take up a massive amount of video RAM.... More RAM means more textures fitting in memory, which in turn means we can go even crazier with the 2D HD we love to make.
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This is another one too. Playing M&M: Clash of Heroes HD had sluggish load times due to the limited RAM on consoles. I think Nathan even mentioned it in the |OT|. It's a shame that HD consoles don't really have the spec to support higher res textures. It's not really a problem that's bottlenecking 2D games exclusively though -- 3D games on console often suffer from muddy textures if their streaming tech, among other things, isn't up to snuff.
 
I much prefer Chahi's way of thinking instead of the way Edmund McMillen puts it. Seems like all he wants is what we've been stuck with for the last decade, and don't want to see what new types of interface and input-methods could bring to the world of gaming.
 
Eric Chahi just has to be a party pooper.
 
Vinterbird said:
I much prefer Chahi's way of thinking instead of the way Edmund McMillen puts it. Seems like all he wants is what we've been stuck with for the last decade, and don't want to see what new types of interface and input-methods could bring to the world of gaming.
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But you could also blame the thousands of small hobbyist devs who populate the App Store/ Android Market with games that don't adapt their controls or game design to the interface itself. So many people are trying to make games that have transparent buttons and a +pad on screen. It makes for a shitty experience.

Games like, say, Superbrothers -- ones that are designed to take advantage of a touchscreen input -- are few and far in between right now.
 
08312010_Super_Meat_Boy_Edmund.jpg


preach it
 
shagg_187 said:
4GB RAM for consoles. GODAMNIT, RAM is cheap! Fuck the peasent-ranged 256MB!!!
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Consoles do not use Desktop RAM. If Sony goes with XDR again, they can put 1.5-2GB max.
 
Meisadragon said:
Very expensive. They can go with 50MB though but the budget is best spent elsewhere.
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Just big enough to allow for a full 1920x1080 buffer with at least 4x AA (but I guess MLAA, FXAA and the like may negate that last burden).
 
shagg_187 said:
4GB RAM for consoles. GODAMNIT, RAM is cheap! Fuck the peasent-ranged 256MB!!!
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Yeah!! I can pick up 4gb of RAM for $25 off Newegg, a big manufacturer can probably get it for half that?!? What the fuck!?
 
soultron said:
But you could also blame the thousands of small hobbyist devs who populate the App Store/ Android Market with games that don't adapt their controls or game design to the interface itself. So many people are trying to make games that have transparent buttons and a +pad on screen. It makes for a shitty experience.

Games like, say, Superbrothers -- ones that are designed to take advantage of a touchscreen input -- are few and far in between right now.
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Totally agree, but as with any system there will always be shitty games. And back when Sony introduced the dual-analog sticks for the PS1 it took some trying from developers, and shitty controls, to make it fully work and become useful.

I see it the same way for touch and motion, we're in the learning period of these new interfaces. We have ways of interacting with stuff that is so different and unique, and we still haven't figured out how to do it proper yet, and when we start to do that, I believe that slowly the virtual d-pad will die and on-rails motion games will evolve.

It sucks that most of the games don't explore new interfaces, but I think we just have to cross the threshold and we will see how great it actually can be.
 
Team Meat
And the same goes for Kinect. That thing is a piece of garbage. There is absolutely nothing good for it. It's a joke. It's a f***ing joke. It doesn't make any f***ing sense. It's painful because they justify it by saying 'a lot of people bought it', but that's just marketing. I'm telling you, there's not going to be anything for it that's so compelling that 10 years from now you'll tell your friends 'wow, I really want to break out the Kinect and play this'. It's just not going to happen.

Gameplay is what matters. Good game design. It's almost as if they thought developers said 's**t, we've hit a wall and we can't design fun games anymore, and can't innovate through game design itself, we need all these crazy-ass peripherals that are going to help break through barriers and find new uncharted territory.' No, just f***ing sit down and come up with a new genre. Chris Hecker came up with a new genre - Spy Party - so I guarantee other people can too. Minecraft - a creative MMO. And Katamari too. We don't need peripherals.

Peripherals should stay as peripherals that you buy for Rock Band or something. Don't require someone to design for your crazy-ass experimental peripheral.
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The truth right there.
 
Vinterbird said:
Totally agree, but as with any system there will always be shitty games. And back when Sony introduced the dual-analog sticks for the PS1 it took some trying from developers, and shitty controls, to make it fully work and become useful.

I see it the same way for touch and motion, we're in the learning period of these new interfaces. We have ways of interacting with stuff that is so different and unique, and we still haven't figured out how to do it proper yet, and when we start to do that, I believe that slowly the virtual d-pad will die and on-rails motion games will evolve.

It sucks that most of the games don't explore new interfaces, but I think we just have to cross the threshold and we will see how great it actually can be.
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I agree that things might get a lot better for touch and motion, but I also think there's nothing wrong with a game pad or stick. Nothing comes close in terms of precision, you cannot blame the equipment if you make a mistake.

I also don't think other control methods are anywhere near as satisfying in terms of comfort and feedback, but that could just be because I was brought up with them. Anyway, I'm just glad someone is sticking up for what has worked for over 30 years.
 
Edmund McMillen said:
The only game that was really good was the game that was made by Nintendo for the system, that came with the system - Wii Sports
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Edmund, I love your game, but that's some bullshit you're speaking there.
 
_Alkaline_ said:
Edmund, I love your game, but that's some bullshit you're speaking there.
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Actually, that might depend on what he means by "for the system." Something that's just made and released on that system, or something designed around its capabilities? The former, yeah, he's nuts, but if it's the latter... well, there's still Wii Sports Resort and likely Skyward Sword, but just about everything else either can be largely adapted to standard controls or just wasn't all that great anyway.

EDIT: And actually looking at the link confirmed it. As great as I think the pointer controls at the least are for games like Metroid Prime he does have a point.
 
I like Chahi's comment, I think From Dusts brand of light RTS could've worked better on consoles with some Move and Kinect loving. Kinect might be a little imprecise, but Mizuguchi nailed it pretty well with Child of Eden. McMillens comment is pretty typical for that kind of dev, Meat Boy is a rock solid classic platformer, that sort of game doesn't benefit from new input methods.
 
Eusis said:
Actually, that might depend on what he means by "for the system." Something that's just made and released on that system, or something designed around its capabilities? The former, yeah, he's nuts, but if it's the latter... well, there's still Wii Sports Resort and likely Skyward Sword, but just about everything else either can be largely adapted to standard controls or just wasn't all that great anyway.
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His argument is that Wii Sports is the only game on the system that is improved by its controls.

There are plenty of games on the system improved through its controls, just as there are many games made worse.
 
Edmund McMillen sounds like your average obnoxious GAFfer with a hate on for motion control. His argument that controls should never be advanced and that people should just "sit down" and come up with new genres is nonsense. There's no reason we can't have new genres AND new control options. The varied control options spicing up all of the different platforms and making it so we don't buy 3 boxes that are essentially the fucking same - is easily my favourite thing about this generation.

They all seem interested in more RAM - and some of them seem exasperated at the thought of a new generation and having to sell to new userbases again so soon.
 
Testify, Mr. McMillen, testify! Still could not care less about playing with anything other than a gamepad/keyboard + mouse.
 
Make sure it has more RAM and a normal controller. Epic dude waffles some incomprehensible nonsense about how more powerful graphics will help artists optimise their workflows.

Doesn't anyone want anything new or interesting? (and by new and interesting I don't mean the "cool" stuff that has been around for years)

If nobody can think of anything really worth getting a new console for then the guy who says that a new console should cost £50 sounds the smartest.
 
JimboJones said:
Honestly I don't want another GC/PS2/Xbox situation where hardware power and controllers where really similar.
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The GameCube pad was the comfiest IMO, but it was disadvantaged due to lacking clickable sticks and an extra shoulder button.
 
Buttons. Buttons and game pads. Just give me my f***ing game pad back.
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I've said it before: if the end of this generation is an indication of what the next gen is going to be like (especially on the Microsoft front), I'm going to defect to the master race.
 
I find evangelist baby more scary than funny!

More Fun To Compute said:
If nobody can think of anything really worth getting a new console for then the guy who says that a new console should cost £50 sounds the smartest.
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I agree. And that guy sounded pretty smart generally. Imagine if you could trojan horse a cheap game system like the one he described into every home, the user-base would be incredible for publishers.
 
Blue Ninja said:
I've said it before: if the end of this generation is an indication of what the next gen is going to be like (especially on the Microsoft front), I'm going to defect to the master race.
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Already did it. Best gaming move I've ever made, highly recommended. You'll gain so much and leave so much bullshit behind.

Eric Chachi sounds like a cool guy.
 
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