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[VFXVeteran]

Your better than that, I know your background is software, but really ?

I know hardware enough.

If you can prove to me why they have been silent about their hardware architecture and how it has a significant advantage going forward, I'm all ears. You can start with comparisons from time of announcement last gen and what information was given how many months before release. You can also try to explain to me why my Sony sources weren't very happy with telling me the PS5 only had 1080Ti performance over a year ago.

 

[Pedro Motta]

Their silence to me means they don't have hardware that meets expectations. It's just that simple.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

 

[geordiemp]

I know hardware enough.

If you can prove to me why they have been silent about their hardware architecture and how it has a significant advantage going forward, I'm all ears. You can start with comparisons from time of announcement last gen and what information was given how many months before release. You can also try to explain to me why my Sony sources weren't very happy with telling me the PS5 only had 1080Ti performance over a year ago.

Well first you can go watch all the previews that show 4k60 in performance mode, such as spiderman.

Then go watch the DF performamce on Sekiro and Hitmax 3 for XSX.

Then come back and tell me what is lacking for ps5 performance wise and is it punching above or below its weight.

You said its not performing, from what I ahve seen its over performing.

Once you have established that, then we can discuss hardware.

 

[Hostile_18]

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

We shouldn't need faith with 5 weeks to go before launch

Backwards compatability brute force enhancements and patched enhancements is a massive deal to me and I have a massive digital library that would benefit.

 

[Hostile_18]

Well first you can go watch all the previews that show 4k60 in performance mode, such as spiderman.

Then go watch the DF performamce on Sekiro and Hitmax 3 for XSX.

Then come back and tell me what is lacking for ps5 performance wise and is it punching above or below its weight.

You said its not performing, from what I ahve seen its over performing.

Once you have established that, then we can discuss hardware.

What is your theory why Sony have shown or revealed so little with a month to go to release with regards to BC?

 

[Stiflers Mom]

You can also try to explain to me why my Sony sources weren't very happy with telling me the PS5 only had 1080Ti performance over a year ago.

Seems they found some secret sauce since then, though.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Well first you can go watch all the previews that show 4k60 in performance mode, such as spiderman.

Now we are into the software realm - what's so special about Spiderman over this generation?

Then go watch the DF performamce on Sekiro and Hitmax 3 for XSX.

This thread is not about MS vs. Sony. You just can't help yourself can you?

Then come back and tell me what is lacking for ps5 performance wise and is it punching above or below its weight.

The PS5 has problems rendering anything at native 4k and pushing 60FPS at the same time. Why would it with 10TFLOPS of power? And this goes for XSX as well. 2 more TFLOPS aren't enough to bridge that gap.

Once you have established that, then we can discuss hardware.

I'm not a fanboy lackey on these boards. I can talk anything you want in Comp Sci now. State your claim and show your connected dots.

Lastly, stay on topic. This is about Sony being silent - which is a fact - more silent than they've ever been. There is a reason for it, valid or not.

 

[DinoD]

Their silence to me means they don't have hardware that meets expectations. It's just that simple.

Your expectations?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Your expectations?

Head over to the Speculation thread and search about a year ago on what most Sony gamers wanted in terms of power. It's written all over the place. Then you can look up a more recent thread about "Mid-gen refresh expectations.." and read those comments (which are again outlandish).

 

[Pedro Motta]

We shouldn't need faith with 5 weeks to go before launch

Backwards compatability brute force enhancements and patched enhancements is a massive deal to me and I have a massive digital library that would benefit.

Let me fill you in on something. This generational leap is so huge, it takes more time for studios to adapt to the increased volume of artistic content with film quality assets, updated engines and pipelines, more so than previous generations. What Sony showed so far is quite impressive given the time frame the studios had to adapt. Incredible things are coming. Many crows will be swallowed.

 

[Hostile_18]

Let me fill you in on something. This generational leap is so huge, it takes more time for studios to adapt to the increased volume of artistic content with film quality assets, updated engines and pipelines, more so than previous generations. What Sony showed so far is quite impressive given the time frame the studios had to adapt. Incredible things are coming. Many crows will be swallowed.

I don't doubt the new games but backwards compatability and enhancements must have been worked on for many, many years before now and a month out we have seen or had detailed next to nothing.

 

[geordiemp]

What is your theory why Sony have shown or revealed so little with a month to go to release with regards to BC?

Well first of all Sony dont have to do much with Ps4 BC anyway. Go watch DF video. on XSX to get a baseline expectation

Now we are into the software realm - what's so special about Spiderman over this generation?


This thread is not about MS vs. Sony. You just can't help yourself can you?


The PS5 has problems rendering anything at native 4k and pushing 60FPS at the same time. Why would it with 10TFLOPS of power? And this goes for XSX as well. 2 more TFLOPS aren't enough to bridge that gap.


I'm not a fanboy lackey on these boards. I can talk anything you want in Comp Sci now. State your claim and show your connected dots.

Lastly, stay on topic. This is about Sony being silent - which is a fact - more silent than they've ever been. There is a reason for it, valid or not.

Well the thread is about sony Silence and I assume its about BC software or hardware (pick one).

Software BC, so whats the expectations ? If Ps5 can do same as XSX or better, then what is the problem ?

I think Ps5 will manage 1800p60 on Sekiro and be fine on most ps4 games that are not hard capped. Sony will have nothing to hide performance wise vs other consoles but that is another topic.

Sony have focussed on new games, and that is what is normal to focus on if you have them.

Hardware focus will eb in line with AMD RDNA2 reveal, as AMD rumoured 2.5 Ghz 40 CU with infinity cache is revealed at end of this month. If you cant see any potential similarities there, then we have no more to discuss.

 

[Chumpion]

Worst case scenario: The cooling system turned out bad and the thing is another jet engine.

 

[Robins]

I don't get why everyone is so worried about the silence.

With Apple, they hold an event, the phone can be pre-ordered a week later, the phone then releases a week after that.

With these consoles we have had much more information that other pieces of technology that get released.

 

[Pedro Motta]

I don't doubt the new games but backwards compatability and enhancements must have been worked on for many, many years before now and a month out we have seen or had detailed next to nothing.

They have already mentioned (officially) that PS4 will support 99% of the PS4 games, with hundreds of the most played to be patched for boost mode PS5. They need only to show this 1 week before launch at most. Why is everyone stressing? They showed a lot of games running on actual hardware and people get upset they're not showing BC? Makes no sense.

 

[DinoD]

Head over to the Speculation thread and search about a year ago on what most Sony gamers wanted in terms of power. It's written all over the place. Then you can look up a more recent thread about "Mid-gen refresh expectations.." and read those comments (which are again outlandish).

I'm not sure if I would want to subject myself that. From what I can remember. Both consoles delivered way more of what was expected back in early 2019. SSD, better CPU, double the RAM and better GPU with ray tracing capabilities. The fact that MS dropped the GPU monster doesn't (shouldn't) diminish the PS5 capabilities. Both consoles are clearly the next gen. At least with what's possible within the $400-500 budget.

Regards

 

[Porcile]

They are going to have massive supply issues.

 

[geordiemp]

Worst case scenario: The cooling system turned out bad and the thing is another jet engine.

The XSX is not that hot for its small volume, and MS can turn up the fan if it is deemed a bit too toasty for the small box vs volume air flow. So I dont see an issue here for XSX over the concern recent reports.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Well the thread is about soly Silence and I assume its about BC, so whats the expectations ? If Ps5 can do same as XSX or better, then what is the problem ?

What would BC have to do with Sony's overall silence about their PS5 hardware from over a year ago when people expected news on the next-gen console plans?

I think Ps5 will manage 1800p60 on Sekiro and be fine on most ps4 games that are not hard capped. Sony will have nothing to hide performance wise vs other consoles

But that's just it - both consoles are barely up to snuff with power. I truely believe that RT was tacked on due to demand and not because of their plans. This generation has got to be the most unimpressive generation of all. Maybe it has to do with Nvidia's tech milestones with their own GPUs that widen the gap dramatically.

Sony have focussed on new games, and that is what is normal to focus on if you have them.

The games they've shown offer nothing remarkable over last generation.

Hardware focus will eb in line with AMD RDNA2 reveal, as their rumoured 2.5 Ghz 40 CU with infinity cache is revaled at end of this month. If you cant see any potential similarities there, then we have no mre to discuss.

People wanted toe-to-toe top of the line hardware with a high-end PC at the time. They wanted at least 24G of RAM. They wanted enormous bandwidth RAM subsystems. They wanted GPUs that had comparable Nvidia architecture. They continuously defined "next-gen" graphics as looking like today's CG movies (some still make that ridiculous claim in the games we've been shown).

 

[Chumpion]

The XSX is not that hot for its small volume, and MS can turn up the fan if it is deemed a bit too toasty for the small box vs volume air flow. So I dont see an issue here for XSX over the concern recent reports.

WTF?! I was talking about Sony.

 

[Orky]

Well first of all Sony dont have to do much with Ps4 BC anyway. Go watch DF video. on XSX to get a baseline expectation



Well the thread is about sony Silence and I assume its about BC software or hardware (pick one).

Software BC, so whats the expectations ? If Ps5 can do same as XSX or better, then what is the problem ?

I think Ps5 will manage 1800p60 on Sekiro and be fine on most ps4 games that are not hard capped. Sony will have nothing to hide performance wise vs other consoles but that is another topic.

Sony have focussed on new games, and that is what is normal to focus on if you have them.

Hardware focus will eb in line with AMD RDNA2 reveal, as AMD rumoured 2.5 Ghz 40 CU with infinity cache is revealed at end of this month. If you cant see any potential similarities there, then we have no more to discuss.

But how does BC work?


this is what the PS blog said:

We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.

We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.

This sounds to me that almost all games will run the same as they run on PS4. And on a title by title basis there will be some games that have boosted frequency, but if all of them would have the boosted FPS and RES they would say it and not just say „playable“ on PS5.

Or will ALL/99% of the games run on the boosted mode? I don’t get it.

 

[geordiemp]

What would BC have to do with Sony's overall silence about their PS5 hardware from over a year ago when people expected news on the next-gen console plans?




But that's just it - both consoles are barely up to snuff with power. I truely believe that RT was tacked on due to demand and not because of their plans. This generation has got to be the most unimpressive generation of all. Maybe it has to do with Nvidia's tech milestones with their own GPUs that widen the gap dramatically.



The games they've shown offer nothing remarkable over last generation.



People wanted toe-to-toe top of the line hardware with a high-end PC at the time. They wanted at least 24 of RAM. They wanted enormous bandwidth RAM subsystems. They wanted GPUs that had comparable Nvidia architecture. They continuously defined "next-gen" graphics as looking like today's CG movies (some still make that ridiculous claim in the games we've been shown).

So your talking about hardware reveal now, Its difficult to follow your subjects

Sony have revealed cache scrubbers, Cache coherency engine and 2.23 Ghz, 256 bit bus. Sony Patent talk about vertices compression.

AMD leaks say 40 CU, 2.5 GHz, patents and lots of stuff, cache outside die, possible large 128 MB L2, shared L1 and cache optimisation (more liklely DL apps).

Its clear both Sony will wait closer to AMD reveal. MS did hotchips but they have an arrangement similar to 5700 in cache and heirachy, so nothing new there except RDNA2 blocks which were not detailed..

WTF?! I was talking about Sony.

I know, having some fun with you, but look whcih console is getting the hot news, its not the ps5 which is quiet and cool.

 

[VFXVeteran]

So your talking about hardware reveal now, Its difficult to follow your subjects

Sony have revealed cache scrubbers, Cache coherency engine and 2.23 Ghz, 256 bit bus. Sony Patent talk about vertices compression.

AMD leaks say 40 CU, 2.5 GHz, patents and lots of stuff, cache outside die, possible large 128 MB L2, shared L1 and cache optimisation (more liklely DL apps).

And how is this going to make current gen games graduate to look like next-gen CGI-like graphics quality? And where is one example of a released PS5 game (multiplat or otherwise) that shows this?

Its clear both Sony will wait closer to AMD reveal.

Why? The tech has already been implemented. Why not have shown that back early summer?

 

[Hostile_18]

For the people not concerned about backwards compatability/enhancement news, how likely does this sound in your head?;

Sony BC Team: "Jim we've done it. 99% of games are backwards compatible. Not only that but where there is a variable resolution it will be locked at max. Where there is no frame rate cap it will be 60+."

Jim: "Wow that's amazing, don't tell the marketing department though. It will be our little secret."

Sony BC Team: "But Jim not only that but certain games we have enhanced. You can now play all our first party titles and select third party ones at 4k 60fps with auto HDR and high res textures. Put simply the games they love have never looked or played better than they do on PS5."

Jim: *closes door* You can tell *no one*.. "Who else knows about this?".

Sony BC Team: "No one Jim but you need to show and tell the press. This is a massive advantage with our games portfolio. We will secure loads more PS5 pre-orderes and stop people going with the competition"

**A shot rings out in the cold October air... and then... silence**

 

[geordiemp]

And how is this going to make current gen games graduate to look like next-gen CGI-like graphics quality? And where is one example of a released PS5 game (multiplat or otherwise) that shows this?



Why? The tech has already been implemented. Why not have shown that back early summer?

We started why is sony quiet, software BC, then hardware, then current ps5 games, now onto CGI ?

What is your concern as your jumping around like a rabbit/

Get some sleep man, speak later/

 

[AphexTwunt]

If they had anything to crow about they would be doing it loud and clear by this point.

 

[geordiemp]

But how does BC work?


this is what the PS blog said:

We believe that the overwhelming majority of the 4,000+ PS4 titles will be playable on PS5.

We’re expecting backward compatible titles will run at a boosted frequency on PS5 so that they can benefit from higher or more stable frame rates and potentially higher resolutions. We’re currently evaluating games on a title-by-title basis to spot any issues that need adjustment from the original software developers.

This sounds to me that almost all games will run the same as they run on PS4. And on a title by title basis there will be some games that have boosted frequency, but if all of them would have the boosted FPS and RES they would say it and not just say „playable“ on PS5.

Or will ALL/99% of the games run on the boosted mode? I don’t get it.

Same as XSX, some CONSOLE BC games have caps in resolution or frame rate or both , so without 3rd party patch not much can be done. Take Sekiro on XSX, DF said it is 1800p as that is all that is in teh software and capped at 60

So Seliro here on XSX (DF recent video) resolution is at 1800p, upscaled to 4K but not much Sony or MS can do with that.

Ps5 will do the same on the ps4pro version, 1800p and whateever frame rate it performs at unless From Sottware patch it to 4k or offer more settings.

 

[Hostile_18]

Well what ever the reason for the silence I can't wait for the Enhanced Patches on both consoles. It will be so exciting seeing what they come up with and which games are selected.

 

[geordiemp]

Well what ever the reason for the silence I can't wait for the Enhanced Patches on both consoles. It will be so exciting seeing what they come up with and which games are selected.

Sony will probably do the UI experience and BC together is my guess.

They will keepi it under wraps as long as possible as rumour is some nextflix UI deal, but who knows ?

Its software, revealing late will take longer for competitors to copy features....

 

[Hostile_18]

Sony will probably do the UI experience and BC together is my guess.

They will keepi it under wraps as long as possible as rumour is some nextflix UI deal, but who knows ?

I hope they do that but I'd wonder why they would want to keep it under wraps if its potentially a plus point in the the PS5's column. It would be like Microsoft keeping the Zenimax acquisition quiet still, it wouldn't really be advantageous to.

 

[DonJimbo]

Thanks, interesting take. What do you consider is arrogant ?

Likely Sony and AMD are keeping certain features back under NDA, notice the leaked AMD CPU part (smaller one) is 2.5 Ghz and 40 CU and 256bus with infinity cache.

What do you think Sony will have ?

Sony will need to be instep with AMD for some of the tech reveal. If you believe that is arrogant then maybe you need to reconsider your reasoning.



Your better than that, I know your background is software, but really ? What expectations exactly ? Ray tracing, options for 4k60 its all there.

We have already seen the hardware perform, and it performs well above expectations in games seen, so the only answer is how, does it punch above its weight and then we get into hardware NDA with AMD and likely similar reveal timescales.

Arrogant means that you have to pay freaking 70 dollars for a game you already own or not full backwards compability in opposite to a console that has backwards compability and a better upgrade system why can not Sony have engineers who are experienced to make BC possible

 

[MrLove]

What is your theory why Sony have shown or revealed so little with a month to go to release with regards to BC?

Who cares bc? Seriously, we should care more about new games for new consoles. Sony showed us fantastic and next-gen worthy games with brilliant technic. What is your theory why MS shown absolut nothing new games a month to go to release? We didnt see one second of directly Xbox nextgen footage.

 

[Hostile_18]

Who cares bc? Seriously, we should care more about new games for new consoles. Sony showed us fantastic and next-gen worthy games with brilliant technic. What is your theory why MS shown absolut nothing new games a month to go to release? We didnt see one second of directly Xbox nextgen footage.

New games are just a given for me, how they enhance my favorites is far more exciting.

As for Microsoft I dont know enough to speculate in all honesty.

 

[Ten_Fold]

Who cares bc? Seriously, we should care more about new games for new consoles. Sony showed us fantastic and next-gen worthy games with brilliant technic. What is your theory why MS shown absolut nothing new games a month to go to release? We didnt see one second of directly Xbox nextgen footage.

Was in target yesterday an boy people really do love BC, mainly because there’s usually a few games that probably won’t be playable on next gen an they really wanna play them every once in a while. Also it saves space. BC is pretty big, not a deal breaker at all, but at the start of next gen it’s pretty useful. I say 2 years into next gen most people won’t play older games unless your on a Nintendo system.

 

[Zekra Dezivad]

Maybe we will just have to stop making this threads.

 

[Ritsumei2020]

It can only mean one thing.

Nintendo is Doomed.

 

[Jokerevo]

But you preordered anyway right?

 

[Hostile_18]

But you preordered anyway right?

Of course. One bad/worrying aspect dosnt mean the whole thing is not worth having. Plus a pre order can be cancelled any time at no cost.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Promotion will probably come next month yes it’s been mostly silent so far.

 

[daninthemix]

This post is embarrassing If you really believe that, you have nothing to back that up with besides your words.
At some point all will be revealed.

Good to see that the church of Sony still has a few passionate disciples left.

 

[DESTROYA]

Good to see that the church of Sony still has a few passionate disciples left.

OK , whatever you say.
Just to let you know I pre ordered a XsX and not a PS5.
Swing and a miss!

 

[BaneIsPain]

Silence is golden

 

[MiguelItUp]

Best case is most certainly the deal. Both Microsoft and Sony have been arranging their marketing and materials accordingly. How and why, we'll never know. But they definitely have things on standby and in place to go ahead and roll with accordingly.

 

[Clear]

Sony haven't been silent. They've simply gone for a drip-feed approach instead of more typical "shock-and-awe" type of deal. Probably because MS really haven't been able to show anything that impressive yet due to them evidently struggling to mount a strong software line-up for launch.

I'm sorry but the way people have handwaved off quite how atrociously thin the Series X/S launch line-up has turned out to be is really suspect. MS had one flagship title in Halo Infinite, and they even failed to deliver that. That is really, really, bad.

Sorry but this focus on B/C reeks of deliberate misdirection. Take that away and what have they shown over and above what Sony has?

 

[yurinka]

What is your theory why Sony have shown or revealed so little with a month to go to release with regards to BC?

Most users don't give a fuck about BC, they care about new games. Sony did show new games and their related videos are some of the most viewed ever in the PlayStation youtube channel even if they are very recent.

MS launch games are an indie made by a single guy, multis and a few refurbished previous gen games. So they had to focus on BC because Halo had to be delayed because didn't look very good, and all their other big AAA exclusives won't be released at least until November 2022, so can't show their gameplay right now.

BC is pretty secondary for Sony. They said 99.99% of the thousands of PS4+PSVR games (out of a total of 4000+ games) they tested work properly on PS5, and also mentioned that it PS5 BC has a PS4 Pro like boost mode, which means we'll also see the BC benefits in the -until now 961- games supported by Series X BC of higher fps (specially when unlocked/uncapped) and resolution (for games with dynamic resolution) in addition to shorter loading times (that will be shorter in PS5 due to more than twice faster SSD loading speed compared to Series X). Today they also said PS4 trophies will carry to PS5.

So now the only thing they have to confirm is that saves for BC games are also shared with PS5 via cloud saves, something that it's basically sure because we already know that the game catalog and trophies are shared between them.

 

[vypermajik]

For the record: I am a Sony Pony and am 100% on-board with PS5.

BUT -- it'd be nice to know what to expect.

In my opinion, Sony is relying on others to spread the message. Ubisoft, Take Two, etc... coming out with their own free back-compat policies. Xbox, in contrast, has done a great job of what to expect.

Video

 

[Kerlurk]

Gaming Discussion

Video game news, industry analysis, sales figures, deals, impressions, reviews, and discussions of everything in the medium, covering all platforms, genres, and territories.

www.neogaf.com

 

[Hostile_18]

Sony haven't been silent. They've simply gone for a drip-feed approach instead of more typical "shock-and-awe" type of deal. Probably because MS really haven't been able to show anything that impressive yet due to them evidently struggling to mount a strong software line-up for launch.

I'm sorry but the way people have handwaved off quite how atrociously thin the Series X/S launch line-up has turned out to be is really suspect. MS had one flagship title in Halo Infinite, and they even failed to deliver that. That is really, really, bad.

Sorry but this focus on B/C reeks of deliberate misdirection. Take that away and what have they shown over and above what Sony has?

Well the X Box Series X's perceived flaws are neither here nor there for this thread. Enhanced BC is genuinely my most exciting next gen feature. I know some people dont care at all about it but loads of us do (check out the "How important is backwards compatibility to you?" Thread on here recently).

Whether they show exciting next gen games now or later I don't really mind, there going to come. An amazing upgrade to the majority of our large existing collections is far from certain.

 

[Tomeru]

That they are busy.

 

[Hostile_18]

That they are busy.

The marketing department Sony has is too busy to market a major feature of a upcoming console one month away?