CyberPanda
Banned
Yes, Sony has been improving their input lag. Which is a good thing.
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What is the best TV brand for gaming?
- Thread starter Airbus Jr
- Start date
sublimit
Banned
Yeah i'm in Europe.
CyberPanda
Banned
Edit: nevermind
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SlaughterX
Banned
Because this is a gaming site, so naturally a Sony fanboy is going to chose a Sony TV... even though their best TVs (OLEDs) use LG panels and have Sony video post processing which actually adds to input lag.
Chozofication_
Banned
I feel like most people complaining about lag wouldn't even know unless they're told. We had ungodly amounts of lag on older lcds.
Anything lower than 35ms is within reason, and the latest sony oled is lower than that.
Edit : lets put it this way guys, how many of us are pro Tekken players or can do a perfect run of ikaruga? Damn near no one lol. Point being, 10ms lower than 35, isn't going to affect the vast majority.
The only games where I see higher lag being a potential issue is something like Killzone 2, or n64 games where the latency is already quite high.
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Iorv3th
Member
Or because they have good TVs for the price range? The TV I had before was 10 years old and had a much higher input lag I couldn't even play on it I played on my monitor.
If you use game mode you aren't getting any extra 'post processing' to add lag.
The newest sony actually has 19ms lag at 1080p 21 at 4k. So it's less at 1080p. That is a whopping difference of about 4-5ms between that and a faster samsung or lg. The LG C8 OLED is actually higher than that. Samsung Q9fn is also higher.
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SlaughterX
Banned
Doesn't change the fact that OLED is currently the best TV technology on the market, and that Sony uses the same damn panel that's in the LG TVs and charge more for it because of their video processing chip which is not beneficial for gaming.
Fake
Member
Atrocious? Please... Between LG and Samsung I must agree the Sony Bravia have indeed more input lag than the two, but not atrocious.
You just need to think a little about TV overall. Type, material, screen, brand, TV speakers, problems ratio, etc...
If you put all this in one box of course Sony Bravia will be the first. Remember, quality still a better option for many costumers. My 3 Bravias here at home never broken one time, unlike my 4k Samsung. AAANNNDD I get another Samsung 4k 50 inch for my brother because he start to live in his new apartament, but less than one week broken. At least this time the Samsung warranty covered. People do not use the TV just to play videogames.
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Chozofication_
Banned
Yeah, that's fair. Oled doesn't need the extra processing for games. For movies, sony wins. But gaming ;
Lg oled > sony for oled.
Sony lcd* > other LCD.
*not necessarily best value.
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Chozofication_
Banned
Its true, sony has best build quality of all.
Ascend
Member
This thread is about TVs for gaming, isn't it? Not TVs for general use. I stand by my statement.
1st place is OLED,
2nd place is Samsung,
and then there's everything else.
Not to mention, Samsung TVs support FreeSync nowadays. Does Sony? Nope... Instant win for Samsung.
If you want a TV for general use, I say go TCL. Best value for money.
If you really want something fancy, still OLED is the best as of now.
If you really are concerned with OLED burn-in, and want a high end TV, Samsung still takes the cake (Q8F, Q9F). Sony comes in at the upper mid range with their X900F, which competes with the Q6F and the NU8000. And still NU8000 is recommended over the Sony when it comes to gaming, so... Yeah... If even after ALL the visual advantages that the X900F has over the NU8000, and still the Samsung is recommended over it for gaming, mainly due to the input lag, sorry, but Sony's lag is then called atrocious. Because a superior TV for everything else is put in a lower position for gaming.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tools/compare/sony-x900e-vs-samsung-nu8000/418/586
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Fake
Member
OMG with this 'instant win for Samsung'. You answer your own question. You keep forget about TV overall. Sony don't have Freesync, but is Nintendo/Sony console implemented? No. TV have speakers remember? Sony have decent TV speakers, but you don't even put in table. OLED? Back to first page please, LG MADE OLED SCREENS FOR SONY MAN, so if you put '1st place is OLED' so Sony and LG. And its not 'me' are concerned about OLED burn-in, but this is a universal problem with this OLED tech and consumers have the right to had concerned about this.
It is not because it meets your needs that it makes a product the 'best' and I'm not even putting others aspects such TV timelife or bad image calibration coming from the factory/box.
Or you can just recommend a monitor.
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Ascend
Member
Fake
Member
What is gaming to you? Picture quality? Input lag? Best sound?
You're really much into this.
CyberPanda
Banned
I even provided good links to which TVs are best for gaming and hdr gaming. Yet, there are still arguments.
Chozofication_
Banned
Black level/color reproduction doesn't matter for games?! Play until dawn on a 7 series edge lit samsung then on a sony fald.
And again, your grossly exaggerating the input lag difference.
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Chozofication_
Banned
Parroting someone elses opinion is not a good argumentI even provided good links to which TVs are best for gaming and hdr gaming. Yet, there are still arguments.
CyberPanda
Banned
Carry on then.
Unknown Soldier
Member
The idea of "brand" determining what TV is good is generally obsolete. All the low-end and midrange TV's from the big names generally perform similarly. At the top end there is more variance, but often times TV's are more similar than they are different.
If you wish to come to an informed decision about if the TV you are looking at is good for gaming, start here:
https://www.rtings.com/
Things gamers care about:
Input lag - first and foremost. Most TV's have a Game Mode. Use it.
HDR support - if you care about this, make sure HDR works and has low lag in Game Mode.
Motion blur reduction - good midrange/top end TV's will support non-lag introducing methods like black frame insertion and backlight blinking.
Picture quality - well, I mean duh. If the picture looks like shit you won't enjoy gaming on it.
Do your research when looking at a set. Gaming on TV's has a very wide variance of quality and if you want to have a good experience, you'll have to use your own brain instead of be a fanboy and ignore the company name on the front and read about how good it really is.
If you wish to come to an informed decision about if the TV you are looking at is good for gaming, start here:
https://www.rtings.com/
Things gamers care about:
Input lag - first and foremost. Most TV's have a Game Mode. Use it.
HDR support - if you care about this, make sure HDR works and has low lag in Game Mode.
Motion blur reduction - good midrange/top end TV's will support non-lag introducing methods like black frame insertion and backlight blinking.
Picture quality - well, I mean duh. If the picture looks like shit you won't enjoy gaming on it.
Do your research when looking at a set. Gaming on TV's has a very wide variance of quality and if you want to have a good experience, you'll have to use your own brain instead of be a fanboy and ignore the company name on the front and read about how good it really is.
CyberPanda
Banned
Great post.
Chozofication_
Banned
Well it's really been settled I think, and is a nuanced topic. By all means if input lag is most important to you, go for it, and sacrifice some quality. But to suggest 10ms or thereabouts is some earth shattering difference, and overrides a significant quality bump, is the only thing I'm saying is silly.
Ah, sod it. 2019 lg oleds have the best everything, end of.
CyberPanda
Banned
Fair enough. You can’t go wrong with any OLED, whichever brand it is. They are all winners.Well it's really been settled I think, and is a nuanced topic. By all means if input lag is most important to you, go for it, and sacrifice some quality. But to suggest 10ms or thereabouts is some earth shattering difference, and overrides a significant quality bump, is the only thing I'm saying is silly.
Ah, sod it. 2019 lg oleds have the best everything, end of.
CyberPanda
Banned
I haven’t heard anything about a Nvidia tv. Are you referring to the G-Sync monitors?
Unknown Soldier
Member
Insofar as OLED TV's are concerned, remember that gaming frequently involves static elements like HUD's on the screen for hours at a time. Do your own research, and decide for yourself if an OLED TV is right for you.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test
https://www8.hp.com/us/en/displays-accessories/gaming/omen-x-emperium.html
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real-life-oled-burn-in-test
They came out. I hope you have money.
https://www8.hp.com/us/en/displays-accessories/gaming/omen-x-emperium.html
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CyberPanda
Banned
HUELEN10
Member
Out of current makers consistently? Vizio IMO.
1. Speedy sets, because to me lag is most important concern. Most sets within the same class report similar results, just do your research for one that fits your needs.
2. Good range of sizes and classes for various needs.
3. Great value at any size, for any price range.
4. Current sets support casting and AirPlay.
5. You don’t get crippled settings. Let me elaborate. On some Sammys I’ve used, turning on game mode means it’s locked into a shitty audio mode that tweaks the audio. On some Sony sets, it can do so odd backlighting thing that can cause issues for retro games with scalers. Out of all the major brands I’ve tried over the years, only Pannys and Vizios treat video settings as video settings, zoom settings as zoom settings, backlight settings as backlight settings, and sound routing as separate things without having to compromise one thing for another. This is especially useful if you want to use a TV as a monitor, or simply don’t want to use an external sound system.
6. Great out-of-box settings adjustment options, and easy enough to get into service mode should you need to.
1. Speedy sets, because to me lag is most important concern. Most sets within the same class report similar results, just do your research for one that fits your needs.
2. Good range of sizes and classes for various needs.
3. Great value at any size, for any price range.
4. Current sets support casting and AirPlay.
5. You don’t get crippled settings. Let me elaborate. On some Sammys I’ve used, turning on game mode means it’s locked into a shitty audio mode that tweaks the audio. On some Sony sets, it can do so odd backlighting thing that can cause issues for retro games with scalers. Out of all the major brands I’ve tried over the years, only Pannys and Vizios treat video settings as video settings, zoom settings as zoom settings, backlight settings as backlight settings, and sound routing as separate things without having to compromise one thing for another. This is especially useful if you want to use a TV as a monitor, or simply don’t want to use an external sound system.
6. Great out-of-box settings adjustment options, and easy enough to get into service mode should you need to.
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Chozofication_
Banned
So, by retro, what do you mean? For my n64, GC and Wii games I noticed no issues on my x900e. And what sets?
HUELEN10
Member
Linus did one, I think this is the same model.
I mean things 4th gen and below, even fed at native res, that might have certain problematic “patterns”. There’s something I test out that some refer to as the Kirby's Dream Course test. It is a 3/4 view golf game on a grid, and by holding left or right and moving the cursor around, the image should be steady, but on some sets with backlight options tied to contrast that you cannot disable, it causes the image to get bright and dim every other second. I don’t remember the particular Sony model I last check on for this that failed it, but I think the set was made in either 2016 or 2017.
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Chozofication_
Banned
CyberPanda
Banned
Thanks for the video Huelen.
SlaughterX
Banned
I would just like to say, that I own 2 OLEDs, both of which were used as computer monitors in addition to gaming and movie watching, and I have never experienced an issue with image retention. You have to be really careless for that to happen. Like leaving the static image on the TV ALL DAY. Most consoles/computers/stand alone blu-ray players have a screen saver or at least dim or lose signal after so long, in which case the TVs automatic "screen saver" kicks in (which is a just a series of vibrant pictures of various different scenic locations)... so in a nutshell, you would really have to try to mess up your TV with IR, by physically turning off screen savers then purposefully leaving it on a static screen all day.
Grinchy
Banned
I am a Samsung guy. I have a Samsung 46'' TV bought a decade ago that's still going strong. It even has extremely low input lag.
The only thing I know about Sony TVs is anecdotal, but still enough to scare me. My brother and sister have both bought expensive Bravias that died on them. So that's all I can think about when I hear about Sony TVs.
The only thing I know about Sony TVs is anecdotal, but still enough to scare me. My brother and sister have both bought expensive Bravias that died on them. So that's all I can think about when I hear about Sony TVs.
SlaughterX
Banned
Heh, people tend to swear off brands after they have an issue with one or they hear about someone else having an issue, but let's face it, all electronics have a failure rate, some higher than others, but generally, most higher end brands are pretty decent and it's rare to have a TV die on you or face major issues (though modern TVs in general aren't as die hard as most old school tube TVs that are still kicking ot this day).
I have owned most major brands of TVs... Panasonic plasmas, several Samsung LCDs, a couple of LG OLEDs, and a Mitsubishi DLP. The only issue I've ever had an issue with was the DLP, which were known to have issues with the light engine. Just because you happen to get a defective product doesn't mean that company makes trash products (generally), you just got a lemon.
Also grading a TV based on it's speakers is asinine....
I have owned most major brands of TVs... Panasonic plasmas, several Samsung LCDs, a couple of LG OLEDs, and a Mitsubishi DLP. The only issue I've ever had an issue with was the DLP, which were known to have issues with the light engine. Just because you happen to get a defective product doesn't mean that company makes trash products (generally), you just got a lemon.
Also grading a TV based on it's speakers is asinine....
CyberPanda
Banned
That's why its nice to get surround sound speakers, and all those worries go away.
CloudStrife_ca
Member
I do love my 50" Samsung UN50KU6270FXCZ, since I made the jump to UHD 4K, I've always been a Sony guy but I have no complaints with my current TV.
Mexen
Member
Are you willing to share some tier-based suggestions? Thanks.
CyberPanda
Banned
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-price/under-500 "The 5 Best 4k TVs Under $500 - April 2019"
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-price/under-1000 "The 5 Best 4k TVs Under $1,000 - Spring 2019"
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-price/under-1500 "The 5 Best 4k TVs Under $1,500 - Spring 2019"
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-price/under-2000 "The 6 Best 4k TVs Under $2,000 - Spring 2019"
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/by-resolution/1080p-full-hd "The 4 Best 1080p TVs - Spring 2019"
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/best/brands "The 5 Best TV Brands - April 2019"
More Here (just look at the top banner, and all the categories are there)
Mexen
Member
Very helpful. Thanks.
Ascend
Member
At bold part: It's the reason I said OLED first and Samsung second. The black levels and image quality of OLED can be argued to be worth the slightly higher input lag, at least in LG's case. If you game in the dark, OLED is definitely the best choice, provided you're not playing games that are prone to much burn-in.
Yes, Sony's local dimming for their LED TVs is superior to Samsung's. But if that comes at a cost of more input lag, then sorry, I prefer Samsung.
Considering the main aspect that differentiates games from other media is its interactivity, i.e. control input, input lag is (or at least should be) a very high priority. If you're playing turn based games, obviously not, but, gaming in general requires a low input lag. There is a reason RTings recommends the NU8000 over the X900F, as I already mentioned previously. The X900F is superior in EVERYTHING regarding visuals except input lag. They recognize the value that input lag has for gaming. Not only that, if you're going to use your TV as a PC monitor, you're still better off with the NU8000. It means that despite the so-called 'small' increase according to so many in here, it makes a significant difference. You can't tell me that I'm exaggerating the input lag difference.
Just to put things in perspective, using rtings data, this is the range (lowest and highest) input lag per brand, at different resolutions, from best to worst. Only 4K TVs have been used (no 1080p or 8K TVs). Also remember that at 60fps, one frame is 16.7ms.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/input-lag
1080p 60Hz;
LG LED: 10.7ms - 21.4ms
Samsung LED: 13.5ms - 22.8ms
TCL LED: 14.6ms - 28.7ms
Vizio LED: 15.3 ms - 23.9 ms
LG OLED: 21.1 ms - 21.4ms
Sony LED: 21.2 ms - 40.9ms
Sony OLED: 27.6 - 47.4 ms
1080p 120Hz;
Samsung LED: 9.3 ms - 11.1 ms
Vizio LED: 10.5 ms - 10.6 ms
Sony LED: 11.4 ms - 14.0 ms
LG LED: 13.8ms
LG OLED: 14.7 ms - 21.9 ms
Sony OLED: 19.9 ms - 21.0 ms
4K 60Hz;
LG LED: 10.9ms - 15.6ms
Samsung LED: 13.2 ms - 22.5
TCL LED: 14.9ms - 20.4ms
Vizio LED: 15.3ms - 23.9ms
LG OLED: 21.1ms - 21.4ms
Sony LED: 21.1ms - 35.5ms
Sony OLED: 28.1 ms - 30.8ms
Sony is consistently one of the lowest performers in terms of input lag. They don't have a single TV available that has less than one frame of input lag for 60 Hz/FPS. If you're gaming at 120 fps, which is a no-go if you have a console, then Sony is fine.
If you want to use interpolation, which actually can improve the gaming experience, it's even worse;
4K 60Hz with interpolation;
Samsung LED: 20.8 ms - 76.4 ms (majority are within the 20-30 ms range)
Sony LED: 68.9 ms - 99.3 ms
Vizio: 76.3 ms - 83.9 ms
LG LED: 84.7 ms - 134.6 ms
Sony OLED: 86.7 ms - 93.4 ms
LG OLED: 91.9 ms - 100.3 ms
Bottom line is... If you randomly pick a TV for gaming without doing any research at all, you're better off going with Samsung rather than anything else. Add in the fact that interpolation can only be viable for gaming with Samsung, and they're the only one that support FreeSync (which btw lowers input lag to below 7ms), they simply are better for gaming than Sony TVs. And considering that generally, LG OLEDs are better performers than Sony's, there's little reason to go for a Sony OLED TV.
You might ask why I don't recommend LG LEDs if all I look at is the input lag. The answer is, I don't only look at the input lag. The image quality that LG sacrifices for the input lag is just a tad too much, especially in the dark. The point is balance, and Samsung is more balanced in terms of image quality and input lag than any other brand out there. OLED is in another league regarding black levels, so, if that's your thing, OLED is your only choice, and there, LG is superior to Sony as well.
Factor in price, and one can even argue that Samsung is a better choice than OLED.
If you like the build quality or sound or whatever, that's a whole other story. For sound in particular, all TV speakers suck. But if you're talking about Sony's sound being superior, according to RTings, the NU8000 has superior sound to the X900F. If you really care about sound, you'll at least get a sound bar. Comparing TV sound quality is practically a bad joke nowadays.
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Chozofication_
Banned
This sounds like cognitive dissonance to me. So you're saying superior colors matter when it comes to oled vs. Sony fald, but not sony fald compared to a Samsung edge lit. 22ish MS lag on the (current) LG oled is "slightly higher" compared to 13ms on one of the current samsungs, but 30ish MS lag on x900e is an "atrocious difference". Clearly this arbitrary reasoning you're using is just meant to justify your purchase, but you don't need to do that to be happy with what you have. You're just comparing numbers while greatly exaggerating real use case impact.
I can apply sour grapes to the x900e vs. a 2017 lg oled as well ; the lcd's higher brightness meant that for hdr, you had better brightness contrast for hdr gaming, if HDR gaming was my highest priority (lol, it's not). But if I did that, that would be comparable to what you're doing here.
Bottom line is, TV's across the board are getting very, very good and there's no need to feel like you're missing out.
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Traxtech
Member
Try pick up a 2018 OLED(B8 or C8) on the cheap since new models will be out soon.
If you are susceptible to judder then OLED on 30 fps games might not be for you because of the "Sample and hold" style these have. Sony non-oled has superior motion due to the blur the TV does which smooths out lower fps content. Sony also has the best up scaling easily.
The 2019 OLEDs might be the best TV for gaming given the BFI (black frame insertion) is tweakable, meaning it won't get as dark and will smooth the issues presented by sample and hold, they'll also have 13-14ms input lag as well as going brighter than the 2018 OLEDs. Reviews will tell!
I would stay away from the 2017 oleds due to the update that made game mode incredibly dark, 2018 model is worth is for Dynamic tone mapping alone. Given i came from a B6 to a B8 and had them next to each other while me and my best mate played Anthem, the difference is staggering with that 1 setting in games. Both were calibrated professionally as well.
Samsungs are good as well, i purchased a 8000 series but had to ultimately return it due to flicker hurting my eyes because of the PWM back light.
But at the end of the day, it's about your budget. If you have money to burn go OLED, if you don't, pick up a lesser value Sony but make sure it isn't a model with poor input lag(then again if you aren't sensitive to input lag issues, this may not be an issue for you )
So many variables and everyone has their own opinions, but at the end of the day you would probably be content with whatever you buy since you're asking this question (providing it doesn't have terrible input lag that makes you unhappy)
Goodluck!
If you are susceptible to judder then OLED on 30 fps games might not be for you because of the "Sample and hold" style these have. Sony non-oled has superior motion due to the blur the TV does which smooths out lower fps content. Sony also has the best up scaling easily.
The 2019 OLEDs might be the best TV for gaming given the BFI (black frame insertion) is tweakable, meaning it won't get as dark and will smooth the issues presented by sample and hold, they'll also have 13-14ms input lag as well as going brighter than the 2018 OLEDs. Reviews will tell!
I would stay away from the 2017 oleds due to the update that made game mode incredibly dark, 2018 model is worth is for Dynamic tone mapping alone. Given i came from a B6 to a B8 and had them next to each other while me and my best mate played Anthem, the difference is staggering with that 1 setting in games. Both were calibrated professionally as well.
Samsungs are good as well, i purchased a 8000 series but had to ultimately return it due to flicker hurting my eyes because of the PWM back light.
But at the end of the day, it's about your budget. If you have money to burn go OLED, if you don't, pick up a lesser value Sony but make sure it isn't a model with poor input lag(then again if you aren't sensitive to input lag issues, this may not be an issue for you )
So many variables and everyone has their own opinions, but at the end of the day you would probably be content with whatever you buy since you're asking this question
(providing it doesn't have terrible input lag that makes you unhappy)Goodluck!
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Chozofication_
Banned
No motion blur (trailing) is a GOOD thing on OLED. There is no judder on properly frame paced 30fps, with or without motion blur. Honestly this is one of OLEDs biggest strengths. We've finally caught up to CRT in this regard(assuming said crt doesn't have aging phosphor.)
Traxtech
Member
If the game has no motion blur or extremely poor sampling and you're not used to it, it is very jarring. Alot of my friends who come from non OLED TV's get eye strain due to this until they adapt to it when they have come over for gaming sessions. That's the downside to poor motion resolution which apparently that new motion OLED screen LG is making can get up to plasma/CRT MR without the flicker involved.
I prefer it myself, but someone who isn't used to it might not like it
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Verdanth
Member
To be honest since I really started to think about TV's for gaming, I always went with Sony.
Had a Sony KDL-42w705b, which until this day is working like a charm and still delivers an amazing picture quality.
About a year ago, I upgraded to a 55KDXF9005. Amazing kickass TV also. It's not an OLED since at the time I read that OLED's tend to sooner or later (more later I know, but still...) show some burn-in marks, so...I stayed clear of those to be honest.
Managed to snug it for about 1100 €, so it was an incredible deal.
So yeah, for gaming TV's I'll always go with Sony.
Had a Sony KDL-42w705b, which until this day is working like a charm and still delivers an amazing picture quality.
About a year ago, I upgraded to a 55KDXF9005. Amazing kickass TV also. It's not an OLED since at the time I read that OLED's tend to sooner or later (more later I know, but still...) show some burn-in marks, so...I stayed clear of those to be honest.
Managed to snug it for about 1100 €, so it was an incredible deal.
So yeah, for gaming TV's I'll always go with Sony.
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Chozofication_
Banned
I admit that it can add some smoothness, but at the cost of image quality and temporal stability. In the end, you can adjust either way you roll. Not to mention, I would say the majority of games today have motion blur, and all 2d games are usually 60fps anyway.
But good to know LG is still improving oled.
SlaughterX
Banned
Best TV For Gaming: LG B8 - rtings
*drops mic
Technically according to Rtings, the best TV for gaming is the Samsung Q900R, which is an 8k TV, followed by the Vizio P Quantum Series, then 3 LG OLEDs, another Vizo, then the Sony A9 (which is their OLED).
*drops mic
Technically according to Rtings, the best TV for gaming is the Samsung Q900R, which is an 8k TV, followed by the Vizio P Quantum Series, then 3 LG OLEDs, another Vizo, then the Sony A9 (which is their OLED).
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