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[Parallax]

Are you really trying to pretend like the comic film market back then wasn't a poor space to be making a movie in? We're talking about a market that had had basically a handful of successful movies in DECADES, (Superman 1-3, batman 1-2, MILDLY blade, but he's not exactly a superhero in that sense). The X-men were popular with kids thanks to the cartoon but they weren't exactly some crazy well known property. Heck, marvel didn't really have many of those at all in the pop culture sense. Spiderman was as close as they got and even he was nothing compared to DC's juggernauts back then.

Trying to reduce the argument to "It's an action movie" is ridiculous, it's like saying any random Sci Fi movie is an action movie - yes it has action, but there's a large difference between Die Hard and X-men. X-men really blew the whole genre open from nothing (I know it's cheeky to pretend blade did that, but again Blade wasn't even close to X-men in terms of success, and he's not a spandexy superhero type in the first place. Doubltful that the average audience even realized he was a comic character).

like?

 

[Discotheque]

you act like there wasnt a market for action movies at the time, or like x-men did something that had never been done before

it certainly laid a blueprint that was later improved upon by nolan. and are you really gonna tell me that launching a comic book movie in 2000 wasn't seen as a risky endeavor?

look at how barren the DC and Marvel output was until x-men and then later spiderman and x2 opened the floodgates.

it's hilarious how averse you are to giving even the smallest shred of credit to this movie haha.

 

[excelsiorlef]

you act like there wasnt a market for action movies at the time, or like x-men did something that had never been done before

Blade, X-Men and Spider-Man literally paved the way for comic book movies.

 

[jadedm17]

This will be good in the long run.

 

[Experien]

I don't think it is Marvel pissed, it is Disney being petty. They are the ones who got the copyright ruled up and going because Mickey Mouse.

Also, Marvel put out toys for X-Men movies up until Disney bought them. The last X-Men toy line was for Origins: Wolverine and then Disney got the rights and stopped it from happening any more (with rare exceptions).

 

[TheYanger]

like?

Like one is a dude shooting at terrorists with a gun, the other is about a science fiction group of characters with different superhuman powers that wear colorful outfits and jetset around the world fighting other superhuman characters?

I mean, you're intentionally being this obtuse, right?

 

[Prompto]

Blade, X-Men and Spider-Man literally paved the way for comic book movies.

Not to mention the first X-Men movie is how Kevin Feige ended up working at Marvel. So the MCU might not have even happened.

 

[diaspora]

Fox does more than bank off X-men movies, they actually make good ones too.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

Fox does more than bank off X-men movies, they actually make good ones too.

Yeah, but not reliably.




But still much better than they do with Fantastic Four.

 

[TheYanger]

Fox does more than bank off X-men movies, they actually make good ones too.

If by that you mean that they have, at times, produced some good x-men movies, then sure. If you mean as a rule that they do, this is the part where we throw our heads back and laugh.

 

[Parallax]

it certainly laid a blueprint that was later improved upon by nolan. and are you really gonna tell me that launching a comic book movie in 2000 wasn't seen as a risky endeavor?

look at how barren the DC and Marvel output was until x-men and then later spiderman and x2 opened the floodgates.

launching a pure comic movie in 2000? sure theres a risk. but im not gonna sit here and act like fox fully embraced making a comic movie with their first. as much as i dispise the lead, spider man went all in with its license.

Blade, X-Men and Spider-Man literally paved the way for comic book movies.

i recognize blade for being the first, and spider man for being the first to try to take it seriously

Like one is a dude shooting at terrorists with a gun, the other is about a science fiction group of characters with different superhuman powers that wear colorful outfits and jetset around the world fighting other superhuman characters?

I mean, you're intentionally being this obtuse, right?

so you boil die hard down to its bare elements, but make exceptions for xmen, when theyre both led by bitter old men refusing to change in a world that has fighting terrorists? where the main core difference is that theres a team element in xmen?

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

wow now I want xmen in mcu more than ever

forget movies, magneto/storm/sentinel not being allowed in marvel vs capcom is not right. NOT RIGHT

maybe they'll cut the sony deal after logan bombs

Logan ain't bombing. That trailer is winning a lot of people and people already like Hugh Jackman as Wolverine.

 

[Experien]

Fox does more than bank off X-men movies, they actually make good ones too.

cheers to that!

But still much better than they do with Fantastic Four.

You know Fox doesn't own Fantastic Four. Just FYI.

 

[Discotheque]

Fox does more than bank off X-men movies, they actually make good ones too.

they have both some of the best marvel output and the worst in their camp of films. 3 garbage fantastic four movies in a row. i'm amazed they haven't bothered to sell that property already.

edit: oh damn, you're one of those "gatekeepers of comic properties".

 

[LionPride]

Fox does more than bank off X-men movies, they actually make good ones too.

When

 

[ElBoxyBrown]

they have both some of the best marvel output and the worst in their camp of films. 3 garbage fantastic four movies in a row. i'm amazed they haven't bothered to sell that property already.

Fear of shame. Fox saw what Marvel did with Daredevil and were shook.

 

[Unspeakable Evil]

"What is the deal with Marvel and the X-Men?" You choose now to ask something that's been going on for like 4 years?

 

[TheYanger]

launching a pure comic movie in 2000? sure theres a risk. but im not gonna sit here and act like fox fully embraced making a comic movie with their first. as much as i dispise the lead, spider man went all in with its license.



i recognize blade for being the first, and spider man for being the first to try to take it seriously

Blade is basically not a comic book movie though. Perhaps it would be better to define them as superhero movies. I mean, you could have made a Die Hard comic first and turned it into a movie, it would then be a 'comic book' movie, but Blade was just a vampire movie with Wesley Snipes.

 

[excelsiorlef]

i recognize blade for being the first, and spider man for being the first to try to take it seriously

Lol ok whatever just ignore X-Men's contributions... it's clear you can't be convinced

 

[BronsonLee]

"What is the deal with Marvel and the X-Men?" You choose now to ask something that's been going on for like 4 years?

It's Mahvel baby

 

[Parallax]

Lol ok whatever just ignore X-Men's contributions... it's clear you can't be convinced

its not my fault that fox is afraid of the franchise that it owns

 

[excelsiorlef]

When

X2
First Class
The Wolverine
DoFP
Deadpool

Are all great to fantastic.

X1 is solid.

The only true disasters are X3 and Origins Wolverine with Apocalypse being a misstep but not horrendous.

its not my fault that fox is afraid of the franchise that it owns

What?

What does that even mean?

 

[Callibretto]

I don't think it is Marvel pissed, it is Disney being petty. They are the ones who got the copyright ruled up and going because Mickey Mouse.

Also, Marvel put out toys for X-Men movies up until Disney bought them. The last X-Men toy line was for Origins: Wolverine and then Disney got the rights and stopped it from happening any more (with rare exceptions).

pretty sure Marvel still make X-Men toys with their Marvel Legends line, and they're all really good too, I've been tempted to buy quite a few of them.

edit: yup, just a quick google and they just showed the new X-Men marvel legends line with pretty cool classic Cyclops and Colossus

 

[watership]

Marvel should at least have some input on the films if they can't get the rights back. It's the only reason people give a shit about another iteration of Spiderman from the hacks at Sony.

Fox has fucked fantastic four multiple times, is likely going to need a second reboot of the X-Men franchise soon, and lucked into deadpool being a success. Really wasted that Hugh Jackman casting when you look back too.

Disney should just buy the shit back, they've got money.

The second they made an offer, Fox would want it tripped, knowing that Disney wants it. The Key thing here is Kevin Feige. He has worked on many the Fox and Sony films as a producer or consultant going back to the first X-Men. He constantly battled bad decisions and directions with both Sony and Fox. He has given his input and it has been both heeded but probably mostly ignored. Especially about story and characters. When he finally got full creative control, we got the MCU.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

its not my fault that fox is afraid of the franchise that it owns

They were doing an adaptation of God Loves, Man Kills at a point where most other studios weren't even touching comic book characters with a ten foot pole.

They've made some missteps along the way, a few of them pretty disastrous. But it seems crazy to claim that they're "afraid" of the franchise.

 

[breakfuss]

lol Disney/Marvel petty af

 

[Discotheque]

its not my fault that fox is afraid of the franchise that it owns

this bizarrely has nothing to do with the point being argued in here.

 

[RareFantasy64]

The X-men are my favorite corner of superhero stories and Cyclops is my fav superhero but I wish Disney would go all out and cancel all X-men stories, cut them out of the comic universe, stop any and all X-men merchandising they can. If their reasoning for putting a mild effort into X-men comics is to hurt their appeal, thereby hurting Fox and the film environment, then just go all out and get rid of them in the comics. Because I'm tired of the comics doing nothing with X-men, no new X-men cartoons, etc. Just get rid of them and let's see if it causes Fox to either make an amazing X-men cinematic universe in response or if it will play a role in Fox and Marvel working something out

 

[GuileBootCamp]

I'm a huge Gambit fan, but there's no way a Gambit movie is going to have a $150m budget. Maybe production and marketing budget combined, but not just production. There are a few directions a Gambit movie could go and work well (X-Men vol. 2 #33, Asmus ongoing series, first arc of the Nicieza ongoing, a heavily reworked version of the first Gambit miniseries, or even an Uncanny #266-267 adaptation), but none of them require a budget any higher than what Deadpool got.

Also, the X-Men movie continuity needs to be rebooted after Logan and be based on the 90s team. This is the time to do it, with Deadpool in the new continuity since it wouldn't break anything more than Deadpool generally does anyway.

 

[Sandfox]

The X-men are my favorite corner of superhero stories and Cyclops is my fav superhero but I wish Disney would go all out and cancel all X-men stories, cut them out of the comic universe, stop any and all X-men merchandising they can. If their reasoning for putting a mild effort into X-men comics is to hurt their appeal, thereby hurting Fox and the film environment, then just go all out and get rid of them in the comics. Because I'm tired of the comics doing nothing with X-men, no new X-men cartoons, etc. Just get rid of them and let's see if it causes Fox to either make an amazing X-men cinematic universe in response or if it will play a role in Fox and Marvel working something out

Why would Fox care about what the comics are doing and why would Marvel think that the comics have any effect on the appeal of the movies?

 

[LionPride]

X2
First Class
The Wolverine
DoFP
Deadpool

Are all great to fantastic.

X1 is solid.

The only true disasters are X3 and Origins Wolverine with Apocalypse being a misstep but not horrendous.

X2 - Outside of the two action sequences with Nightcrawler and Wolverine that movie ain't shit, it's alright

First Class, I like it, but that's because of the actors and the fact it doesn't feel like an X-Men movie. It's decent

The Wolverine, a good film, then it becomes an X-Men film and becomes shit

DoFP, one of the most boring films I've ever seen I hate it

Deadpool isn't an X-Men movie

X1 ain't shit

 

[shaowebb]

It sounded to me more like they want the Marvel characters to reflect the MCU, i.e. promote the movies. They're not going to promote other studios' movies.

But if you wanna get conspiracy-minded about it: diminishing those brands could make it easier to get them back?

THIS. Notice that they are running B-listers and really gimmicky X-men stuff in the comics? They devalue it enough they can get it back then put it back to rights easy enough. That is if they are actually doing this on purpose...condition of Marvel is sketchy these days. To many coat tail riders swapping gimmicks for a push.

 

[GuileBootCamp]

First Class, I like it, but that's because of the actors and the fact it doesn't feel like an X-Men movie. It's decent

I agree with this. First Class is the only one I consider to be a legit good, but not great movie, but I still don't think we've ever had a good X-Men movie.

 

[Sandfox]

I'm a huge Gambit fan, but there's no way a Gambit movie is going to have a $150m budget. Maybe production and marketing budget combined, but not just production. There are a few directions a Gambit movie could go and work well (X-Men vol. 2 #33, Asmus ongoing series, first arc of the Nicieza ongoing, a heavily reworked version of the first Gambit miniseries, or even an Uncanny #266-267 adaptation), but none of them require a budget any higher than what Deadpool got.

Also, the X-Men movie continuity needs to be rebooted after Logan and be based on the 90s team. This is the time to do it, with Deadpool in the new continuity since it wouldn't break anything more than Deadpool generally does anyway.

I would be shocked if the Gambit movie actually happened.

 

[GuileBootCamp]

I would be shocked if the Gambit movie actually happened.

I'd all but given up hope, but every time I think they're gonna shitcan it for good, they say it's still happening.

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

I believe Spider-Man's licensing rights were also given back to Marvel by Sony as part of a deal, so that's another reason why even though another company owns the movie rights Spider-Man still appears on merchandise everywhere.

I can only imagine that Deadpool makes Marvel a lot of money, mainly because he appears in so much merchandise.

Full merchandising licensing for spiderman was reacquired in 2011. The 2015 deal is just for the movie rights.

Fox needs to let Disney license the characters and just laugh all the way to the bank. Doesn't take a genius to figure this shit out.

Disney doesn't want Fox to "let them" license the characters they own the rights to. They want to reacquire those rights. Spiderman is an exception to the rule, but even then Disney might be playing the long game to reacquire it.

I mean really what needs to happen is Marvel needs to cut Grant Morrison a blank check and let the dude have complete control over the X books for the next five years, and then once he leaves, not IMMEDIATELY destroy everything he did.

That would only happen if they have all movies (and possibly TV) rights to the characters. Remember, everything they create, including stories and characters to the lore that Fox owns the movie rights to, Fox can go ahead and create a movie based on that.

I'm not sure why Disney won't pay what it takes to get the rights back to marvels properties. Fox should see the x-men movies are going downhill. Dead pool was a hit, but it could have very much been a fluke that paid off once.

Not that simple.

Iger: "I want to buy the FF and XMen live action movie rights back"
Murdoch: "10 billion dollars"
Iger: "Fuck you"

And the Legion show too.

We still don't know what exactly Marvel/Disney got from signing off on that.

 

[vinnygambini]

What?

What does that even mean?

Guy is just a strange cookie.

X-Men Apocalypse topped out at $534 million.

$544M YOU LIAR!

 

[MHWilliams]

I don't understand why Disney doesn't just cut a check to Fox and just end this. They pretty much rule the world and have the money to get their property's back.

Because at the point Fox would sell, it becomes not worth it for Marvel. Better to let Fox drive it into the ground and keep pumping out hits.

X-Men Apocalypse topped out at $534 million. It's number 3 for the entire franchise. Days of Future Past did $747 million. Deadpool is #1 at $782 million.

Now look at Marvel. Dr. Strange is #3 at the box office with $617 million worldwide. Doctor Strange. Ant-Man is only $20 million away from Apocalypse and Thor 2 did better, despite being boring as hell.

Think like a businessperson. Why should Marvel care about the X-Men enough to pay the crazy price tag Fox would put on it?

Also, Marvel put out toys for X-Men movies up until Disney bought them. The last X-Men toy line was for Origins: Wolverine and then Disney got the rights and stopped it from happening any more (with rare exceptions).

Because until Disney bought them, Marvel was the underdog.

They aren't now.

People are trying to tie emotions to this. There are none. This is business. Marvel is pushing what it owns top to bottom.

 

[Parallax]

this bizarrely has nothing to do with the point being argued in here.

it has to do with my point of it seeming like a generic action movie with comic named characters than it does an actual comic book movie.

 

[GuileBootCamp]

I wonder what the reaction would be if Fox rebooted the X-Men series with a faithful movie adaptation of Night of the Sentinels.

That should be their "break glass in case of emergency" movie.

I don't personally know a lifelong X-Men fan that didn't wear out that Pizza Hut VHS.

 

[crackhead_bob]

If Disney were to get creative control of both X-Men and Fantastic Four, would they do a complete reboot of them or a soft continuation of the Singer X-Verse?

 

[AnotherDayAnotherDollar]

Because at the point Fox would sell, it becomes not worth it for Marvel. Better to let Fox drive it into the ground and keep pumping out hits.

X-Men Apocalypse topped out at $534 million. It's number 3 for the entire franchise. Days of Future Past did $747 million. Deadpool is #1 at $782 million.

Now look at Marvel. Dr. Strange is #3 at the box office with $617 million worldwide. Doctor Strange. Ant-Man is only $20 million away from Apocalypse and Thor 2 did better, despite being boring as hell.

Think like a businessperson. Why should Marvel care about the X-Men enough to pay the crazy price tag Fox would put on it?



Because until Disney bought them, Marvel was the underdog.

They aren't now.

People are trying to tie emotions to this. There are none. This is business. Marvel is pushing what it owns top to bottom.

You can close the thread now. Perfect, reasonable post.

If Disney were to get creative control of both X-Men and Fantastic Four, would they do a complete reboot of them or a soft continuation of the Singer X-Verse?

Reboot that convoluted crap and never look back on it.

 

[Callibretto]

Because at the point Fox would sell, it becomes not worth it for Marvel. Better to let Fox drive it into the ground and keep pumping out hits.

X-Men Apocalypse topped out at $534 million. It's number 3 for the entire franchise. Days of Future Past did $747 million. Deadpool is #1 at $782 million.

Now look at Marvel. Dr. Strange is #3 at the box office with $617 million worldwide. Doctor Strange. Ant-Man is only $20 million away from Apocalypse and Thor 2 did better, despite being boring as hell.

Think like a businessperson. Why should Marvel care about the X-Men enough to pay the crazy price tag Fox would put on it?
.

Yeah, even if we're talking about fantastic four which is losing money for Fox, I'm sure Fox will demand a lot of money from Disney, reasoning that Fantastic Four would be a billion dollars franchise under Disney...

 

[Dark Ninja]

lol Disney/Marvel petty af

Um they are being smart. Why would you promote something that makes you little to no money. The goal is to get the rights back eventually they got Ghost Rider, Punisher, and Daredevil back. It could take 100 years but they may get them back one day. Marvel doesn't NEED the X-Men and its in their best interest to have the other companies come to them for deals or even want to sell the characters back because of failed movies or not enough profit etc.

 

[TaterTots]

Basically, FOX. I hope one day soon Marvel/Disney has full rights. I think they would do better. Deadpool can stay with Fox though. Not sure if Marvel/Disney would do a R rated movie.

 

[vinnygambini]

Reboot that convoluted crap and never look back on it.

Storm played by Beyonce.

 

[RareFantasy64]

If Disney were to get creative control of both X-Men and Fantastic Four, would they do a complete reboot of them or a soft continuation of the Singer X-Verse?

They rebooted Spider-man. for his inclusion into the MCU

 

[Hero]

Comic books were a mistake, they're nothing but trash. Shit on your fans to maximize profit.

 

[Jorok Goldblade]

If Disney were to get creative control of both X-Men and Fantastic Four, would they do a complete reboot of them or a soft continuation of the Singer X-Verse?

Mutants would be a sub-species of Inhumans who produce their own Terrigen.

 

[KuwabaraTheMan]

Mutants would be a sub-species of Inhumans who produce their own Terrigen.

If Disney got the film rights to the X-Men back, the Inhumans would be dropped immediately.