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[Alphagear]

Not sure about America but in the UK any crime committed by a Muslim gets the right wing media including social media to blame Islam.

Their religion and ethnicity is specifically highlighted.

Muslim robber, Muslim rapist etc.

Why would the case be any different with my example above?

 

[Alphagear]

Terrorism is terrorism in my opinion regardless of motive.

Personally thinks its irrelevant discussing the motives when the result is the same.

Innocent people losing their lives in mass murder.

 

[MultiCore]

Terrorism is terrorism in my opinion regardless of motive.

Personally thinks its irrelevant discussing the motives when the result is the same.

Innocent people losing their lives in mass murder.

It's literally motive that defines terrorism.

You either mistake all violence for terrorism, or you're part of the group that wants to change its meaning.

The outcome of you being scared is irrelevant to the definition of terrorism.

ter·ror·ism

1. the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
   "the fight against terrorism"

 

[llien]

Where is this occuring?

Well, Ukraine? War against combined pro-Russian separatist + Russians is officially called "anti-terrorist operation".

Term became popular after "war on terror" by G. Bush, a term criticized by Zbigniew Brzezinski, who thinks it makes as much sense as "war on Blitzkrieg". Terrorism is merely a tactic.

 

[Alphagear]

It's literally motive that defines terrorism.

You either mistake all violence for terrorism, or you're part of the group that wants to change its meaning.

The outcome of you being scared is irrelevant to the definition of terrorism.

ter·ror·ism

1. the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
   "the fight against terrorism"

Theres a massive grey area though.

Like i said, what if a muslim with no political/religious aims carries out mass murder.

What would they be labelled?

We already have ism's for many of these groups.

Islamism, Nazism etc.

 

[Relativ9]

Theres a massive grey area though.

Like i said, what if a muslim with no political/religious aims carries out mass murder.

What would they be labelled?

We already have ism's for many of these groups.

Islamism, Nazism etc.

Again, just because you say they would be labeled a Terrorist doesn't mean they are one. If people are misusing the word terrorist and labeling regular violent crime as terrorism despite the lack of an ideological motive (which I have no problem believing btw) then that's shitty, and those people are dumb. But like I said earlier, we don't change the meaning of words to fit idiots' misinterpretations of them (well except for the word 'literally' ). Regardless, I think you'd have to search long and hard before you found someone on here that thought every violent crime committed by a Muslim was terrorism. So it's neither the accepted dictionary definition of the word, nor something that has support in this community, so kind of pointless to keep harping on.

 

[mckmas8808]

Because if you redefine the term, then suddenly there isnt an overwhelming representation of muslim offenders in the catagory.

Except that's what many people also want to believe. They want to believe that the term is basically "reserved" for brown people of the Muslim faith and not for people that look like them that they share a faith with.

 

[Relativ9]

Except that's what many people also want to believe. They want to believe that the term is basically "reserved" for brown people of the Muslim faith and not for people that look like them that they share a faith with.

Yeah but the solution to that is to remind them of people like the Unabomber and Anders Behring Breivik, not to redefine the term.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Theres a massive grey area though.

Like i said, what if a muslim with no political/religious aims carries out mass murder.

What would they be labelled?

We already have ism's for many of these groups.

Islamism, Nazism etc.

Based off the evidence, I (controversially) do not classify the Pulse shooting as terrorism. Omar never had any real political leanings or ideology demonstrated beyond a feeble "This is for ISIS" note, and all the rumors of him being closeted and having dated some men who frequented the club point to it more as someone snapping from stress (due to how his fundamentalist family would react), with the note as a cover. Even though he targeted a specific group, following my theory he is not a terrorist, but just someone who went crazy.

I would classify Dylan Roof as a terrorist, because he targeted a specific group based on his ideology of white supremacism.

I'm not sure where the idea that Muslims are disproportionately labeled "terrorists" comes from. Muslims are disproportionately involved in terrorist attacks with regards to the size of the moderate population compared to other groups, but at the same time other groups have their own, ah, murderous niches. Serial killers and mass shooters are mostly middle-age white males, for example. School shooters are mostly bullied middle class white males. This does not make the "serial killer" label or the "mass shooter" label discriminatory.

 

[dragonfart28]

Get rid of the label altogether.

This term to redress certain acts of violence based religion or political ideology hasn't really done anything productive for us as far as I can tell.

It only seems to bring negative attention which propagates the idea that terrorism is some flourishing trend when it's not.

 

[Dunki]

Get rid of the label altogether.

This term to redress certain acts of violence based religion or political ideology hasn't really done anything productive for us as far as I can tell.

It only seems to bring negative attention which propagates the idea that terrorism is some flourishing trend when it's not.

Terrorism is the biggest threat in the World these days so no we should not get of such a definition ever. And yes there is a reason why terrorism today is mostly used in combination with Islam and that is because f the Raise of Radical Islamism since the 60/70

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm not sure where the idea that Muslims are disproportionately labeled "terrorists" comes from. Muslims are disproportionately involved in terrorist attacks with regards to the size of the moderate population compared to other groups, but at the same time other groups have their own, ah, murderous niches. Serial killers and mass shooters are mostly middle-age white males, for example. School shooters are mostly bullied middle class white males. This does not make the "serial killer" label or the "mass shooter" label discriminatory.

Terrorism is the biggest threat in the World these days so no we should not get of such a definition ever. And yes there is a reason why terrorism today is mostly used in combination with Islam and that is because f the Raise of Radical Islamism since the 60/70

Are we sure these things are true? That terrorism and islam are the leaders of terrorism? Or are we as Americans only/mostly counting their acts as terrorism and not the others?

 

[dragonfart28]

Terrorism is the biggest threat in the World these days

Ladders are a bigger threat than terrorism

 

[infinitys_7th]

Are we sure these things are true? That terrorism and islam are the leaders of terrorism? Or are we as Americans only/mostly counting their acts as terrorism and not the others?

This data is a few years old, so you can add a little to both:

http://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremism-islamist-terrorism-donald-trump-steve-bannon-628381

A joint project by the Investigative Fund at the Nation Institute, a nonprofit media center, and Reveal from the Center for Investigative Reporting has found that within the past nine years, right-wing extremists plotted or carried out nearly twice as many terrorist attacks as Islamist extremists. Of the 115 right-wing incidents, police only foiled 35 percent. Compare this to the 63 Islamist terrorism cases, where police foiled 76 percent of the planned attacks.

There are 198,000,000 white people in the US and roughly 3,000,000 Muslims in the US, thus you have you have a population 1.5% the size of the larger population committing half the number of attacks which the larger population committed.

If you want to look at the rates within the extremist populations themselves, then you have to use a model:

115 attacks = e_w * x_w * 198,000,000 moderate white people
63 attacks = e_m * x_m * 3,000,000 moderate Muslims

where

e_w = average number of attacks per white extremist
x_w = average number of white extremists per moderate white person
e_m = average number of attacks per Muslim extremist
x_m = average number of white extremists per moderate Muslim person

thus

5.8*10^-7 = e_w * x_w
2.1*10^-5 = e_m * x_m

Obviously e_m and/or x_m must be relatively larger than e_w and/or x_w to make up the difference. You could call e*x an indicator of relative contribution to terrorist attacks, with a higher value indicating more contribution.

Ladders are a bigger threat than terrorism

Pretty much. More people are killed by bathrooms each year than from any kind of terrorism in the US.

Most of the argument over numbers with regards to terrorism is over <20 deaths per year (not counting 9/11). It is not something anyone should worry about regularly.

 

[mckmas8808]

This data is a few years old, so you can add a little to both:

http://www.newsweek.com/right-wing-extremism-islamist-terrorism-donald-trump-steve-bannon-628381



There are 198,000,000 white people in the US and roughly 3,000,000 Muslims in the US, thus you have you have a population 1.5% the size of the larger population committing half the number of attacks which the larger population committed.

If you want to look at the rates within the extremist populations themselves, then you have to use a model:

115 attacks = e_w * x_w * 198,000,000 moderate white people
63 attacks = e_m * x_m * 3,000,000 moderate Muslims

where

e_w = average number of attacks per white extremist
x_w = average number of white extremists per moderate white person
e_m = average number of attacks per Muslim extremist
x_m = average number of white extremists per moderate Muslim person

thus

5.8*10^-7 = e_w * x_w
2.1*10^-5 = e_m * x_m

Obviously e_m and/or x_m must be relatively larger than e_w and/or x_w to make up the difference. You could call e*x an indicator of relative contribution to terrorist attacks, with a higher value indicating more contribution.

Oh I didn't think we were just keeping this to America's numbers only. And do you personally feel okay with the view of attacks on America from white people, and then seeing police chiefs tell you that there was no motive within a day or so of the killer dying?

Like are we sure the Austin bomber didn't have a motive?

 

[Dunki]

Ladders are a bigger threat than terrorism

Ladders also kill more than Guns so? Seriously this was always a weak argument. Ladders do not scare people ladders do not try to change political systems through violence and fear.

Are we sure these things are true? That terrorism and islam are the leaders of terrorism? Or are we as Americans only/mostly counting their acts as terrorism and not the others?

America has almost no Islamic terrorism but I am not from the US I am from Europe Also let us not forget all these attacks in the middle east and all over islamic countries as well. Radical Islam is in my opinion the biggest threat in the world.

If you only talk about America then of course not.

 

[dragonfart28]

Ladders also kill more than Guns so? Seriously this was always a weak argument. Ladders do not scare people ladders do not try to change political systems trhough violence and fear.

I'm certainly more afraid of a ladder than I am of terrorism, and that's already very little to begin with.

I recognize the likelihood or probability of harm of terrorism to be very minute, but many people do not.

It's not worth expending resources because they have illegitimate boogey men under their beds.

America has almost no Islamic terrorism but I am not from the US I am from Europe Also let us not forget all these attacks in the middle east and all over islamic countries as well. Radical Islam is in my opinion the biggest threat in the world.

History’s lessons are clear: Terrorists aim to provoke overreaction, so that their numbers will swell. If you don’t fall for the illusion, they remain puny. Dedicated intelligence and policing can dismantle terrorist networks. Mass round ups, political hysteria, revenge attacks, and in the most grievous extreme, invasion of a country that harbored neither international terrorist cells nor weapons of mass destruction only makes matters worse.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-naff/three-simple-truths-about_b_8568518.html

 

[infinitys_7th]

Oh I didn't think we were just keeping this to America's numbers only. And do you personally feel okay with the view of attacks on America from white people, and then seeing police chiefs tell you that there was no motive within a day or so of the killer dying?

Like are we sure the Austin bomber didn't have a motive?

America is what I am concerned with because that is where I live. Policy in the Middle East does not really effect me, as long as the US does not intervene in it.

Why is it odd that the police announced no motive a few days after the bomber died? They listened to his confession/manifesto and found no mention of ideology. His attacks were indiscriminate (random trip wires, targeted both white and minority neighborhoods, random attack in warehouse).

Unless you have evidence to the contrary, beyond the bomber incidentally being Christian or incidentally being white or incidentally holding views similar to 30-40% of the population, the police statement indicates the motive - killing people for non-ideological reasons.

 

[Dunki]

I'm certainly more afraid of a ladder than I am of terrorism, and that's already very little to begin with.

I recognize the likelihood or probability of harm of terrorism to be very minute, but many people do not.

It's not worth expending resources because they have illegitimate boogey men under their beds.





https://www.huffingtonpost.com/clay-naff/three-simple-truths-about_b_8568518.html

The devastating toll of terror attacks is laid bare today with a shocking study revealing the number of people slaughtered worldwide has risen by 80 per cent in a year.

A total of 32,658 people were killed by terrorists around the world in 2014 - an 80 per cent increase on the previous year, according to the Global Terrorism Index.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322308/Number-people-killed-terrorists-worldwide-soars-80-just-year.html

It is always great to live in a Country which has nothing to do with Terrorism. Terrorism is all over the world and not only in your neighbor town. But I guess all these 35k victims each year are just not that important to you.

 

[mckmas8808]

America is what I am concerned with because that is where I live. Policy in the Middle East does not really effect me, as long as the US does not intervene in it.

Why is it odd that the police announced no motive a few days after the bomber died? They listened to his confession/manifesto and found no mention of ideology. His attacks were indiscriminate (random trip wires, targeted both white and minority neighborhoods, random attack in warehouse).

Unless you have evidence to the contrary, beyond the bomber incidentally being Christian or incidentally being white or incidentally holding views similar to 30-40% of the population, the police statement indicates the motive - killing people for non-ideological reasons.

Because the investigation just started days ago. Why the need to rush to a conclusion when even he admits that they are still investigating it?

 

[infinitys_7th]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322308/Number-people-killed-terrorists-worldwide-soars-80-just-year.html

It is always great to live in a Country which has nothing to do with Terrorism. Terrorism is all over the world and not only in your neighbor town. But I guess all these 35k victims each year are just not that important to you.

To be honest, you are talking about 35,000 attacks coming out of 7,000,000,000 people from a massive heterogeneous population.

You are never going to fully eliminate all wrong in the world, particularly as the population increases evermore. The law of large numbers guarantees that. When we have 700,000,000,000 people on Earth, I'd expect 3,500,000 attacks each year, and it would be the same problematically as it is now.

Per your numbers, the worldwide attacks per capita is just one order of magnitude larger than that in the US. I'm kind of surprised given the conditions most of the world lives in.

 

[infinitys_7th]

Because the investigation just started days ago. Why the need to rush to a conclusion when even he admits that they are still investigating it?

He said that the confession tape held no mention of hate.

As I said in the topic on this, part of the reason is to relieve fears within minority communities which were stoked by irresponsible tabloid-esque journalism promoting that the attacks were racially-motivated.

 

[dragonfart28]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3322308/Number-people-killed-terrorists-worldwide-soars-80-just-year.html

It is always great to live in a Country which has nothing to do with Terrorism. Terrorism is all over the world and not only in your neighbor town. But I guess all these 35k victims each year are just not that important to you.

You're using total numbers when you should be going by percentages per 100,000 people.

 

[Dunki]

To be honest, you are talking about 35,000 attacks coming out of 7,000,000,000 people from a massive heterogeneous population.

You are never going to fully eliminate all wrong in the world, particularly as the population increases evermore. The law of large numbers guarantees that. When we have 700,000,000,000 people on Earth, I'd expect 3,500,000 attacks each year, and it would be the same problematically as it is now.

Per your numbers, the worldwide attacks per capita is just one order of magnitude larger than that in the US. I'm kind of surprised given the conditions most of the world lives in.

ARe you serious right now?

Why do people complain now about gun laws or police brutality if only so few people die?

Here is the problem with Terrorism and the goal of terrorism. The goal of Terrorism is to make you feel scared to live your life. Go to church, go to work feel insecure in your own country. It has far more effect on the people who survived, who live in these regions etc. Even in Country like Germany has changed now. You have more controls, you see more police walking around, women are more scared to go out alone. You can not take backpacks to big gatherings anymore and so on. Fuck I do not want to live in a world like.

You're using total numbers when you should be going by percentages per 100,000 people.

Cool then also use total numbers for people dying by guns in America or by the Police. Why should I care about these few black people who got shot by the police? Its not even in my country.

Seriously I give up. If you want to ignore these problems be my guest and see how the alt right rises even more in power around the world.

Have a nice day.

 

[infinitys_7th]

ARe you serious right now?

Why do people complain now about gun laws or police brutality if only so few people die?

Here is the problem with Terrorism and the goal of terrorism. The goal of Terrorism is to make you feel scared to live your life. Go to church, go to work feel insecure in your own country. It has far more effect on the people who survived, who live in these regions etc. Even in Country like Germany has changed now. You have more controls, you see more police walking around, women are more scared to go out alone. You can not take backpacks to big gatherings anymore and so on. Fuck I do not want to live in a world like.

It is still a relatively small problem in the world, and most of it is localized to developing regions.

And, most of the time, it trickles of those regions due to Western interventionist policy stoking the flames and controlling their governments. Like when the US turned Libya in what it is now

 

[dragonfart28]

Cool then also use total numbers for people dying by guns in America or by the Police. Why should I care about these few black people who got shot by the police? Its not even in my country.

Percentage of Deaths Due to Terrorism per 100,000 people (historical)

Proportional Comparison of gun-related deaths vs. Terrorism

 

[Dunki]

Percentage of Deaths Due to Terrorism per 100,000 people (historical)

Proportional Comparison of gun-related deaths vs. Terrorism

So thats 316k out of 7 Billion? Sorry Number too small dont care. Also again the 315 people number is absolut bullshit. The world does not consist of only the US.

And for the rest. These Terrorism attacks happen at least once a week. Once a week a lot of people die because of some assholeish ideology that spreads fear and oppression and which is spreading in the world. Almost every mosque is teaching radical islamic believes in Germany But Again I digress.

Guess since the left is too stupid to see this I will wait for the right to rise even more in power. Since I am white I will also not be affected by it so yay me. /s

 

[infinitys_7th]

Percentage of Deaths Due to Terrorism per 100,000 people (historical)

Proportional Comparison of gun-related deaths vs. Terrorism

Why are accidental deaths and suicides being compared to motive crimes?

How do you accidentally commit terrorism or commit terrorism against yourself?

 

[Dunki]

Why are accidental deaths and suicides being compared to motive crimes?

How do you accidentally commit terrorism or commit terrorism against yourself?

To push your ideology better is my guess.

 

[dragonfart28]

Why are accidental deaths and suicides being compared to motive crimes?

How do you accidentally commit terrorism or commit terrorism against yourself?

The question was about whether or not one should feel threatened by either.

The rational way to determine whether or not you fear something is partly due to the likelihood of harm.

 

[theignoramus]

Neogaf has gone off the fucking rails. In this thread, we have people arguing in bad faith that BLM have terrorists amongst their membership. As if they've:
bombed a church. or a government institution. or hung someone. or castrated someone. or assassinated someone, or burned people alive, or road around and tried to confiscate White people's weapons..nah, BLM hasnt done anything even remotely like that.

I can tell you has done that though and has been doing it for 160 years and counting, while law enforcement looked the other way. And I can tell you who the FBI considers the number one source of domestic terror in the US. (hint...it aint Muslim extremists)
Get the ENTIRE FUCK OUT OF HERE, if BLM are a "terrorist group" then violent right wing extremists of American history are mini-Hitlers.
You can only bring up some rioters, as if every fucking rioter is a BLM member, because theyre Black, rioting and your stupid, bigoted ass hates BLM and presupposes every Black person that protests against police brutality is a de facto BLM member.

 

[infinitys_7th]

I can tell you has done that though and has been doing it for 160 years and counting, while law enforcement looked the other way. And I can tell you who the FBI considers the number one source of domestic terror in the US. (hint...it aint Muslim extremists)

In terms of magnitude, non-Islamic right wing extremists and Islamic extremists have killed roughly the same number of people since October 2001 (i.e. not counting 9/11). It's <100 for both, btw.

Why should the threats not be considered equal, on the basis of prevent deaths?

 

[infinitys_7th]

The question was about whether or not one should feel threatened by either.

The rational way to determine whether or not you fear something is partly due to the likelihood of harm.

How does suicide increase the likelihood of harm to me?

 

[theignoramus]

In terms of magnitude, non-Islamic right wing extremists and Islamic extremists have killed roughly the same number of people since October 2001 (i.e. not counting 9/11). It's <100 for both, btw.

Why should the threats not be considered equal, on the basis of prevent deaths?

Then consider them equal, I dont care, but this entire thread has been about Muslim terrorists and a pathetic attempt to paint BLM as some sort of domestic terror threat and Im here to correct the fucking record.
You wanna know about terror threats: here are two fucking massive terror threats in the last 2 years alone and they were planned by Trump's "very fine people" (people some posters in this thread likely sympathise with)


1.

Federal authorities on Tuesday charged three men from rural central Illinois with the bombing of a Minnesota mosque last year and said one of the suspects told an investigator the goal of the attack was to "scare" Muslims out of the United States.
One of the men, Michael B. Hari, 47, described in an April 2017 Chicago Tribune article how he drafted a $10 billion plan to build a wall along the border with Mexico, citing President Donald Trump's call for such a wall. Hari drew up the proposal after launching a security company, Crisis Resolution Security Services, the newspaper said.

McWhorter allegedly told an FBI agent during an interview that the three rented a pickup in Champaign and drove more than 500 miles to Minnesota with a plan to bomb the mosque, according to a criminal complaint. He said they wanted to let Muslims know they are not welcome in the United States and "scare them out of the country," according to notes taken by the FBI.

It wasn't clear from the complaint why the men may have targeted a mosque so far from Illinois.

Morris told one informant that Hari had promised to pay him and McWhorter $18,000 for participating in the mosque bombing, according to the complaint. An affidavit says the men broke a window to the imam's office and threw a pipe bomb containing black powder into the mosque. The pipe bomb exploded, causing a fire that was extinguished by sprinklers.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-minnesota-mosque-bombing-20180313-story.html

A trio of anti-Muslim Kansas militiamen who discussed plans to murder Somali refugees were hoodwinkedby fake news on Facebook and unfairly exploited by a federal government targeting them for their conservative beliefs, their defense attorneys argued this week.

Curtis Allen, Patrick Stein and Gavin Wright were ensnared in a FBI sting that wrapped up just weeks before the 2016 presidential election. The government says the men plotted to bomb an apartment complex in Garden City, Kansas, that housed Somali refugees they called “cockroaches.” The domestic terrorism investigation involved an informant who had infiltrated the so-called Crusaders militia group as well as undercover FBI agents, all of whom are expected to testify at the federal trial now unfolding in Wichita.

https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...nsas-militia-plot_us_5ab43c40e4b0decad04865e0


That is terrorism. Not some rioting with a spurious connection to BLM you made up in your puny little mind. (not you specifically, that other poster)

 

[infinitys_7th]

Then consider them equal, I dont care, but this entire thread has been about Muslim terrorists and a pathetic attempt to paint BLM as some sort of domestic terror threat and Im here to correct the fucking record.
You wanna know about terror threats: here are two fucking massive terror threats in the last 2 years alone and they were planned by Trump's "very fine people" (people some posters in this thread likely sympathise with)


1.




http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-minnesota-mosque-bombing-20180313-story.html


https://www.huffingtonpost.ca/entry...nsas-militia-plot_us_5ab43c40e4b0decad04865e0


That is terrorism. Not some rioting with a spurious connection to BLM you made up in your puny little mind. (not you specifically, that other poster)

I don't think that I ever disagreed that those cases would be terrorism. They fit the definition - using violence to promote ideology.

 

[Dunki]

Neogaf has gone off the fucking rails. In this thread, we have people arguing in bad faith that BLM have terrorists amongst their membership. As if they've:
bombed a church. or a government institution. or hung someone. or castrated someone. or assassinated someone, or burned people alive, or road around and tried to confiscate White people's weapons..nah, BLM hasnt done anything even remotely like that.

I can tell you has done that though and has been doing it for 160 years and counting, while law enforcement looked the other way. And I can tell you who the FBI considers the number one source of domestic terror in the US. (hint...it aint Muslim extremists)
Get the ENTIRE FUCK OUT OF HERE, if BLM are a "terrorist group" then violent right wing extremists of American history are mini-Hitlers.
You can only bring up some rioters, as if every fucking rioter is a BLM member, because theyre Black, rioting and your stupid, bigoted ass hates BLM and presupposes every Black person that protests against police brutality is a de facto BLM member.

First of all I think you need to realx. no one painted the whole group as Terrorist. I for example was jsut saying that it has terrorists as well as racist people in it. When these people have more of a leader function like the nutjob in Toronto it becomes a bigger problem about the perception of BLM as a whole.

And again being a terrorist does not mean you are killing people. A terrorist is a person who believes to change a political climate through fear, intimidation and violence. That is the basic definition. For example if you think you have to hunt down trump . supporters and hit them in a face you are per definition a terrorist. Thats all there is.

As for Muslim. If we want it or not in the world this is the biggest route of terrorism. Islamic countries using stop and search methods Iran and Irak are pretty "good" in these things. Racial profiling in these countries is also the norm now. So of course people talk more about that since it is a big threat to the world for many people.

 

[mckmas8808]

First of all I think you need to realx. no one painted the whole group as Terrorist. I for example was jsut saying that it has terrorists as well as racist people in it. When these people have more of a leader function like the nutjob in Toronto it becomes a bigger problem about the perception of BLM as a whole.

And again being a terrorist does not mean you are killing people. A terrorist is a person who believes to change a political climate through fear, intimidation and violence. That is the basic definition. For example if you think you have to hunt down trump . supporters and hit them in a face you are per definition a terrorist. Thats all there is.

As for Muslim. If we want it or not in the world this is the biggest route of terrorism. Islamic countries using stop and search methods Iran and Irak are pretty "good" in these things. Racial profiling in these countries is also the norm now. So of course people talk more about that since it is a big threat to the world for many people.

If you are saying that BLM has terrorist in their groups because they want to hunt down Trump, then 10% of all white America must have been terrorist since so many wanted Obama dead. I mean come on dude.

 

[Dunki]

If you are saying that BLM has terrorist in their groups because they want to hunt down Trump, then 10% of all white America must have been terrorist since so many wanted Obama dead. I mean come on dude.

I am saying this because there are certainly members in there who want to use violence against the police, against Trump supporters etc. And yes these are terrorists. That is the definition of terrorism.

And also yes if you want to hunt down Trump you have a terroristic mindset. If you then actually do this you are a terrorist.

 

[mckmas8808]

I am saying this because there are certainly members in there who want to use violence against the police, against Trump supporters etc. And yes these are terrorists. That is the definition of terrorism.

And also yes if you want to hunt down Trump you have a terroristic mindset. If you then actually do this you are a terrorist.

So you'd admit that there were 1,000s of white terrorist all across the America that wanted to kill Obama too right? Did you have that same mindset back in 2009-20016?

 

[Dunki]

So you'd admit that there were 1,000s of white terrorist all across the America that wanted to kill Obama too right? Did you have that same mindset back in 2009-20016?

1 Why would I want to kill Obama? I thought he was a cool president.
2. What you think and then actually do is completely different. Again yes they have a terroristic mindset If they want to kill him for ideological reasons. However that is not how we define a terrorist. You become a terrorist when you actually act on this mindset.

 

[mckmas8808]

1 Why would I want to kill Obama? I thought he was a cool president.
2. What you think and then actually do is completely different. Again yes they have a terroristic mindset If they want to kill him for ideological reasons. However that is not how we define a terrorist. You become a terrorist when you actually act on this mindset.

I didn't say you wanted to kill him. I'm talking about all the threats to his life from potential haters of his. Just seems easy for you to say BLM has terrorists in their group, but you don't have that same energy for the right that felt that sameway about Barack. You don't find that weird?

 

[Dunki]

I didn't say you wanted to kill him. I'm talking about all the threats to his life from potential haters of his. Just seems easy for you to say BLM has terrorists in their group, but you don't have that same energy for the right that felt that sameway about Barack. You don't find that weird?

If they did send death threats they are terrorist because they want to archive something through fear.
And when did I say the later one? I treat everyone the same with BLM it is easier to explain since it is a group and political movement. With these rightwing people its not a group aside from something like the KKK which also tried to change climate through fear and intimidation.

 

[mckmas8808]

If they did send death threats they are terrorist because they want to archive something through fear.
And when did I say the later one? I treat everyone the same with BLM it is easier to explain since it is a group and political movement. With these rightwing people its not a group aside from something like the KKK which also tried to change climate through fear and intimidation.

That's got to be the dumbest thing someone can ever think. Every group has bad apples. Why would you extend that to 100% of the people?

 

[Dunki]

That's got to be the dumbest thing someone can ever think. Every group has bad apples. Why would you extend that to 100% of the people?

I would not do that I said it is to explain easer since the group is based on a political movement and in these movements there are more likely people in there who are extremists aka terrorist.

You can do the same with religion. Christianity, Islam etc. In these huge movements there are always extremists in there. If you want an actual terrorist Organisation that is 100% terror try something like Hamas. I personally would also call Antifa to it. was well.

 

[mckmas8808]

I would not do that I said it is to explain easer since the group is based on a political movement and in these movements there are more likely people in there who are extremists aka terrorist.

You can do the same with religion. Christianity, Islam etc. In these huge movements there are always extremists in there. If you want an actual terrorist Organisation that is 100% terror try something like Hamas. I personally would also call Antifa to it. was well.

Interesting choices you have there......

 

[NickFire]

Interesting choices you have there......

What they are saying, I think, is that Antifa uses unlawful violence to advance a political goal. And that is hard to refute in good faith - just watch the videos. Does it mean that they are on the level of Hamas - of course not. Does it mean their political goal is as repugnant as the KKK's? Hell no. But it is using unlawful violence to achieve a political goal, so I cant say the definition does not fit with any moral certainty.

 

[Dunki]

Interesting choices you have there......

I hope you do not think that Hamas are "freedom fighters"
As For Antifa I am from Germany they stay in not owned buildings for years, they are attacking the police, they are using intimidation and fear agaisnt the right wing AFD party members. You heard of G20 in Hamburg? Also Antifa. Also each 1st may in Berlin huge demo with ton of setting cars on fire attacking the police etc. So yes they are terrorist.

As for american Antifa. I am sorry but punching so called "Nazis" is still a form of terrorism because they want to change political views/climate though fear and violence.

Also before I called the KKK a terrorist organisation as well. And Hamas and Antifa are some well known names to make my statement clear.

 

[Unknown Quantity]

People using terror as a tactic to effect change is common. Saying that God willed it is even more common. The crusades, Nazis were and still are a terrorist organization, the KKK we're burning people on crosses (no ideology?) You're very selective with your discrimination dunki, maybe go to every mosque in Germany and talk to these people.

 

[Dunki]

People using terror as a tactic to effect change is common. Saying that God willed it is even more common. The crusades, Nazis were and still are a terrorist organization, the KKK we're burning people on crosses (no ideology?) You're very selective with your discrimination dunki, maybe go to every mosque in Germany and talk to these people.

I used these because we live in 2018 and not hundred years ago (christianity)

And no what we need to do in my country is stop allowing funding and building from other countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey etc. We need to abolish all of these and build own ones lead by people who where trained in Europe. Right now in Berlin we have more and more reports coming in from Elementary schools and its raising Antisemitism. Kids are getting bullied and even threaten more and more if they do not follow the Islam or even if they do not go into the "correct" mosque. The situation in Germany goes bad pretty fast right now and if we just ignore these problems we will have HUGE problems in 20 years.

Also we have one progressive mosque in Berlin which is lead by a women and only can run under constant police protection. This is how far this already has gone here. Again If we had American like Muslims no one would even care here in Germany or whole Europe. How about the new murder of a holocaust survivor in France and how this again started a debate and more and more gets discovered. Like Jewish people already being pretty scared in Paris/France. And these are just not exception this is becoming the norm here.

So yes regarding Islamism I have become maybe a bit biased but this is based on facts and the current situation in my country.

 

[Unknown Quantity]

Your country has amazingly allowed a million people seeking refuge from a murderous dictator who is still murdering his own citizens because they want him gone and prefer a democracy. The only country to join fully is Russia, but Putin doesn't give a shit about the people there, just a platform in the middle east, and those people will need time to integrate.
Effect positive change, it seems like you're just regurgitating the same stuff. Start locally, and see what happens.
Those people ran away from bashar al-wahsh (Arabic word for monster before he changed it to Assad).
So take it easy.