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[Aces&Eights]

Great video. She makes a point about how people of color could give feedback to white people when we do or say something that we don't realize is racist. I wish this would be the case. I've grown up white and even if I consciously strive to "not be racist", there could be things I do or say, or ways I act that are feeding into the system of racism and I am simply not aware. Having someone pull me aside and give me honest feedback would really help me see those little things I might do or say that can be contributing to the problem.

She's right though, how can someone of a different race feel comfortable telling a stranger that they did something that is racist and not feel like they could receive bad repercussions? It's truly sad. The system of racism is so embedded and systematic that the opportunities for change are going to require great changes in how we communicate with each other and being honest with ourselves. Truly, openly honest.

 

[CookTrain]

... the opportunities for change are going to require great changes in how we communicate with each other and being honest with ourselves. Truly, openly honest.

I don't know how conducive the internet age is to that kind of introspection, sadly. It has become the perfect tool for shuttering yourself away with people who reinforce your beliefs. How that can be overcome, I've no idea.

 

[watershed]

Edit: accidentally linked the same video as the OP.

If you would rather read, then here is a groundbreaking article on discovering white privilege by Peggy McIntosh who started her own journey towards understanding white privilege after a life time of teaching women's studies and male privilege at the college level. Her notes at the end of the article are also well worth reading. I'm using this very article in my own work.

https://nationalseedproject.org/white-privilege-unpacking-the-invisible-knapsack

 

[Dreams-Visions]

an excellent watch.

Feels like she'd need a semester of topics to really get into it. From the bite-sized 20 minutes, I appreciated all of her points.

Indeed if our white friends would just listen, internalize and make changes (eg NFL protests), it would be revolutionary for us. Instead...well...yea. And she discussed why we're getting those reactions which was really cool.

Good luck in here, guys.

 

[Aces&Eights]

I don't know how conducive the internet age is to that kind of introspection, sadly. It has become the perfect tool for shuttering yourself away with people who reinforce your beliefs. How that can be overcome, I've no idea.

Self reflection is the key IMO. Like she said, not just saying "I'm not racist because I don't do X, Y or Z" But seeing that this comes from a whole system set up to inherently cause prejudice at a system wide level rather than just being individual actions. We can still have honest discussions with each other online. The rub is a person has to be willing to self reflect and be open to other people's input as to what they are seeing or feeling in your words or actions. If you truly become aware of how deep it is embedded and want to make an honest go at changing your behavior, you can do that even if it is talking to someone on a keyboard.

 

[ZealousD]

I don't think that checks out. But culture doesn't mean that nobody outside that culture participates in the same activities anyway.

I'm generalizing a bit, obviously. Obviously you have some black people who drink craft beer or golf, but by and large these things are white-dominated and are essentially "white culure". White people might not immediately recognize that, nor would we see any problem with a black person participating in that white culture, though we might be surprised to see it. But you do have "black culture" that can be considered a no-touching zone for whites. That's a disparity.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Great video. She makes a point about how people of color could give feedback to white people when we do or say something that we don't realize is racist. I wish this would be the case. I've grown up white and even if I consciously strive to "not be racist", there could be things I do or say, or ways I act that are feeding into the system of racism and I am simply not aware. Having someone pull me aside and give me honest feedback would really help me see those little things I might do or say that can be contributing to the problem.

I think you missed the part where she says that that almost never happens and that white people, generally get so defensive that it makes it not worth it.

 

[SomethingWitty]

If someone wants a more condensed explanation for the construction of "whiteness'", then I think the video below might be a good entry way into being "woke." I know its MTV, but MTV's Decoded series is pretty good and even my Ethnic Studies professor at Cal/UC Berkeley showed this video to students at lecture to explain the construction of Caucasian/white.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKB8hXYod2w

A little sad at the reception with the thumbs-down and comments denying this history.

Racial construction is completely arbitrary and inherently racist. The sooner we stop labeling people based on arbitrary standards on phenotype/genes, the better.

 

[Harrison Bergeron]

Something that's interesting, and perhaps demonstrative of white privilege in effect is the video posted didn't seem all like a unique or powerful insight into the topic to me. It seemed a pretty standard account of material, theses, critical theory and discourse, presented for years (though ever evolving of course) in any humanities stream curriculum. I happen to find it very persuasive, and also tend to agree with its approach generally, but being aware of it still makes me extremely self-conscious about not being respectful or appropriate, and also how much I don't know.

 

[Renegade Frost]

I'm generalizing a bit, obviously. Obviously you have some black people who drink craft beer or golf, but by and large these things are white-dominated and are essentially "white culure". White people might not immediately recognize that, nor would we see any problem with a black person participating in that white culture, though we might be surprised to see it. But you do have "black culture" that can be considered a no-touching zone for whites. That's a disparity.

"Black Culture" is African American culture. Which gets expedited all over our planet. I mean... you got Gyaru's in Japan appropriating hip hop lol.

Its not off limits at all, y'all love to appropriate that shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L-4ZrOk1Tc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zR6ROjoOX0

White culture doesnt exist, stereotypes around class variances in white societies do exist however.

Right now it sounds like you're talking about douchebags or "WASPy" northerners who like to vacation around the globe lol.

You know. Northeast College scene.

Most of the culture white people display is from their ethnic heritage

 

[Pagusas]

Well made video. I’m glad it takes a educational angle instead of the insanely stupid “you should feel bad for being white” angle I see so often.

 

[Renegade Frost]

Well made video. I’m glad it takes a educational angle instead of the insanely stupid “you should feel bad for being white” angle I see so often.

From where lol?

 

[Pagusas]

From where lol?

Read threads like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1248258

Or insane things like the video this thread is about: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1423528

Or look up white guilt, there’s even a tv trope for it...

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

I see it's time to ignore the "honest" portion of the thread title

 

[NoblesseOblige]

Well made video. I'm glad it takes a educational angle instead of the insanely stupid ”you should feel bad for being white" angle I see so often.

Never have I felt this 'you should feel bad for being white' angle, not even in the links you shared in your next post. But mayhaps I'm not sharing in such personal sensitivity.

 

[Glass Shark]

Read threads like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1248258

Or insane things like the video this thread is about: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1423528

Or look up white guilt, there’s even a tv trope for it...

“Are White People Responsible For American Slavery, Segregation, Mass Incarceration?”

It might be a hard thing to admit but the answer to this is an easy yes.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Was anyone else a little chapped when the video was over?



I wanted more.

 

[∀ Narayan]

Great video. Thanks for sharing.

 

[EdibleKnife]

“Are White People Responsible For American Slavery, Segregation, Mass Incarceration?”

It might be a hard thing to admit but the answer to this is an easy yes.

And even if someone were to use the old chestnut “well it wasn’t because of me” the further point becomes that white America continually benefits from the fact that these institutions were and are fed by black bodies. And the message isn’t that all white people are automatically rich, famous and never have to struggle because of this fact but rather black people are forced to exist on a lower rung of the societal ladder because of these inhumane institutions.

 

[curiouscharles]

saved, subscribed, can't wait to watch [and share] this.

 

[ChouGoku]

Read threads like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1248258

Or insane things like the video this thread is about: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1423528

Or look up white guilt, there’s even a tv trope for it...

“Are White People Responsible For American Slavery, Segregation, Mass Incarceration?”

Do you think the answer is not yes?

 

[Heel]

Thanks for sharing this. She does a great job of contextualizing the defensiveness of white people who believe they're on the right side of things, disowning the problem because they're a good person. It's simply bigger than that, and in itself part of the problem.

I'm keenly aware of this defensive mindset, and something that's hard to shake when "white people" are being painted in broad strokes, sometimes flippantly out of justified frustration. You see this mentality a lot on GAF, and I'm sure a lot of people feel it while reading about certain subjects and never verbalize it. It's very easy to want to shell up and just "walk away" from the problem, which is an effortless act for a white person and impossible for a person of color.

Really is a good watch for both those in this boat as white people and people of color to get a better understanding of this ultimately flawed mindset.

 

[GrizzleBoy]

Well made video. I’m glad it takes a educational angle instead of the insanely stupid “you should feel bad for being white” angle I see so often.

Read threads like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1248258

Or insane things like the video this thread is about: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1423528

Or look up white guilt, there’s even a tv trope for it...

Eh. That second thread is not from a "BLM leader" despite the thread and article title.

It's quite obvious that the answer to that question from the first thread is yes, though.

And it continues to be, because the country does not have the political appetite to address it. Specifically because of what the lady is talking about.

I mean the video in the OP is trying it's best to tell you to get it out of your head that racism and responsibility of the majority to acknowledge it's existence and effects is not about good and evil, but about simply being honest about the reality of it.

But you're still bringing up a thread like that and saying that a discussion of the responsibility of addressing and fixing racism is equated to "white people should feel bad".

There's no point being happy with the way this lady explains why you need to shed your defensiveness around the topic, when in the very same post, you're showing that you're still not able to have the discussion without the defensiveness.

 

[MikeBreezy92]

Thanks for sharing this. She does a great job of contextualizing the defensiveness of white people who believe they're on the right side of things, disowning the problem because they're a good person. It's simply bigger than that, and in itself part of the problem.

I'm keenly aware of this defensive mindset, and something that's hard to shake when "white people" are being painted in broad strokes, sometimes flippantly out of justified frustration. You see this mentality a lot on GAF, and I'm sure a lot of people feel it while reading about certain subjects and never verbalize it. It's very easy to want to shell up and just "walk away" from the problem, which is an effortless act for a white person and impossible for a person of color.

Really is a good watch for both those in this boat as white people and people of color to get a better understanding of this ultimately flawed mindset.

I don't think the mindset needs to be understood by poc, we already know how it is.

 

[wazoo]

“Are White People Responsible For American Slavery, Segregation, Mass Incarceration?”

Do you think the answer is not yes?

Yes, they are.

Still that mindset "people should pay for the sins of their fathers" is what brought us from World War 1 to World War 2 if you know a bit about european history.

 

[Liljagare]

It's almost like the Us owes itself war reparations..

 

[Flo_Evans]

Thanks for sharing this. She does a great job of contextualizing the defensiveness of white people who believe they're on the right side of things, disowning the problem because they're a good person. It's simply bigger than that, and in itself part of the problem.

I'm keenly aware of this defensive mindset, and something that's hard to shake when "white people" are being painted in broad strokes, sometimes flippantly out of justified frustration. You see this mentality a lot on GAF, and I'm sure a lot of people feel it while reading about certain subjects and never verbalize it. It's very easy to want to shell up and just "walk away" from the problem, which is an effortless act for a white person and impossible for a person of color.

Really is a good watch for both those in this boat as white people and people of color to get a better understanding of this ultimately flawed mindset.

Yeah I think that was the best part. I can definitely recognize a lot of that in myself and other white people. Very easy to say well I’m not racist, not my problem and go along your merry way.

Also interesting about “good” neighborhoods and schools. I grew up in north St. Louis, I know many white families that used to live in these neighborhoods that fled when it got too “dark” for them. Myself when looking for a home I wanted a “good” neighborhood, I wasn’t consciously avoiding black people but I look around and my block is pretty much all white people. I even made a sarcastic “there goes the neighborhood” joke when a black family was moving in. But I really wouldn’t be surprised if many people actually felt that way. I sure heard it enough when I was younger.

 

[televator]

Read threads like this: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1248258

Or insane things like the video this thread is about: http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=1423528

Or look up white guilt, there's even a tv trope for it...

So you liked the tone of the OP video, but you show that you completely missed the point anyway by linking these "insane" examples.

 

[EdibleKnife]

Yes, they are.

Still that mindset "people should pay for the sins of their fathers" is what brought us from World War 1 to World War 2 if you know a bit about european history.

The suggestion that the solution or expectation is only payment is wrong thinking. Black people would like help from white people in breaking down these institutions and their remnants. That shouldn't be seen as unfairly paying some high price when people already seem set on and put a lot of effort into avoiding conversations about race and racially oppresive institutions when it matters. Make society better instead of simply comfortably living in it while people of color have to suffer right under the nose of white America. Hell, the OP of that topic even lays it out simply:

EDIT #2
I can not believe (but maybe I shouldn't be surprised) at the amount of people in here that are asking for clarification regarding "which white people?"

That's kind of irrelevant to be honest. For one, we're obviously talking about The United States here, and on top of that, it really makes it seem like you guys are simply ignoring the questions that are being brought up, and using this "clarification" as a means to completely remove yourself from having to feel any sort of connection to the issue.

This is kind of the point I'm trying to make. For all of you asking what's the point of this thread, the point is, to get a discussion on what it's gonna take, for modern day white people living in the United States, to look this issue right in the eye, and actually get involved to try to change these issues that they directly, or indirectly benefit from.

Is that clear enough for you guys?

Edit: wanted to add this video, please watch it.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ty4uC2jiLWI

 

[televator]

Yes, they are.

Still that mindset "people should pay for the sins of their fathers" is what brought us from World War 1 to World War 2 if you know a bit about european history.

Where is this mindset? What payment? Equality is payment? Would it hurt white people to just put the breaks on the self serving institutions they benefit from and help establish more inclusive societal frameworks?

 

[Muppet of a Man]

I've said it before, and I will say it again (and she even mentions it in the video). The institutional barriers which create de facto segregation of residential neighborhoods, school districts, and places of business are the actual underpinning of systemic racism (i.e., the most significantly weighted factor enabling and perpetuating racism within society).

Until proposed legislation actually passes and reverses the mechanisms of segregation, they will continue to have the largest impact on perpetuating a second class citizenship status for people of color.

People of color and white people need to live in the same neighborhoods with one another on the same footing, they need to attend the same schools, and work amongst each other. That level of proximity is necessary for the worst of racism to be beat back. And it is necessary for everyone, including white people, to live a richer, better life.

This physical segregation is also the biggest enabler of law enforcement practices that unfairly target people of color. By creating segregated neighborhoods by race, it makes it that much easier for law enforcement to target that entire group of POC easily and incessantly, isolating any scenes which are made out of sight and out of mind for white people.

 

[nel e nel]

yea this is what really got me because my wife and I are looking at neighborhoods, schools and houses for when we will be in the market. We use apps and websites to find the best, safest places. That probably means all white/ vast majority white schools and neighborhoods though. So this is tough...

We need to decouple property taxes from school funding to even start to make a dent in that problem. Only thing is, even the wokest of white folks show their true colors whenever that idea gets floated.


Also, could someone please link me to the Pop quote folks are referencing? I missed that.

 

[llien]

The Washington Post: The real secret to Asian American success was not education

I don't see anything proving the title the WP quote (and article is behind paywall to me)
And I certainly disagree with downplaying education, but again, lack of actual arguments doesn't allow to follow the logic of the author.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

So how do we explain the Asian anomaly? I mean, they have to be an anomaly if all of our institutions are born out of whites privilege. Last I checked, the average Asian family makes more than the average white family. Does Dr. DiAngelo have anything to say on this?

Oh group of people who developed a high sense of "us-ness" by wanting only Asian on Asian marriage except you could marry a white man because you'd still have a white skinned child with Asian features.

Then to not say of the skin whitening craze in some Asian countries

 

[Shauni]

We need to decouple property taxes from school funding to even start to make a dent in that problem. Only thing is, even the wokest of white folks show their true colors whenever that idea gets floated.


Also, could someone please link me to the Pop quote folks are referencing? I missed that.

What's that mean?

 

[Infinite]

What's that mean?

Local property taxes are how schools are funded

 

[Shauni]

Local property taxes are how schools are funded

What does it mean to decouple that? Like federal funds instead

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

What's that mean?

It means rich places get better schools and poor places get worse since it’s all based on house values.

What does it mean to decouple that? Like federal funds instead

It means decouple... don’t have money received be based on house value.

 

[linkboy]

What's that mean?

Schools that are in more well off areas get more funding due to school funding being based on property taxes.

Guess which areas get more funding for schools..

 

[Lunaray]

So how do we explain the Asian anomaly? I mean, they have to be an anomaly if all of our institutions are born out of whites privilege. Last I checked, the average Asian family makes more than the average white family. Does Dr. DiAngelo have anything to say on this?

Anyone who subscribes to the "model minority" myth needs to read Frank Wu's book "Yellow: Race in America Beyond Black and White". Here's an excerpt.

 

[Shauni]

Oh, okay. I didn't realize that was set up that way, never owned a house

 

[RedSparrows]

Really interesting video.

Aside, but also relevant (to my detriment, perhaps) as per her identification of the binary, but HOLY CHRIST the comments.

 

[Maddness]

Powerful message and I agree 100%. I hope everyone gives her a watch and listens to her message. I agree it'll be hard for a lot of white people to take in, but it's absolutely the truth. We have a long way to go still. Waking up is just the beginning.

 

[gaiages]

Yes, they are.

Still that mindset "people should pay for the sins of their fathers" is what brought us from World War 1 to World War 2 if you know a bit about european history.

Modern white people aren't paying for the sins of their fathers, they have their own sins to pay for--namely, pretending that 'racism doesn't exist' and are complacent in systemic racism while plugging their ears and closing their eyes. That's just the "good" white people, let alone the outwardly racist white supremacists.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Yes, they are.

Still that mindset "people should pay for the sins of their fathers" is what brought us from World War 1 to World War 2 if you know a bit about european history.

"sins of the fathers"? Mass incarceration is still happening and simply trying to start discussion about minority issue is enough to send a good deal of white people into a frenzy. These past four days alone, the POTUS has been having a temper tantrum over black nfl players protesting police brutality.

 

[nOoblet16]

I remember reading a comment here on GAF in one of the UK politics thread and he basically said something like he doesn't like that his kid's class is half full of immigrant kids. And I asked how could he tell whether they are immigrant kids or just non white British...and he didn't respond.

I suspect the truth is that most white families would want to send their kids to a school that doesn't have a heavy amount of non white kids. And I know I'm just talking out of my ass here but for some reason I feel like I'm not very far off from the truth, even if it's done subconsciously without intention.

 

[Vincent Grayson]

I remember reading a comment here on GAF in one of the UK politics thread and he basically said something like he doesn't like that his kid's class is half full of immigrant kids. And I asked how could he tell whether they are immigrant kids or just non white British...and he didn't respond.

I suspect the truth is that most white families would want to send their kids to a school that doesn't have a heavy amount of non white kids. And I know I'm just talking out of my ass here but for some reason I feel like I'm not very far off from the truth, even if it's done subconsciously without intention.

When we lived in Hawaii, my kids went to school with so many non-white kids, and I couldn't have been more thrilled. They actually got regularly exposed to people whose culture and lifestyle was nothing like our own, and I just can't wrap my head around white people who have a problem with that.

As much as I like living where we do now, I wish like hell the schools were more racially and culturally diverse, because it's basically wall-to-wall white, conservative families. I know it bothers both my daughters quite a bit, too.

 

[Lunaray]

I remember reading a comment here on GAF in one of the UK politics thread and he basically said something like he doesn't like that his kid's class is half full of immigrant kids. And I asked how could he tell whether they are immigrant kids or just non white British...and he didn't respond.

I suspect the truth is that most white families would want to send their kids to a school that doesn't have a heavy amount of non white kids. And I know I'm just talking out of my ass here but for some reason I feel like I'm not very far off from the truth, even if it's done subconsciously without intention.

Good on you for calling them out.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

I remember reading a comment here on GAF in one of the UK politics thread and he basically said something like he doesn't like that his kid's class is half full of immigrant kids. And I asked how could he tell whether they are immigrant kids or just non white British...and he didn't respond.

I suspect the truth is that most white families would want to send their kids to a school that doesn't have a heavy amount of non white kids. And I know I'm just talking out of my ass here but for some reason I feel like I'm not very far off from the truth, even if it's done subconsciously without intention.

In California, there's been a trend where White families will start moving out of neighbourhoods if they notice that a lot of Asian families start moving in and sending their kids to the local schools.

 

[mentallyinept]

Everyone should watch that video.

Unfortunately, a great many people will not be ready to do so. You have to at least be willing to look at yourself and society with a critical eye to get anything from it.

It's tough to admit but I've said probably every one of those things that she itemized as a "dock level" statement at one point or another in my life and I'm pretty sure I learned every one of them from my parents. Ugh.