recklesscognition
Member
Is this shot from Videogamer.com of the PS4 version (http://screenrant.com/spider-man-ps4-want-to-see/?view=all) a decent comparison pick or not fair comparison? I believe it was from the June reveal.
This is a "game changer" for open world games ( which have a very bad image quality in general on console ) .
Is this shot from Videogamer.com of the PS4 version (http://screenrant.com/spider-man-ps4-want-to-see/?view=all) a decent comparison pick or not fair comparison? I believe it was from the June reveal.
That's because the full 1080p version has like 12 minutes at the beginning and end (music, coming up next livecast) that's not the actual conference.Ah I see. But the sum doesn't match the full 1080p one.
It is a standard as in if devs set the resolution to 3200x1800 or whatever, it will be downsampled to 1080p automatically. That's all they need to do. Clearly Jonathan Blow doesn't seem to care much about it.
This is why i love gaf. lol You cant just call out developers like you can on other forums.Actually, no, we care a lot about it. We are trying to carefully make decisions based on what is going to provide the highest image quality.
For example, we think doubling MSAA will give us a better result than rendering double the number of pixels and downscaling -- it's faster, and leaves more performance on the table for other features.
Examples of other features are things I mentioned in the posting, like having a longer streaming distance before the high-res meshes turn into low-res LODs. I think that kind of LOD popping has a much bigger effect on visual quality than some extra pixels that just get downscaled again anyway. So if we are able to put some of the GPU power into that, we feel it is the better choice.
HOWEVER, we might not be able to increase the LOD radius very much, because that also requires memory, and we are already pushing the boundaries of the console's memory. In that case we might have GPU power to burn, in which case maybe we might render at a resolution higher than 1080p, with 4x MSAA also, and then downscale.
But if I announce that right now, and then we end up not doing it, we will get a lot of people yelling at us for betraying them. So what I announced is the minimum that we can definitely do. And, as I said in the posting, none of this is completely final, and we will announce the final tech specs when the patch is done.
It seems like people appreciate this kind of posting and getting solid details on what a PS4 Pro patch means. That's great ... and some people are wondering why most developers don't do this. Well, it's because sometimes there's no way to win. If you announce one set of specs, people will try to punish you for not doing enough. If you announce another set of specs, and fail to meet them, people will try to punish you harder at that time.
If you want more of this kind of honest communication, please chill and give developers at least a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. We are working hard on this stuff. If people just go and look for random things to get mad about, then you're basically just punishing developers for communicating at all, so they won't.
Actually, no, we care a lot about it. We are trying to carefully make decisions based on what is going to provide the highest image quality.
For example, we think doubling MSAA will give us a better result than rendering double the number of pixels and downscaling -- it's faster, and leaves more performance on the table for other features.
Examples of other features are things I mentioned in the posting, like having a longer streaming distance before the high-res meshes turn into low-res LODs. I think that kind of LOD popping has a much bigger effect on visual quality than some extra pixels that just get downscaled again anyway. So if we are able to put some of the GPU power into that, we feel it is the better choice.
HOWEVER, we might not be able to increase the LOD radius very much, because that also requires memory, and we are already pushing the boundaries of the console's memory. In that case we might have GPU power to burn, in which case maybe we might render at a resolution higher than 1080p, with 4x MSAA also, and then downscale.
But if I announce that right now, and then we end up not doing it, we will get a lot of people yelling at us for betraying them. So what I announced is the minimum that we can definitely do. And, as I said in the posting, none of this is completely final, and we will announce the final tech specs when the patch is done.
It seems like people appreciate this kind of posting and getting solid details on what a PS4 Pro patch means. That's great ... and some people are wondering why most developers don't do this. Well, it's because sometimes there's no way to win. If you announce one set of specs, people will try to punish you for not doing enough. If you announce another set of specs, and fail to meet them, people will try to punish you harder at that time.
If you want more of this kind of honest communication, please chill and give developers at least a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. We are working hard on this stuff. If people just go and look for random things to get mad about, then you're basically just punishing developers for communicating at all, so they won't.
Actually, no, we care a lot about it. We are trying to carefully make decisions based on what is going to provide the highest image quality.
For example, we think doubling MSAA will give us a better result than rendering double the number of pixels and downscaling -- it's faster, and leaves more performance on the table for other features.
Examples of other features are things I mentioned in the posting, like having a longer streaming distance before the high-res meshes turn into low-res LODs. I think that kind of LOD popping has a much bigger effect on visual quality than some extra pixels that just get downscaled again anyway. So if we are able to put some of the GPU power into that, we feel it is the better choice.
HOWEVER, we might not be able to increase the LOD radius very much, because that also requires memory, and we are already pushing the boundaries of the console's memory. In that case we might have GPU power to burn, in which case maybe we might render at a resolution higher than 1080p, with 4x MSAA also, and then downscale.
But if I announce that right now, and then we end up not doing it, we will get a lot of people yelling at us for betraying them. So what I announced is the minimum that we can definitely do. And, as I said in the posting, none of this is completely final, and we will announce the final tech specs when the patch is done.
It seems like people appreciate this kind of posting and getting solid details on what a PS4 Pro patch means. That's great ... and some people are wondering why most developers don't do this. Well, it's because sometimes there's no way to win. If you announce one set of specs, people will try to punish you for not doing enough. If you announce another set of specs, and fail to meet them, people will try to punish you harder at that time.
If you want more of this kind of honest communication, please chill and give developers at least a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. We are working hard on this stuff. If people just go and look for random things to get mad about, then you're basically just punishing developers for communicating at all, so they won't.
Actually...
Actually, no, we care a lot about it. We are trying to carefully make decisions based on what is going to provide the highest image quality.
For example, we think doubling MSAA will give us a better result than rendering double the number of pixels and downscaling -- it's faster, and leaves more performance on the table for other features.
Examples of other features are things I mentioned in the posting, like having a longer streaming distance before the high-res meshes turn into low-res LODs. I think that kind of LOD popping has a much bigger effect on visual quality than some extra pixels that just get downscaled again anyway. So if we are able to put some of the GPU power into that, we feel it is the better choice.
HOWEVER, we might not be able to increase the LOD radius very much, because that also requires memory, and we are already pushing the boundaries of the console's memory. In that case we might have GPU power to burn, in which case maybe we might render at a resolution higher than 1080p, with 4x MSAA also, and then downscale.
But if I announce that right now, and then we end up not doing it, we will get a lot of people yelling at us for betraying them. So what I announced is the minimum that we can definitely do. And, as I said in the posting, none of this is completely final, and we will announce the final tech specs when the patch is done.
It seems like people appreciate this kind of posting and getting solid details on what a PS4 Pro patch means. That's great ... and some people are wondering why most developers don't do this. Well, it's because sometimes there's no way to win. If you announce one set of specs, people will try to punish you for not doing enough. If you announce another set of specs, and fail to meet them, people will try to punish you harder at that time.
If you want more of this kind of honest communication, please chill and give developers at least a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. We are working hard on this stuff. If people just go and look for random things to get mad about, then you're basically just punishing developers for communicating at all, so they won't.
Actually, no, we care a lot about it. We are trying to carefully make decisions based on what is going to provide the highest image quality.
For example, we think doubling MSAA will give us a better result than rendering double the number of pixels and downscaling -- it's faster, and leaves more performance on the table for other features.
Examples of other features are things I mentioned in the posting, like having a longer streaming distance before the high-res meshes turn into low-res LODs. I think that kind of LOD popping has a much bigger effect on visual quality than some extra pixels that just get downscaled again anyway. So if we are able to put some of the GPU power into that, we feel it is the better choice.
HOWEVER, we might not be able to increase the LOD radius very much, because that also requires memory, and we are already pushing the boundaries of the console's memory. In that case we might have GPU power to burn, in which case maybe we might render at a resolution higher than 1080p, with 4x MSAA also, and then downscale.
But if I announce that right now, and then we end up not doing it, we will get a lot of people yelling at us for betraying them. So what I announced is the minimum that we can definitely do. And, as I said in the posting, none of this is completely final, and we will announce the final tech specs when the patch is done.
It seems like people appreciate this kind of posting and getting solid details on what a PS4 Pro patch means. That's great ... and some people are wondering why most developers don't do this. Well, it's because sometimes there's no way to win. If you announce one set of specs, people will try to punish you for not doing enough. If you announce another set of specs, and fail to meet them, people will try to punish you harder at that time.
If you want more of this kind of honest communication, please chill and give developers at least a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. We are working hard on this stuff. If people just go and look for random things to get mad about, then you're basically just punishing developers for communicating at all, so they won't.
Jonathan Blow mic drop
Actually, no, we care a lot about it.....
So unless I am horribly misunderstanding it attempts to downsample 4k to native 1080p
Doesn't this mean devs can skimp out on traditional AA solutions as im sure the downsampled image quality will look about the same as standard MSAA and probably better than FXAA.
Though I am probably horribly wrong in my assumption.
Especially when using a 1080p screen, having that extra power over the regular PS4 would naturally provide a better framerate (until it caps), even in an unpatched game, wouldn't it? In the same way that the Xbox One S gets slightly better fps?
Thanks for the great post, Jonathan. Is it fair to say that checkerboard rendering, which is the big new technique everyone is talking about since yesterday, is not necessarily the best use of PS4 Pro's additional power in all games?
I have 50" 1080p 120hz Sony Bravia. Would getting a PS4 Pro benefit me in any way or should I just stick with the og PS4?
I think it depends on the particular game and engine. Different rendering pipelines are structured differently; for some pipelines, the cost of adding checkerboard rendering would be very low, because they are already computing a lot of the information that checkerboard rendering needs. For other pipelines the cost might be higher. In our case we're just not sure of the total cost yet, but we think it is probably high enough that we may prefer to do a straight upscale. But we're not completely sure.
(It is true that, as Sony has announced, the PS4 Pro provides hardware support for checkerboard rendering that makes it faster than it would otherwise be. I think in some places I have seen the rumor that checkerboard is completely free, but I would consider that an exaggeration: the cost is going to vary per game. Unfortunately due to NDAs I can't provide details; I can't say anything more about Sony technologies than what they have announced. It is definitely true that if you had a game running on the original PS4, and the developer wants to do the most straightforward thing to make the game look better on the Pro, that developer could enable checkerboard rendering and the game will look better and run faster; so it's "free" in that sense. But if you are going to get picky about how you are spending the GPU memory and bandwidth of the new machine, then there are tradeoffs here, like with anything.)
Actually, no, we care a lot about it. If you want more of this kind of honest communication, please chill and give developers at least a little bit of the benefit of the doubt. We are working hard on this stuff. If people just go and look for random things to get mad about, then you're basically just punishing developers for communicating at all, so they won't.
I don't care what anyone says, I loved the order. Now I want a sequel to see how good they can make it look on the pro.
I don't care what anyone says, I loved the order. Now I want a sequel to see how good they can make it look on the pro.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-ps4-pro-horizon-zero-dawn-performance-analysisWe can also confirm that PlayStation 4 Pro upgrades for those running on 1080p displays is limited to super-sampling (the 4K image downscaled to full HD, resulting in excellent anti-aliasing), though Guerrilla's managing director Hermen Hulst mentioned that more consistent performance is also a possibility.