I'm not sure why you quoted me? I didn't blame Kitamura.
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What script changes were made in MGS1 that upset Kojima?
- Thread starter Synth_floyd
- Start date
I'm not sure why you quoted me? I didn't blame Kitamura.
FlutterPuffs
Member
I fucking love that scene. It was stupid but I love the shit out of it.
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
Agreed
Kojima's ego is unstoppable at this point, especially since he's basically keeping Konami afloat.
He's hardly the only guy that needs an editor, though. I think this is the same thing that happens with most creators who get given their freedom after attaining huge financial success. The shackles are what makes them shine, in many cases.
I think I just really love Sam in that game because we have the same dry sense of humor. A lot of the banter especially in early levels is pretty great.
Red Blaster
Member
love blooming on a battlefield was always cheesey as fuq but it's absolutely something a stammering loser like otacon would ask snake
I just think they're just like GI JOE codenames, then all is well.
ShinoguTakeruKoeru
Member
You wanna know what new cutscene is in Substance? Raiden runs across the oil fence bridge. Wow, so crucial to understand the story.
Thermal vision is blue instead of red, that's not a massive improvement, and radios could always be shot from unconscious guards.
cj_iwakura
Member
Those interviews lowered my opinion of Kojima a touch, especially the Agness Kaku one.
Konami put her through hell. She only got the massive script, without any context or in-game reference at all.
Also, we got C&D'd when we released the raw text of the game scripts that Ms. Kaku provided.
Konami put her through hell. She only got the massive script, without any context or in-game reference at all.
Also, we got C&D'd when we released the raw text of the game scripts that Ms. Kaku provided.
Callo Merlose
Banned
You're like a sniper, but with words.
Synth_floyd
Banned
Kojima is probably one of those guys who lets fame and success go to his head so that now he thinks he's a big shot and no one can criticize anything he says and he can take his craziest ideas and run with them now. He makes a lot of money for Konami so they'll probably feed his ego as long as his games sell.
It kind of sucks since Kojima is one of the few people who I could call "auteurs" in the game industry and doesn't produce derivative shit like CoD, Halo, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, anything from virtually all of the big companies that make games. What's ruining games nowadays is big corporations put out shit sequels and clones. And Kojima is not that. But he does have his own issues apparently.
It kind of sucks since Kojima is one of the few people who I could call "auteurs" in the game industry and doesn't produce derivative shit like CoD, Halo, Mass Effect, Final Fantasy, anything from virtually all of the big companies that make games. What's ruining games nowadays is big corporations put out shit sequels and clones. And Kojima is not that. But he does have his own issues apparently.
Cuban Legend
Member
Red Blaster
Member
why do people keep saying this when kojima changed mgs4's ending after being pressured by his staff
OK, cool. Sorry.
because people come to a conclusion about someone and it takes a long time for that impression to go away
in some cases, it never does
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
It's easier to identify and blame an individual from behind a computer screen than to try to understand the whole process
Hot Coldman
Pacifica Ocean
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
It doesn't make sense considering that she spent the 2nd half of her life in the states, and unlike Mei Ling, she didn't have parents or other rhodesian influence in her routine to keep picking the accent. With a few years in another country I'd be surprised if someone didn't drop his native accent in order to get through his daily life.
Red Blaster
Member
i know plenty of people who emigrated to the US when they were teenagers and still have their accents well into adulthood, naomi was roughly college age when she moved to the US
moreover the accent business is such an insignificant detail either way that i still dont get why some people throw shitfits over it
StevePharma
Member
I actually love this stuff in TTS. I can't go back and play the original now because the remake is the difinitve version in my mind due to the script and voice acting that sounds more in line with the rest of the games.
I really wish he didn't. Hope he goes all out in TPP.
crackhead_bob
Member
Your personality traits of an individual are usually established by the time they're 5 years of age. And immersion within that culture plays a prominent role too. Nitpicking about the accents is stupid. But trying to justify them in order to fit into their preconceived notion has sort of fueled much of the debate.
Would have been insensitive considering it came out shortly after 9/11.
Oh boy.
bernardobri
Steve, the dog with no powers that we let hang out with us all for some reason
Well, we can agree then that the accent matter is just a minor issue. Definitely not something I'd use to reject playing the next entry.
It's pretty much the same since it's romanized (in a similar fashion that "Solid Snake" in japanese is just said "Soriddo Suneku" in the series). Blaustein just thought that the western audience wouldn't digest names like that one or Vulcan Raven.
OK, my memory of the accent being fine is all wrong. That sounds kinda terrible.
Son of Liberty
Neo Member
I don't like this hyperbole that Kojima is a hack writer or that his work is terrible. Come on, people. His writing, for the most part, is far beyond fan-fiction. I won't defend MGS4, but most of his games have interesting plots, characters, and scenes.
You can easily make the argument that he needs an internal editor to deliver more concise dialogue and a sharper focus, but he's not frickin' terrible. I'd like to some of the critics in this thread to point me to fan-fiction that comes close to the meta-narrative and post-modernism of MGS2 or the tightly-focused storyline in MGS1. Once again, the dialogue isn't perfect, but as fans have learned, this has a lot to do with translation/cultural issues.
But I will concede that he has screwed the overall storyline since MGS4 with contrived twists, inconsistent characterizations, retcons galore, and ridiculous revivals. It died for me when he started "wrapping things up."
You can easily make the argument that he needs an internal editor to deliver more concise dialogue and a sharper focus, but he's not frickin' terrible. I'd like to some of the critics in this thread to point me to fan-fiction that comes close to the meta-narrative and post-modernism of MGS2 or the tightly-focused storyline in MGS1. Once again, the dialogue isn't perfect, but as fans have learned, this has a lot to do with translation/cultural issues.
But I will concede that he has screwed the overall storyline since MGS4 with contrived twists, inconsistent characterizations, retcons galore, and ridiculous revivals. It died for me when he started "wrapping things up."
XANDER CAGE
Member
I think you mean best name, for those exact reasons.
It will hard to know the truth here since Blaustein appears to be bitter about the fact he wasn't hired for the next Metal Gear. I don't think that it's necessarily wrong from an author to want a certain control over his work when his project is translated. A friend of mine is a translator outside of the gaming industry and often author will have specific demands and when they have a good enough command of the localized language they will ask to read the translation and give their comments on it. She said it's often for the best since sometimes what they wrote means something that you haven't understood properly.
The psycho mantis death scene seems to be one of these cases. It does appear that Kojima has so ego problem though, especially after you read the interview with Agness Kaku.
I'm not really offended by the silly names that weren't localized to something else in the English version. While it might feel weird for MG1 and MG2, I think it works very well with the MGS games. Most of the characters are more or less comic book heroes and villains and they have names that fits that.
If Hollywood came make a serious movie about someone called Batman or Spiderman they can probably do so for a character named Solid Snake or Big Boss.
The psycho mantis death scene seems to be one of these cases. It does appear that Kojima has so ego problem though, especially after you read the interview with Agness Kaku.
I'm not really offended by the silly names that weren't localized to something else in the English version. While it might feel weird for MG1 and MG2, I think it works very well with the MGS games. Most of the characters are more or less comic book heroes and villains and they have names that fits that.
If Hollywood came make a serious movie about someone called Batman or Spiderman they can probably do so for a character named Solid Snake or Big Boss.
crackhead_bob
Member
Agreed. Even the FOX-HOUND characters were saddled with (scaled back) supernatural or outlandish traits. I never took Metal Gear Solid to be hard fiction. I just accepted it for what it was, and back in the 1998, it was something quite a trailblazer that stood out from the usual fare that was available back in the day. Back then, Final Fantasy, Resident Evil, and Legend of Zelda seemed to be the only story heavy franchises that were able to maintain relevancy into the future.
All the MGS games have abided to the same predictable storybeat formulas throughout each titles. It's par for the course the reason for its appeal for better or for worse.
All the MGS games have abided to the same predictable storybeat formulas throughout each titles. It's par for the course the reason for its appeal for better or for worse.
Agness Kaku comes off as rather pretentious and snooty in her interview. Basically, her main criticism of Kojima's writing boils down to it not being high-art. She continually compares his writing to mindless Hollywood action fare by Bruckheimer and Bay. There's no denying that Kojima uses those movies as a starting point, but from there he goes in all sorts of thought-provoking directions.
Mind you, this alone does not make for good writing, but she's really selling Kojima short. He's not an artist, but he is a thinker, not a buffoon.
Then again, Kaku did apparently get hate-mail from Kojima fanboys (who blamed her for MGS2's writing). I guess if I was bombarded with "FUK U BICH U RUINED KOJIMA'S GENIUS MASTERPIECE", I would also become very derogatory toward Kojima.
Mind you, this alone does not make for good writing, but she's really selling Kojima short. He's not an artist, but he is a thinker, not a buffoon.
Then again, Kaku did apparently get hate-mail from Kojima fanboys (who blamed her for MGS2's writing). I guess if I was bombarded with "FUK U BICH U RUINED KOJIMA'S GENIUS MASTERPIECE", I would also become very derogatory toward Kojima.
Pyrrhus
Member
That he lifted from American movies he watched at some point.
Yeah, putting Hatsune Miku, dinosaur fights, and implied sex between a 40-something mercenary and a 16-year-old girl inside a cardboard box during the Sandanista conflict in Nicaragua was fuckin' deep, man. Clearly not the work of a buffoon. And she wasn't saying she was putting him down for not making high art. She was putting him down for being uncreative and for writing a story about the soldiers of a time and place he doesn't really understand or truly attempt to and drawing facile and even offensive conclusions about things as a result. Like saying the Sandanistas mostly won due to the work of an American mercenary and his Japanese pal. Or that the Americans only won the space race because they stole everything from the Russians and fucked over the saintly woman who mostly won World War II for them.
I'm all for good fun and bizarreness, but the man believes his own hype and has no sense of his limitations and biases.
synce
Member
This was a word for word faithful translation of the Japanese line. I remember because it was one of the things I was looking for when playing the JP version
Please. That's way too broad. Everything borrows from something. Unless there's a specific movie you can point to, there's no way you can accuse Kojima of plagiarism. Even Snatcher, which blatantly lifts imagery from Blade Runner and Terminator, has an original (if cliche) story.
Name me one American movie that has the same blend of military espionage, philosophical musing, and comic book bizarreness that MGS has. (It has to precede the first MGS, obviously.)
I didn't say Kojima's writing is deep. It's not. It's very surface-level, but it's still intellectually interesting. It actually has ideas, something that popcorn action movies don't have.
Also, I haven't played Peace Walker, so I can't comment on that. And of course, MGS4 is basically indefensible. That really was fan-fiction level writing, no arguments there. But Agness Kaku was critiquing Kojima's writing as a whole. I doubt she's even played MGS4 or Peace Walker (or even MGS3).
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Yep. I agree with this. Criticizing his work purely from a writing perspective ignores what actually makes his games interesting. MGS2's story is interesting because of how it was delivered in a way that can only be done through a video game. Dismissing the game's story as "fanfic writing" doesn't give enough credit to that.
I think the biggest travesty is that they only were assed to get Cam Clarke in for two games. Fuck, I think he was one of the few VAs in the series with a high degree of talent.
I think that is something Kojima would have the reigns tightly on; he always said that filmmaking was a big interest of his.
He probably will get his feelings hurt when his movie ends up being ridiculously critically panned, though.
Well, if you're going to narrow the field down to "show me fan-fics that have done the exact same things as MGS but better," I don't see how anyone is going to spend the time to refute that. In terms of just providing fan-fiction in general that's better than Kojima's work, if you're in any way familiar with Neon Genesis Evangelion, I would honestly say that Evangelion R is better written than Kojima's work (and EVA-R has not aged the greatest either).
He's really good at playing that one annoying character over and over.
MrCunningham
Member
This was a word for word faithful translation of the Japanese line. I remember because it was one of the things I was looking for when playing the JP version
Yeah Jeremy Blaustein mentions that it was part of the original script in the twelve part YouTube interview that Salaadin posted here. In the interview Jeremy also mentions that the original love plot between Snake and Meryl much sappier in the original Japanese script and he toned it down for his translation. He described the original dialogue as gag worthy when it was translating it to English.
I think you can kinda tell how big Kojima's ego is when he basically refers to himself as Kojima Kaminandes (Kojima is God) in Peace Walker. Inside joke or whatever, it just comes off the wrong way.
I worked in localization too but thankfully I was given much freedom even with the naming conventions. I understand we are merely workers for the creators of their own craft, and sometimes we just have to listen to their demands no matter how ridiculous it may be. In those cases, I would gladly remove myself from the credits than be placed my name in shame.
I worked in localization too but thankfully I was given much freedom even with the naming conventions. I understand we are merely workers for the creators of their own craft, and sometimes we just have to listen to their demands no matter how ridiculous it may be. In those cases, I would gladly remove myself from the credits than be placed my name in shame.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Also, Big Mama, although that would work much better in Russian, where she was supposedly taking that name.
They basically completely fucked MGS2 by taking out the Arsenal Gear sequence.
You basically jump from Arsenal Gear heading towards New York, to Raiden and Solidus falling off the top and apparently now in the centre of the city.
Its a nonsense.
Why on earth wasn't this put back in for the HD collection?
Really, really freaking dumb.
Oh come on now, Kojima's writing has always been borderline incomprehensible nonsense.
That's why people like it though. Not because he is a good writer, but for the bizarre and quirky situations and characters he comes up with.
You basically jump from Arsenal Gear heading towards New York, to Raiden and Solidus falling off the top and apparently now in the centre of the city.
Its a nonsense.
yes, I see the irony in this statement
Why on earth wasn't this put back in for the HD collection?
Really, really freaking dumb.
Oh come on now, Kojima's writing has always been borderline incomprehensible nonsense.
That's why people like it though. Not because he is a good writer, but for the bizarre and quirky situations and characters he comes up with.
Payton talked about this or something, the team feels that players would still be offended by the content.
crazygambit
Member
I came here to say that I agree 100% with this post. I hate the whole "localization" business. Look I know this loli RPG is very much Japanese, I just need you to translate it so I can know what's going on. I DON'T need you to make believe America is the only country in the world and that people aren't capable of consuming entertainment from another country. Why are you trying to make me believe this high school is in America? I don't need this.
He's obviously not the best writer around but I'd still put him above a lot of other people in the industry. He manages to keep me entertained/interested and is decently creative. Which is a lot more than a bunch of other writers can do.
I agree. I'm pissed that they edited out the content and never bothered to add in in re-releases. It makes no sense, it would benefit the game a lot.
The only way to access it was to have a debug PS2 unit and a NA copy of the game, or at least that's what I remember from the TUS thread about the subject. The content is still in the game.
I do not know if you follow pro wrestling, but is Kojima then like Vince Russo? Who was a part of the most successful era in WWF during the late 90s, because he had a filter, a guy who would nix his dumbest ideas in Vince McMahon? This allowed Russo to shine, but when given free reigns (WCW, TNA later on) you would realize just how stupid his storylines were
Perhaps that is why MGS feels so restrained and "normal" compared to everything afterwords, after that game and the success it achieved, it seems Kojima became the king over at Konami and nobody could tell him no. Who knows what MGS2 would have been like if there was a guy who outranked Kojima and told him 'no' on several occasions?
Obviously i am just speculating, i do not know the inner workings at Konami, but i do know that there is a huge difference between the original MGS and basically everything that followed it
He always had complete control over MGS, as far as I know. There's never been any filter. Blaustein served as sort of a filter, but didn't get a job after MGS.