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What some Japanese developers think of NGP/PSP2
- Thread starter KAL2006
- Start date
timetokill
Banned
Amir0x said:
Nintendo has competition, though. What's the problem?
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
Personally I'm not excited about MP gaming on 3G. As far as I know, it is the most battery-taxing feature on any portable, and unless the "3-5 hours" estimation was made with the 3G in mind (thus ignoring the Wifi only model), I don't think it'll be worth it.gofreak said:
timetokill said:
You need viable competition to force Nintendo to not be a shithead company as they are naturally inclined to be.
PSP only barely made a burp back in Japan, and in the US the thing is shit.
If Nintendo continues to dominate in the handheld space, we'll continue to be held back by their usually cheap-ass decisions. We need alternatives that are viable and at the very least moderately successful. Hell, even given PSP's low status, I do not doubt for a second there were one or two 3DS decisions that were natural responses to some of the PSP's old features.
If NGP is priced as high as some of these people are thinking (and I'm thinking), then it'll be a failure and no one will make games for it and the market will be shackled by Nintendo once more.
jackdoe said:
Ok, it made a really big burp. But it is not really heated competition for the DS even in Japan; and it's not a viable worldwide competitor which is just as necessary in being considered a true contender.
If Sony was in charge, they'd need a viable competitor too or they get too big for their bridges. Look what they did with PS3 because they had no viable competitors at the time.
Hell, the 3DS is $250. Iwata said partially this was because they heard fans reaction to the reveal and knew they could charge that much. This is the sort of thing that happens when there are no alternatives. Companies charge more, they make more conservative design decisions, consumers hurt.
Magicpaint
Member
Yeah, the PSP took a while to REALLY take off, but the last couple of years have been a tight race and it even pipped the DS last year. I hope we get this kind of competition from the get go. I am very disappointed with some of the decisions made by Nintendo with the 3DS and on the other hand am pleasantly surprised and impressed by the NGP in general. My only concern is that developers always say stuff when a new hardware is out, let's hope they are really serious about the NGP and not just mouthing off (then again they'd be stupid to since the PSP is quite big in Japan)jackdoe said:
H_Prestige
Banned
Amir0x said:
I think Nintendo just does whatever it wants to do, whether or not they're getting their ass kicked or dominating.
NGP will be $250-300 at launch. Anything beyond that is simply wishful thinking given the highly conservative nature of the device and the hints Sony has dropped about their pricing strategy.
H_Prestige
Banned
Yes, 250. They could sell the thing at a loss initially if they think it is worth it.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Who knows, it' could be $250 with a forced value pack of headphones and a case for $75-$100 dollars more.
H_Prestige
Banned
Amir0x said:
The processing cores inside are run of the mill. Every 2011 smartphone/tablet is using the same tech. OLED is nothing unique. What exactly about this device is so out there?
Father_Brain
Banned
And even if Sony somehow manages to match 3DS at $250 (which would genuinely shock me), Nintendo will just respond by launching a new $250 bundle SKU including Mario Kart or another big first-party title. There is, in short, little to nothing that Sony could plausibly do pre-launch that would lead Nintendo to see NGP as enough of a threat to justify a price cut or any other drastic changes to its strategy.
If 3DS sales over the course of 2011 or against the NGP launch are underwhelming, then anything could happen. But right now, that doesn't seem too likely.
If 3DS sales over the course of 2011 or against the NGP launch are underwhelming, then anything could happen. But right now, that doesn't seem too likely.
OldJadedGamer
Banned
Amir0x said:
Right, but with the original PSP they tacked on another $50 bucks in the US and UK if you wanted the extras or not. Who knows if they do the same here to both versions.
H_Prestige
Banned
Amir0x said:
Ok fine, not every. But extremely common. Iphone/ipad and Galaxy S devices are based on it.
I think the only reason you should see the wifi version not be overpriced is due to the fact they will probably overprice the 3g one. I have a hard time thinking, given sony comments about not having another ps3 situation, that both wifi and 3g ones would be over 300. That said I think the 3g will be 350+ easy, the question will be if you can get a subsided one from a carrier.
timetokill
Banned
Amir0x said:
The PSP did pretty well in Japan, at least, and Japan is what informs most of Nintendo's decisions (sometimes unfortunately). That said, Sony is not really Nintendo's only competition.
And with that in mind, I don't really see how the handheld space was "shackled" at all by the Nintendo DS. It did a lot of inventive things and expanded the space, as well as provided one of the best gaming libraries of all time. What's the issue?
Hitlersaurus Christ
Banned
It's interesting to see how much support the NGP appears to be getting from Japanese developers, though it's not unexpected. But I think that it will be a different situation in the US, where most people prefer console games. I'm personally a portable fan, but the fact is that many people in America want to sit down and play games on a big screen. The NGP has some amazing features and I can see it doing very well overseas, but will Western developers want to put the time and money into developing console-level titles for a system with a different/smaller userbase? With multiplatform titles, the majority of consumers will gravitate towards the console versions anyway. I believe I've heard a bit of talk about certain publishers avoiding the console for similar reasons.
I guess what I'm getting at is that it would be interesting to see western devs' comments on the matter and how they'd compare/contrast
I guess what I'm getting at is that it would be interesting to see western devs' comments on the matter and how they'd compare/contrast
H_Prestige
Banned
gcubed said:
You really think taking an iphone 5 and adding 2 extra cores is the same difference?
Ok fine, you can all continue the fantasy. NGP will cost $350-500 at launch and will be sold at a loss. There is simply too much tech stuffed in there.
Yeah, I'll wait until some actual games come out of all this enthusiasm. Sorry for the pessimistic outlook but devs say stuff like that all the time, especially if the platform maker has given them a little incentive to do so on the side.
Kojima on 3DS: "I've been waiting all my life for a system this powerful."
Riiiight...
Kojima on 3DS: "I've been waiting all my life for a system this powerful."
Riiiight...
timetokill said:
It held back handheld gaming technology by over six years; all the biggest games went to its N64-era crapware technology and all 3D games that came to the platform unanimously and without exception suffered for it. Other features, such as online functionality, were also complete fucking terrible.
RurouniZel
Asks questions so Ezalc doesn't have to
Seriously, if they want the NGP to be successful in the West, the absolute best thing they could do would be to include an HDMI out on the system so that all games could be outputted to an HD television.
Granted, it'd have to be a long cord for that to be comfortable...
Granted, it'd have to be a long cord for that to be comfortable...
H_Prestige
Banned
RurouniZel said:
Lack of hdmi isn't going to make or break this thing.
And for all we know maybe Sony didn't include it because they would rather sell an optional dock with hdmi out
Dedication Through Light
Member
Ezalc said:
Cyberconnect2 is good...surely you didnt miss the greatest game of this generation that they released, the phenomenally epically awesome Naruto Shippuden Ultimate Ninja Storm 2! Im ready for them to work their Naruto Shippuden wonders on the NGP...surely one of the main reasons why Im gonna get this device on Day 1, just as an investment for a gloriously bright Naruto future! Dattebayo!
H_Prestige
Banned
StevieP said:
No it didn't work out so well for the ps3. But it didn't cause any problems for the ps1, the ps2, or the psp. The ps3 was a poorly managed disaster.
charlequin
Banned
H_Prestige said:
This strawman position is absurd, yes, but your certainty in your lowballed estimate is also pretty absurd.
It's true that the NGP utilizes well-understood mobile phone technology in order to keep costs down. It's also true that it's using tech that's ahead of the standard mobile curve, partially in order to hedge against obsolescence for as long as possible: quad-cores are not currently planned for general release for either the CPU or GPU architecture used by the NGP until 2012, for example. Similarly, it has a similar overall build approach to a mobile phone, but as a dedicated gaming system it will incur costs that don't follow for such general-purpose devices -- a game system will generally utilize much faster (and more expensive) RAM configurations, for example.
A lot of people have suggested a device that can be sold at launch for $300-350 at somewhere between a tiny profit and a moderate but not extreme loss, and I think that's what we're looking at. The benefits of the mobile-esque architecture are really going to come in a year or two down the line, when Sony will be able to reduce the cost (and therefore, either boost the profit margin or chop the price) of the device very quickly as its parts hit mass adoption.
StevieP said:
It worked out great for the PS1 and PS2. The problem with the PS3 was how expensive it was to the consumer, how huge the loss they were taking on it was (something like $250 right at launch), and what a bad price-dropping roadmap they had in place (so they couldn't turn that high launch price around without taking even more huge losses.) Launching a system at something like a $30 loss at launch and aggressively cost-reducing the internals so in a year you're selling it at a profit is still a feasible model, just not the swing-for-the-rafters approach.
UntoldDreams
Member
I can only imagine what would happen if this thing came in at $400.
I can also imagine what would happen if it came in at $299 or under.
Its like the difference between rainbows and sewage.
I can also imagine what would happen if it came in at $299 or under.
Its like the difference between rainbows and sewage.
timetokill
Banned
Amir0x said:
It held back gaming technology by introducing different play methods through touchscreen technology? How about the two-screens model, which allowed for interesting new mechanics? The touchscreen was a vital change to the gaming handheld model.
Nintendo's choices as far as graphics hardware also led to a battery life that dwarfed the competition's, which until the 3DS was always Nintendo's methodology, and a huge part of why Nintendo's handhelds came out on top. Your personal tastes might be for cutting-edge graphics, but most consumers would rather have a reasonable battery life. It's unfortunate that neither handheld will have that next generation, at least until potential new models come out.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Well they're not exactly going to say anything bad about a future revenue stream..
jeremy1456
Junior Member
Amir0x said:
So if you really believe that then why did you encourage it by purchasing the system?
Do you just go out and purposefully buy things that you obviously hate?
The Take Out Bandit
Member
I don't buy it.
Japanese developers largely ignored the online play of the PSP, I doubt they'll change their tune with PSP2.
In fairness, most developers ignored online play for the PSP despite it launching with some amazing Western online games. Then the console just got ignored completely in the West. :\
Hey Akari Uchida, you know what those touch pads would be great for?
Rumble Roses! :3
Japanese developers largely ignored the online play of the PSP, I doubt they'll change their tune with PSP2.
In fairness, most developers ignored online play for the PSP despite it launching with some amazing Western online games. Then the console just got ignored completely in the West. :\
Hey Akari Uchida, you know what those touch pads would be great for?
Rumble Roses! :3
H_Prestige
Banned
The PSP's network capabilities were pretty weak. No proper PSN integration and only WiFi B.
Stephen Colbert
Banned
StevieP said:
They sold the PS3 for a loss of $400 early on by some estimates. That was ludicrous.
A loss of $70 or so on each system sold can be recouped pretty easily though.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
H_Prestige said:
I'm still not counting on hardware / software improvements changing the minds of Japanese developers.
It's going to be interesting to see. As of now I'm not remotely interested in what the PSP2 has to offer in terms of software; but in fairness we don't know entirely what's coming. Just a lot of uninspired ports / side quests of PS3 shovelware. :\