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[Scrabble]

Watchdogs.

For one, we're in the middle of an uproar about government surveillance, and yet, people have absolutely no issues with Joe Shmoe hacking everything in sight and finding people's personal information?

Which brings up the second point of how said game treats personal information. Gay, Lesbian, Transgender... These are for the person to disclose only, when they feel most comfortable to. The entire situation irked me to no end. Yes, its your choice to do what you want with the information. So why give a Homophobic/Transphobic person a tool to murder their hate targets?

Don't you think that's a discussion and stance that gives the game depth? I'm confused by what people are inferring with their examples of what's "morally objectionable." If you're saying the content and actions within the game are morally objectionable then that's one thing, but are you implying the game as a piece of fiction is morally objectionable? Those are two very distinct things that need to be cleared I feel like.

As for your second point, again, what's the issue? A homophobic/transphobic person is going to be a homophobic/transphobic person regardless if the game gives them the tools to act on their feelings. This is what makes games so fascinating, the player carves their own story and creates the character they inhabit in games. It doesn't make the game morally objectionable, the player is morally objectionable.

 

[SliceSabre]

Ultimate MvC3. I knew, I just knew they were going to release an upgrade version of MvC3 but I couldn't believe how quickly they ran and did it.

 

[someguyinahat]

Oblivion. Started us on a bad road DLC-wise.

Gameplay-wise? Syberia.

You: Wait, what?

Yeah, you heard me. I've mentioned this in the Steam thread before but I think it bears repeating. The protagonist needs to get an oar. Try to touch the oar? She complains that it's dirty and wet (in other words, she doesn't want to get her hands dirty.) The solution? Ask a mentally challenged boy to pick it up for you. The game had already established the boy was stronger than she was. Had she said it was too heavy for her, fine, have him pick it up, I'd say no problem. But no, your character actually makes the choice to have this developmentally handicapped boy pick up the oar because you don't want to sully your hands.

I usually don't care about a lot of things in video games. Fake violence is fake violence, same with other things. But SMT's use of names I consider sacred, I couldn't play that. I do like Persona and some of the SMT games, but the ones where they're using certain names... no thanks.

Yeah, I can understand that. One thing I've noticed about a lot of SMT games I've played though, is that they always refer to alignments of law and chaos or light and dark. They don't really refer to them as "good," even though they're called "angel" or whatnot, and they're always collectively referred to as "demons." You can always take the idea that even the ones claiming to be angels really aren't the angels of Christian lore, and they're just using those names. Further, the best ending tends to be the "neutral" one where you try to get things back to the way they were without demons. A lot of the games make it sound that you only use these demons because it's absolutely necessary for survival and that if there were any non-demon options, you'd take them.

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

If that was all that what had happened, I don't think anyone would have felt bad about it.

What actually happened was Kojima seemed to have run out of ideas on how to make skullface a villain of note. So he had

Spoiler

Skull face make a child rape a female character, had others rape her and then put bombs into her stomach and uterus, bomb rape, and used her to try and get rid of Big boss.

What makes this worse is, there is already shit like THE AFRICAN CHILD SOLDIERS , that are imply that Skullface is a bad guy. This horrible trivialization of a fucked up situation just because you couldn't think of anything and decided to mark millar out is horrible.

Its like a child learned a bad word, but the bad word is a slur and it hurts people, and the child is using it with no regards to how it relates or how it makes people feel. And its just making the child look bad, " See see, I know grown up stuff too, I can be adult ". Sure hypothetical child kojima, sure.

Wha??? I don't remember them saying she was raped anywhere, tortured yes, but not raped. Are thinking of the tape where you hear her getting whipped and Skullface tells Chico to go for it, as in whipping her himself.

 

[The_Darkest_Red]

That's why we have censorship laws. I honestly believe in free speech and that includes all art, gaming included. It's up to the lawmakers to force the laws upon us. With self-censorship art becomes meaningless.

I would definitely be offended by child molestation and many other things, but it's not my job to try to silence these "artists".

Censorship is a really hard topic, because when done wrong, it's harmful. When done right, it still might affect people who are not part of the censored target (happened here in Finland with our "child porn filtering", they banned the Thai Princess' official website and many other sites which had nothing to do with child porn).

EDIT: People just gets way too offended these day, it's like a plague of our times - IMHO. Just take a look at the 80s or even 90s, life was more simple then, we actually laughed to many of these things which are now offending people. People needs to relax.

The question isn't about whether or not something should be allowed to be created, it's about what you personally find morally objectionable.

 

[jackal27]

I'll probably get crap for this, but I'm a Christian and I remember as a kid Grandia 2's very atheist protagonist irking me a lot haha. It may have even been why I didn't finish it back then. The Shin Megami Tensei series gave me the willies too. Today I don't have an issue with that stuff though. I'm not insecure enough to get worked up about it. I love Grandia 2 and SMT is probably my favorite RPG series right now.

I guess that's just more me being offended though? Violence never freaked me out too much, but I remember even as a young teen, a lot of the sexist stuff in GTA grossing me out. I couldn't place my finger on why, but it really made me uncomfortable.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

The sims series. Who the hell is pricing all this dlc? And who is buying it and keeping the price up?

 

[R_thanatos]

Spoiler

cut your finger

in heavy rain..
That scene made me distrubed for a long time.

The

Spoiler

i have a son too

was lesd distrubing but not less impactfull

 

[border]

In terms of shitty business practices: Metal Gear Solid V : Ground Zeroes. It was just kinda disgusting to seem them sell 10% of a real game and give no indication to the consumer that they were buying a demo version. I was glad to see it receive relatively tepid sales (I think less that 350K across all platforms).

 

[Deified Data]

Oblivion. Started us on a bad road DLC-wise.

I'm willing to handwave this since Oblivion also offered us some of the last, best true expansions of the last gen on top of the horse armor.

 

[Currygan]

Carmageddon, probably

 

[KrM DeLorean]

GTA series.
CoD after the no Russian scene.

 

[vicnorris]

Carmaggedon cmon

 

[someguyinahat]

The sims series. Who the hell is pricing all this dlc? And who is buying it and keeping the price up?

Generalization alert: Women who don't play many games. If they're only interested in The Sims, they'll get many hours out of it, and try to expand it as much as they can.

 

[Praise the Lorde]

Never found a game morally objectional.

I, however, find business practices like ridiculous IAPs morally reprehensible.

 

[m@cross]

Manhunt was pretty wild but those Japanese games that are pretty much about beating and groping women surpass it.

Yup, this sums me up as well.

 

[Scrabble]

Do you not agree that The Witcher went out of its way to present women in a negative light? Because the rest of my post that you didn't quote addressed everything else. I'm not even hugely sensitive to this stuff - hell, I can find the way we choose to discuss it sometimes downright irritating - but in this case it was sort of impossible to ignore.

Did you play The Witcher?

Yes I played the witcher and felt many of the same ill emotions you did, but that doesn't mean I equate those emotions to the creators harboring those feelings portrayed in the game. The thought of "well how well is 'x' group represented" never crosses my mind in works of fiction. I don't care. I value good storytelling above making sure a certain group of people isn't perceived in a negative light as being this or that. Far too often the focus becomes on "well how can I be sure not to upset or offend people" when all that should matter is creating a compelling world, narrative, characters, etc.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Generalization alert: Women who don't play many games. If they're only interested in The Sims, they'll get many hours out of it, and try to expand it as much as they can.

Most appropriate response from a username ever? Lol

 

[nded]

I recall someone getting expelled for playing one of those Nazi deathcamp management sims in the school computer lab. I'd say those games count as morally objectionable.

 

[semiconscious]

Tough to say. I've played games where the main character does morally objectionable things (GTA, RDR, Fallout, Elder Scrolls) without actually finding the game to be morally objectionable. That seems weird to me, judging the game based on the actions of a character (which are in turn actions of the player). To really qualify for "morally objectionable" status, I feel the writers of the game have to have a certain sympathy for the vile acts the character commits, or perhaps grant the act some level of moral sanction through their writing or presentation...

sums up my feelings about the god of war series very well. while i'm not sure it was part of the original vision for the games, i feel the gore-lust glorification took hold in the second game, to the point of becoming one of the series distinctive features/draws, & that it's been deliberately cultivated from that point on...

my reaction to it has nothing to do with having a weak stomach, & everything to do with the way the developer seems to revel in it. for me, it sorta defines the concept of 'gratuitous', & i just can't get into it...

 

[GarbageBear]

Whoa! I understand what you're saying, and I dig AC a lot, but this helped me see in on a whole new level. It's kinda creepy cool!

Yeah, just go back and watch the ACV trailer.

No commentary, no judgement, no revenge story, no trying to change anything.

The world is just a place where violence and technology breed each other.

It does almost border on the fetishization of the tech, but the tone is colder than that.

 

[swazzyswess]

EDIT: People just gets way too offended these day, it's like a plague of our times - IMHO. Just take a look at the 80s or even 90s, life was more simple then, we actually laughed to many of these things which are now offending people. People needs to relax.

What? The '80s was full of people trying to ban music that had swearing. Mortal Kombat provoked widespread outrage in the early '90s and it had a fraction of the violence that games nowadays go completely unnoticed for. I think you're viewing the past with rose-colored glasses.

 

[Menome]

Wha??? I don't remember them saying she was raped anywhere, tortured yes, but not raped. Are thinking of the tape where you hear her getting whipped and Skullface tells Chico to go for it, as in whipping her himself.

You hear her clothes getting ripped off in the first piece of Tape 4 and subsequently Chico is told to "Take her now" in Part 2 after being forced to look at her naked. There's not really any ambiguity there.

 

[Kater]

Aside from the very early Zelda games, I actually think the franchise does a good job handling the ladies. Hyrule Warriors has made it more clear than ever just how much female badassery the series has.

Wind Waker also has

Spoiler

a badass pirate named Tetra who gets transformed into a princess (with lipstick, pink dress and jewelry) and then has to get rescued

. ALBW also features those old Damsel in Distress tropes.

I agree though, HW is a step in the right direction.

 

[Beelzebufo]

Other M or Pikmin 3

 

[Deified Data]

Yes I played the witcher and felt many of the same ill emotions you did, but that doesn't mean I equate those emotions to the creators harboring those feelings portrayed in the game. The thought of "well how well is 'x' group represented" never crosses my mind in works of fiction. I don't care. I value good storytelling above making sure a certain group of people isn't perceived in a negative light as being this or that. Far too often the focus becomes on "well how can I be sure not to upset or offend people" when all that should matter is creating a compelling world, narrative, characters, etc.

So essentially your stance is that games exist in a vacuum separate from their creator's worldview, and so long as you enjoy the story you don't care how they choose to represent certain groups of people? Here's a thought experiment:

Ethnic Cleansing, a 2002 FPS published by an independent neo-nazi music label. Let's say, hypothetically, that this game has a riveting storyline (it doesn't). Would you be undeterred by the game's representation of minorities as base bullet sponges so long as you thought the story was interesting, or the game performed well mechanically? I'm in no way equating The Witcher's representation of women to Ethnic Cleansing's treatment of minorities, except to say both games' writers seem to have a chip on their shoulder to wildly varying degrees.

As I said, Witcher didn't cross the line after which I could no longer enjoy it as a product, but I couldn't happily ignore its weird obsession with objectifying women, either. It just seemed so odd in a game that is otherwise so maturely written. The conquest cards are something I'd expect in a dirty shovelware game.

 

[Kriken]

"No Russian" still makes me feel dirty thinking about it. Probably not the first game I found something morally objectionable, but it stands out in my memory

 

[Raic]

I feel like I'm going to get shit for this, but I never felt good about mowing down cops in the Payday series

Here too. Not sure what it was about it, but I really felt like I was totally the bad guy.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

While there isn't anything I'd find particularly morally objectionable on a hard care basis because of my views towards video games, approaching the question liberally the first game would probably have been Breath of Fire II.

I usually don't care about a lot of things in video games. Fake violence is fake violence, same with other things. But SMT's use of names I consider sacred, I couldn't play that. I do like Persona and some of the SMT games, but the ones where they're using certain names... no thanks.

This is where I am at, I've never been big on the SMT/Persona series but I saw a friend play SMT2 and he just knew I was going to be uncomfortable with it despite me saying otherwise. I'm" pretty much bulletproof to everything except this kind of stuff though I have played many games containing such subject matter (on varying levels) so I am not completely adverse to these elements.

 

[iShouldGoPro]

Probably Grand Theft Auto.
Especially since the media made such a big deal about 3 and so on.
I still love to play the game but I wouldn't say it's the most appropriate game.

That or God of War.
Kratos will kill anyone

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

Because of actual content? Nothing. It's a video game.

Edit: I should clarify that I mean games I've actually played. Of course garbage like this exists.

 

[Richie]

Wind Waker also has

Spoiler

a badass pirate named Tetra who gets transformed into a princess (with lipstick, pink dress and jewelry) and then has to get rescued

. ALBW also features those old Damsel in Distress tropes.

I agree though, HW is a step in the right direction.

I actually thought of that same aspect of Wind Waker, and yes, I'll concede it's not smooth sailing (fitting wording for the game, eh?), but then you've gotta consider

Spoiler

the princess in question aids you in the battle against Ganon, and is vital to defeat him, proving her worth regardless of her newest looks

. As for ALBW (and the majority of Zelda games), one thing to point out is that, even if there's a lady to rescue as a plot point, she's not the only gal in the game; more often than not, there's a variety of female characters whom Link couldn't complete his quest without. Many a memorable one, not even counting partners such as Navi, Tatl or Midna; series mainstay Impa, wise mature woman Telma, Ashei from TP's Resistance (who's hinted to be the strongest in the group), just to name a few. There's a lot of female empowerment through the series just to focus on the Damsel in Distress aspect, at least to me.

 

[MidEvlDed]

The OP mentioned price gouging or things of that nature, so I would have to say Oblivion's horse armor was the first time I really found something like that objectionable.

On a similar note, the Dragon Age: Inquisition "deluxe" edition is $70 and all you get for your $10 is some armor, weapons, and a "valiant steed" which is, of course, an armored mount.

When I went to pre-order Dragon Age I found this pretty objectionable. There was a time when you would get a limited edition with a few DLC items just for pre-ordering a game.

I'm not saying that I want those items for free just because I pre-ordered, but I think $10 is pretty steep.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Not quite the same thing, but the best one I can think of was when Blizzard was (temporarily) planning on forcing real name usage in their official forums.

Thankfully they reversed it after what was arguably the biggest internet backlash in history (up until XBone DRM happened.)

 

[Krelian91]

Tales of the Abyss.
Instead of taking their responsabilities and admit they fucked up, the whole adult cast puts the blame on a guy who is de facto a seven years old child who only listened to the only guardian that didn't treat him like an idiot, and the rest of game is about him trying to redeem himself at the eyes of the world.

Bullshit writing at its finest. I enjoyed the game as a teenager but now I can't help finding the whole concept behind it as absolutely revolting.

 

[Village]

QFT.

This is actually the reason why I didn't buy it and probably the first game I objected too so much I wouldn't purchase. Except for all those loli grope/rape games or any game which tries to sexualize children/image of children, obviously. Sad games for sad lonely men.

I don't think it does that.

( although some on gaf will tell you koji made some weird games back in the day )

I will say, that he there are some things in narrative that require restraint , when over done they become cartoony. Sometimes that fits the bill, like the 007 esque everything in mgs3, sometimes not good because the situations and people in which you want to portray start to become trivialized when it becomes " game-ey " like war rape.

 

[GameAddict411]

God Of War games, especially the last two. The voilence reached ridiculous amounts, its not even funny anymore.



MW2 like everyone been saying, the first time I played it I was like " the politicians are going to have a field day with this". I know it was an important part of the story but they could choosen a better way to explain it to the players. Like a cutscene or through photos.

 

[Scrabble]

So essentially your stance is that games exist in a vacuum separate from their creator's worldview, and so long as you enjoy the story you don't care how they choose to represent certain groups of people? Here's a thought experiment:

Ethnic Cleansing, a 2002 FPS published by an independent neo-nazi music label. Let's say, hypothetically, that this game has a riveting storyline (it doesn't). Would you be undeterred by the game's representation of minorities as base bullet sponges so long as you thought the story was interesting, or the game performed well mechanically? I'm in no way equating The Witcher's representation of women to Ethnic Cleansing's treatment of minorities, except to say both games' writers seem to have a chip on their shoulder to wildly varying degrees.

As I said, Witcher didn't cross the line after which I could no longer enjoy it as a product, but I couldn't happily ignore its weird obsession with objectifying women, either. It just seemed so odd in a game that is otherwise so maturely written. The conquest cards are something I'd expect in a dirty shovelware game.

Of course not, but why is it only when we are faced with objectionable content, is it then obviously the views of the creators? There is sexism and misogyny in the Witcher, that's obvious. That doesn't make it a sexist and misogynistic game, or it's creators sexist and misogynistic as you seem to imply. They may be, I don't know, but I wouldn't make those judgments based on the witcher. Just like I wouldn't make judgments on Eli Roth being a deplorable sick fuck because he creates horror films with extremely disturbing and objectionable content.

As for Ethnic Cleansing, that's a pretty big straw man argument if I've ever seen one. Saying "well hypothetically speaking if ...." stop, there's nothing really to argue here. Yes it's obviously racist, and I'm not going to hypothetically pretend it has an amazing storyline. There's no basis for a discussion if we just bring in hypotheticals and straw man talking points. But yes, I care about compelling narratives more than I do making sure you don't offend certain groups of people or making sure you paint them in the best possible light. Look at Bioshock Infinite. It's narrative was more interesting because it wasn't afraid to paint a realistic picture of oppression and uprising, at the expense of making a safe "good vs evil" story line that very few would have issue with. A writer should strive to make a good narrative above worrying about the reaction and offense people may take with their work. If that means not making everyone hunky-dory than so be it.

 

[RoadHazard]

It has nothing to do with "separating real life from fiction." Words and images, regardless of whether they're real, can conjure feelings and reactions as powerful and visceral as real-life things. So are you never moved by a movie? Never made sad by a book? If you can feel those emotions, there's no reason you can't feel repulsion, disgust, etc.

Then again, maybe you're just taking issue with the word "objectionable." I'm not opposed to such games being made if people want to play them, but I personally object to subjecting myself to that level of unpleasantness.

Yes, I absolutely can feel such emotions when playing a game, watching a movie, etc. But seeing people get hurt, etc, never makes me feel bad like it would in real life. It can get a tiny bit uncomfortable in more extreme cases I guess, like with the shit that happens in the Saw movies and such. But no, never in a way that would make me go "this isn't OK, I object to this".

 

[Crash Station]

Tales of the Abyss.
Instead of taking their responsabilities and admit they fucked up, the whole adult cast puts the blame on a guy who is de facto a seven years old child who only listened to the only guardian that didn't treat him like an idiot, and the rest of game is about him trying to redeem himself at the eyes of the world.

Bullshit writing at its finest.

Oh, there's a game I forgot.

Maybe "morally objectionable" is too strong, but the portrayal of the characters definitely did not sit right with me. The only one with ANY qualms about killing is portrayed as a shithead just because he's a douche for the first half of the game. He still has compassion and an actual respect for human life, unlike all the "nice" characters who have long since become too cynical to value it as anything more than a number.

 

[JJMorris]

I really don't find the content of a video game objectionable. If the creation of a game negatively affected someone surrounding its production or release, then I will not play it. Like when Rovio, the developers of Angry Birds, refused to reward, or even credit the creator of Box2D, Erin Catto for their games. That could be considered a good reason not to play a specific game. The content of a video game is there to make you feel a certain way in the first place, whether they are good or bad. Some people posting here need really need a good definition of what is considered moral.

 

[Zodzilla]

Played JFK Reloaded for a media studies essay I was working on in college about violence in media.

I had never seen the Zapruder film before, so when I pulled the trigger and his head split open - I felt absolutely disgusting afterwards.

 

[Scrabble]

God Of War games, especially the last two. The voilence reached ridiculous amounts, its not even funny anymore.



MW2 like everyone been saying, the first time I played it I was like " the politicians are going to have a field day with this". I know it was an important part of the story but they could choosen a better way to explain it to the players. Like a cutscene or through photos.

So interactivity should only be allowed as long as it doesn't disturb or upset the player? I guess only mediums like video, photography,etc should challenge us I guess. And people wonder why video games aren't seen as art? The reaction and response of "it shouldn't have been playable" is exactly why video games have the potential to be so much more impactful than any other medium, and I welcome it.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Has to be No Russian. That level was all over mainstream media for weeks.

 

[PFD]

Candy Crush, that shit is vile

 

[Deified Data]

Of course not, but why is it only when we are faced with objectionable content, is it then obviously the views of the creators? There is sexism and misogyny in the Witcher, that's obvious. That doesn't make it a sexist and misogynistic game, or it's creators sexist and misogynistic as you seem to imply. They may be, I don't know, but I wouldn't make those judgments based on the witcher. Just like I wouldn't make judgments on Eli Roth being a deplorable sick fuck because he creates horror films with extremely disturbing and objectionable content.

As for Ethnic Cleansing, that's a pretty big straw man argument if I've ever seen one. Saying "well hypothetically speaking if ...." stop, there's nothing really to argue here. Yes it's obviously racist, and I'm not going to hypothetically pretend it has an amazing storyline. There's no basis for a discussion if we just bring in hypotheticals and straw man talking points. But yes, I care about compelling narratives more than I do making sure you don't offend certain groups of people or making sure you paint them in the best possible light. Look at Bioshock Infinite. It's narrative was more interesting because it wasn't afraid to paint a realistic picture of oppression and uprising, at the expense of making a safe "good vs evil" story line that very few would have issue with. A writer should strive to make a good narrative above worrying about the reaction and offense people may take with their work. If that means not making everyone hunky-dory than so be it.

But you really can't call a game like Ethnic Cleansing obviously racist without calling a game like The Witcher obviously sexist, can you? You admit it plainly. Sometimes writers have an agenda. I'm not saying you have to stop playing the game if you disagree with it - as I stated previously I finished and enjoyed The Witcher - I'm just saying that I noticed it and it was irksome. The casual misogyny of The Witcher had nothing to do with world building, it didn't contribute to the narrative, it was exactly as I described: casual, almost like a second thought. How does getting a trading card of a naked Abigail who you just fucked in exchange for sparing her life contribute to a compelling narrative?

 

[jetjevons]

The first 30 playable seconds of Watch Dogs.

You are told you have to

Spoiler

shoot Maurice, you have no choice but to point the gun at him, pull the trigger, and *click* you're just faking him out.

I wouldn't say it was objectionable, but in a game that sold on the promise of endless options it caught me off guard and just left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[The Technomancer]

For as much as I talk about japanese games with...a certain class of aesthetics I don't find most of them actually morally objectionable, its more a media/cultural critique issue. I don't think that people who enjoy sexy looking fourteen year old innocent-affect anime girls are bad, I just find that creepy and I try to urge examination of just whats going on there.

Monster Monpiece though, the art there crossed a line for me I think.

As Deified Data mentioned above though, this kind of thing is all about context and tone. Depicting violent, racist, sexually objectifying, or whatever content isn't intrinsically a problem ever, its only when the way its framed is clearly masturbatory that I get uncomfortable.

 

[WaffleTaco]

Sims 4. Really surprised by the amount of people saying GTA.

 

[revolverjgw]

Nothing I've played has offended me, but a lot of those Japanese graphic adventures look very unnerving.