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[Stephen Colbert]

I think 2GB is a reasonable guess.

It would really depend on what ram Nintendo is using. If they are using the blazing fast super expensive 1T-Ram that the GC, Wii, DS and 3DS use, I would be pleased with even 1GB of it.

If they use slower gpu ram like GDDR5, they should use 2GB at the very least.

 

[Kenka]

I think graphics technology will be around Llano with 320 shader units. This is D3D11 compliant and will do all the things the "real" next gen will do, maybe only with lower resolution/framerates/geometry. Together with triple- or quad core either AMD or PPC processor. I expect 1GB of RAM plus eDRAM.

Well, ok, but what cooling system is required ? Does that fit in a Wii-like dimensions case ?

 

[Mr_Brit]

I think 2GB is a reasonable guess.

It would really depend on what ram Nintendo is using. If they are using the blazing fast super expensive 1T-Ram that the GC, Wii, DS and 3DS use, I would be pleased with even 1GB of it.

If they use slower gpu ram like GDDR5, they should use 2GB at the very least.

Nah, 1GB max.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Llano, and Trinity are designed to fit inside of laptops. So I don't see why they can't fit in the Wii 2.

 

[Lupin the Third]

I think 2GB is a reasonable guess.

It would really depend on what ram Nintendo is using. If they are using the blazing fast super expensive 1T-Ram that the GC, Wii, DS and 3DS use, I would be pleased with even 1GB of it.

If they use slower gpu ram like GDDR5, they should use 2GB at the very least.

Nintendo is big on ultra-fast RAM in their units. I think it's a safe bet that Nintendo will use "less than expected, but faster." I probably said it already, but I'm pretty sure some people criticized the GameCube specs for this very reason: didn't seem like enough RAM, esp. when compared to the Xbox.

What doesn't make sense to me is: why faster RAM is any better? OK, yes, faster RAM is better because you can access info more quickly, like textures and models, but isn't the disc reader the big bottleneck, there? Now, if you have a mix of lots of "slow" RAM (for streaming from the disc) and a bit of "Turbo" RAM (for managing info with a more immediate need), then that makes sense to me. Is that how the GameCube and Wii handled it? I don't recall.

EDIT: Yeah, GameCube has 43MB total: 3 MB On-GPU "Fast" RAM, 24MB main system "Fast" RAM, 16MB DRAM for disc streaming. I'm sure Wii is similar, but more. OXbox has 64MB. You can see why Nintendo stopped publishing system specs.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

Nah, 1GB max.

Trinity is for the most part going to be paired with 4GB of DDR3 ram. I could see Nintendo use that configuration. If they use a faster ram, they will almost certainly decrease the amount of ram.

 

[crazy monkey]

so am i the only one who think it will be level of 360 or lower and main trump card will be AR games.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Trinity is for the most part going to be paired with 4GB of DDR3 ram. I could see Nintendo use that configuration. If they use a faster ram, they will almost certainly decrease the amount of ram.

You're crazy, you can't seriously believe what you've just wrote?

If you're not going to explain why you think that then why post?

Any reason why 2GB is out of the question? I thought I explained pretty well why it's perfectly possible a few posts up but if there is a major flaw in my reasoning, please enlighten me.

This is the same Nintendo that launched a $250 handheld in 2011 with 128mb of RAM. It's not out of the question, it's just highly unlikely as we know Nintendo want to keep costs as low as possible from launch and they want to make high profits from launch. Using 2GB of GDDR5 is highly completely contrary to what Nintendo have been doing for their last three pieces of hardware.

 

[Caramello]

Nah, 1GB max.

If you're not going to explain why you think that then why post?

Any reason why 2GB is out of the question? I thought I explained pretty well why it's perfectly possible a few posts up but if there is a major flaw in my reasoning, please enlighten me.

Nintendo is big on ultra-fast RAM in their units. I think it's a safe bet that Nintendo will use "less than expected, but faster." I probably said it already, but I'm pretty sure some people criticized the GameCube specs for this very reason: didn't seem like enough RAM, esp. when compared to the Xbox.

What doesn't make sense to me is: why faster RAM is any better? OK, yes, faster RAM is better because you can access info more quickly, like textures and models, but isn't the disc reader the big bottleneck, there? Now, if you have a mix of lots of "slow" RAM (for streaming from the disc) and a bit of "Turbo" RAM (for managing info with a more immediate need), then that makes sense to me. Is that how the GameCube and Wii handled it? I don't recall.

EDIT: Yeah, GameCube has 43MB total: 3 MB On-GPU "Fast" RAM, 24MB main system "Fast" RAM, 16MB DRAM for disc streaming. I'm sure Wii is similar, but more. OXbox has 64MB. You can see why Nintendo stopped publishing system specs.

Q: How is 1T-SRAM better suited for consoles?

Iwata: There's a major difference in random-access time between RDRAM and 1T-SRAM. RDRAM's most distinctive feature is that the first read from memory is very latent, but if you read in a lot of consecutive data at once, the latency gradually shrinks down. The problem is, games access memory very haphazardly, reading little fragments here and there again and again. The merits of RDRAM aren't geared towards this type of usage. A typical memory wait is a few dozen nanoseconds, and on a 480MHz processor or a 160MHz video chip that's a few dozen cycles wasted waiting for memory.

More here on the GameCube's memory set up with more from Iwata himself: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/editorial/516

Edit:

This is the same Nintendo that launched a $250 handheld in 2011 with 128mb of RAM. It's not out of the question, it's just highly unlikely as we know Nintendo want to keep costs as low as possible from launch and they want to make high profits from launch. Using 2GB of GDDR5 is highly completely contrary to what Nintendo have been doing for their last three pieces of hardware.

That 128MB of RAM is 32 times the amount of RAM in the original DS and DS Lite. On top of the fact that it would fit the pattern to have 2GB, I think it's a possibility.

Of course its not a certainty but saying it'll definitely not happen is on the same level of logic as saying that 2GB definitely will happen. There are different points to each argument which leads to the conclusion that 1 - 2GB of RAM is likely, nothing else can be said, only speculated.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

You're crazy, you can't seriously believe what you've just wrote?


This is the same Nintendo that launched a $250 handheld in 2011 with 128mb of RAM.

Sure I do. If Nintendo opts to save themselves the cost and hassle of making a new chip and instead uses a cutting edge off the shelf apu for their next system, they will likely pair it with amount of ram that the apu will be paired off with for the most part.

Using an off the shelf Trinity apu makes sense financially. It's going to be fast, and cutting edge, cheap, and best of all, they can shave a huge amount of money off the R&D costs. So instead of sinking a billion into R&D and having to use a less powerful chip, they could get rid of the R&D cost entirely and use a fairly cutting edge chip.

 

[Mr_Brit]

Sure I do. If Nintendo opts to save themselves the cost and hassle of making a new chip and instead uses a cutting edge off the shelf apu for their next system, they will likely pair it with amount of ram that the apu will be paired off with for the most part.

Using an off the shelf Trinity apu makes sense financially. It's going to be fast, and cutting edge, cheap, and best of all, they can shave a huge amount of money off the R&D costs. So instead of sinking a billion into R&D and having to use a less powerful chip, they could get rid of the R&D cost entirely and use a fairly cutting edge chip.

They can pair the APU with whatever memory configuration they want, just because AMD are going for 4GB DDR3 doesn't mean that Nintendo have to or that there are any inherent advantages of doing so. Nintendo are much more likely based on the rumours and their previous history to go for 1GB GDDR5.

 

[Ryoma-Echizen]

Was looking at the AMD fusion netbook reviews, and the current core under trinity (Brazos) is very poor, Oh well maybe alot can happen in a year.

Inform yourself better.

Trinity is not a low power core. It's based on a bulldozer(2-4) with a 400SP+(better than Llano) IGP.

Brazos is just 1-2 core with 80SP IGP. Totally different worlds. One is a high end APU and the other a low power low end APU.


You mean the Fusion line? That covers:

2011
Low end 40nm
Ontario / Zacate (Brazos)
1-2core 80SP IGP

Mid-High end 32nm
Llano (Husky cores, based on current Phenom II cores)
2-4core 160-400SP IGP

2012
Low end 28nm
Wichita / Krishna
2-4 core 80SP+ IGP

Mid-High end 32nm
Trinity (based on Zambesi cores)
2-4core 160+/400+ SP IGP

 

[-MB-]

It will be somewhere between 3 and 4. 1080p 60fps on default and enough power to at least have some advancement in AI and geometrics.
It will have the closest to pc version of the multiplats and not look dated and old hat once
both MS and Sony release their potentially true next gen specced systems.
Or maybe Nintendo is banking on both of them having learned from this generation
and not goign for bleeding edge, essentially giving them a year for free, like 360 had.

But the biggest crux to me, if they are going for the core market, is if they are going to
make an effort to bring their online experience up to par with xblive.
If they're not going far enough, then I don't think it will work out for them.
You can see it with PSN already, eventhough it is miles ahead of the Wii's online system.
Most still consider it inferior to xblive, and pick the 360 version of a multiplatform to play
online with.
Also the longer they wait, the harder it will get to convert people already on the other 2s
online systems. They will have built up a friendlist there they routinely play with or against
and probably won't want to leave that behind for an uncertain future on a Nintendo system.
And this will only be magnified if Sony and MS just migrate the current useraccounts to a new system.
This would make it a nobrainer for anyone who already has a huge friendlist on xblive or psn,
to just buy that new system and continue as is.

 

[aronnov reborn]

i'll be dissapointed if the 360 and ps3 rush out a new console. i still feel like the games on the 360 and ps3 are still getting perfected and pushing the hardware more and more. would like a couple more years with them at least. no new console until 4th quarter 2013 please at the earliest.

 

[Instro]

so am i the only one who think it will be level of 360 or lower and main trump card will be AR games.

Isnt that the least likely scenario? They'd have to try pretty hard to make a system weaker or only on par with current consoles.

 

[Lupin the Third]

Isnt that the least likely scenario? They'd have to try pretty hard to make a system weaker or only on par with current consoles.

Or at least sell it at rock-bottom pricing ($200 at 2012 launch). That said, it's still a terrible idea.

 

[Effect]

I don't think it's prudent for fans to expect Nintendo to offer a big leap in technology.

You can see their philosophy in the leap it was made from DS to 3DS and Gamecube to Wii. Why would they suddenly offer a PSP to NGP jump?

Because GameCube to Wii wasn't a leap but more of a hop. They did that on purpose. Since they never did the Xbox to Xbox 360 leap their leap has to be bigger then the norm. Which is why they would have to go for example from Xbox to Xbox 540 or around there on the lower side . They're an entire generation behind and to even compete with the the PS3/360 and their successors (which will jump them because their hardware has to be profitable from day 1) they have to jump to this degree. By compete I mean to get 3rd party support/games.

The DS to 3DS was also more of a N64 to Cube jump. Nintendo has always done the standard power leap as everyone else with the Cube to Wii being the exception.

Their online system is really the big thing. I think we'll get a hint of it come the May update for the 3DS. The OS interface is already significantly better then what is on the Wii I feel. This also should be a stripped down version of what the next console should have.

 

[poppabk]

It will be funny if they go the whole nine yards and go for two hardware 'generations' worth of advancements in one go. People who aren't really aware of gaming except for the Wii will have a similar experience to if they went directly from the PS1 to the PS3.
This

to this

 

[wsippel]

IBM has already confirmed not long ago that they're still working with Nintendo, so even if you dismiss the 01net rumors, we're still most likely looking at a PowerPC CPU.

 

[[Nintex]]

IBM has already confirmed not long ago that they're still working with Nintendo, so even if you dismiss the 01net rumors, we're still most likely looking at a PowerPC CPU.

Yep that was confirmed many moons ago:
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090724/NEWS/907249998

Damn I totally forgot about that, back then people figured it would be for the new handheld or the rumored Wii HD that would upscale.

 

[heyf00L]

Nintendo might put PowerPC architecture in there for perfect back compat.

 

[MultiCore]

It will be funny if they go the whole nine yards and go for two hardware 'generations' worth of advancements in one go. People who aren't really aware of gaming except for the Wii will have a similar experience to if they went directly from the PS1 to the PS3.
This
http://www.elhabib.at/wp-content/uploads/2008/02/granturismo1.jpg[IMG]
to this
[IMG]http://www.thetechtics.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/gran-turismo-51.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

I don't want to derail this, but GT5 doesn't really look that nice while you're playing it. At least the GT1 shot was in-game.

I do agree though, Mario Galaxy 3 with 2 generations of updates could be quite the leap.
I'm not sure if Nintendo's development teams are ready to take advantage of that, but I'd love to be surprised.

 

[wsippel]

Nintendo might put PowerPC architecture in there for perfect back compat.

Having an ARM, a PowerPC and a multicore AMD64 processor in one system? No, I don't really think so. Looking at IBM's current PowerPC portfolio, I guess Nintendo will use a quad core design based on either 470 or A2 cores, or maybe modified PowerXCell PPEs with VMX128 or VSX units.

 

[MrBelmontvedere]

Well, ok, but what cooling system is required ? Does that fit in a Wii-like dimensions case ?

no, the system would have to be significantly bigger unless N wants a whole bunch of "RROD" style console failures.

the "new" PS3 slim for example puts out a prodigious amount of heat. they sacrificed system reliability for the sake of being all svelte and compact.

 

[wsippel]

Yep that was confirmed many moons ago:
http://www.recordonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090724/NEWS/907249998

Damn I totally forgot about that, back then people figured it would be for the new handheld or the rumored Wii HD that would upscale.

It was reconfirmed just half a year ago:

IBM is working with gaming machine vendors including Nintendo and Sony, said Jai Menon, CTO of IBM's Systems and Technology Group, during an interview Thursday. "We want to stay in the business, we intend to stay in the business," he said.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=23762031&postcount=1

 

[Log4Girlz]

It will be funny if they go the whole nine yards and go for two hardware 'generations' worth of advancements in one go. People who aren't really aware of gaming except for the Wii will have a similar experience to if they went directly from the PS1 to the PS3.
This

to this

Diminishing returns says NO. Anyone expecting Mario Galaxy 3 or whatever equivalent to totally take a shit on the previous games will be sorely disappointed.

As for the person asking why companies like to use fast RAM. Well its a trade-off. More RAM gives you more space to store all those things you want the game to handle in a given scene/area/level, i.e. more higher res textures etc. But fast RAM gives you the ability to actually process more data, i.e. more geometry, better AI and physics etc. Slow RAM basically wastes CPU and GPU cycles, they stand by idle a greater amount of time than if you were playing with faster RAM.

 

[Cow Mengde]

As for the person asking why companies like to use fast RAM. Well its a trade-off. More RAM gives you more space to store all those things you want the game to handle in a given scene/area/level, i.e. more higher res textures etc. But fast RAM gives you the ability to actually process more data, i.e. more geometry, better AI and physics etc. Slow RAM basically wastes CPU and GPU cycles, they stand by idle a greater amount of time than if you were playing with faster RAM.

Not to mention your machine needs to be fast enough to use that ram. Having too much RAM when it can't even run fast enough to fill it just wastes RAM. I remember when I was first looking for a video card and I kept wondering why this card only came with 128 MB of RAM. Turns out it wasn't fast enough and having 256 MB was pointless.

 

[brain_stew]

I don't think it's prudent for fans to expect Nintendo to offer a big leap in technology.

You can see their philosophy in the leap it was made from DS to 3DS and Gamecube to Wii. Why would they suddenly offer a PSP to NGP jump?

DS to 3DS was bigger than the leap from PSP to NGP, though.

 

[Ezduo]

Fake.

 

[Log4Girlz]

From the other thread:

So...what your'e saying is that it'll run a PC game released on 2007? I said WOW.

 

[Lonely1]

So...what your'e saying is that it'll run a PC game released on 2007? I said WOW.

That means is considerably more powerful than the 360, though. Crysis Collection (One and Warhead) as launch title!

 

[H_Prestige]

He didn't say at which settings Crysis would run. Anything modern can run that game and blow the ps3 and 360 out of the water so I'm not sure what conclusion you can draw from that comment.

 

[Lonely1]

He didn't say at which settings Crysis would run. Anything modern can run that game and blow the ps3 and 360 out of the water so I'm not sure what conclusion you can draw from that comment.

Well many believe that this will be roughly on par with the 360.

 

[antonz]

So...what your'e saying is that it'll run a PC game released on 2007? I said WOW.

Crysis is not just any game.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Crysis is not just any game.

Ok the David Perry quote was fake. And yea I was being a bit facetious, I know that its still used as an important benchmark for new video cards.

 

[First Children]

With the Wii they got new people into gaming, now this people they hooked won't be satisfied with something a generation behind in graphics, I think Nintendo will try a half-hardcore way, or they risk to became the "entry level" for gamers that then pass to other consoles.

I'm expecting something in the 299-399$ range depending on the controller.

 

[Snakeyes]

DS to 3DS was bigger than the leap from PSP to NGP, though.

Pretty much. A sub-N64 to Xbox+ upgrade is pretty significant.

 

[Always-honest]

Pretty much. A sub-N64 to Xbox+ upgrade is pretty significant.

jump from PSP to NGP seems bigger imo.

 

[Instro]

jump from PSP to NGP seems bigger imo.

In what way? NGP graphics are nicer of course, but the disparity between NGP and 3DS visuals is clearly less than that of PSP vs DS visuals.

 

[Caramello]

jump from PSP to NGP seems bigger imo.

Really? I mean yeah its a big jump but the way I see it, the 3DS power jump over the DS actually allows games to be playable that wouldn't have worked on the DS whereas the NGP is mostly only improving games that could already run on the PSP.

 

[Oblivion]

Wait, wait, wait....

The 3DS has 128 MB of RAM? :O

 

[DonMigs85]

Not to mention your machine needs to be fast enough to use that ram. Having too much RAM when it can't even run fast enough to fill it just wastes RAM. I remember when I was first looking for a video card and I kept wondering why this card only came with 128 MB of RAM. Turns out it wasn't fast enough and having 256 MB was pointless.

Yep, that's why it's better to get a 512MB GDDR5 card as opposed to the same card with 1GB DDR3.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

Wait, wait, wait....

The 3DS has 128 MB of RAM? :O

I've heard it both ways. 128MB of FCRAM and 64MB of FCRAM and 32MB of something slower for the OS.

I believe it was finally settled when someone cut open the ram package and found two 64MB FCRAM chips in one package.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I've heard it both ways. 128MB of FCRAM and 64MB of FCRAM and 32MB of something slower for the OS.

I believe it was finally settled when someone cut open the ram package and found two 64MB FCRAM chips in one package.

And wasn't it determined to be pretty speedy to boot? I don't get where the 3DS=outdated shit opinion comes from. Older parts sure, but the impression people share really makes me believe they think its a piece of shit.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

128mbs of obscenely fast ram is probably sufficient for a system about as powerful as the dreamcast/gamecube/xbox 1 rendering games at a low resolution. They didn't skimp.

I don't think they'll skimp on the ram with their console either. And if it's modern and designed for 1080p I would expect and hope to see 2gb of fast ram (gddr or xdr).

 

[lostinblue]

I don't think they'll skimp on the ram with their console either. And if it's modern and designed for 1080p I would expect and hope to see 2gb of fast ram (gddr or xdr).

I'd like to see the 1T-SRAM applied to any RAM they use.

 

[Grampa Simpson]

And wasn't it determined to be pretty speedy to boot? I don't get where the 3DS=outdated shit opinion comes from. Older parts sure, but the impression people share really makes me believe they think its a piece of shit.

They compare it to the specs listed for their smartphone. They compare the fact that they had to pay $250 for the 3DS to the subsidized $0.01 they had to pay for their smartphone.

They look at the ram size and nothing else not ignoring the fact that on their smartphone they're running slower ram and running a bunch of applications in the background, where the 3DS only runs one thing at a time plus a small menu kept in the background.

My position on this is that those who say that the 3DS has too little ram don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

 

[Log4Girlz]

If Cafe turns out to be a 1 or 2...I would not be surprised if MS actually sits on a successor for a while. I actually don't think a Wii successor would sell big for very long since it does not have as big a gimmick this time around. As much as I would like a 4 or 5, I know it's not going to happen, though I am not 100% certain. In the back of my mind I still justify the possibility of a 4 or 5 if Nintendo looks to once again use the architecture for 10 years (the gamecube is '99 tech). Naturally, it would not be a sloppy effort at attaining power, and they will make an efficient machine that cuts corners where it can. I can only hope for this attitude.

Now, for the life of me, I cannot find a quote by Iwata, which I believe IGN long ago posted where he basically said the next-generation effort from Nintendo would be on par with the Xbox 360. Does anyone else remember this? New is at least a year old.

They compare it to the specs listed for their smartphone. They compare the fact that they had to pay $250 for the 3DS to the subsidized $0.01 they had to pay for their smartphone.

They look at the ram size and nothing else not ignoring the fact that on their smartphone they're running slower ram and running a bunch of applications in the background, where the 3DS only runs one thing at a time plus a small menu kept in the background.

My position on this is that those who say that the 3DS has too little ram don't know what the fuck they're talking about.

Good assessment!

 

[1-D_FTW]

I have no idea what they're doing any more. I've kind of changed my opinion and think they'll go with the most tech AMD can cram into 60 watts.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27272873&postcount=13541

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=27273538&postcount=13566

My logic explained in the main thread.

 

[-WindYoshi-]

If Cafe turns out to be a 1 or 2...I would not be surprised if MS actually sits on a successor for a while. I actually don't think a Wii successor would sell big for very long since it does not have as big a gimmick this time around

Careful now... I get the feeling that this may be one of those comments people look back at in a few years and think "wow, little did he know".