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[Shizuka]

There are several different approaches to localization, even gamers considering direct translations superior to a careful localization. It's been decades where we've gotten pearls from localizations, be it intentional or not.

From recent memory, it's been discussed as Nintendo is taking localization one step too far for many gamers, mostly for their RPG localizations, including Fire Emblem Fates and Bravely Second.

We have decisions from removing a minigame from one to changing a class altogether for the other game. These are two examples among many that are upsetting a number of gamers that these games are aimed towards, while others defend these changes as being beneficial to the overall experience the games provide.

While I'm not particularly sensitive to this issue, I've had cases where I feel it's taking one step too far, as in the Fire Emblem Fates convo replacing the dialogue with "...". In that case, you lose the entire context of any story between characters and don't provide anything to replace that which has been removed.

This is entirely subjective, but when is localization taking one step too far in gaming for you?

 

[TUSR]

Boob slider.

(The inability to customize your self insert character because..?)

Edit: Is this actually censorship?

 

[Platy]

These "one step too far" are things that existed since the SNES days =P

Evil Kirby and Big Eyebrows Ratchet are the only ones where it took a step too far for me, but just because of the hilariaty that it created

Boob slider.

(The inability to customize your self insert character because..?)

You can customize your character in the same way male characters can in the japanese version.
If you complain about lack of options in the USA version, than you should complain about lack of options in the male characters in the japanese version too

 

[Nugg]

If you care that much about a specific culture and all its specificities, you really should learn the language.

 

[Puruzi]

content removal

 

[YesManKablam]

Spoiler

All of Persona 1 on the PS1.

 

[Funyarinpa]

When you remove or drastically change anything when motivated by the concern that it'll cause uproar to the demographic.

If you care that much about a specific culture and all its specificities, you really should learn the language.

Yes because everybody has the time, will and ability to learn a new language and a localization that conveys as much as possible of the original release in another language isn't something worth striving for.

 

[Mivey]

Spoiler

All of Persona 1 on the PS1.

This blackwashing must stop!

 

[Bumbletron]

I would rather have it be taken too far, as in the '...' conversation, which I thought was pretty clever and a nice change of pace (there are so many support convos in the game that after a while they all start to seem the same), than have boring, stilted translations.

I'm having a hard time coming up with a hard example for "This translation goes too far" myself anyway.

 

[PSqueak]

Before we can go into this topic i gues we need to define first when it stops being just localization and it becomes straight up censoring.

Removing the waifu petting minigame (regardless of the fact that i personally hate the idea of the minigame and applaud the choice to remove it) is straight up censorship, not "localization".

Kefka calling peoople "Son of a submariner" or Phoenix Wright games taking place in "america" is localization.

I think localization goes to far when the entire tone of a scene or changing the context entirely, like keeping with the FE example, turning the assassin bonding scene over their feelings about taking so many lives into a "silent cool character speak thru elipses" joke is just too removed from the original context.

 

[Platy]

Before we can go into this topic i gues we need to define first when it stops being just localization and it becomes straight up censoring.

Straight up censoring is when the Austrailian goverment say they will not allow Mortal Kombat to be sold in their country

 

[SturokBGD]

I honestly can't think of a localization that made me that angry. They're awesome/hilarious (usually unintentionally), or not worth mentioning.

I wouldn't hold it against Nintendo for wanting to sell their game to a bigger market than just ignorant manbabies.

In conclusion - eat your hamburgers, Apollo.

 

[Neoleo2143]

Arrrguably, the Changes to Fates make me enjoy the game even more so, I'm actually okay there minus two things. The supports for the bisexuals were actually unique in the Japanese version and this isn't the case in the localized version, in fact those unique supports were actually rather good supports and did a bit for nuance of those characters in question. Second was another thing concerning Niles, who was hit hardest by the removal of skinshipping dialogue, because his dialogue and progression there is excellent and completes his character in the Japanese version and as a result made him one of my favorite characters in the game, which isn't the case in the Localized version.

It's a case where Localization has both good and bad in my opinion, no real need to get up in arms about it.

Now Bravely Second, it's inconsistent as hell, I get that. So why remove the bad endings to the side quests? There's literally no reason to do this Squenix.

Edit: Also I keep hearing stuff about striving to incorporate the culture in localization. Problem is, certain aspects of various cultures are conflicting and are thus incomprehensible by another audience (for example S-Class Women in Japan), what do you do then?

 

[Solbringer]

Yes because everybody has the time, will and ability to learn a new language and a localization that conveys as much as possible of the original release in another language isn't something worth striving for.

This is a strawman and it honestly depends. Having actually learned a fair bit of Japanese to be able to play through visual novels, there are things that just plain don't localize well without major work done to them. Each language has their own nuances to be mindful of. I can say the same for English to Japanese. Some idioms or colloquialisms have no equivalent

 

[FluxWaveZ]

When something is outright removed and not changed/replaced.

Also, when illustrations in art books are removed.

 

[Tingle]

I don't think there is really an rule you can set. If the translation is good and the localizing doesn't bother most of the audience, then its probably not going too far. Especially for things which don't really stick out as being localized- if it fits in well, I don't think most people playing the game will have an issue with it.

 

[L Thammy]

 

[Tohsaka]

Removal/changing of content that would have no effect on the game's rating even if it was left in (ie: what happens in Nintendo's games).

 

[muteki]

Changes in Music really put me off. I see little value in attempting to Localize them.

I understand though "Gamers that these games are aimed towards" in most cases is not me or fans of any particular game, but the millions of people that didn't buy the last one.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I think localization changes are fine if something that is fine in say Japan for an E or T rating is not acceptable for the same rating in the West. For bravely default if they didn't want to have young teens in revealing clothing, then either make them older or edit some of the ridiculous outfits.

Now as to the native American outfit changed to Cowboys and the face rubbing, that's more on a case by case basis. In those it's an issue of it it's worth keeping it intact and deal with the fallout of a world in a different political climate?

 

[Sophia]

When the spirit of the original scene is blatantly and intentionally altered is generally when I take issue.

To use Fire Emblem Fates as an example of what I mean, the dialogue changes for Kana that everyone brings up, are actually what I'd consider a proper localization change. She speaks childlike in the Japanese version, and thus the English version's lines are perfectly acceptable in portraying how a child would act in English. Especially with the fact that the original Japanese dialogue is a little stifled to begin with, and a direct translation would only make it more so. On the other hand, you have stuff like the Saizo and Beruka support, where the entire dialogue was replaced with nothing but ellipses. This is an example of a blatant disregard for the spirit of the scene. It may or may not have been a localization change done with the approval of the original team, but the scene has been altered completely in a way that no longer conveys the same message. It also draws attention to the fact that the scene is out of place, even if you didn't know it was localized a specific way. That's not acceptable.

Localization is a difficult job, to say the least. Your end goal is to make it as appealing as possible to the intended audience while preserving the spirit of the original dialogue. When you add in the nuances that come with translating something from Japanese to English, it can be really hard to preserve everything. Knowing this, I look at what is a clear difference between a localization that merely has errors, and a localization that has disregarded the original script. It also says a lot to how well localization teams are today that we only have a few standout examples. Back in the SNES era, such alternations were the norm.

As an aside: FFXIV was also a game where the localization team, working directly with the original developers, did a liberal translation. And it's a very "love it or hate it" affair too. In many cases, it actively improved the game, as the localization efforts made it more appealing to western players. However there were a few times where such changes harmed the spirit of the original scene. The team behind the localization did apologize for these issues tho, and did work harder to make sure the spirit of the scene was kept intact for future content.

 

[smisk]

If you care that much about a specific culture and all its specificities, you really should learn the language.

I agree with this. Not a Japanese speaker, but I'm pretty sure most people whining about how they want a "direct translation" don't appreciate the complexities that go into translating a language like Japanese.

That being said, I'd prefer that content didn't get removed, like the Fatal Frame costumes.

 

[Funyarinpa]

This is a strawman and it honestly depends. Having actually learned a fair bit of Japanese to be able to play through visual novels, there are things that just plain don't localize well without major work done to them. Each language has their own nuances to be mindful of. I can say the same for English to Japanese. Some idioms or colloquialisms have no equivalent

Agreed, and that's why I said "as much as possible". I recognize that some works might have a difficult time getting transferred over, but that doesn't mean localizations have to be Politically Correct (tm). Yes, there might be problematic depictions and statements in games- but what's so wrong with wanting to see the problematic aspects of a game and culture as well?

 

[Neoleo2143]

Changes in Music really put me off. I see little value in attempting to Localize them.

I understand though "Gamers that these games are aimed towards" in most cases is not me or fans of any particular game, but the millions of people that didn't buy the last one.

So stuff like the Japanese version of Lost in Thoughts All Alone not being in the game? Honestly, music is a very touchy situation at times when you get into licensing as that song did.

 

[studyguy]

Even with literal translations and JP voice tracks on the disc, people still seem to find something to complain about in the end somehow. You're either going too far in where references go over most people's heads or not enough where people will say it's too liberal of an interpretation. From playing a ton of VNs, I just take it as it is, if you see it's something you don't agree with, just avoid buying. Whatever.

 

[kadotsu]

Whenever you infantilize your audience. While I prefer 99% of costume changes that had the internet all tizzy I would prefer the people localizing to give their customers the choice. Especially since the changes are weirdly biased to reducing sexual content while violence always remains untouched.

While we are at choices. It's 2016. Original VO is my expectation in a post DVD world. If you want to test the waters how viable dual audio is make it DLC for one game and analyze the adoption rate. At this point it is just Atlus who can't manage. I don't care who is to blame for this failure, fix either your licensing at development or you localization.

 

[kewlmyc]

None of the localizations as of late have made me upset, but some have confused me. FE:F for instance. I'm glad the minigame is gone. It's already annoying enough to not be able to skip the "wake up" and "blowing" minigames you occasionally get when bonding with your partner, god forbid you have had to do it every single time like in the original. However, the reward for filling up your partner's bond with you have bee removed from the game in the EN version, and nothing has replaced it from what I've been told, which sucks. So now there's no benefit for maxing out your partner's bond. If I'm wrong about this, please let me know.

Also making S rank for some characters like Kana be non romantic is stupid because it's not consistent. Male Kana gets turned down by most of the girls due to him looking so young (same with Percy), but a handful actually return his feelings. Why is it okay with some, but not others? It's odd. At least with female Kana, it's consistent and she only befriends all of her S ranks. Overall though, you still get the S rank benefits, so it doesn't matter, I just don't get the thought process behind it.

 

[Balb]

I'm not in favor of going the 100% translation route like some other people are, but certain changes can be really distracting. Things like that Zelda Triforce Heroes doge meme. It really felt forced, and would probably still be distracting to people who have never seen the meme before (if not more so).

I'm fine with the FE Fates changes, and wouldn't be surprised of the writing is better than the Japanese version (though there's no way I'll ever know if this is the case).

 

[muteki]

So stuff like the Japanese version of Lost in Thoughts All Alone not being in the game? Honestly, music is a very touchy situation at times when you get into licensing as that song did.

Not being familiar with the Fire Emblem situation I can't really say, but from a quick google search, probably?

Licensing is another issue altogether, but usually boils down to one side or the other being unreasonable.

And most of the other issues I have with localization have more to do with editorial changes than translation ones.

 

[Producer]

Arbitrarily altering a characters name, personality, dialogue etc.

 

[Crash Station]

I take a very hardline stance against removal or toning down of content even when I can understand why it would be done (getting a softer ESRB rating, wider appeal, etc). I don't care what the content being toned down is.

Altering cultural references while keeping the tone of the scene consistent is perfectly fine. Just don't half-ass it and say an onigiri is a cookie when it's CLEARLY not a fucking cookie!

 

[NormalFish]

content removal without any sort of exchange is pretty much always terrible. I don't mind games being edited to fit a locale better (the 'American Indian' -> cowboy change I don't really mind, even though I prefer the original designs), nor do I particularly mind changing names, specific conversations, whatever, to something else.

But straight up removing content is honestly just lazy. Gives the impression that the team can't be assed to actually localize content, instead just removing content they don't think will fly.

 

[fernoca]

As of recent (and by recent I guess nearly two decades) most of the changes in localization are pretty safe.

Either covering some boobs, changing age, toning down gore or adapting dialogues and jokes (or removing them).

Is not stuff I'd say too far. Unlike the already posted examples of Persona 1 were they changed characters to make them look "not asian".

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

Nope.
I have always found it beneficial to my enjoyment.
Are there some things I wish weren't removed? Sure, but they're very small things compared to the overall product.

 

[Trigonometrize.]

I don't appreciate changes when it feels like the localization team is making changes because their audience, us, isn't mature enough to realize it's fiction from a different culture or doesn't "get it" so they have to baby us. Where this applies is very case-by-case.

 

[SephLuis]

The art of localization is to translate the meaning of something while retaining most or all information possible.

In some cases, the english version will even add things completely different from the japanese version, but those additions resonate better with that public thus maintaining the purpose of the original script.

But in the case of Fire Emblem Fates and, especially, Bravely Second cutting bad routes, you aren't making any effort to translate the original or it's purpose. Altering the script in ways that aren't related at all to the original is taking a step too far.

 

[Bumbletron]

I'm not in favor of going the 100% translation route like some other people are, but certain changes can be really distracting. Things like that Zelda Triforce Heroes doge meme. It really felt forced, and would probably still be distracting to people who have never seen the meme before (if not more so).

While I've had this discussion before, I do disagree with this. When I played through, it was just fine for me and didn't feel forced. It makes sense in context, and honestly, if someone hadn't seen the meme before it would likely seem like nothing more than a character quirk.

The way I see it, when they add in small things like that, it is no different from the hidden easter eggs you find in video games all the time. Think of all of the "It's dangerous to go alone" easter eggs in games. Yes, it is something that may date a game, but it's out of the way enough to where it's less of a big deal and more of a neat little reference.

meme ridden

 

[Joseph Merrick]

NOA with every single one of their meme ridden localizations is taking it too far

can't stand that obnoxious "cute meme humour"

 

[NormalFish]

Nope.
I have always found it beneficial to my enjoyment.
Are there some things I wish weren't removed? Sure, but they're very small things compared to the overall product.

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but if you're saying that changes to content in localization has always been beneficial, you clearly didn't butt heads with Working Designs back when they used to edit games for the fuck of it.

 

[NoblesseOblige]

You could tell me tomorrow that my favorite game was missing an entire chapter due to localization and my response would just be 'whatever'. Too many other things for me to enjoy to get caught up in one thing being neutered. That's just my personality I suppose though. So in essence I wouldn't feel there is a step too far for me personally.

 

[Balb]

While I've had this discussion before, I do disagree with this. When I played through, it was just fine for me and didn't feel forced. It makes sense in context, and honestly, if someone hadn't seen the meme before it would likely seem like nothing more than a character quirk.

The way I see it, when they add in small things like that, it is no different from the hidden easter eggs you find in video games all the time. Think of all of the "It's dangerous to go alone" easter eggs in games. Yes, it is something that may date a game, but it's out of the way enough to where it's less of a big deal and more of a neat little reference.

I don't know what game(s) you're referring to specifically regarding the "It's dangerous to go alone" reference, but I wouldn't be bothered by that. Outside of it being a classic Zelda reference, it's a pretty plain line on its own so I don't think it'd be distracting to anyone.

 

[Dragonslayer_023]

I'm really starting to get annoyed with adding random references/memes to games. If the original scene wasn't meant to be funny, don't try to make it so.

Also removing anything, basically.

Nintendo's localizations have been terrible lately because they treat their audience like children and don't take the games they're working on seriously.

 

[Kudo]

Modifying or removing content is where I draw my line.
For translation I'd prefer it to be as close as possible to original, but can enjoy games that take some liberties too.

 

[TacticalHotdog]

Inserting internet memes into dialog

 

[Trigonometrize.]

You could tell me tomorrow that my favorite game was missing an entire chapter due to localization and my response would just be 'whatever'. Too many other things for me to enjoy to get caught up in one thing being neutered. That's just my personality I suppose though. So in essence I wouldn't feel there is a step too far for me personally.

It is a very principled thing for a lot of people. I don't need this weird scene or mechanic to be in the game for me to enjoy it, but a part of me is put off by the fact that a localization team thinks it's their place to just remove it or change it drastically. Not all that different from someone not really minding that, say, a season pass costs a certain amount of money, but still holding off on purchasing because they like to think they're principled and don't want to see the trend continue.

 

[A Link to the Past]

The boob slider is fine for me IMO. If XCX actually had depth to its character creator then I'd take issue (as it's unfair for women who have small or large breasts to have to stick to default), but as-is, it sticks out like a sore thumb when I can't adjust other traits besides face.

 

[MrCunningham]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but if you're saying that changes to content in localization has always been beneficial, you clearly didn't butt heads with Working Designs back when they used to edit games for the fuck of it.

Working Designs was always such a mixed bag when it came to localization. On one hand, they did great work with the quality of the voice overs and their game packaging was always of the highest quality.

On the other side, they would generally go overboard with the westernization and cram in all sorts of American centric humor. They also had a tendency of messing with the challenge levels/ balance in games.

 

[discoalucard]

*old man post*

In the 8-, 16-, and 32-bit eras you were lucky for games to get localized at all. If they did, the writing tended to be terrible, often littered with typos (Final Fantasy II, Breath of Fire, Final Fantasy Tactics). Or full of inconsistent terminology across franchises (Phantasy Star IV, Final Fantasy IX to a lesser extent). Or games where the TEXT PROGRAMMING WAS INADEQATE SO EVERYTHING WAS IN ALL CAPITAL LETTERS (the Lunar games). Bad English voice acting was a persistent problem up until relatively recently. Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy III, Snatcher, they were all exceptions to the rule.

These are things getting worth irritated at. Some minor changes in some inconsequential dialogue in a game that frankly doesn't have a story that's all that great to begin with, is not. There are a few issues in the past that were annoying - the lack of voice acted in skits in some of the Tales of games, the missing Yazuka 3 stuff - but were at least justified as cost issues, and when the choice is "getting a compromised English release" or "no English release at all", I'll take the former.

*end old man post*

Actually the inability for Steins;Gate's text to properly parse punctuation was really annoying and I'm shocked it made it through QA in that state.

 

[Scientist Supreme!]

I don't necessarily disagree with you, but if you're saying that changes to content in localization has always been beneficial, you clearly didn't butt heads with Working Designs back when they used to edit games for the fuck of it.

Well in my experiences. Im sure their are some bad ones out there.

 

[Strangelove77]

I don't think content should ever be removed. Not mini games, nudity, gore, or whatever publishers think we can't handle.
And as far as dialogue or descriptions go, I don't think anything should be changed if the audience you're catering to will notice it.
I personally like changes that give vague nods to the region you're localizing for, but don't show me a picture of an egg roll and tell me it's a hamburger or some shit like that. That's just dumb.
If it's a joke or a reference to something even the "hardcore" fans won't recognize, change that shit. While authenticity is applauded, nonsensical shit is not.