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While homelessness surges in Disneyland's shadow, Anaheim removes bus benches.

I was there a few years ago and the homeless people were harmless. Feel bad if they've nowhere to even sleep now.

Not too knowledgeable on the homeless, but in Glasgow I think they have a shelter where everyone is welcome to sleep at night, but can't stay at during the day. Can't you guys implement something like that?

Also there was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more homeless at Hollywood. Absolutely everywhere.
 

SRG01

Member
Yes and no. The problem is the most effective strategy for reducing housing costs is increasing supply versus demand. Building luxury homes doesn't immediately impact this because affordable housing comes from those properties depreciating in value. The problem is that alternatives beyond the "trickle down" approach come with drawbacks (rent controls really just squeeze the balloon, making rent affordable for some but less affordable for vastly more people; unless you've never opened up a book on urban policy it should be obvious how government housing has not been a panacea, et al.)

But this is where the problems with SF and LA come in—they had years and decades to plan accordingly, and now even if you started building crappy plywood dwellings you're still years in the hole to getting a healthy market for all income brackets.

Yeah. One of the biggest issues with this housing crisis is that we don't have a time machine to reverse these high prices; it's very hard for property to come down in value once it has gone up.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that much of the blame can be placed on SF/LA administrations, as a lack of supply and new housing starts placed undue pressure on lower-income areas. Gentrification is a symptom, not a cause.
 
I was there a few years ago and the homeless people were harmless. Feel bad if they've nowhere to even sleep now.

Not too knowledgeable on the homeless, but in Glasgow I think they have a shelter where everyone is welcome to sleep at night, but can't stay at during the day. Can't you guys implement something like that?

Also there was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more homeless at Hollywood. Absolutely everywhere.

I used to work in Hollywood. Venice had way more homeless
 
This problem is only going to grow as populations rise and rise, we begin the first waves of jobs lost to automation, and horrible and irrevocably dated city zoning laws prevent direly needed growth.
 
If anybody has driven down the 57 by angel stadium, there is an entire homeless camp there.

It's pretty sad.

yea it's getting bigger every month. I was also down in Santa ana for jury duty, and right in the middle of the plaza there was a huge section with homeless people right next ot the courthouse.
 

Kevtones

Member
Didn't we pass a housing initiative in LA recently? It was SO needed.



Also there was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more homeless at Hollywood. Absolutely everywhere.


Nah, Hollywood cleaned up into Youtube stars and promoters. It's equitably terrible but there's a lot fewer people on the streets. They've mostly migrated to the coastline and multitude of beaches California offers.
 
They aren't against new affordable housing being built... they're against shitty yuppie apartments being thrown up in neighborhoods causing increased gentrification.

It's always some development group from out of state that comes in, lobby for permits that locals can't fight against, then proceed to build overpriced condos that most can't afford. Then all the rent goes up

You notice every time people get pissed about this it isn't something that is actually benefiting the area.

You won't address the problem if you restrict luxury or gentrified housing. Artificially restricting it via regulations, a blanket ban or difficulty in building them only makes the affordability worse because whatever affordable housing you do have will, guess what, now cost what those luxury pads would have cost anyway. So instead of tons of homes at various prices, you just end up with shitty homes with expensive prices. Guess who can afford these shitty pads with $$$ price tags?

If the government isn't going to build government housing, you have to make it easier and profitable for developers to build homes. It's the only way out of this outside of tons of government built housing.
 
yea it's getting bigger every month. I was also down in Santa ana for jury duty, and right in the middle of the plaza there was a huge section with homeless people right next ot the courthouse.

Yea they were able to kick them out once government workers were scared of walking to their cars alone. They kept seeing syringes and shit everywhere. They turned the local bus depot into a homeless shelter to help with the problem.

Orange County also opened a brand new shelter in Anaheim. Vans showed up to take them there but many weren't willing, I think mainly because they weren't "clean"
drugs
And I think that's the main issue. There is assistance for them they just don't want any.
I went to an Angels game a couple of days ago and were I parked was right next to the 57. On my way home I heard the homeless camps running a generator...they fucking have enough money and resources to keep that shit running. It's then that I realized that they really don't want to leave that lifestyle.
 
Yea they were able to kick them out once government workers were scared of walking to their cars alone. They kept seeing syringes and shit everywhere. They turned the local bus depot into a homeless shelter to help with the problem.

Orange County also opened a brand new shelter in Anaheim. Vans showed up to take them there but many weren't willing, I think mainly because they weren't "clean"
drugs
And I think that's the main issue. There is assistance for them they just don't want any.
I went to an Angels game a couple of days ago and were I parked was right next to the 57. On my way home I heard the homeless camps running a generator...they fucking have enough money and resources to keep that shit running. It's then that I realized that they really don't want to leave that lifestyle.

Lol yeah people just loooooooove being homeless. It's great sleeping on the streets and dealing with the constant threats of theft, physical harm, illness and the fucking weather.

This attitude is gross. You don't know shit about the situation and you're generalizing people because they annoy you. Because they have the audacity to not have a fucking home.
 
Yeah. One of the biggest issues with this housing crisis is that we don't have a time machine to reverse these high prices; it's very hard for property to come down in value once it has gone up.

And I wholeheartedly agree with you that much of the blame can be placed on SF/LA administrations, as a lack of supply and new housing starts placed undue pressure on lower-income areas. Gentrification is a symptom, not a cause.

It's not necessarily just the administrator. It's the voters too. Nimby forces have successfully used California's direct ballot initiative to pass various laws and regulations that have artificially restricted housing. Only the last few years have the YIMBYs fought back and won. The problem is that there are tons of them to reverse and people revert back to NIMBYism if you scream 'increased traffic!', 'block views' and 'ruin the character of the neighborhood (which is now just euphemism for 'we don't like colored/poor people near us').

Would it be so fucking bad to pay more taxes in southern CA for homeless shelters and general social safety net programs?

LA just passed two props to address this. Measure JJJ and measure H. They will both raise hundreds of millions of dollars. The problem is that this may not be enough if you don't address the root cause of homelessness today: they can't afford a home because of lack of supply.
 

NewGame

Banned
ww4Eugh.jpg

Wow. WOW. Coin op bench? woooooooooow

Poor people can you please just go away and die. Clearly, the world is being engineered without you in the picture. :)
 
Lol yeah people just loooooooove being homeless. It's great sleeping on the streets and dealing with the constant threats of theft, physical harm, illness and the fucking weather.

This attitude is gross. You don't know shit about the situation and you're generalizing people because they annoy you. Because they have the audacity to not have a fucking home.
Dude there were vans asking people if they wanted to be relocated to a shelter and they said no. They turned down assistance. I'm not saying I know that lifestyle is like. I'm just saying that if you want help getting out of that situation you don't turn it down.
 
Dude there were vans asking people if they wanted to be relocated to a shelter and they said no. They turned down assistance. I'm not saying I know that lifestyle is like. I'm just saying that if you want help getting out of that situation you don't turn it down.

Are the vans giving them homes no questions asked?

Most of the time, these homeless shelters pretty much just give you space for the night and most of the time, you can't take your stuff with you, or they may not have enough space to let you keep your stuff. If I was homeless, I'd rather stay with my stuff, how little of them are left, than get them stolen on the streets.
 
Dude there were vans asking people if they wanted to be relocated to a shelter and they said no. They turned down assistance. I'm not saying I know that lifestyle is like. I'm just saying that if you want help getting out of that situation you don't turn it down.

Many shelters are not safe, you get a limited time to stay, you're not guaranteed a bed, theft is common and some people yes would rather chance being able to find an alternative than use one.

A shelter isn't getting out of the situation. You get a cot for maybe 2-3 weeks, maybe, then you're cycled out for the next bunch because we don't have enough and demand is too high so turnover rates are stupid high.
 

akira28

Member
just install some suicide booths, and problem solved.

yep, go into a homeless shelter so you can lose your sleeping spot, and whatever possessions you have worked up to that point.
 

commedieu

Banned
None of those things statistically reduce homelessness.

Contrary to popular belief. The USA does not have a homeless problem as bad as UK, Australia, or Canada even.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population

Sweet! I guess that data means that we are putting our best efforts into record breaking homelessness in Los Angeles. Oh wait, it doesnt.

Luckily we just voted on a measure to increase resources. But this is after its gone on to highest number of new homeless. And military homeless. America spends all of its money on the military and fucking over the poor. We can do a lot better, I've been to other countries. The homeless in Los Angeles is shocking. And I say that as a native. Despite any data, I know we aren't putting in an effort.

Whataboutism aside. We are supposed to be a world leader. Which, we all know is a joke, but still. It's not like we have tried. Or that we prevent it with those steps above. Those steps are a good goal worth getting to, in combination with aiding homeless. It would be better for our nation as a whole.

Not just something to shrug off. Shit is ridiculous here, considering military spending vs owing your life to a educational loan, or a health bill.
 

TheContact

Member
Disney has the money they could just build the homeless some shelters to stay in somewhere instead of being dicks and taking away the benches
 
is it so goddamn difficult to build enough proper shelters for the most unfortunate? the rich of the world are swimming in billions, there is enough money to go around surely.
 

Onaco

Member
Would it be so fucking bad to pay more taxes in southern CA for homeless shelters and general social safety net programs?

I'm pretty sure we just saw the government use whatever tax money that would go towards the homeless go towards removing public benches to stop the homeless. Government intervention isn't really doing much for them. Taxing everyone else for the government to just fuck up isn't helping anyone.
 
Do you know how many taxes Californians already pay?

Let's call Bob Iger and get Disney right on that.



Yes? Taxes in SoCal suck balls already.

Yea , I live in CA. At the very least, they can hit up higher income brackets for stuff like this. Or fix our broken property income tax that locks you into one tax rate as the years and inflation go by.

I'm pretty sure we just saw the government use whatever tax money that would go towards the homeless go towards removing public benches to stop the homeless. Government intervention isn't really doing much for them. Taxing everyone else for the government to just fuck up isn't helping anyone.

Yea , I wonder if there'll be another bubble burst.
 
I don't know the allocations for Disneyland, but Disney World does give substantial amounts to local organizations, along with a strong encouragment of volunteering around the community. I'm sure they do just as much in California, but the homeless are probably less likely to participate with the organization to get help, or some how don't qualify for their help.

The local hotels and businesses that feed off of Disney tourism probably had a sway in the decision, but it doesn't sound like Disney had much to do with it. That's one od the big differences between DL and WDW.
 
Can't say I'm surprised. Measures against homeless people can be observed all around the world. Stuff like the anti-homeless spikes in the UK (removed after outrage, iirc):

anti-homeless-spik_2934649b.jpg


In Germany, ways to make litter bins inaccessible gain traction. Stuff like this:

arschloch-muelleimer_urbanshit.jpg


Some background info for those unfamiliar with Germany:
In Germany you have to pay a bottle deposit whenever you buy drinks in glas or plastic bottles. The deposit is up to 0,25€ per bottle (this is not random and depends on the bottle type). A lot of people don't bother to return their bottle and just throw it away which apparently seems to be a good way to gather some money for homeless people and the occasional drug addict. Try waiting a few minutes at a German train station and you will spot at least one person checking the waste bins for named bottles.

This leads to two uncomfortable scenarios: A cityscape with people searching waste bins and bottle gatherers causing huge queues in front of these huge reverse vending machines where you can return bottles. Usually, at least in my city, a bottle gatherer returns a bag or two full with bottles which can be unpleasant if you're queuing to return just one bottle.
 

Shiggy

Member
In Germany, ways to make litter bins inaccessible gain traction. Stuff like this:

arschloch-muelleimer_urbanshit.jpg

Those bins aren't put up because of homeless people but because they can compress the garbage. They are installed at locations with lots of people and are supposed to prevent "overflowing" bins. They simply need to be emptied less often.
 
Those bins aren't put up because of homeless people but because they can compress the garbage. They are installed at locations with lots of people and are supposed to prevent "overflowing" bins. They simply need to be emptied less often.

Yeah, there has been a wild discussion about it. You're absolutely correct and I could have mentioned it, but the result for homeless people is the same: They can't search the bins anymore.
I guess it's not easy to find a proper solution. My home city tries out these bottle rings right now, so nobody has to actually burrow through waste to find something useful:

680x382
 

Izuna

Banned
Those protesters could have helped in more ways but nooooo, let's only give a shit when protesting occurs.

Fighting homelessness takes community and effort. The benches aren't a substitute for it. It almost feels like the common man wants these companies to solve all their problems so they don't ever feel less they should step up.
 

RS4-

Member
Yeah, there has been a wild discussion about it. You're absolutely correct and I could have mentioned it, but the result for homeless people is the same: They can't search the bins anymore.
I guess it's not easy to find a proper solution. My home city tries out these bottle rings right now, so nobody has to actually burrow through waste to find something useful:

680x382

This is a pretty cool idea. Here in Toronto though, we don't have anything in regards to taking recyclables to a depot or whatever to get some money back.

I remember the first time I saw it when I was in the US, cousin was dropping off cans and milk jugs at Meijer's for some money back.
 
That's easy to say when you don't live here. :p

I don't think punishing people who can barely make ends meet and make THEM homeless to combat homelessness is the right answer.

You really don't have any other options than overtaxing minimum wage workers or letting the homeless suffer?

Why are progressive people once again buying into awful Republican narratives?
 

Tagyhag

Member
You really don't have any other options than overtaxing minimum wage workers or letting the homeless suffer?

Why are progressive people once again buying into awful Republican narratives?

Because it takes more than just "Eh throw some money into it and it'll work itself out".

It's a community effort, and the truth is most people don't want to put in the work.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
You really don't have any other options than overtaxing minimum wage workers or letting the homeless suffer?

Why are progressive people once again buying into awful Republican narratives?

Because you can argue that the problem isn't the money being spent, but actually how it's being used, and if so then additional taxation comes with few benefits. San Francisco is spending more than $240 million a year with few observable results.
 

entremet

Member
Because you can argue that the problem isn't the money being spent, but actually how it's being used, and if so then additional taxation comes with few benefits. San Francisco is spending more than $240 million a year with few observable results.

That's because unless you solve the housing problem, it's all for naught.

Again, as mentioned before, blue cities are generally quite terrible with housing. Yes, I know the OC is mostly a red county, but the surrounding housing issues in LA county don't help.
 

NOLA_Gaffer

Banned
My wife gave a man and his son that were seated outside of Disneyland $20 earlier this year when we went.

Such a shitty situation all around.
 
I call bullshit on that. Source is a singular quoted number in a "National Alliance to end homelessness" report, which is not a government resource. Aside from small sample effects, there is just no way that a homelessness statistic of 'only 500k' on a single January night as a maxim is accurate. It also ignores the use of prison as a way to have a shelter, which is something homeless people tend to prefer over freezing to death.
And with mentioning that, that might also explain the lower number: they only count people specifically entering a shelter, who aren't using a variant of it somewhere else, like family and friends. As such, this number isn't even remotely a suitable to determine or get a handle on the concept of homelessness.
The European way of tracking tends to be by person and their registered address, with the shelter data just being a subset to compare with. It's comparing apples and oranges, on a time scale that says nothing.

But nice try to fly-by discredit otherwise proven sensible policies in other countries.
(greatest country in the world, right?)

btw, the report goes on to mention 7 million Americans were 'shacked up' with relatives, and the primary reason the shelter number is that low is due to the unexpectedly low unemployment numbers of the US. As is fairly common knowledge at this point: people don't need to be homeless when they have jobs, even if it's by paying rent to relatives.
But that also means that any change in that employment number for the worse will quickly change the homeless number.

additionally, the two targets you cherry picked to discredit these points are the only two other Western countries on the planet to get weird about very select ones, like a steady minimum wage, which the UK doesn't have. Canada is similar to that.
Everybody else in the 'west', in this case confined to Europe, is within the 0.2% number and is likely tracked in a more reliable manner over a longer time to boot.

You cannot call bullshit without bringing up a single other source. Ok, so America has 7 million people living with relatives. What are those numbers for the other countries? Then you make it seem like America's low unemployment rate is a bad thing compared to other countries.
 

TheYanger

Member
Disney has the money they could just build the homeless some shelters to stay in somewhere instead of being dicks and taking away the benches

Except disney didn't, read the fucking OP.

As I stated before, this barely even affects disney - the areas they're talking about are half a fucking mile from the park entrance, this is on the street outside. This affects Ihop, cvs, walgreens, the local shitty market down the street. This affects everyone ELSE, and the other businesses are the ones pressuring about it. Look at a map of the area if you want to see how removed Disney itself is from the problem.
 

norm9

Member
I don't believe for a second that a major business partner like Disney has no stake in removing homeless people breaking the illusion of the happiest place on earth near them and has no influence in local city council affairs.

It might not be Disney with the wrench and screwdriver, but they're a part of the removal.
 

dhlt25

Member
tbh I don't even know what is the solution to the homeless problems. Here in hawaii we have a ton of homeless camps and they are getting bigger everyday. They also produce a huge amount of trash and other problems. The city tried to clean up the camps but they just move elsewhere. At some place the homeless has gotten so bad that it make resident feel unsafe going outside. Hawaii is a very expensive place, even with tax increase and social housing, there's just no way to have enough space for all the homeless people, most of them don't have a livable job either and are usually with kids. I'm just not sure what the solution is.
 
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