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[BibiMaghoo]

So, here's the problem. It's an impossible thing to prove because while Sony has never explicitly come out and said they don't have a policy, they've also never (to my knowledge, having worked on products with intentions of cross-play and other devs with cross-play products) formally blocked a game from cross-play functionality either. And when you don't have an actual policy, you generally don't need to come out saying you don't have a policy. Like, prove Sony doesn't have a policy that Kaz eats your first born if you don't sell at least a million units as a first party game. Go ahead, PROVE IT. He's never come out and said he won't. But he's also never actually done it. So obviously you can't be sure. That's how stupid this argument is. If there was more than one example of Sony actively preventing cross-play with any other system - like the multiple examples we have with Microsoft - then maybe your (and others) skepticism would make sense. But there isn't. We have multiple examples of Microsoft blocking it (heavily implicating they have an almost zero tolerance policy - with rare exception - to cross-play outside the Xbox ecosystem) and we have multiple examples of Sony not giving a fuck.

And, the reason this has kept going in circles is because - despite all the already available evidence - certain posters absolutely refuse to believe that Sony doesn't care if you have cross-platform play with a Microsoft console. They demand that we find a specific insider example of a game that was only coming to XB/PS (with both multiplayer and cross-play intentions) and show definitive proof that Sony explicitly stated this is was Ok.

Even though we have at least 3 examples of multi-platform games that also came to PC, that have cross-play between PS and PC but not XB, and developers explicitly stating that the only reason it's not cross-play between all three systems is because of Microsoft. At this point in the conversation, you either have to be incredibly dense, intentionally trolling, or the biggest of Microsoft fanboy shills to continue to argue this point.

You misunderstand me, or I have phrased poorly. My musings as to if Sony have a policy or not, is not related to my asking that poster to confirm that they have "no policy whatsoever" in regards to playing games with Xbox. That is a definitive statement they made without boundries, and one that implies knowledge first hand. I wasn't asking them to prove they don't have one. I was asking them to confirm the statement was not speculation, which it was.

I don't have any stakes in this, I simply found it interesting that we don't actually know what Sony's position is. There is a single example given of Sony and MS having a game cross play, and obviously the position that allowed that has changed by at least one party (MS), again, I was saying that we do not know Sony's position, right now, on allowing games on PS4 to be played on servers with Xbox. Everything you and the other poster has said does not alter this at all. That is not trolling, stupidity or fanboyism. It is factual.

 

[ScatheZombie]

You misunderstand me, or I have phrased poorly. My musings as to if Sony have a policy or not, is not related to my asking that poster to confirm that they have "no policy whatsoever" in regards to playing games with Xbox. That is a definitive statement they made without boundries, and one that implies knowledge first hand. I wasn't asking them to prove they don't have one. I was asking them to confirm the statement was not speculation, which it was.

I don't have any stakes in this, I simply found it interesting that we don't actually know what Sony's position is. There is a single example given of Sony and MS having a game cross play, and obviously the position that allowed that has changed by at least one party (MS), again, I was saying that we do not know Sony's position, right now, on allowing games on PS4 to be played on servers with Xbox. Everything you and the other poster has said does not alter this at all. That is not trolling, stupidity or fanboyism. It is factual.

No, it isn't. We do know Sony's position. They've expressed it multiple times throughout multiple games.

The single example of cross-platform play between XB and PS comes from a developer that explicitly mentioned it was Microsoft who was initially hesitant and Microsoft who made an exception to their policy.

We have (at least) three other developers (FFXIV, Rocket League, Defiance) explicitly stating that cross-platform play between multiple platforms (including specifically XB and PS) was a goal, that Sony did not object, and that Microsoft did.

Sony does not have an explicit policy that blocks cross-platform play with any other platform. Microsoft does. It is factual.

But for some reason (presumably one of the three reasons I listed before) that isn't enough for you. You want proof. Of something that doesn't exist not existing. Which is impossible to provide, especially so if multiple, unrelated developers saying the exact same thing aren't enough to sate your skepticism.

 

[ephemeral garbage]

So in general, it's technological barriers (devs building their online services on a specific platform's infrastructure), and in the occasional case where a platform holder prevents it it's almost always Microsoft, and certain people get creepily aggressive when you point out the obvious. Weird, but okay.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

No, it isn't. We do know Sony's position. They've expressed it multiple times throughout multiple games.

The single example of cross-platform play between XB and PS comes from a developer that explicitly mentioned it was Microsoft who was initially hesitant and Microsoft who made an exception to their policy.

We have (at least) three other developers (FFXIV, Rocket League, Defiance) explicitly stating that cross-platform play between multiple platforms (including specifically XB and PS) was a goal, that Sony did not object, and that Microsoft did.

Sony does not have an explicit policy that blocks cross-platform play with any other platform. Microsoft does. It is factual.

But for some reason (presumably one of the three reasons I listed before) that isn't enough for you. You want proof. Of something that doesn't exist not existing. Which is impossible to provide, especially so if multiple, unrelated developers saying the exact same thing aren't enough to sate your skepticism.

You are just not understanding what I am saying. I will phrase this simply for you.

Has Sony ever commented on its rules or policy regarding cross play with Xbox games? The answer to this is no. If the answer is not no, post me a link or provide some evidence, that is nothing to do with PS/PC crossplay, because I am obviously not talking about that. A poster says they have no policy at all. I doubt this, because I have worked for a company larger than Sony that had a policy on what shoelaces were appropriate, and so I ask if the poster knows that as fact. They do not.

The arguments and position you have since presented, changes this statement how? Bin the bullshit attitude and explain what is incorrect here.

You are bringing up those examples as if they are relevant to my position here. They are not.

 

[Shenmue]

No way Sony would allow crossplay with Xbox. PC to console is a whole different beast.

What? They allowed FF14 knowing that if MS allowed it would be crossplay with them. Yoshida himself has said it is only MS keeping it from being on Xbox.

Get educated before making these kinds of false statements of fact please.

 

[ScatheZombie]

You are just not understanding what I am saying. I will phrase this simply for you.

Has Sony ever commented on its rules or policy regarding cross play with Xbox games? The answer to this is no. If the answer is not no, post me a link or provide some evidence, that is nothing to do with PS/PC crossplay, because I am obviously not talking about that. A poster says they have no policy at all. I doubt this, because I have worked for a company larger than Sony that had a policy on what shoelaces were appropriate, and so I ask if the poster knows that as fact. They do not.

The arguments and position you have since presented, changes this statement how? Bin the bullshit attitude and explain what is incorrect here.

You are bringing up those examples as if they are relevant to my position here. They are not.

This is a baited question. Because the answer is obviously "No". I said as much in my last post. Because you do not comment on a policy you don't fucking have. The comments we do have are from multiple developers (hell, I'm one of them) confirming that Sony has no policy blocking cross-play. But you're still doubling down on this ridiculous, irrelevant, confirmation-bias-laden bullshit question that we've answered multiple times like it's proof your unrelenting skepticism is verified.

You are literally arguing that all evidence to the contrary changes nothing because you don't believe it.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

This is a baited question. Because the answer is obviously "No". I said as much in my last post. Because you do not comment on a policy you don't fucking have. The comments we do have are from multiple developers (hell, I'm one of them) confirming that Sony has no policy blocking cross-play. But you're still doubling down on this ridiculous, irrelevant, confirmation-bias-laden bullshit question that we've answered multiple times like it's proof your unrelenting skepticism is verified.

You are literally arguing that all evidence to the contrary changes nothing because you don't believe it.

So you can confirm they have no rules whatsoever regarding things like contacting Xbox servers, messaging, matchmaking with them, etc? Nothing at all? You 100% know this to be true and are in a position to know this is the case? However unlikely I find that to be, if that it is so, I will take you word for it. But you have not said that. Neither has anyone else.

 

[KiraXD]

ah my days of playing FFXI together on PS2, PS3 (BC), 360, and PC how awesome was that?!

 

[Raist]

Has Sony ever commented on its rules or policy regarding cross play with Xbox games?

Send a tweet to Yoshida!

 

[sleepwalkcapsules]

Lab Zero couldn't get Sony to agree on giving them the steamworks-psn API to use on a Skullgirls crossplay between PC and PS4-Vita (maybe ps3 too).

So maybe Sony does have some restraint with crossplay.

 

[ScatheZombie]

So you can confirm they have no rules whatsoever regarding things like contacting Xbox servers, messaging, matchmaking with them, etc? Nothing at all? You 100% know this to be true and are in a position to know this is the case? However unlikely I find that to be, if that it is so, I will take you word for it. But you have not said that. Neither has anyone else.

That's because the existence of a policy blocking cross-play with other platforms and the existence of standards for chat and matchmaking are completely different things.

The entire thread is about the former. No one has claimed a lack of the latter.

I honestly didn't know that's where this was going, because I didn't even make that connection since they're completely separate things that no one was talking about.

If that's your hang up, that you thought 'no policy' meant that they allow cross-play to be the wild-west of development, then, sure. I suppose I cannot confirm, point for point, all of their standards for individual features necessary to facilitate cross-play.

But I can absolutely say that, based on everything myself and other developers have heard and worked with, Sony has no policy actively blocking or denying cross-platform play on any platform given those standards are met. Which, honestly, if you didn't meet those standards, you can't release on their platform at all, let alone have a cross-platform title, which is why that didn't even cross my mind.

 

[ScatheZombie]

Lab Zero couldn't get Sony to agree on giving them the steamworks-psn API to use on a Skullgirls crossplay between PC and PS4-Vita (maybe ps3 too).

So maybe Sony does have some restraint with crossplay.

To my knowledge, that was because they couldn't afford to do it. Cross-play on outside platforms requires outside servers/matchmaking. Skullgirls on PS3-PSV uses (as far I as I know) PSN servers/matchmaking that cannot communicate with Steam servers, or vice versa.

For example, SFV runs on Capcom servers, which allows them to facilitate connections from both PC and PSN.

EDIT: To elaborate, each ecosystem has their own matchmaking software and server hardware available to developers (PSN, XBL, Steamworks). Or you can choose to run your own system. IF you opt into using their software and hardware (which is cheaper) you get locked into their systems - this is true for all three, even Steamworks. However, if you run your own network, you can have connections from PSN or Steam (or anywhere else really) login to your server and matchmaking system and get cross-platform play. You'll notice that second part excluded one of the parties - because Microsoft actually doesn't allow this. All XBL connections must only connect to other XBL connections (either Xbox or Windows 10). Sony doesn't care as long as you are running your own servers and own matchmaking - to a minimum standard.

 

[BibiMaghoo]

That's because the existence of a policy blocking cross-play with other platforms and the existence of standards for chat and matchmaking are completely different things.

The entire thread is about the former. No one has claimed a lack of the latter.

I honestly didn't know that's where this was going, because I didn't even make that connection since they're completely separate things that no one was talking about.

If that's your hang up, that you thought 'no policy' meant that they allow cross-play to be the wild-west of development, then, sure. I suppose I cannot confirm, point for point, all of their standards for individual features necessary to facilitate cross-play.

But I can absolutely say that, based on everything myself and other developers have heard and worked with, Sony has no policy actively blocking or denying cross-platform play on any platform given those standards are met. Which, honestly, if you didn't meet those standards, you can't release on their platform at all, let alone have a cross-platform title, which is why that didn't even cross my mind.

Yes they did, that was the point of my statement asking if it was known to have nothing. Nothing at all, hence my examples now. That is my 'hangup' as you put it, to say they have nothing at all cannot be true. My original sentiment is that we do not know what those rules are, not that Sony is the bane of cross platform play. You challenged this by pointing out common knowledge, that MS blocked FF, that Sony allow PC cross play etc, hence me saying the same thing over and over again. Geez man, I don't even own a fucking Xbox haha.

 

[Cimarron]

M$ are being douchebags and not allowing the percieved value of Gold to be diminished.

Dear Microsoft,

Cross play is an added value. Thanks.


Sincerly,

Magus Cimarron

 

[Joni]

For example, SFV runs on Capcom servers, which allows them to facilitate connections from both PC and PSN.

Something on which Sony is apparantly helping, according to Capcom.

 

[TheSpoiler]

It's weird that people want some sort of line of confirmation from Sony, when numerous, real life examples float around. Some of them are available today. Even developers have come forward to talk about this shit.

But that line of confirmation, man, that's way more important and telling.

 

[sleepwalkcapsules]

You know what would be fun? A crossplay game where the console where you are playing defines your team, kinda of a "alliance and horde" situation.

The real Console Wars.

 

[FyreWulff]

You know what would be fun? A crossplay game where the console where you are playing defines your team, kinda of a "alliance and horde" situation.

The real Console Wars.

Not direct versus, but technically done with the EVE FPS on PS3. If you were on PS3, you were playing the first person shooter, but people on PC in the EVE MMO could bombard the planet you were on from their ships.

 

[RhyDin]

This discussion is so incredibly important in terms of developer and consumer rights. I think this topic is going in circles a bit now, but I'm not sure if this point has been addressed;

Keeping the online infrastructure's ecosystems platform independent does have one major benefit for gamers. When a system is inevitably jailbroken or hacked, cheating becomes widespread and destroys online multiplayer. There were so many people on GAF, for example, that regretted buying the PC version of MGS5 because hackers were so rampant. Playing online on a console this gen is a safe haven for cheaters since Xbox One and PS4 haven't been hacked and there are no commercially available cheat devices for these platforms (Dreamcast and PS2 had cheat devices and the 360 and PS3 were both hacked with custom firmware for cheats). If the Xbox One and PS4 had cross-play and one of them was hacked, it risks corrupting the online space for everyone.

With that said, console gamers are PAYING for online infrastructure access. If party chat/voice functions and PS4's game sharing are all peer-to-peer, but the competitor Steam can allow this free, with tons of digital sales and still not charge for bandwidth consumption, then console owners arguably deserve a lot more. There's tons Sony and Microsoft could do to allow cross-play and still make their consoles more appealing, including adding native keyboard and mouse support to games for starters, but in the end it's all a business decision in regards to playing it safe.

 

[Sayad]

Lab Zero couldn't get Sony to agree on giving them the steamworks-psn API to use on a Skullgirls crossplay between PC and PS4-Vita (maybe ps3 too).

So maybe Sony does have some restraint with crossplay.

From Lab Zero themselves:

Talking about crossplay, so now a crossplay between PS4 and PC version of Skullgirls can be done?

We'd have to run our own servers, write our own networking libraries, etc. to make this possible. And we don't have the money or resources to do that.

 

[Synth]

You know what would be fun? A crossplay game where the console where you are playing defines your team, kinda of a "alliance and horde" situation.

The real Console Wars.

God, that would be too real.

 

[Saikyo]

Lab Zero couldn't get Sony to agree on giving them the steamworks-psn API to use on a Skullgirls crossplay between PC and PS4-Vita (maybe ps3 too).

So maybe Sony does have some restraint with crossplay.

That was only for PS3 (the steamworks-psn API), PS4 and Vita it was because of resources like the quotes Sayad posted before.

 

[robjn3]

I think this needs bringing up again, today i have been thinking how much better it would be to just include cross platform chat but solely we would all prefer to have cross platform gaming.

I guess Sony are scared it would cut their market share somewhat somehow as microsoft seem to be on board with this idea going forward? Now with consoles due out next year that are supposedly similar performance to gaming PC's this should be a no brainer, I'd like to see what people's thoughts on this are with these recent announcements such as Scorpio and Neo.

 

[NoHeDidn't]

Yea now that MS is playing catch up they're onboard with "new" ideas like crossplay as for Sony it seems to be on a game by game basis.

 

[jdstorm]

I'm going to blame EA. if they ever said FIFA had to be cross platform both Microsoft and Sony would definitely allow it. Then he floodgates would open

 

[jesu]

BibiMaghoo was right all along!

 

[Chobel]

LOL at novablue!

So Sony also doesn't like cross-play but they're getting lucky because MS said no first?

And here I am eating crow.

Obviously Sony had no problem with cross-play last gen, except their motive was purely selfish, they wanted to lessen the effect of "All my friends have the other console". Now that PS4 possess that feature, they no longer in need for cross-play.

 

[entremet]

Microsoft.

LMAO.

Some serious crow eating for this thread.

That sad, MS could just be negotiating very skillfully, making Sony look like the bad guy. Moreover, Sony also hasn't allowed EA Access.

 

[Head.spawn]

Yea now that MS is playing catch up they're onboard with "new" ideas like crossplay as for Sony it seems to be on a game by game basis.

Apparently it didn't take long to catch up to their decades of progress. MS came up with a solution across their entire network, even integrated it into their SDK already... Sony on the other hand are still thinking game-by-game process.

 

[Sakujou]

during og xbox and 360 era, it was microsoft. the only explanation was that it was a paid service while sonys garbage psn wasnt as secure as xbl.
these dayd it shouldnt matter any more. both services are nearly on par. oh and ff11 was on 360. so you could play with ps2 and pc people, iirc.
sony never actually tried to approach microsoft while ms had plans for a secured online environment for online gaming between systems. sony never replied to this. i think there was an article about that in 2007/2008.

ms is more advanced than sony while the games for sony systems never had cross game abilities in the first place.

 

[ArtHands]

ball is in Sony's court.

 

[ThoughtsOfSpeaking]

Blatantly obvious there is a catch to this that isn't being made public.

 

[Melchiah]

Yea now that MS is playing catch up they're onboard with "new" ideas like crossplay as for Sony it seems to be on a game by game basis.

Yeah, it's telling MS didn't initiate it when the 360 was on the top.

 

[Rembrandt]

Blatantly obvious there is a catch to this that isn't being made public.

Obviously. Thanks for the insider knowledge.

 

[SlipperyFishes]

LMAO.

Some serious crow eating for this thread.

That sad, MS could just be negotiating very skillfully, making Sony look like the bad guy. Moreover, Sony also hasn't allowed EA Access.

EA Access would cut into PS Now to a degree (as an offering of games as a service) and it's less than MS trying to catch up than arrogant Sony coming back hit by bit by refusing to acknowledge positive moves for the industry

Yeah, it's telling MS didn't initiate it when the 360 was on the top.

That's because there's an entirely new leadership team in place with Nadella/Spencer compare to Ballmer/I've made a huge mistake.

Those two were responsible for a lot of shit policies including always online where the new team are doing better at making things good for users. Not perfect, but better.

 

[PendekarRajawali]

Sony.
Cross platform play will give MS advantage this gen.

 

[Heartfyre]

On one level, I thought that the reaction by the public was unfair, since Microsoft just dropped the news one day and there was some expectation that Sony had to adapt instantaneously, allowing Rocket League to be cross-platform by the week's end. Microsoft had the advantage of preparing their systems and policy in secret, giving them the opportunity to leave their competitor with their pants down, unprepared for a situation none foresaw.

At the same time, it's been months since. I'd have expected some movement or the announcement of some movement in this direction by now. Still, there's a PS Meeting in a couple of weeks...

 

[Melchiah]

EA Access would cut into PS Now to a degree (as an offering of games as a service) and it's less than MS trying to catch up than arrogant Sony coming back hit by bit by refusing to acknowledge positive moves for the industry



That's because there's an entirely new leadership team in place with Nadella/Spencer compare to Ballmer/I've made a huge mistake.

Those two were responsible for a lot of shit policies including always online where the new team are doing better at making things good for users. Not perfect, but better.

The arrogant Sony has had crossplay with PC for years though, including games like FFXIV, when MS refused to do the same.

Yet, crossplay didn't happen during the fabled Moore/Allard age either, and it makes me wonder would they have opened up to crossplay with their competitor, if the XBO was on top now.

 

[Sorcerer]

I have a feeling both companies don't want it because there is no extra money in it for them.
If MS and Sony could find a way to charge an extra crossplay fee, you sure as hell would see it come to light.
Maybe it would shed some light on how many gamers are on the MS side and how many are on the Sony side for any given title and a disparate amount on either side would be embarrassing.

 

[entremet]

EA Access would cut into PS Now to a degree (as an offering of games as a service) and it's less than MS trying to catch up than arrogant Sony coming back hit by bit by refusing to acknowledge positive moves for the industry



That's because there's an entirely new leadership team in place with Nadella/Spencer compare to Ballmer/I've made a huge mistake.

Those two were responsible for a lot of shit policies including always online where the new team are doing better at making things good for users. Not perfect, but better.

Amazon sells fire sticks than offer competing services as well. I get your reasoning, but it's flawed since Sony is limiting the options to its customers.

There is precedence here.

You had people on this forum glad Sony restricted EA Access from the the PS4. That's some warped Stockholm Syndrome there.

 

[OmegaX0]

How many balls are in Sony's court by now?

 

[gypsygib]

Support kb/m on consoles and put similarly skilled people in the same matches whether they prefer controller or kb/m and it would eliminate people getting dominated unfairly.

Surely they're are people on controller that are better than people on kb/m, even if the top ranked players would be comprised mainly of kb/m, so long as the matches effectively match people of similar skill there's no problem.

 

[Kinyou]

How many balls are in Sony's court by now?

All the balls

 

[AlucardGV]

You had people on this forum glad Sony restricted EA Access from the the PS4. That's some warped Stockholm Syndrome there.

some people like to overstimate MS too, this is from Naoki Yoshida

"Microsoft actually approached the Final Fantasy 14 team about the cross-platform opportunity," Yoshida told Polygon. "When our team reviewed the regulations that are associated with that, we realized that Microsoft may not have the experience or understanding of running an MMORPG as an online game genre just yet."

to me looks like MS likes to talk and put the ball in other people court

but hey if it comes it's good

 

[Fbh]

Sony seems to be the one not wanting to do it in some games.

Anyway. I think cross play will only be worth it once it's truly integrated .
I don't just want to play games against PC people on Rocket Legue. I want to team up with my friends on PC and play Ranked games with them.

Until they make that cross play is good to get a bigger player base but nothing more

 

[Cynar]

Amazon sells fire sticks than offer competing services as well. I get your reasoning, but it's flawed since Sony is limiting the options to its customers.

There is precedence here.

You had people on this forum glad Sony restricted EA Access from the the PS4. That's some warped Stockholm Syndrome there.

It's a bad service that encourages publishers to launch similar services which competes with the platform holders own. There's no reason that EA could just release their titles as PS+. Nice try.

As per ffxiv it still looks like Microsoft is holding things up with their strict regulations.

 

[EvB]

It's a bad service that encourages publishers to launch similar services which competes with the platform holders own.

It's bad because it creates competition?

 

[Okada]

It's a bad service

It's really not.

 

[Melchiah]

It's bad because it creates competition?

I'd rather pay for one service than many, just like I do with Netflix. As a consumer, I'd find it unwelcome situation, if movie studios started having their own streaming services. It's better to have one, which offers more.

 

[Calm Mind]

Sony has some balls.